[The Catalyst]

I wanted to say desire to be approached but thread title limit.

I recently started a thread in the Game forum about Anglo girls. thread-71687.html

It then became well established that this is a standard phenomenon and that the practical advice is just to minimise interaction with them. Good, solid practical advice- I'm not ungrateful about it.

I believe the abstract topic/discussion is interesting though. However, the game forum is very practical and I don't want to bog them down with abstract discussion. Also once I've taken in all the practical advice there's nothing much useful to be gained from more advice to me. So I made a specific thread about it.

So, here we will discuss. What exactly is broken about Anglo culture that makes girls this way? Why are they so stubbornly insistent on guys in their social circle over guys they are more attracted to outside of their social circle? Why can't they function without their phones/social media etc. And maybe society-wide practical solutions to this. This is I believe a good thing to think about because normal girls aren't like this(well, not to this extent anyway) so it should be easier to pinpoint the abnormality of Anglo culture.

[GreenHills]

In the US. Media is blasting all the time about rapes. Lots of men on the street with mental health issues that harass women. Violent crime more common than other parts of the world. Homelessness. Drug usage.

All of this plays a role. A woman doesn’t know who you are. Women I chat with at work (large amounts of workers) are pretty friendly for example, but that’s a trusted environment.

[Buck Wild]

Men curated through the social circle have skin in the game re: their reputation (ie, accountability) and are pre-screened as having value. With this is mind, I think it's actually quite normal for women greatly prefer social circle guys rather than chancing strange cock.

Anglo women might be even more closed off to outside guys because the culture has become so misandric. I was a fairly successful cold approacher in high school, college and afterward...right up until around 2010 or so. The level of effort I had to put in for the same results gradually increased. Sure, the smartphone and app dating started getting huge then, but so did the rape hysteria as well. Sure you have feminism in Sweden, Germany, etc but you don't have their feminists pushing fake stats to make it look like 1 in 5 men are rapists.

Anglo feminism is simply a different ballgame and more closed-off, socially retarded women is one of the results.

[Thot Leader]

Anglo girls (and guys) are socialized primarily by the peer group, which has replaced the nuclear and extended family as kids' primary influence growing up. The main reason for this is feminism and its consequences (divorce, moms who work 40-60 hours per week, and so on). The result is that girls' entire concept of bonding and relationships is based on the dynamic that exists within the childhood peer group. This is something Dr. Gabor Mate has talked about at great length:

Quote:

Children cannot be oriented to both adults and other children simultaneously. One cannot follow two sets of conflicting directions at the same time. The child’s brain must automatically choose between parental values and peer values, parental guidance and peer guidance, parental culture and peer culture whenever the two would appear to be in conflict.

Are we saying that children should have no friends their own age or form connections with other children? On the contrary—such ties are natural and can serve a healthy purpose. In adult-oriented cultures, where the guiding principles and values are those of the more mature generations, kids attach to each other without losing their bearings or rejecting the guidance of their parents. In our society that is no longer the case. Peer bonds have come to replace relationships with adults as children’s primary sources of orientation. What is unnatural is not peer contact, but that children should have become the dominant influence on each other’s development.

This also explains why Anglo girls are generally spoiled, childish, self-centered, crazy bitches. You don't see this same phenomenon to the same extent in other ethnic groups. Girls from European, or Latin, or Asian backgrounds aren't raised by the schoolyard the way Anglo white girls are.

[The Catalyst]

(12-28-2018 10:07 PM)Thot Leader Wrote:  

Anglo girls (and guys) are socialized primarily by the peer group, which has replaced the nuclear and extended family as kids' primary influence growing up. The main reason for this is feminism and its consequences (divorce, moms who work 40-60 hours per week, and so on). The result is that girls' entire concept of bonding and relationships is based on the dynamic that exists within the childhood peer group. This is something Dr. Gabor Mate has talked about at great length:

There definitely does seem to be something to this. My American friend said Kiwi parents do tend to neglect their kids for some reason.

