[roberto]

(01-12-2019 12:45 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 04:16 PM)Matsufubu Wrote:  

...
UK here so AR-15s and the like are just not going to happen. However, an air rifle will enable you to kill rabbits and birds for food.
...

In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king.

The easiest and most effective self defense gun you're going to be able to acquire legally in the UK is a 12 gauge shotgun. There are several hobby sports that allow you to get a permit to acquire such a gun and from what I understand there's minimal oversight about to what degree you actually participate in those sports.

Whilst I agree with Leonard (and own a 12-bore) I would say in the defense of the air rifle-

-They are currently easy and cheap to obtain
-More than capable of killing small game
-Silencers in the UK are legal and effective
-Pellets are cheap and a tin of 500 takes up very little space (MAJOR plus point)
-Easy to show others how to use (and as said cheap enough to stockpile a few beforehand)
-Still a much better 'fuck off and leave me alone' symbol than a kitchen knife.
-Hypothetically speaking, one could also store parts to enable your air rifle to shoot above the UK legal limit. Spring rifles would be king in a SHTF scenario, so choose a big air rifle with a downgraded spring for the UK market (HW80 for example) and buy a normal mainspring separately (legal to own, just not legal to put in the rifle).

[dharma initiative]

I actually see quite often men I respect, prepping. I wish there were like some sort of interchange that happened, but it's always the same.

I walk to pantry, looking for beer, or potato chips, and the damn thing is full of prepper gear. And then, the poor dude explains himself even though i'm sympathetic.

[H1N1]

(01-10-2019 10:50 AM)Turnus Wrote:  

I've been thinking about putting together a "bug out bag" or "survival bag" but haven't done it yet. Went down the rabbit hole a few months ago watching YouTube videos of guys preparing backpacks of bags that they could grab at a moments notice. They'd keep one in their car, one in their office and one at home.

(01-12-2019 03:53 AM)roberto Wrote:  

(01-12-2019 12:45 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 04:16 PM)Matsufubu Wrote:  

...
UK here so AR-15s and the like are just not going to happen. However, an air rifle will enable you to kill rabbits and birds for food.
...

In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king.

The easiest and most effective self defense gun you're going to be able to acquire legally in the UK is a 12 gauge shotgun. There are several hobby sports that allow you to get a permit to acquire such a gun and from what I understand there's minimal oversight about to what degree you actually participate in those sports.

Whilst I agree with Leonard (and own a 12-bore) I would say in the defense of the air rifle-

-They are currently easy and cheap to obtain
-More than capable of killing small game
-Silencers in the UK are legal and effective
-Pellets are cheap and a tin of 500 takes up very little space (MAJOR plus point)
-Easy to show others how to use (and as said cheap enough to stockpile a few beforehand)
-Still a much better 'fuck off and leave me alone' symbol than a kitchen knife.
-Hypothetically speaking, one could also store parts to enable your air rifle to shoot above the UK legal limit. Spring rifles would be king in a SHTF scenario, so choose a big air rifle with a downgraded spring for the UK market (HW80 for example) and buy a normal mainspring separately (legal to own, just not legal to put in the rifle).

[Matsufubu]

Oh, and I recommend watching Bear Grylls: Born Survivor.

Watch how he survives.

Then do the exact opposite.

If they'd called it 'Bear Grylls: How to end up lying at the bottom of a ravine with broken legs, riddled with intestinal parasites, pleading with God to bring your suffering to an end' it would have at least been honest. Bit wordy, though.

Oh, and on the gun issue I wasn't advocating for an air rifle as a like-for-like replacement for an AR-15, I was just recommending it for hunting small game.

[Richard Turpin]

Yeah, air weapons would be a great idea for birds and rabbits with the pellets being so cheap and the guns easy to maintain and work. They'd frighten people away alright, especially here in the UK where we aren't comfortable around them, outside of farmers.

In the UK we can still legally own crossbows by the way. We just can't hunt with them or carry them around. You can own broad head arrows as well, but again you can't hunt with them.

[Foolsgo1d]

On the a lighter note the UK government is going to pass the age requirement for porn this April. You need a loicense for that pornography my lad! I wonder what would happen to the incel population.

[Matsufubu]

(01-12-2019 09:57 AM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

On the a lighter note the UK government is going to pass the age requirement for porn this April. You need a loicense for that pornography my lad! I wonder what would happen to the incel population.

