Hello gentlemen, I am new to the forum but a long-time reader of Roosh. One thing I like about Roosh is that the Twitter feed on his site is usually interesting, and I was inspired to register and comment on this thread owing to that. I am American, but my parents are Swedish immigrants and almost all of my extended family is Swedish (some Germans). I grew up speaking Swedish at home, and I have visited Sweden at least once a year for over twenty years now (I am twenty-six). I have also traveled widely (though not like some of you), so I feel comfortable discussing this subject.
I would echo Vicious' comments quite a bit, though Morgan also has a point. While feminism has radically transformed all Western societies, in the United States feminism is not taken seriously as an ideology in America. Men who claim to be feminists are scorned and despised in America, and women who claim to be feminists are reviled as unattractive and annoying. In Sweden it is very different. Not only is there a feminist political party, but despite it attracting far less support than the ethnic nationalist party it received widespread media coverage. People will openly admit to supporting feminism, and the media is saturated with feminist messages. Television news in Sweden often exposes "scandals" of corporations having relatively few female executives, and any expressions of doubt about sex equality are treated roughly the way racist sentiments in the United States are. Swedish television and film are significantly more feminist than their American counterparts, to the extent that women in Swedish movies are portrayed as strong, independent, and responsible while men are portrayed as vicious, incompetent drunks--worse than the America equivalent of wise sitcom women and boorish clown men. A good film to watch to see this, and to understand Swedish culture in general, is Så som i himmelen (As It Is in Heaven), which despite its anti-male message (aside from the male protagonist) is quite a good film.
It is very true that Scandinavia is significantly more androgynous than the USA--or any other societies. To some degree this is probably not new. In Tacitus' writings on Germania, and remember that in those times Germanics were all Norse pagans, he remarked that their sex relations were far more egalitarian than either Greeks or Romans. Germanic society was also much more individualist than the Greco-Roman world. In Viking societies women had far more rights and authority than in Christendom, including even the right to divorce. As the culture was seafaring, men could be away for months (or years) at a time leaving women to tend to whatever the family had. I suspect that androgyny even has a genetic basis, given that surviving in Northern Europe in preindustrial times was not easy and required labor and leadership from all.
Scandinavian women do not expect men to pick up the chick, hold open the door, carry their luggage, or any of the other chivalrous things that are taken for granted in the US and Canada. To some extent this is true of all Northern European societies (I can't speak for the Mediterranean countries), but it is most developed in Scandinavia. Similarly, men will actually do household chores in Scandinavian families to a much greater extent than American men. This is accepted by most and you do not hear grousing, though some traditionalism exists. For instance, when I was at my grandmother's apartment with one of my cousins and his wife, his wife bussed the table while we spent quality time with our grandmother. As many of you know, American women would be bitchy about this.
I am active in the Chicago area Swedish-American Chamber of Commerce, and Swedish women accustomed to American society eventually grow to like American chivalry. However, they are horrified by the behavior of American women. The pettiness, bitchiness, and callous behavior of American women offends them. One behavior they especially loathe is how American girls constantly stab each other in the back. While this of course exists in Sweden as it exists in all women, it is simply much less common there and will result in ostracization. A lot of traditional Swedish and Norwegian literature deals with the phenomenon of evil women and how they must be scorned by the community.
The biggest, most jarring exception to this is that labor markets in Scandinavia, especially Sweden and Norway, are highly segregated by gender. Men predominantly work in the private sector, and women primarily work in the public sector--though naturally there is overlap. Humorously, the Swedish terms for these translate to "nourishing life" and "taking life", though these are somewhat archaic. Most of the work done by women in the public sector is bullshit--every chick you meet seems to be a social worker or some sort of nonsense expert on gender equality. It is effectively an enormous Social Democratic wealth transfer program which was engineered to create gender quality and to monetize household sectors of the economy in order to raise the output of the service sector.
As to why men aren't fighting this to the same degree, Vicious does have a point that things aren't so bad. There is more to it than this. Anglo-Saxon, and especially American, cultures are not only individualistic, but highly combative and competitive. Scandinavian societies are very homogeneous, harmonious, and consensus driven--Sweden above all to the point where Swedes are sometimes called Europe's Japanese. There was significant class conflict in the early 20th century was has left a bitter taste in the public discourse today. Dissent and dissidence are highly uncommon. In America you have many dissident movements, some quite massive, because this is in line with our culture. Not just men's rights, but you can find white nationalist and other racialist movements, the alt right, libertarianism, evangelical Christians, "anti-globalization" activists, and the general "rugged individualist" impulse to fight everyone who won't leave you alone. Aside from ethnic nationalism, as is increasingly common in all European countries, the only dissidence in Sweden is the far left, which is hardly dissidence at all and tacitly endorsed by the political mainstream.
