[Waqqle]

I am making this thread because I want to get the opinions of some other guys in this forum for the curiosity's sake as I have only my own experience an perspective to view things from and thus don't know what if anything I could be overlooking or missing entirely and, for reasons that will undoubtedly become clear, this is not something that I want to bring up and talk about with my folks or other random people during the holidays (or any other time if I can avoid it). I also do not want to post this on an autism-specific forum or website as every one of those I have ever seen have been SJW cesspits, where almost nothing of value is ever said and, if it is, the individual who said it is immediately set upon by the trigger mob if not outright banned for hate speech.

The subject, as you may no doubt have guessed, is Autism or, more specifically, how it is often dealt with, particularly though surely not exclusively in the West. This will contain a very brief summary of some of my own experiences which are likely not being replicated perfectly in other countries but I think that the non-Americans here may find it interesting as well as something comparable is likely happening in your countries.

Before I get the "you don't understand" email, I was officially diagnosed with High-Functioning Autism by a licensed and fully qualified (employed by the US military) psychiatrist who had special training to diagnose and deal with autism. I was put in Special Education due to "disciplinary issues" as a kid starting in Kindergarten at age 5 (no one tested for autism back then), sharing a classroom mostly with other children who were legitimately disabled (mentally and in other ways), despite scoring high enough on a mandatory IQ test, which was given to all children entering elementary school at the time, to warrant my being placed in what was then called the "Gifted" program later on. This was a separate academic program for children with abnormally high IQs. I would estimate that fewer than 1% of the students in my school were in it. I say this not to brag but only to make it clear that, while undeniably and sometimes hilariously autistic, I am not cognitively impaired.

Important: From this point forward, I will be using the words "Autism" and "autistic" to refer to people like myself who are on the high-functioning (high IQ) end of the autistic spectrum and not people who are on the low/"severe" (low IQ) end. This is for convenience.

What follows contains a very short version of a much longer story that I have included here to give some background as to where my curiosity regarding this subject originates from. It gets pretty dark at certain points but I did not write it to sob or seek pity. I was unemotional as I wrote it and am not losing my mind at the moment either. It is not something that causes me to be unhinged now. It is only a statement of facts and an account of events that transpired a very long time ago. I am fine now, things are generally going pretty well, and, if you came across me randomly somewhere without knowing who I am, you would never guess that I am autistic or that there is anything else significantly different about me as I am not physically deformed in any way and I am a fairly good looking guy with good genetics who has put in the time and effort to take care of myself and look decent as well as to make myself socially passable. I hold my own life and accomplishments up as proof that, provided that an individual is not severely mentally retarded (in which case I do not know how to help), social skills can usually if not always be learned intentionally through focused effort and the red pill only makes it easier.


That said, here it is:

I grew up in a pretty sick environment looking back on it as Special Ed teachers could, and probably still can, do pretty much whatever they want to the kids since some of them can't talk and those who can either have communication problems, are too traumatized to talk about it, have never known anything else so would not even know to think they they were abused let alone bring it up to anyone, or the adults in their lives simply do not care enough to really listen to them. So I was never much able or allowed to fall back on any excuses for being socially incapable or dysfunctional. Because of this, I got into learning social skills in a focused and intentional way in high school and continue that practice still.

I was physically subdued and locked in a cell very very often (almost every day some weeks) for hours at a time and missed the bus home more than once because they would not let me out. Most of the time, I did not understand what I had done wrong or why I was being locked up but, from the fact that they sometimes went up to the small window (which was maybe 6x6 inches, too high for me to reach at that age, and had a wire grid inside of it - like you see in prison cells) to laugh at me, I guessed that it was sometimes for no reason other than because it was funny to them.

The cells I got locked in (I don't think there is a universal design - I think every county kind of wings it but my county was fairly affluent and therefor very well-funded so my cells were very well-constructed) never had pads and they all had thick steel doors as well as a bright fluorescent lights that glared off of the bleached white tile floors and white brick walls that were not even far enough away from each other to give me space to lay down with my limbs outstretched. Add to this the fact that those lights made a buzzing sound that seemed to get louder every minute that I was locked in there alone without any idea of how much time had passed or what time it was and you have a recipe for what is essentially a torture chamber for an autistic child who is so sensitive to noises and bright lights as to be pained by them. They were also usually in a room separate from the main classroom so as to make it harder to hear the screaming but I could usually still hear it and it was pretty freaky to see other kids getting dragged out of the classroom to be taken there but eventually got used to it and even forgot to think that there was anything strange about it.