I assume they'll all take up their crossbows and air rifles and commit the most ineffective school shootings ever.

[ChicagoFire]

Kind of on topic/off topic:

http://businessandbullets.com/17-tips-ge...f-defense/

One of the pointers is asking yourself the question whether you're able to shoot somebody to save your own life.

Extends to home defense and walking down the street but can very well be a building block to SHTF scenario. Anybody want to add their 2c about the link I posted? Last thing I want is to link to some guy who spews hot air.

[bigolteddies]

(01-10-2019 03:12 PM)Dr. Chim Ritchalds Wrote:  

(01-10-2019 01:05 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  

I'd suggest start by reading this book:




He also has a rather lengthy interview on Youtube with Infowars.

[video=yout ube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paJErIIMia8[/video]

Lol. Strategic Relocation by Skousen is the biggest piece of 'get you killed fast' government disinformation that you could possibly buy into. The nuclear data is tremendously out of date - and is relatively unimportant now, anyhow. No one is going to nuke the breadbasket they need, beyond a couple of major cities. Places he rates high, like Utah and Colorado, are either impossible to survive in without petroleum heat, or high guarded by survivalists who are already entrenched there anyhow.

Combined with known high-focus government awareness of 'where the good spots are', and the fact that NDAA made it possible to initiate martial law to simply take all that you've 'stored and prepared' for, you are in effect, the greatest storehouse the government could ever want FEMA to have, without them having to pay for it. There will be a LOT of dead pillaged fools in some beautiful, rugged, pristine areas, if any collapse comes - and people like Skousen can take a lot of credit for it, too.

If you want to survive, go where they do NOT expect survival to be easy. Not to a place where your Grizzly Adams and Jeremiah Johnson fantasies will never come to light. Most potential invaders also know what you profess - and they actually train for 'asset reallocation', just like our troops do. If only DHS and FEMA would come clean, and tell you the 'inside plans' of what they already plan to do, in event of a catastrophe, you'd be terrified. There's a reason why they request quotes on bodybags by the millions, but you don't see anything on water storage, purification, cots, food stores, etc. Because you ARE their stockpile.

Look at what they AREN'T buying, then ask 'why'? There's a reason Denver International was built, there's a reason why Colorado is the 'new D.C.' in the works, and there's a reason why they predominantly put economic and administrative functions in Kansas City - because they KNOW you are going to Colorado - and they want to be in the middle of it to still lead, once it collapses.

What's your plan then where do you think the best places to be are?

[Dr. Chim Ritchalds]

(01-12-2019 10:32 PM)bigolteddies Wrote:  

What's your plan then where do you think the best places to be are?

The best plans and places are the best precisely because people don't reveal them on public message boards.

Don't worry about other people's plans or where they are. What's YOUR plan? Can you survive where YOU are? Do you have at least 30 days worth of food and water? Do you have a store of any medications you need? Have you begun to put together ANY kind of supply stores/B.O.B./anything at all for disaster and emergency preparedness?

If not, start there and worry about the grand survival plans later. You'll be ahead of 99% of people, which could be all you need in the end.

[Leonard D Neubache]

(01-12-2019 09:38 PM)ChicagoFire Wrote:  

Kind of on topic/off topic:

http://businessandbullets.com/17-tips-ge...f-defense/

One of the pointers is asking yourself the question whether you're able to shoot somebody to save your own life.

Extends to home defense and walking down the street but can very well be a building block to SHTF scenario. Anybody want to add their 2c about the link I posted? Last thing I want is to link to some guy who spews hot air.

If you've never killed anything before, much less a human, go out and buy a small food animal such as a chicken or preferably something cuter like a rabbit.

Watch some videos about how to process the animal and then then kill the thing, cleanly hopefully. Whether you eat it or not is of secondary concern. Some people are born not to care about pulling a trigger on a living creature (or lopping its head off with a cleaver). For everyone else it's a matter of training to dull that empathetic response. Train with humanoid targets and as cheesy as it sounds, condition yourself to be without hesitation in killing things.

It's important to note that this process is not without its drawbacks. It costs you a form of internal human innocence. Until modern times it would be par for the course but if you hesitate to pop a cute little bunny in the brain at point blank range then the act of actually doing it will cost you a small piece of yourself (most of your ancestors lost it by the time they were 10). Not being familiar with what it's like to kill a person I can only speculate that there's a similar or possibly linked dynamic in play. I very much doubt a 40 year old accountant would bring himself to shoot a hostile human as easily as a 40 year old veterinarian who's had to put down a few hundred family pets over the course of his career.