I would echo Vicious' comments quite a bit, though Morgan also has a point. While feminism has radically transformed all Western societies, in the United States feminism is not taken seriously as an ideology in America. Men who claim to be feminists are scorned and despised in America, and women who claim to be feminists are reviled as unattractive and annoying. In Sweden it is very different. Not only is there a feminist political party, but despite it attracting far less support than the ethnic nationalist party it received widespread media coverage. People will openly admit to supporting feminism, and the media is saturated with feminist messages. Television news in Sweden often exposes "scandals" of corporations having relatively few female executives, and any expressions of doubt about sex equality are treated roughly the way racist sentiments in the United States are. Swedish television and film are significantly more feminist than their American counterparts, to the extent that women in Swedish movies are portrayed as strong, independent, and responsible while men are portrayed as vicious, incompetent drunks--worse than the America equivalent of wise sitcom women and boorish clown men. A good film to watch to see this, and to understand Swedish culture in general, is Så som i himmelen (As It Is in Heaven), which despite its anti-male message (aside from the male protagonist) is quite a good film.
It is very true that Scandinavia is significantly more androgynous than the USA--or any other societies. To some degree this is probably not new. In Tacitus' writings on Germania, and remember that in those times Germanics were all Norse pagans, he remarked that their sex relations were far more egalitarian than either Greeks or Romans. Germanic society was also much more individualist than the Greco-Roman world. In Viking societies women had far more rights and authority than in Christendom, including even the right to divorce. As the culture was seafaring, men could be away for months (or years) at a time leaving women to tend to whatever the family had. I suspect that androgyny even has a genetic basis, given that surviving in Northern Europe in preindustrial times was not easy and required labor and leadership from all.
Scandinavian women do not expect men to pick up the chick, hold open the door, carry their luggage, or any of the other chivalrous things that are taken for granted in the US and Canada. To some extent this is true of all Northern European societies (I can't speak for the Mediterranean countries), but it is most developed in Scandinavia. Similarly, men will actually do household chores in Scandinavian families to a much greater extent than American men. This is accepted by most and you do not hear grousing, though some traditionalism exists. For instance, when I was at my grandmother's apartment with one of my cousins and his wife, his wife bussed the table while we spent quality time with our grandmother. As many of you know, American women would be bitchy about this.
I am active in the Chicago area Swedish-American Chamber of Commerce, and Swedish women accustomed to American society eventually grow to like American chivalry. However, they are horrified by the behavior of American women. The pettiness, bitchiness, and callous behavior of American women offends them. One behavior they especially loathe is how American girls constantly stab each other in the back. While this of course exists in Sweden as it exists in all women, it is simply much less common there and will result in ostracization. A lot of traditional Swedish and Norwegian literature deals with the phenomenon of evil women and how they must be scorned by the community.
The biggest, most jarring exception to this is that labor markets in Scandinavia, especially Sweden and Norway, are highly segregated by gender. Men predominantly work in the private sector, and women primarily work in the public sector--though naturally there is overlap. Humorously, the Swedish terms for these translate to "nourishing life" and "taking life", though these are somewhat archaic. Most of the work done by women in the public sector is bullshit--every chick you meet seems to be a social worker or some sort of nonsense expert on gender equality. It is effectively an enormous Social Democratic wealth transfer program which was engineered to create gender quality and to monetize household sectors of the economy in order to raise the output of the service sector.
As to why men aren't fighting this to the same degree, Vicious does have a point that things aren't so bad. There is more to it than this. Anglo-Saxon, and especially American, cultures are not only individualistic, but highly combative and competitive. Scandinavian societies are very homogeneous, harmonious, and consensus driven--Sweden above all to the point where Swedes are sometimes called Europe's Japanese. There was significant class conflict in the early 20th century was has left a bitter taste in the public discourse today. Dissent and dissidence are highly uncommon. In America you have many dissident movements, some quite massive, because this is in line with our culture. Not just men's rights, but you can find white nationalist and other racialist movements, the alt right, libertarianism, evangelical Christians, "anti-globalization" activists, and the general "rugged individualist" impulse to fight everyone who won't leave you alone. Aside from ethnic nationalism, as is increasingly common in all European countries, the only dissidence in Sweden is the far left, which is hardly dissidence at all and tacitly endorsed by the political mainstream.
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