[Proto Ubermensch]

I recently had another good friend that has dropped off the face of the earth after having met “the one”.

What used to be a reciprocal relationship of equal effort, has turned into a one-sided dynamic where I’m doing all the work of staying in touch and setting up plans (only to be rebuffed 80% of the time).

It’s quite frustrating because this is a pattern I see repeated over and over again amongst many of my friends (This particular friend did the exact same thing couple years back when we were in college).

At this point, I’m planning on putting minimal effort into maintaining the relationship, but I wonder how do you guys deal with this? Do you make a big deal out of it through a confrontation or just move on accepting it as a fact of life?

[Going strong]

(01-19-2019 02:55 PM)Proto Ubermensch Wrote:  

I recently had another good friend that has dropped off the face of the earth after having met “the one”.

What used to be a reciprocal relationship of equal effort, has turned into a one-sided dynamic where I’m doing all the work of staying in touch and setting up plans (only to be rebuffed 80% of the time).

It’s quite frustrating because this is a pattern I see repeated over and over again amongst many of my friends (This particular friend did the exact same thing couple years back when we were in college).

At this point, I’m planning on putting minimal effort into maintaining the relationship, but I wonder how do you guys deal with this? Do you make a big deal out of it through a confrontation or just move on accepting it as a fact of life?

You have a valid point. Still, I don't really like your definition of friendship: "a reciprocal relationship of equal effort". Are you a student in something cold like mathematics or physics, by any chance?

Thing is, being friend with someone does not mean both "parties" have to "put equal effort" in the "relationship". If someone is your friend, a good friend, you'll remain a friend to him even though he for some valid reason (getting married is one, alas) suddenly has less time to see you.

The only thing that should break friendship, in my opinion, is if you need some urgent help that a friend can easily provide, and he dismissively chooses not to help you... Or, if your friend suddenly tells you he plans on voting for Hillary or committing some other major crime.

[scotian]

When I was a kid other boys moms didn't want them hanging out with me because I was a "bad influence", now as an adult their GFs and wives don't want me around, such is life, find guys who don't let women make their life decisions, you're better off that way.

[MidJack]

When I was younger, I would give my friends the benefit of the doubt if they pulled away at the beginning of their first sexual relationship. That stimulation can be overwhelming the first time around, and I considered it part of accepting my friends as flawed men in the Christian sense. Usually they came back down to earth and got their priorities in order again.

I am over 40, and now I expect that my friends will put their families first. If someone my age goes "head over heels" in a romance to the complete exclusion of their other relationships, I just take it as a sign of immaturity and cut them loose.

It is a fact of life that you will have very few, if any, friendships that last over time. The key is to be continuously alert to quality people and invite them into your life. Some will reciprocate and some will not, but in the end it is much more fulfilling than having confrontations with people who aren't interested in you.

If you are computing ratios of reciprocity though, you are over-thinking it.

Edit: to remove typo

[The Beast1]

I've lost parents to new significant others who I absolutely can't stand.

People grow and change, adapt and do the same.

[Donfitz007]

The hard life of a playboy is that your friends go off and find "the one" while you're off improving yourself or chasing women. Usually, you find new and exciting hobbies during your self improvement and realize you have nobody to go with you to enjoy such hobbies.

A guy that's like a little brother to me did the same thing, he had his heart broken by a girl and improved himself to the point where he could get her back. Now they're "madly in love" while expecting a baby. To me his life is over, he stopped working out, he stopped having ambitious dreams, he stopped reading. Its sad.

[MrLemon]

It never changes. When I was sick, I lost half my friends, guys I thought were close friends. One of the sad things you learn in life.

Honestly for me, it's the kids that matter. My wife would jettison me in the face of trouble...she's just a woman, that's what they do. Parents are gone. Kids are the only ones that really stay. Sons most reliable, daughters less so.

[debeguiled]

(01-19-2019 04:32 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  

It never changes. When I was sick, I lost half my friends, guys I thought were close friends. One of the sad things you learn in life.

Honestly for me, it's the kids that matter. My wife would jettison me in the face of trouble...she's just a woman, that's what they do. Parents are gone. Kids are the only ones that really stay. Sons most reliable, daughters less so.

MrLemon? How about MrSilverLining!!

[tomtud]

I actually heard the opposite that the daughters take care of pops when he is older. I digress,,,, I guess you can't assume either. Depends on a variety of factors. Hopefully all your kids are there for you.

To hell with them if they drop you off the face of the earth when they meet a chick. If you have to use them per se for their network for work etc, or whatever, calculate your interactions with them because they aren't true friends.