I also never had a bean bag chair. I don't know what that's all about but I suspect it is just there for the reporters.

This of course is making no mention of how the teachers got unwilling children such as myself into the cell in the first place. Basically, the teachers (there were always multiple - and I never had a male one so I disregard any notion that women are naturally more compassionate or less violent than men), would surround, corral, and subdue me physically before taking me to the floor and sitting on me with their full bodyweight (this could be one reason for my almost pathological disdain for obesity and the "fat acceptance" movement) until, I could no longer speak or breathe and I started seeing floaters in my eyes as my vision began to fade. At that point, when I no longer was able to physically resist, I would be dragged into the cell and locked up for however long they felt like leaving me in there or until an even more unruly (and, honestly, probably mentally retarded) child would be dragged in, screaming and struggling, to replace me. A cell was almost never empty and, when it was, it didn't remain so for very long.

I both experienced and saw that every weekday for my first 5 years of elementary school and, after I left Special Ed and entered the "mainstream," the threat of being sent back to Special Ed was constantly held over me by the various counselors I had to meet with regularly to discuss my "progress." In all that time and since then, I have never felt that I had compelling reason to believe that any significant portion of the American populace is genuinely bothered enough by this system to do anything decisive about it or, God forbid, try to be aware of what is happening to their children. Frankly, the American people as a whole are the ones funding, enabling, and supporting (or at least ignoring) this system. I sincerely believe that most Americans are apathetic and cowardly enough that they would willingly allow someone to lock their own children in cells and be tortured for any length of time if it meant that they would never have to "give up their career" to raise them properly (especially moms) or face some genuine adversity and pushback from a distant and impersonal governmental system that legitimately wishes and intends to make their children disappear from the face of the Earth for years at a time if not forever (there is probably some secret hope that SpEd kids will eventually commit suicide and cease to be eyesores to the rest of society) simply because it requires effort to raise one's own child when the government is incapable, due to said child being abnormal in some non-clinical way, of doing it for you (at great cost in terms of their tax burdens of course).

Part of me suspects that this whole ridiculous situation is in some way a kind of reincarnation of the US's earlier infatuation with eugenics, social planning, puritanism, and utopianism as well as being a convenient way to perpetuate the myth that traditional gender roles are purely social constructs with no biological or social merits and that stay at home moms are not as good as working ones.

Personally, I think I would rather have just been whipped with a tree branch or something and then sent back to class than be locked in a sensory torture chamber and forced to live as a child with not the suspicion but the knowledge that nobody anywhere was going to help me and that they most likely would never even know, let alone care, about anything that happened to me as long as they did not have to personally see it or explain it to someone else. At least there is no stigma against that whereas, if you tell someone that you were in Special Ed, there was at least a feeling that they will not even hear the rest of your story and will forever think that you are so cognitively stunted that they cannot carry on a relationship with you (this feeling is no longer with me). This is one other reason why it was so bizarre to be getting punished and locked up all the time by people who, even at that age, I could tell were less intelligent than myself (not to say that I am the smartest guy in the world but I was certainly the smartest person in the room). Several years ago, I read Curse of the High IQ by Aaron Clarey and felt at that time that his explanation of his own experience growing up surrounded by and being largely at the mercy of less mentally capable people in many ways was similar to my own and very relatable.

As far as education, I was basically self-taught up until high school. I had to be as I was getting pulled out of class too often to catch all of the lessons and, even after I entered the "mainstream," was too busy getting bullied and worrying about the fact that I was surrounded at all times by enemies who wished to do me physical or at least psychological harm (and who would get away with it) to really be engaged by whatever was being taught. In high school, I took advantage of the fact that there were a few thousand other students and all but a few of them did not know me. I spent almost every morning in the library and much of my time in class reading a series of books that I would check out from the library in which every country in the world had its own book that included all sorts of historical and cultural facts about the country as well as geographic and statistical information. The only classes I ever actually studied for were Physics and Algebra and that is only because I found them so damn boring. In the other classes, I either did not pay attention at all (choosing to read my own books instead) or I played the class clown as a way to practice making jokes and learning humor in an environment where I knew nobody would see me outside of class and where I would be placed with an entirely new set of people the following year.