Apparently once a teacher was hitting children in class(age ~13 or so). Her kid told her, and everyone knew, but when she was organising a PTA to take action to do something about it she was shocked to realise none of the other Kiwi parents knew about it even though the Kiwi kids had came over to her place and discussed it openly. She found it mindblowing realising that Kiwi parents pretty much don't know much about what's happening in their childrens' lives.

Related(conjecture): the chav/bogan phenomenon. While it might seem cultural, I've noticed many middle class families raise "bogan"/semi-bogan children, and a lot of bogan youth tend to mellow out when they grow older and raise children. Boganness is really bad/dysfunctional, so I found it really confusing/frustrating as to why the parents didn't put a stop to it.

[Aurini]

Had an old flame look me up on social media; she's semi-familiar with what I talk and write about. We hung out. She ordered a Christmas present for Space Dog.

Then - possibly because I didn't text her when I said I would - she decided to do a deep search of everything I'd ever posted, ever. Flipped out on me while drunk about something I posted five years ago, but wouldn't tell me what it was. Something that was sexist and upset her.

Point being: she couldn't separate her ideology from her lived experience. Would constantly comment on how kind of a person I was, and then recoil from my "evil" beliefs. Couldn't see that the "evil" is what produces the good; in the same manner than male feminists wind up as rapey sneaky-males. She chose her ideology (which has turned her into an alcoholic cat lady) over good company.

White girls love their ideology; the world of CNN and Facebook. They hate their lying eyes.

[Day Game Bang]

(12-28-2018 09:51 PM)GreenHills Wrote:  

In the US. Media is blasting all the time about rapes. Lots of men on the street with mental health issues that harass women. Violent crime more common than other parts of the world. Homelessness. Drug usage.

All of this plays a role. A woman doesn’t know who you are. Women I chat with at work (large amounts of workers) are pretty friendly for example, but that’s a trusted environment.

As much as I dislike (borderline hate) American and Anglo women, guys in the anglosphere are partly to blame. I have 2 sisters and they have been street harassed by men in the U.S. -- even my female cousins have commented about it as well.

Women are friendlier in work environments, but there is a risk she could report you to HR for any sort of "friendly" behavior.

[Thot Leader]

(12-28-2018 10:32 PM)Aurini Wrote:  

Point being: she couldn't separate her ideology from her lived experience. Would constantly comment on how kind of a person I was, and then recoil from my "evil" beliefs. Couldn't see that the "evil" is what produces the good; in the same manner than male feminists wind up as rapey sneaky-males. She chose her ideology (which has turned her into an alcoholic cat lady) over good company.

White girls love their ideology; the world of CNN and Facebook. They hate their lying eyes.

I've had the same thing happen to me various times with gf's and female friends and it never ceases to amaze me. "If you think I'm a bad guy, why have you happily dated me for the past year/been good friends with me for three years?" And they literally never have an answer.

Western women love their ideology, which is largely at odds with the natural/empirical world, and so they live in a perpetual state of cognitive dissonance (one of several reasons they are all out of their minds with anxiety and depression). But I wonder why this is, the fixation with ideology.

It should be noted that worldwide, women are more religious than men. So maybe it's not just western women that love ideology, maybe it is intrinsic to female nature (obedience to social norms, observance of social hierarchies, rituals, fashions, etc.), and so what we're seeing is the result of the great bait and switch that saw the west abandon tradition in favor of the toxic sludge that passes for culture today.

[Day Game Bang]

Sometimes we have to look at it from a woman's perspective. They are human beings too. Its part of self-improvement and game overall.

[Sgt Donger]

It's not a lack of social skills...the anglo girls are withdrawing, they don't want to be randomly approached.

They don't want a random thug, Asian, indian, African wannbae players harassing them in the supermarket, shopping center, etc. etc

They have friends to impress, families to explain shit to, their own sense of identity...which is being eroded everyday

Some guys here discuss reclaiming culture and identity, and regret the problems that we have via immigration, etc

The anglo girls also see this, and they express it by withdrawing

[The Catalyst]

I'll quote the first 3 posts of the thread as they give important context.