Alternately you could look into how the military conditions people to overcome the hesitation to kill an enemy. You might be able to find some benefit there.

Regarding the article itself it's not incorrect but it's a pretty thin layer to paint over a very broad subject. Anyone who's found a reason to care about this stuff should avoid reading 100 broad-brush articles from different authors saying the same basic stuff and instead find one good author or Youtuber and get into everything they offer in detail.

And lastly, because this rarely seems to pop up in these self/home defense articles, if you're concerned about home invasions then fortify your entry points for God's sake. If some scumbags try to get in then you'll be much happier for listening to them pound the door impotently while you call the cops rather than having your life turned upsidown as the coroner wheels two minority corpses out of your home which has now become a possible crime scene.

Whatever you do regarding ALL of the stuff we're going to cover in this thread, DO NOT BUILD A FANTASY IN YOUR HEAD ABOUT BEING A COMIC BOOK HERO.

Do not invite conflict thinking you can simply stack the deck in your favor and win. The moment shooting starts then everyone is a loser. The only question at that point is just how much you're going to lose.

[Polniy_Sostav]

The best is to retreat in some "bunker" below your home in a little village of 30 people or so ( 5-6 families at most , having all of them worked together).
It is a bit like in Stargate SG1 where there is a population having a fake life on surface but living underground.

While it is almost impossible to build a solid bunker without help of professionals and spending big money , it has to start with underground. The most valuable is to have a source of water , big stocks of water. I would also have big stocks of toilet paper , cleaning stuff & batteries.

A few books can help too.

As I do not owe any flat/house , I have bought a couple of mechanical mag-lites (no batterie) , basic walkie-talkie. Interestingly , my kids know where the mag lites are (one per room) and as we regularly have powercuts , they have shifted from "I am crying and scared) to "Let me get the light and use it myself". We then meet in the parents room.Particularly proud of the 3 years old who didn't panic.

I think getting ready for nuclear doomsday is just like buying gold and silver. You can do it seriously and at high scale only when you re already rich.
Nevertheless we must all have some sort of plan if things happen fast.

[Leonard D Neubache]

(01-12-2019 10:32 PM)bigolteddies Wrote:  

...
What's your plan then where do you think the best places to be are?

The best retreat location will have as many of the following factors as possible.

1) Inside the town boundaries of a functional farming, fishing, mining or milling community that is not completely dead or on welfare.
2) At an increased elevation to any cities in the area, one of which you obviously work and live at.
3) Preferably above the snow line for short periods of the year.
4) Has access to a river or gravity-fed dam-based water source that is unlikely to be seriously contaminated by anyone upstream.
5) If not a farming or fishing village it needs to have a minimal population and good prospects for hunting.
6) Town/area population large enough to mount a serious resistance to outsiders but small enough not to have lost a sense of community.
7) Be within realistic hiking distance from the city you live in.
8) Either be populated by co-ethnics and/or people who can be convinced to recognize and welcome you.
9) Has several defensible geographical bottlenecks between itself and serious population centers.
10) Has several towns with similar qualities between itself and any serious population centers to acts as buffers for refugee drift.

[sterling_archer]

Regarding airguns, what about these ones? Semi automatic PCP airgun with pump and pellets as your main weapon.

https://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Hatsan_Bu.../4334#8355

[Leonard D Neubache]

(01-13-2019 02:31 AM)sterling_archer Wrote:  

Regarding airguns, what about these ones? Semi automatic PCP airgun with pump and pellets as your main weapon.

https://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Hatsan_Bu.../4334#8355

These things simply do not do enough damage to discourage a determined attacker.

What you're looking at there when placed on the scale above would be the .22PCP, which at a tiny 10 meters (functionally muzzle velocity) is delivering just over 55 foot/pounds of energy to the target.

The .45 on the same scale is delivering over twice that from a rifle barrel and I highlight that to put it in context because a traditional gunpowder-driven .45 pistol with it's tiny pistol barrel is delivering typically between 400 to 500 foot/pounds of energy to the target at the same range.

A common response is "just shoot them a lot and it racks up" but it's not true. You have to get to something vital in the body or at least cause hydrostatic shock or you're just wasting your time.