So, since then, I have essentially viewed the majority of normal ("neurotypical" has a bit of an SJW feel to it) Americans as NPCs (not in an arrogant way but in an "it is not possible to make them care or understand" sort of way) and have gone out of my way to make as much of a joke of the American education system as I possibly can in my own life and push myself as far out of the box that they tried to put me in as I am able. Basically, if they told me that "x" is true, I am going to operate on the assumption that "x" is false until I have some very compelling evidence of the contrary. I also enjoy every chance I get to slaughter the sacred cows of other Americans (when given good reason to do so - some people should simply not be respected and their beliefs are only deserving of contempt) such as "it's all for the children" and "we really love our son/daughter but we just do not get to see them as much as we want" right in front of them and while making direct eye contact so that they know that I understand what I am doing to them and how little I think of their excuses and rationalizations for unnecessarily subjecting children to neglect and abuse. I'm kind of like a non-violent autistic version of the Joker from Batman (the one played by Heath Ledger) in that sense as I see this is an almost necessary thing to do since their sacred cows caused me so much distress and misery in my own life and are undoubtedly continuing to harm children up to now. Maybe my experience just turned me into a bit of a sociopath and I'm really only doing it because it is fun for me now.

It is sad to say but I hardly ever saw or spoke to my parents while growing up and I cannot say that I do not still harbor some resentment toward them for willingly allowing themselves to be so oblivious of what was going on in my life during my most crucial developmental years. Frankly, I suspect that, on some level, they always knew but did not wish to make waves. At any rate, I do not know if a healthy relationship will ever be possible with them, or anyone else in my family for that matter. The time that I would have spent bonding with them and having them imprint on me was time that I instead spent in what was effectively a secret prison for the un-aborted. That early childhood bonding simply never happened.

*I also was a daycare kid and took the bus from school to daycare every day to wait for one of my parents to pick me up in the evening.

*Don't get me wrong, no child is perfect and there were certainly some times in my life where an ass kicking was entirely warranted but I think it would have been better to get an ass kicking and an explanation as to why it was happening than having to endure prolonged periods of psychological torture with no explanation.

I mention this not to make anyone sad but only as a a statement of fact in the interest of being real. "Autistic" does not necessarily mean "unfit for life." It only means that social skills will need to be taught and learned in a deliberate and focused manner because they will not come naturally and organically as they would with a normal person. Mercifully, it also means that, if your child is high-functioning, they will likely be more intelligent than most if not all of their peers and will thus be far more capable once they have gotten the social part of their life skill set in order. So there is no justifiable reason in my view to put them in SpEd and, to be honest, if a kid is so severely mentally disabled that he/she cannot even be allowed into a normal classroom environment, that either says that there is something very wrong and unnatural about that environment or that the child in question should not be in school in the first place because being there is not going to do anything positive for them. As I see it, it's just a way for women to forsake their children and for fathers and society at large to meekly allow their wives to do it when not vocally supporting them.


Anyway, while I always knew that I had some kind of issue, I did not know that my issue was autism until I was 23 and in the Army. In the Army, due to the high-stress nature of the environment and the fact that you are surrounded at all times by other people who see and hear everything you do even during times when, as a civilian, you would have normally been alone (think of habits like rocking back and forth that you don't notice yourself doing), any issues you have will be brought to the surface and become known at some point and, at that point, you will likely be asked to go to "Behavioral Health (the military psychiatrist)" to make sure that the kind of weird you are is the kind of weird that the Army can use or if it is better to let you go.

So, I had to see a doctor what seemed like every other day for about a month and a half and take a few tests during the process. At the end of it all, they told me that I have High-Functioning Autism (formerly called "Aspergers" - they don't use that diagnostic term anymore). Basically, the difference between someone with "High-Functioning" vs "Low-Functioning," as I understand it, is primarily a difference in IQ with the term "High-Functioning" obviously indicating that one is on the higher end of the IQ spectrum and, very often, far higher on it than average as we can see by the fact that autists, despite making up probably less than 1% of the population, are vastly overrepresented in every technical field that has anything to do with anything genuinely complex such as engineering, hard sciences, and medicine.