(12-18-2018 05:37 AM)The Catalyst Wrote:  

As of late I'm noticing Anglo(in particular Kiwi- but I think British/Aussie girls to a certain extent, and one Westernised Asian girl) girls have been brutally rejecting me, or if I do an approach a lot of them act as if I'm doing something wrong and they're sickened at being disturbed, and act like I need to leave them alone. Almost like they're triggered or frightened of me. This seems to have increased relative to a few months/years ago.

I do believe my game has improved so it's a bit of a mindfuck how it seems like I'm treated worse.

I don't get the same vibe/treatment with Euro/Asian/SA/NA girls. Even if I make mistakes the girls are still happy with the conversation. I've mostly been approaching Euro girls and they're treating me nicer than they used to, which was still really good then. I'm thankful for the Euro girls otherwise I would seriously worry my game has started to regress.

I'm wondering the possible reasons for this. I think it's unlikely Anglo girls treat me how I should be treated, while Euro girls think the same way but "are just trying to be nice". My impression is Euro girls are less scared/more independent, so they would have significantly less hesitation telling me what they really think about me. Kiwi/Anglo people generally are really scared/conflict avoidant and insist on "trying to be nice", which is weird how I've been brutally rejected by a string of them.

Possible conjectures:

-I've gotten more conservative and confident in myself over the years. This leads the rabbits/insecure people to despise you. Sounds far-fetched but I think this is really plausible, Kiwis often feel relieved/comfortable if you're insecure and reliant on them for your own self-worth, and triggered/panicked if you have your own opinion and don't care what they think.

-More and more anti-male culture in Anglo society. I don't know about this but I'm just throwing something at the wall.

-Maybe there's a string of PUAs or other aggressive guys that turn off girls to approaches. I've noticed a sparing amount of PUA style approaches when I wouldn't really notice any before.

Right now when I go to cold approach if I notice the girl is Anglo I feel a huge aversive feeling in my head. I don't feel this if the girl is not Anglo. Until I figure this out, I will not bother approaching any Anglo girl unless she is either 1) my type perfectly/really attractive(that is, I'd kick myself for not approaching) 2) seems really happy/psychologically well-adjusted 3) gives me IOIs. While I still am comfortable approaching a bitch face Euro girl who's perhaps even more attractive than the Anglo girl.

I wonder if anyone else has experienced something similar. I feel like i'm going crazy yet I can't help but think there's a pattern here.

(12-18-2018 05:59 AM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

Anglo girls in general have the worst social skills compared to other girls, that's why. Think bad Game but on the girls side.

(12-18-2018 06:43 AM)GT777733 Wrote:  

It's built into Western culture in Australia and New Zealand to see people outside of your immediate social circle as weird or non-existent or low value, and not be very open.

I was seeing a South American girl in Australia for a bit, and she mentioned this exact thing without me bringing it up.

On top of this - more and more young girls these days are spending so much time talking to each other virtually on social media and via messaging apps, that talking on the phone and cold approach is becoming more anxiety inducing and foreign for them.

Your plan is a good one.

See Australian and New Zealand girls as mostly a lost cause (not all of them are, but majority are just too hooked into social circle, the toxic culture and technology) - and only give your time to the ones you feel the strongest attraction for, who look the happiest and give you some type of IOI. This will give you the best ROI on your time, and save you lots of lost mental and emotional energy. Try different venues like universities, special events, festivals, markets, etc. Try to be spontaneous and do it within your daily activity, and don't go out just to 'game' as much.

If you need to start travelling on top of this to get access to other girls, do that.

Also, long term, focus on building your core value, finances and lifestyle to give you maximum flexibility going forward, so you aren't trapped in a short term strategy.

[Disco_Volante]

There's no sense of community anymore so when approaching a girl in your town, you no longer have the benefit of the doubt or inherent value of maybe being in her peer group. Everyone is a stranger now and they will treat you as such. Maybe 1950s-1980s there was more of an identity in towns/cities that just by being a member of a community you had a base value that a girl would respect.
Now it's very tribal and will only get worse. If you don't have heavy, over-reaching social value she's not going to be open to even talking to you. And yes, I think white girls definitely sense their value increasing exponentially. I think the late 90s was the last normal dating market here. If you remember 90s culture like the early "Real World" or songs about going to a bar and hooking up with a stranger was common. Now it requires exquisite game.