How to get rid of some undesirables in your social circle. My buddies father rip, told him that all ya gotta do is loan them a small amount of money. $100 or what have you..... they will avoid you like the plague if they aren't gonna pay you back or can't for whatever reason. It's not a perfect strategy, but one of many.

Luckily, I avoided many like this in university and after especially when they were getting married. These acquaintances would hit you up with jack and Jill parties, engagement parties, stag + bachelor parties (bridal shower for the ladies only) then the wedding. It's a money grab phenomenon in the Toronto area and others. Popular in the Italian community and others. I avoided them like the plague. Then years later after speaking to buddies who knew so and so would say yeah, they are married and dint see them anymore etc. Of course, people lose contact for various reasons, just avoid going to those many money grab events because they remember you when money is needed. Afterwards, good luck if you get all of them to come to your events.

Using my sister for an example which is applicable to this theme. When she was younger she was in many bridal parties etc and spent a lot of money on all of the events for the bride. When it came time for her to marry (she married much later) she never had bridesmaids nor countless money grab events like they did. Point is, all the money you give and you think you may get some back is a pipe dream. The way it works in my part of the world is that if person A gives you $200 for a wedding gift, you reciprocate the same for him. Pick 2-3 friends who you believe will be there for you and spend your time and money wisely with them. The rest of the acquaintances, avoid those money grab events as much as possible. They probably aren't going to be there for yours in a few years.

Note: sadly weddings and such in certain cultures and communities are money grabs. When you are dealing with certain people who tend to invite people they don't know as well and have hundreds in their wedding, odds are they are looking for the cash. I'm off on a tangent. Anyhow, just be cautious with whom you hang with and when invited to these events by so called friends, don't worry if you decline. Even going to weddings with your girlfriends side. If you spend money on the gift (split it or whatever) and you break up, you won't see that money returned in a gift for you when it's your turn.

Save yourselves some money. Avoid these events from certain friends.

Note 2: the movie wedding crashers is a movie. It's make believe. I don't know anybody personally who picked up a girl at a wedding. None of my friends or even their friends have. Yes it could happen, it is possible. You do get those girls who don't go clubbing etc who may be at a wedding. Just better hope those types are at weddings that you want to go to for a dear friend or relative. Otherwise, save your money. Go out with your dear friend(s) elsewhere. You'll be with someone whose got your back.

[Going strong]

(01-19-2019 05:31 PM)tomtud Wrote:  

Point is, all the money you give and you think you may get some back is a pipe dream. The way it works in my part of the world is that if person A gives you $200 for a wedding gift, you reciprocate the same for him. Pick 2-3 friends who you believe will be there for you and spend your time and money wisely with them.

Like OP, what you describe is true, sure, but are we talking about real friendship here? Interactions carefully planned with a precise "return on investment" expected, are not friendship but, I don't know, social engineering?

My advice would be, don't give money to anybody except real friends (or possibly, close family), and if you give, don't expect monetary "reciprocity" (to give is not, as you know, to lend). Give to real friends, and God (or fate) will one day reward you, or not. In this life or the next one (or never).

Anyway, if I give money to a good friend, what I expect is not getting the money back, it's: first, that the money will indeed help him out, and secondly, that someday (if needed) and logically he'll volunteer to help me in my time of need (not necessarily by giving me money, we're not banksters).

Now, concerning the wedding invitations and expected gifts , what you could do is, beforehand, spread the word that you are in dire economic situation, "struggling and kinda broke". That way nobody expects a big gift from you, just a symbolic gift - even though you've got plenty of money in the bank

[Proto Ubermensch]

(01-19-2019 03:22 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

(01-19-2019 02:55 PM)Proto Ubermensch Wrote:  

I recently had another good friend that has dropped off the face of the earth after having met “the one”.

What used to be a reciprocal relationship of equal effort, has turned into a one-sided dynamic where I’m doing all the work of staying in touch and setting up plans (only to be rebuffed 80% of the time).

It’s quite frustrating because this is a pattern I see repeated over and over again amongst many of my friends (This particular friend did the exact same thing couple years back when we were in college).

At this point, I’m planning on putting minimal effort into maintaining the relationship, but I wonder how do you guys deal with this? Do you make a big deal out of it through a confrontation or just move on accepting it as a fact of life?

You have a valid point. Still, I don't really like your definition of friendship: "a reciprocal relationship of equal effort". Are you a student in something cold like mathematics or physics, by any chance?