Questions I have had in my mind:

Weirdly, when it comes to dealing with women in a romantic and sexual context, casually mentioning this after talking for a while about other things has worked in my favor far more often than not because I explain it in an almost bragging "even as weird as I am, I am still more competent than everyone else you know" sort of way as opposed to the pitiful and timid way that most people reveal it (as if they were telling someone that they have a lethal contagion and are not long for this world) and I typically become more interesting and respectable to them by doing so. I do not mean to say that I am completely arrogant but only that I own it unapologetically and treat it as if I were an X-man and it were my mutation as that is not far from the truth since all of the X-men had a highly focused skill but were so weird and messed up in some other vital way as to be almost entirely incapable of functioning normally in society without deliberately training and undergoing great hardship specifically to be able to do so.

Personally, I suspect that much of what is classified as being problematic with "autism" would have in other eras been considered healthy masculine traits not so long ago (prior to the Industrial Revolution) and that the majority of people in the West are at this time so disconnected from anything real that these things have come to be seen as aberrations and pathologies whereas people in previous ages might have looked upon them favorably and possibly even preferred them. I say this because, at least in my own life, "Autism" generally seems to become an issue only when it comes to intuiting and engaging with other peoples' feelings, whether that be by recognizing their probably subconscious use of fluctuations in their voice tones, changes in their facial expressions, or some other mechanism of non-verbal communication that is naturally imperceptible to me.

I wonder, in what historical era or civilization were men considered more healthy and masculine for being flamboyantly expressive to the point of resembling a teenage valley girl or living and dying solely by their ability to make others believe that they did not and could never possibly represent any kind of threat to anyone? Autism is primarily a hereditary condition and, though it probably effects less than 1% of the population in any given country, it still is far more common than truly disadvantageous genetic conditions like hemophilia so there must have at some time been some evolutionary reason for it to come into existence and the qualities and traits of those men who had it must have been seen as useful and attractive enough for a substantial number of women to breed with them and eventually produce others like me, yes? Does it not seem that the social aspects of autism and these "disciplinary issues" which seem to almost exclusively effect male children and teenagers are possibly just traditionally masculine traits which have been pathologized in autistic males (who tend to display a more extreme version of them unless conditioned to do otherwise) as well as non-autistic males as another part of the larger "war on boys" that has been spoken of and written about?

As for the social skills aspect, I know firsthand how much this can confound a person's efforts in life and how the resulting isolation and feeling of hopelessness can cause them to find themselves in some very dark and frightening places. However, I also know firsthand that social skills can, if accurate information is available and regular practice is possible, be learned in a deliberate and, dare I say, autistically focused manner, at least to a high enough level so as to make a person capable of passing for normal if they should desire at any point to do that. So, rather than placing such people into Special Education, telling them to "just be themselves," or commit to some other non-action that essentially amounts to ignoring them and throwing them to the proverbial wolves, would it not make more sense, assuming that we actually care about them and/or what happens to them, to be real with them enough to identify for them the times when they are making mistakes and teach them specifically how to avoid that mistake in the future? It seems strange to me that no one (at least as far as I am aware) has proposed or attempted to do this on any large scale even despite the trend of parents and siblings attempting to experience the noble malaise of perpetual victimhood vicariously through their autistic kids having become somewhat fashionable as of late.

Naturally, the non-social issues which are characteristic of autism such as sensory problems, initially poor motor skills, and so on are probably incurable but, with the right approach, can usually be managed for the most part to the point where they do not constitute a major concern in the life of an autistic person once they have reached adulthood.

Considering the fact that autistic people are around 28 times more likely than a normal person to have seriously considered suicide by the time they are in their late twenties and something like 36% of them have attempted it by that same time, not to mention all of the other common issues that are known such as being far more likely to be bullied and less likely to develop enriching and comforting friendships with peers, trying something different surely could not make things very much worse than they already are could they?
https://church4everychild.org/2016/04/03...th-autism/

Again, these are all just my own thoughts and I could be completely off the mark. I would love to know what you guys think.

[Emancipator]

Send them here

online Weapon X program

[torridon747]

You sound angry and pretty socially uncalibrated with a chip on your shoulder. I'm sorry the current state of parenting left you with a chip on your shoulder. It's time to grow up and shed your past trauma, I don't mean pretend like it didn't happen. I mean understand why it happened, how it effected you, study yourself and know yourself well with complete honesty about your life,flaws,etc and where you find yourself now. If you're unable to give yourself such intense self-analysis you should do what it takes to get to that point.

Our whole educational system in general is basically a lost cause at this point, you probably know better than anyone. This whole post reads like you're still bitter and having issues, excuse me if that's not the case or are not looking for advice but I have some tips for you if it is.