Maybe when I'm 90 years old I'll be telling my nurse attendant how when I was 16 I had dated several blonde girls and that was normal, because at that point only billionaires will be banging the few blondes left on Earth.

[RatInTheWoods]

They don't want to be approached on the street *, they can choose their cock from a menu on tinder.


* unless you are top 5% like the menu on offer on tinder, they they would love you to approach them

[StrikeBack]

It's not that complicated. My post from the other thread:

Anglo is the mainstream culture in ANZ, of course they are going to be affected more. If they are from a typical white ANZ suburban background, they would have smaller families, 1 or no sibling, hardly any cousin, never interact with neighbours or local communities, never talk to strangers (meaning anyone who's not in their immediate class group at school or uni)... Those girls are not going to respond well to your approaches. But it's not just you. Everyone else - other girls, children, the elderly, other adults, their professors, their bosses etc. - has the same problem with them. They were poorly socialised as children, and they develop into adults with retarded social skills.

[Aurini]

(12-29-2018 12:13 AM)Thot Leader Wrote:  

(12-28-2018 10:32 PM)Aurini Wrote:  

Point being: she couldn't separate her ideology from her lived experience. Would constantly comment on how kind of a person I was, and then recoil from my "evil" beliefs. Couldn't see that the "evil" is what produces the good; in the same manner than male feminists wind up as rapey sneaky-males. She chose her ideology (which has turned her into an alcoholic cat lady) over good company.

White girls love their ideology; the world of CNN and Facebook. They hate their lying eyes.

I've had the same thing happen to me various times with gf's and female friends and it never ceases to amaze me. "If you think I'm a bad guy, why have you happily dated me for the past year/been good friends with me for three years?" And they literally never have an answer.

Proof of my character is Space Dog. Returned to the pound three times before I met her - about to go back a fourth when I adopted her. Now? She's a Love Dog. Big suck. Doesn't listen to a word I say, but I can leave bacon out on the counter without her eating it, and while she'll never heel when I walk her, my buddy's 6 year old daughter can walk her, and she doesn't even pull.

She's a very intelligent dog who just needed to feel valued. And she does with me. I take care of my people, and while I'm not perfect (sometimes I snap at people) I do my best to treat others with love and respect.

Ergo, Space Dog. She's comfortable around me. She knows that I'm not going anywhere - that sometimes I indulge her - and that if i don't, I will soon. She trusts me because I'm a trustworthy man.

Forget ideology: I will treat you the way I say I will treat you, with honour and respect. Whether you be a dog or a man. I do not exploit or take advantage. Space Dog has the sense to see this. Women sense this. But then...

Quote:

Western women love their ideology, which is largely at odds with the natural/empirical world, and so they live in a perpetual state of cognitive dissonance (one of several reasons they are all out of their minds with anxiety and depression). But I wonder why this is, the fixation with ideology.

It should be noted that worldwide, women are more religious than men. So maybe it's not just western women that love ideology, maybe it is intrinsic to female nature (obedience to social norms, observance of social hierarchies, rituals, fashions, etc.), and so what we're seeing is the result of the great bait and switch that saw the west abandon tradition in favor of the toxic sludge that passes for culture today.

This is why I demand complete submission from a woman. Not uninformed submission - she must consent. But I have proven myself multiples times as a man. I know my character. My dog knows my character. My flaws - those I will openly confess, and ask her help in mitigating those. But I am not an ideology.

Ideology is a world as imaginary as any work of fiction. It is as wretched as 30 year old men who pretend to be "Space Marines" at ComicCon, but have never trained with a rifle. It is a world of lies and deceit.

I demand that a woman abandon the world of ideology for the world of truth; of real consequence. And that she choose me, not as her temporary beau, but as her Knight whom she will honour and obey.

Few women want this. It would be nice if the Church supported us.