A gun like this is a good "get the fuck off of my driveway" gun to force poorly motivated aggressors to piss off but if they decide to bum-rush you then all you're going to do is force them to pick tiny slugs out of their skin long after they beat you to death and take your stuff.

Air rifles have their place but you really have to focus on the foot/pounds of energy delivered to the target. In that perspective you can see that it takes a big ol' 50 caliber PCP air rifle like this one just to compete with a generic .45 pistol, and that rifle only has a 3 round capacity (not sure about total shots until you have to recharge the cylinder).

Rapid fire PCP based air guns also have to have their tanks recharged, so consider how you're going to achieve that in a post-abundance environment.

Much of the advice on the internet is muddied because understandably most people building a brand are hesitant to talk about person v person scenarios where lethal force is concerned, and the ones speaking legitimately about those issues are almost entirely based in the US where the question of "semi-auto air gun or 12 gauge break action?" would be considered a really funny joke.

Always remember. *In most cases the punishment a slug is going to deliver to its target is proportional to the punishment the gun gave your shoulder when you fired it.

*Overpenetration, weight of gun, yada yada yada.

[eradicator]

I’m more worried about the next ice age. If it gets cold and never warms up, then what’s your plan? I guess people in Chicago are not going to change much. I’m in New York and freaking hate the winters, but I’d survive. Eventually we would have no fresh veggies and no fruits because nothing would grow in freezing temperatures. It’ may not happen for a thousand years but could happen very soon where it gets cold and never warms up.

[sterling_archer]

(01-13-2019 04:34 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Air rifles have their place but you really have to focus on the foot/pounds of energy delivered to the target. In that perspective you can see that it takes a big ol' 50 caliber PCP air rifle like this one just to compete with a generic .45 pistol, and that rifle only has a 3 round capacity (not sure about total shots until you have to recharge the cylinder).

Actually this is the closest thing we have to historical Windbüchse:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girandoni_air_rifle

This was a deadly weapon, yeah less "effective" and more complicated than a musket, but better than nothing. I would like to have this .50 cal airgun because I know I don't need any permit for this.

[Foolsgo1d]

(01-12-2019 03:31 PM)Matsufubu Wrote:  

(01-12-2019 09:57 AM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

On the a lighter note the UK government is going to pass the age requirement for porn this April. You need a loicense for that pornography my lad! I wonder what would happen to the incel population.

I assume they'll all take up their crossbows and air rifles and commit the most ineffective school shootings ever.

Or perhaps they may join some radical cause to further push the envelope we're seeing across many facets of society. A society cannot tolerate legions of young men who are angry, frutstrated and boxed in.

[Oberrheiner]

(01-11-2019 09:49 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Make a very specific list of the things you absolutely need electricity for and write the rest off as a needless luxury. You may already have solar Christmas lights tucked away somewhere. These are good for providing a low level of light at night to navigate the house with. Tacky but effective. Beyond that get a couple of solar chargers with USBout capacity. You can get rechargeable torches that will charge through USB and your phones will be covered. We may mock smartphones as modern crap but with the right apps they can be extremely useful survival tools, even if there's no signal.

Any idea on what would make sense here ?
I can't seem to find anything between cheap chinese shit for millenials and full-on off-the-grid solar panel installations for 10 grand

What do you mean with christmas lights, wax candles or LED garlands ?

[BBinger]

(01-13-2019 01:17 AM)Polniy_Sostav Wrote:  

The best is to retreat in some "bunker" below your home in a little village of 30 people or so ( 5-6 families at most , having all of them worked together).
It is a bit like in Stargate SG1 where there is a population having a fake life on surface but living underground.

While it is almost impossible to build a solid bunker without help of professionals and spending big money , it has to start with underground. The most valuable is to have a source of water , big stocks of water. I would also have big stocks of toilet paper , cleaning stuff & batteries.

A few books can help too.

As I do not owe any flat/house , I have bought a couple of mechanical mag-lites (no batterie) , basic walkie-talkie. Interestingly , my kids know where the mag lites are (one per room) and as we regularly have powercuts , they have shifted from "I am crying and scared) to "Let me get the light and use it myself". We then meet in the parents room.Particularly proud of the 3 years old who didn't panic.

I think getting ready for nuclear doomsday is just like buying gold and silver. You can do it seriously and at high scale only when you re already rich.
Nevertheless we must all have some sort of plan if things happen fast.