Thing is, being friend with someone does not mean both "parties" have to "put equal effort" in the "relationship". If someone is your friend, a good friend, you'll remain a friend to him even though he for some valid reason (getting married is one, alas) suddenly has less time to see you.

The only thing that should break friendship, in my opinion, is if you need some urgent help that a friend can easily provide, and he dismissively chooses not to help you... Or, if your friend suddenly tells you he plans on voting for Hillary or committing some other major crime.

For me, a lack of reciprocity is about the signal it sends, it signifies that this person is a passive, not an active mode friend who expects me to do all the work. If I'm consistently the one having to reach out, make plans, engage, etc. it gets to a point where I wonder why I'm putting in all the effort when I have other friends that reciprocate.

Now granted some people go through rough patches and close off, that's alright, I understand that. But at a certain point I stop taking an active role in friendships and become passive. It's not that stop being friends with that person, I just make a conscious choice to invest my energy elsewhere.

[Scoundrel]

(01-19-2019 03:27 PM)scotian Wrote:  

When I was a kid other boys moms didn't want them hanging out with me because I was a "bad influence", now as an adult their GFs and wives don't want me around, such is life, find guys who don't let women make their life decisions, you're better off that way.

It's hilarious, awkward & sad when a guy has to let a longtime friend know he's no longer welcome to come inside the house, because the guy's wife doesn't like him.

Happens ALL THE TIME.

[RatInTheWoods]

If a woman comes between you and your dear friends, you need to choose your friends over her.

A quality woman would never give you that ultimatum

[Dirtyblueshirt]

(01-19-2019 05:31 PM)tomtud Wrote:  

the movie wedding crashers is a movie. It's make believe. I don't know anybody personally who picked up a girl at a wedding. None of my friends or even their friends have. Yes it could happen, it is possible. You do get those girls who don't go clubbing etc who may be at a wedding. Just better hope those types are at weddings that you want to go to for a dear friend or relative. Otherwise, save your money. Go out with your dear friend(s) elsewhere. You'll be with someone whose got your back.

Unfortunately, having gone to a few weddings in recent years, I have found this to be true as well. Nowadays, it seems like ALL the girls bring a date to the wedding, resulting in a lack of available women. The only exceptions to this are underage girls or those too overweight to find a date, neither of which are acceptable.

Not sure why this is, maybe it is seen as embarrassing for a woman to be single at a wedding, or maybe this is another result of women having too many options.

Anyways, you have better luck finding a single girl at a bar than going to a wedding.

[Ceasar]

This hasn't exactly happened to me, but I can kind of get it. If I do get married, I'll have real trouble not ruining it with my continuous cheating. Running around with guys going out every weekend will make it very tough not to cheat.

[lunchmoney]

(01-20-2019 12:17 AM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

If a woman comes between you and your dear friends, you need to choose your friends over her.

A quality woman would never give you that ultimatum

Every guy I know who has chosen his girl/wife over his friends ends up losing them all in the end. Every single one.

[nomadbrah]

These hoes aint loyal and unfortunately, neither are friends these days.

I've seen some ugly shit, friends of many years being dumped the second they get ill (mentally or physically), alas they become a "burden". It's one of the ugliest things I've witnessed. Friends only as long as they don't "drag you down". This kind of sociopathic attitude is found in many sociopathic self help literature.

I've also tried having a friend's girlfriend try to keep me away, while I was actually the one to help set them up and encouraged them getting together, cause I wanted the best for my friend. That's a kick in the nuts lol.

[monsquid]

In my early 30s, all my friends who have SO have disappeared off the face of the earth. Few friends that I have helped out significantly at the drop of a hat have failed to respond to queries for advice or respond way too late.

For example I was evaluating job offers and needed my friend's perspective. He has experience in that sector but he didn't respond at all. I emailed and txted, so there was no way he "wouldn't have seen it." Few months later he asks me how the job offer went, and I'm speechless. I wanted to confront him but just let it pass. Then he asks me to help review his grad school application essays. I said I would take a look but he keeps texting me everyday demanding the status. I gave him a half ass response. It's not a one way street.

[Subtext]

(01-20-2019 08:26 AM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

These hoes aint loyal and unfortunately, neither are friends these days.

I've seen some ugly shit, friends of many years being dumped the second they get ill (mentally or physically), alas they become a "burden". It's one of the ugliest things I've witnessed. Friends only as long as they don't "drag you down". This kind of sociopathic attitude is found in many sociopathic self help literature.

I've also tried having a friend's girlfriend try to keep me away, while I was actually the one to help set them up and encouraged them getting together, cause I wanted the best for my friend. That's a kick in the nuts lol.