[mr-ed209]

Most Anglo girls already have every one of their needs met, such is the way society and smartphones pander to them nowadays. Random unproven men approaching spontaneously adds little value and is often just an inconvenience to them. For a girl below 25, social circle is the most important thing and is something that they are constantly in communication with, either through group chats, and snapchat etc. Most girls can't even take a piss by themselves when they're out, without dragging a friend along or telling their stream of online suiters.

It creates a very 'us and them' high school clique mentality that continues into their early 20s and beyond. It's like teenagers who shut off from being proper social beings to the rest of the world, because the rest of the world to them isn't cool like their friends are. When the reality is that people don't want to face the harshness of strangers and stick the burden to provide value and/or be interesting to others.

It's changed the dynamics of going out, where girls used to dress up to get hit on by guys in a club. To girls getting dressed up for the sake of posting pictures on their instagram and get their attention that way instead.

[No More Mr. Soy Boy]

(12-29-2018 09:14 AM)mr-ed209 Wrote:  

Most girls can't even take a piss by themselves when they're out, without dragging a friend along or telling their stream of online suiters.

Haha! That cracked me up, anyone who has been out knows it's so true.

[the-dream]

I don't think this is a phenomena limited to Anglo girls or even girls, it's a general human thing.

It's probably an instinct we have to stop us straying from our tribes because our ancestors who didn't have this instinct were killed.

I think it is more obvious in the West because in the West, our communities or "tribe" are pretty much non existent so any communication with anybody is met with fear. Whereas in other cultures, their extended families, villages and social groups are much larger yet more tight knit so there is more trust as everyone assumes that you know somebody who knows somebody who they know and you wouldn't break their trust by doing something bad.

[thedarkknight]

(12-29-2018 12:45 AM)Sgt Donger Wrote:  

It's not a lack of social skills...the anglo girls are withdrawing, they don't want to be randomly approached.

They don't want a random thug, Asian, indian, African wannbae players harassing them in the supermarket, shopping center, etc. etc

They have friends to impress, families to explain shit to, their own sense of identity...which is being eroded everyday

Some guys here discuss reclaiming culture and identity, and regret the problems that we have via immigration, etc

The anglo girls also see this, and they express it by withdrawing

I 100% agree with this post. Especially upper and middle class anglo chicks. They are not stupid. They see what the dudes on this forum see.

TDK

[JWLZG]

(12-28-2018 09:17 PM)The Catalyst Wrote:  

I wanted to say desire to be approached but thread title limit.

I recently started a thread in the Game forum about Anglo girls. thread-71687.html

It then became well established that this is a standard phenomenon and that the practical advice is just to minimise interaction with them. Good, solid practical advice- I'm not ungrateful about it.

I believe the abstract topic/discussion is interesting though. However, the game forum is very practical and I don't want to bog them down with abstract discussion. Also once I've taken in all the practical advice there's nothing much useful to be gained from more advice to me. So I made a specific thread about it.

So, here we will discuss. What exactly is broken about Anglo culture that makes girls this way? Why are they so stubbornly insistent on guys in their social circle over guys they are more attracted to outside of their social circle? Why can't they function without their phones/social media etc. And maybe society-wide practical solutions to this. This is I believe a good thing to think about because normal girls aren't like this(well, not to this extent anyway) so it should be easier to pinpoint the abnormality of Anglo culture.

I've responded to your other thread. Suffice to say, your abstract isn't an issue that we'll solve in one day.

(12-29-2018 12:12 AM)Day Game Bang Wrote:  

As much as I dislike (borderline hate) American and Anglo women, guys in the anglosphere are partly to blame. I have 2 sisters and they have been street harassed by men in the U.S. -- even my female cousins have commented about it as well.

It's a vicious cycle to be sure. The average man on the ground might not be aware of it — and not all are deserving of the RP — but it's irresponsible of them to self=absolve themselves of blame.

(12-29-2018 12:12 AM)Day Game Bang Wrote:  

Women are friendlier in work environments, but there is a risk she could report you to HR for any sort of "friendly" behavior.

As an above-average guy who has faced two #MeToo situations at work — in an Anglosphere country — in one year, understanding game and the red pill are important, appreciating how to deploy them is even more so. It's much the same as the martial artist's relationship with his weapons.