If you are worried about the nuclear scenario it may be wise to consider the price it would cost to have a bunker built versus the price of a penthouse apartment near the beach in one of the more stable southern hemisphere countries. Argentina, Brasil, Chile, Peru, and Uruguay should all be well out of the way of any nuclear bombardments or their fallout.

Penthouses in Pocitos, Montevideo advertise anywhere from 285,000 USD to just under 500,000 USD at the top. In the next barrio over there's some very expensive outliers near the Yacht club that hit seven figures, and if you get further from nice parts of the city price goes down rapidly. Compare the purchase price to the price to construct a long term bunker as well as the quality of life difference between bunkering up and a long distance bugout.

For the record I rent a new construction studio for ~500 USD a month. The ask price for similar units at sale is ~100k USD. Given a little bit of math, I suspect if you negotiate at all 20-40 percent of the advertised price of real estate here is possible. Though I moved here for different reasons, a side effect is I ended up pre-emptively bugging out of the way of nuclear exchanges.

(01-13-2019 12:46 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

And lastly, because this rarely seems to pop up in these self/home defense articles, if you're concerned about home invasions then fortify your entry points for God's sake. If some scumbags try to get in then you'll be much happier for listening to them pound the door impotently while you call the cops rather than having your life turned upsidown as the coroner wheels two minority corpses out of your home which has now become a possible crime scene.

It is amazing the difference in home security down here versus in old country. Lots of very classy welded metal fencing that's sharp on top, if someone tries climbing they are probably impaling themself. There's also homes with the tops of their fences electrified, but it looks kinda dorky and suspect it's defeatable. Ground level and most second floor potential points of egress have bars. The standard material for building exterior walls is concrete. They do this even with a low baseline rates of crime and... home invasions are very uncommon. Walls work.

[bigolteddies]

(01-13-2019 01:35 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

(01-12-2019 10:32 PM)bigolteddies Wrote:  

...
What's your plan then where do you think the best places to be are?

The best retreat location will have as many of the following factors as possible.

1) Inside the town boundaries of a functional farming, fishing, mining or milling community that is not completely dead or on welfare.
2) At an increased elevation to any cities in the area, one of which you obviously work and live at.
3) Preferably above the snow line for short periods of the year.
4) Has access to a river or gravity-fed dam-based water source that is unlikely to be seriously contaminated by anyone upstream.
5) If not a farming or fishing village it needs to have a minimal population and good prospects for hunting.
6) Town/area population large enough to mount a serious resistance to outsiders but small enough not to have lost a sense of community.
7) Be within realistic hiking distance from the city you live in.
8) Either be populated by co-ethnics and/or people who can be convinced to recognize and welcome you.
9) Has several defensible geographical bottlenecks between itself and serious population centers.
10) Has several towns with similar qualities between itself and any serious population centers to acts as buffers for refugee drift.

Thank you, I actually think Florida is pretty ideal (not South Florida obviously)

[debeguiled]

(01-13-2019 12:46 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

If you've never killed anything before, much less a human, go out and buy a small food animal such as a chicken or preferably something cuter like a rabbit.

Watch some videos about how to process the animal and then then kill the thing, cleanly hopefully. Whether you eat it or not is of secondary concern. Some people are born not to care about pulling a trigger on a living creature (or lopping its head off with a cleaver). For everyone else it's a matter of training to dull that empathetic response.

Can't do it.

When the end comes, I will be one of the first to die.

[Cattle Rustler]

Preppers are the biggest armchair cucked quarterbacks. Also, they're an easy demographic to sell products to online. Hint hint to all my fellow ecom biz owners. Easy to sell to emotional > logical people, emotional men are no different than women.

[tomzestatlu]

The best idea is still bring some weapons and friends with some more weapons.

Living primitive life somewhere in forests is nice idea and honestly I kind of like this idea, but those who serious about this are already living such lifestyle.
I am not saying, that you should avoid preparing yourself in survival. I take it as automatical thing for a man.

Around 25 years ago there was a conflict in Yugoslavia. Study it and learn. When the shit hits the fan, it´s very likely to happen that another ethnicity will try to erase you from the planet.

[sterling_archer]

I found this video to be highly relevant. He has a good point. Some of these preppers will try to become lords of the new order and try to rule those who are not able to defend themselves.