Is the phrase "drag you down" being used in reference to something superficial, such as simply not being able to paint the town red on a particular night, maybe because of sickness? In that case, you might have a (slightly overstated) point.

But there's nothing particularly wrong with choosing not to associate with someone because they don't actually make your life better. There are unpleasant and negative people out there, regardless of their own intentions, or perceptions of self. You can't make yourself better if you're surrounded by people who aren't interested in a similar journey.

But, speaking of sociopaths, look who they're after now:

https://www.themarysue.com/disney-mary-p...sociopath/

[BlastbeatCasanova]

Yeah, part of life I suppose. One of my vest friends is married, going back to school, and just had a kid, so it would be pretty unfair to expect the level of reciprocity that I, someone who has zero responsibilities at the moment can give.

I’ve found that game-unaware and/or guys who don’t get a lot of pussy are the ones to drop off the hardest

[monsquid]

(01-20-2019 10:24 PM)BlastbeatCasanova Wrote:  

Yeah, part of life I suppose. One of my vest friends is married, going back to school, and just had a kid, so it would be pretty unfair to expect the level of reciprocity that I, someone who has zero responsibilities at the moment can give.

I’ve found that game-unaware and/or guys who don’t get a lot of pussy are the ones to drop off the hardest

All my friends who were pussy starved dropped off the hardest when they got into LTR or marriage. They're good dudes but definitely dropped off hard. Almost as if they cease to exist outside of home and work. Crazy.

[nomadbrah]

(01-20-2019 07:45 PM)Subtext Wrote:  

You can't make yourself better if you're surrounded by people who aren't interested in a similar journey.

"Similar journey", "make yourself better".

Let's see what kind of journey you will be on, when you're divorce raped, develop an opioid addiction after surgery, get a psychotic episode after military service or come down with cancer.

I'm sure at that point, you'll just quietly slip into the shadows as to not hold back your friends from their journey of bettering themselves.

Here's the truth, you're one unforeseen event away from your life turning to shit. People are not just losers who "don't get it" or "won't work hard enough". By and large, people make the best with the cards they were dealt. If you want to think you're special and belonging to a special group of high achieving "take charge" people then go ahead. Pride comes before the fall.

[Ski pro]

I’ve come to accept this as part of life. Sometimes those buddies come back, sometimes they don’t.

I had one who recently reconnected after 7 years, he realized he’d lost all of his friends. We just picked up where we left off.

[monsquid]

(01-21-2019 05:59 AM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

(01-20-2019 07:45 PM)Subtext Wrote:  

You can't make yourself better if you're surrounded by people who aren't interested in a similar journey.

"Similar journey", "make yourself better".

Let's see what kind of journey you will be on, when you're divorce raped, develop an opioid addiction after surgery, get a psychotic episode after military service or come down with cancer.

I'm sure at that point, you'll just quietly slip into the shadows as to not hold back your friends from their journey of bettering themselves.

Here's the truth, you're one unforeseen event away from your life turning to shit. People are not just losers who "don't get it" or "won't work hard enough". By and large, people make the best with the cards they were dealt. If you want to think you're special and belonging to a special group of high achieving "take charge" people then go ahead. Pride comes before the fall.

Damn. That's some blackpill reality shit right there. While I agree I think that kind of life outlook will become a self fulfilling prophecy.

As cliche as it is I think accepting and loving your friends despite their actions seems to be the healthiest approach. Yes that means accepting them back even after years of lost contact or bad blood. Some people deserve second chances, I know I do from time to time.

[yankeetravels]

This is an interesting topic. I'm probably the youngest guy commenting in here and I'm single but I remember back in college when I got with my first girlfriend and started spending a lot of time with her. I didn't lose all my guy friends, but it definitely made me realize who my strongest friendships were with. I really only made time for guys I considered my closest friends, and my more casual friends with less in common started falling off. When we broke up I tried to recover some of those, but things weren't really the same.

I actually know a couple guys in their mid-20's that are either already married or getting married. As far as I see, there doesn't seem to be major issues with any of them, though none have kids. I think kids are when the real separation begins. If you're a 30's bachelor and your peers start having kids, then I feel like that might be more isolating. My cousins that have kids seem to have less time for their friends now than when they were unattached. Maybe it's a biased perspective, but I'm doing a bro trip with a friend who is married and another one I probably see more since he got involved with his girlfriend than when he wasn't with her.

I'm not saying the above is the end all truth, more that there are exceptions to the rules mentioned in earlier posts.