[Heuristics]

My working theory is that #metoo culture, coupled with smartphones and modern attention spans has all but inoculated women to approaches. We could also add to that Tinder and associated dating apps which have put women in a situation where it is no longer necessary for men to approach them. In fact they get all the validation of men approaching them but no creepiness or drawn out interactions that are not desirable to her. With a dating app, or the internet, she can find everything out she wants to about you, compare you to other suitors, and then if she runs out of energy just use both you and your competitor for shits and giggles on a hungover Sunday. Anti-natalist trends that are becoming the norm in the West ensure that women's wombs are literally drying up while they take their pick of alpha dick (for both pre- and post- wall women), all while pursuing their meaningful career and adding to their cat collection.

Most women are not interesting and their dating profiles read like NPC dating profiles. When its a market skewed in favor of women (I'm absolutely convinced it is), women become ridiculously entitled, bitchy (especially in regards to politics), and generally they become boring to spend extended periods of time with. Most millennial women can not socialize, while paradoxically their social media/ technology IQ is high. Say one wrong line to one of these girls on your pick of communication modes and you're sunk. There's plenty of other betas willing to take your place.

[GT777733]

The absolute base reason for it if you really want to know is this:

Environment.

In Australia specifically, it's a risk-averse culture, with a high quality of living, with a good health care system and public benefits, with very liberal schools and media, with well paying jobs, parents who pay for things for their kids, with highly connected social circles at the top.

Both men and women already have much of what they need here. Most things are in excess - so people take the path of least resistance.

What pressure is there for both men and women here to take more risks, develop more self awareness, be more open, be more understanding, level up as a person, go outside their immediate social circles?

Very little. You've already got a family, a dog, a pet, a job, money, you travel, you probably are going to buy a house.

Let's compare that to a place like Russia.

Way more females than males. Lots of poverty in rural areas. Lots of competition between females (because there are many beautiful girls there). Way less excess opportunities and resources there so you have to work harder for what you get. It's just a lower quality society economically per capita in many ways (lots of very poor families, and standard of living for a lot of people can be harder) than a place like Australia. It's also a different culture to Australia with less liberalism - coming from ex communist times (which were very tough times).

An average girl born in Australia is born with a silver spoon in her mouth. A girl in Russia is more likely to be born with no spoon at all.

Which one do you think has more incentive to build character and engage with the outside world?

It's simple environmental evolutionary pressure.

It's mostly environment that creates most people. Very few people have the focus and willpower to turn out anything different than what their environment encourages them to be.

[GT777733]

One other thing I'd probably note is this - majority of pickup guys probably don't deserve some of the girls they approach, and/or they do it in completely the wrong way.

I say this because it takes a guy usually his entire 20's hustling to start building real value and rounding himself out. In addition to that, put yourself in the girls shoes. Me personally, I'd start getting pretty annoyed if every time I walked out the house, girls that were 6's or 7's and below came up and asked for my number or expected me to stop and talk to them while I was doing something or while I was trying to enjoy myself. I don't blame girls for coming across as bitchy or cold if this is happening to them regularly.

I don't think guys even think about that - the girl's experience.

As a guy, start being realistic about girls and cold approach. Work on maximising your value, and be both realistic and natural about the girls you approach and talk to.

[scrambled]

Are guys approaching that much inreal life, daygame? Hard to believe. It ain't easy.

[Rorogue]

Stg Wrote:

It's not a lack of social skills...the anglo girls are withdrawing, they don't want to be randomly approached.

They don't want a random thug, Asian, indian, African wannbae players harassing them in the supermarket, shopping center, etc. etc

They have friends to impress, families to explain shit to, their own sense of identity...which is being eroded everyday

Some guys here discuss reclaiming culture and identity, and regret the problems that we have via immigration, etc

The anglo girls also see this, and they express it by withdrawing

They also don't want to be bothered by 70% of Anglo men.

I don't think it's national identity as much as hypergamy and what they deem as valuable.

A 6'3/muscular/famous/very good looking non white man will be invited to defile her.

They may have thoughts of tribalism but their biology will usually win out in this environment