If you're very intelligent you need to be socialized, often, and with purpose. There are very strong logical reasons people exhibit certain behavior even in very basic social interactions. When you have the building blocks, you can start parsing all this data you recieve every day. Social experiments can be fun and interesting. You need to gather data though and interpret that data. You also need the tools, schematics, and framework to interpret that social data. It's never easy and you will make a lot of mistakes along the way and probably embarrass yourself many times but as long as you keeo trying you will see results.

Something that helped me IMMENSELY was game. In some ways game is a toolset that you use to interpret obfuscated social data correctly, react to it in regards to your goals/needs whether that be using nuanced language that leaves its literal meanings by the wayside, understanding body language, knowing what eye contact means, when to apply intent to peoples words through tonalitu. It actually goes pretty deep what is known or very suspected about all the nuances in human communication. Luckily you're in the right place looking.

I've long suspected that I am somewhere on the autism spectrum, where that is in relation to yours I don't know. I do know that up until about 3 years ago I did not understand social ques barely at all, body language didn't make much sense to me, tone was lost on me, nuanced social interactions like "doubetalking", flirting, or anything that required "reading in between the lines" was basically lost on me. Even still sometimes I miss things. I had to learn all this stuff from the ground up, luckily for me Ive always been a curious soul and had no problem embarassing myself (i actually dont feel this way) myself by asking questions. I took a lot of theory, psychology, and instructions from this very forum as well as my own reading and applied it, aggregated data, and formed learned strategies that eventually assimilated into my personality and alleviated most of my social woes and functionally cured me of whatever it is that made all of those things hard for me. If you work hard and are genuinely curious about how these things work there is no limit to what you can do. Eventually you may even surpass your peers in social aptitude because you know the logical reasons why something happens and arr equipped to navigate those situations often for your benefit, whereas others mainly rely on instinct and are easily fooled/manipulated when confronted by a person with superior instinct and/or knowledge. Many people simply aren't as interested in people.

One large piece of this puzzle for me was evolutionary psychology. It's not extremely popular here but is the key to much of my understanding. First and foremost it lead me to the conclusion that people arent all that different, women&men both included. Evolutionarily speaking we're not too far from where we were when we lived in tribes and many of us barely lived meal to meal. It gave me the insight that men&women are alot like me, each other, and everyone else. Whatever actions they were taking were with the same goals I usually have in mind. We all want to fuck, eat, have peace, be violent, love, be loved, all those things that are on Maslows hierarchy of human needs. Not only did that help me understand them, it helped me not hate them. I genuinely enjoy interacting with people now and can keep up with fast socially intelligent women and protect myself from social peril as well as persue my goals. It's good!

Anyway, I suggest you find and read a few datasheets here. There is one on body language and vocal tonality. I'm on phone or I would type out more and find those for you. I truely hope that you become more interested in people and learn to forgive them for being the animals that they are. That helped me a lot. I've known trauma and that simple but potent hang up stunted a lot of my personal growth for too long. Another was that when I became a man I no longer had anyone to blame but myself, not the system, not my parents, not my friends or even the time period I was born. I had to truely assume the role of the master of my own domain and destiny. The amount of responsibility is immense but intensely rewarding.

Hope to see you around friend, I will check this thread later.

[Waqqle]

(12-17-2018 03:48 AM)Eugenics Wrote:  

You sound angry and pretty socially uncalibrated with a chip on your shoulder. I'm sorry the current state of parenting left you with a chip on your shoulder. It's time to grow up and shed your past trauma, I don't mean pretend like it didn't happen. I mean understand why it happened, how it effected you, study yourself and know yourself well with complete honesty about your life,flaws,etc and where you find yourself now. If you're unable to give yourself such intense self-analysis you should do what it takes to get to that point.

I don't think I'm not angry or emotional about it (though I certainly was for a long time) apart from a general feeling of frustration with the apathy of my average countryman which makes it highly unlikely, at least in my view, that anything significant will change for the better within my own lifetime.

If I am bitter about anything, which I could be, I think it is not about anything that happened to me personally so much as it the injustice of it all and the apathy of a society which is too large for me to move to action all by myself.

Quote:

Our whole educational system in general is basically a lost cause at this point, you probably know better than anyone. This whole post reads like you're still bitter and having issues, excuse me if that's not the case or are not looking for advice but I have some tips for you if it is.

I tend to agree with you about the education system. I can't say that there are not things that are still difficult sometimes but who in this world coasts through life without any difficulties at all? So I don't really see reason to be too bent out of shape about that. If anything, it can just be sort of isolating as they are not the sorts of difficulties which one could bring up normally without everything getting awkward so I sort of just have to bear it alone and try not to let on that there is anything wrong. That's life though. Others have surely suffered worse things.

I tried not to sound bitter or angry as I really do not think I am beyond what any sane person would be knowing how much so many people suck. I actually tried to throw in some dark humor here and there but it can be hard to get that across through text alone. I guess it is nigh impossible to not sound bitter or angry with such a subject as any decent person will likely feel at least a twinge of bitterness when even thinking about it, which is partly why I hesitated to bring it up.

As for advice, things can always be improved and so helpful advice and information is always good.

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If you're very intelligent you need to be socialized, often, and with purpose. There are very strong logical reasons people exhibit certain behavior even in very basic social interactions. When you have the building blocks, you can start parsing all this data you recieve every day. Social experiments can be fun and interesting. You need to gather data though and interpret that data. You also need the tools, schematics, and framework to interpret that social data. It's never easy and you will make a lot of mistakes along the way and probably embarrass yourself many times but as long as you keeo trying you will see results.

I agree and that's the program I put myself on starting around my third year of high school. Now, I do not have any issue dealing with people unless they are true dirtbags the likes of which anyone would have difficulty with. If any problems persist from my childhood, I would say that it is the sort of dull, aching emotional discomfort that comes with knowing that you lost a substantial amount of time that you will never get back, the good memories you could have had during that time will never exist, and that the relationships you could have formed during that time will never happen and those people instead formed those relationships without others and without you. But that is the sort of thing I would feel whether I were autistic or not.

Social experiments are definitely fun, especially when the risks are very low and you will never see the people again. This is one reason I love traveling so much. It provides many opportunities for this. I've gone by 5 different names in different parts of the world and gone so far as to recreate myself in different countries just to see if I could pull it off, what would happen, and/or if I could make some huge leap in progress by all at once shedding everything I was at home and adopting a new persona in another country. To me, it felt like wearing so many masks that I eventually forgot what my original face looked like and playing so many roles that I eventually forgot which one I had been born into. In that way, it was very exciting and freeing and I learned a great many things that I likely would not have had I remained stagnant.

I have also found the travel can be great for a guy like me because I can buy a culture and etiquette guide from a bookstore when visiting another country and memorize most of the important interpersonal stuff I need to function in that society. Best part is, if I still make a mistake, unlike in the US where I am expected to just get it, I usually am given a pass as a weird foreigner who is still learning but clearly making an effort to assimilate.

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Something that helped me IMMENSELY was game. In some ways game is a toolset that you use to interpret obfuscated social data correctly, react to it in regards to your goals/needs whether that be using nuanced language that leaves its literal meanings by the wayside, understanding body language, knowing what eye contact means, when to apply intent to peoples words through tonalitu. It actually goes pretty deep what is known or very suspected about all the nuances in human communication. Luckily you're in the right place looking.

Same here man. I do not think it would be an exaggeration to say that, at at least one point, knowledge of the existence of game and the red pill probably saved my life. Just the idea that social skills could be consciously learned was life changing when it first occurred to me (when I was reading Neil Strauss' book as I recall).

I agree with your explanation of game. That's how I see it as well. In a way, it is like having the cheat codes for the game of human interaction or like being an automotive engineer as opposed to someone who just drives a car habitually without thinking very much about it but really has no idea how it works under the hood and would not be able to identify a problem of fix it if something were to go wrong somewhere.

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I've long suspected that I am somewhere on the autism spectrum, where that is in relation to yours I don't know. I do know that up until about 3 years ago I did not understand social ques barely at all, body language didn't make much sense to me, tone was lost on me, nuanced social interactions like "doubetalking", flirting, or anything that required "reading in between the lines" was basically lost on me. Even still sometimes I miss things. I had to learn all this stuff from the ground up, luckily for me Ive always been a curious soul and had no problem embarassing myself (i actually dont feel this way) myself by asking questions. I took a lot of theory, psychology, and instructions from this very forum as well as my own reading and applied it, aggregated data, and formed learned strategies that eventually assimilated into my personality and alleviated most of my social woes and functionally cured me of whatever it is that made all of those things hard for me. If you work hard and are genuinely curious about how these things work there is no limit to what you can do. Eventually you may even surpass your peers in social aptitude because you know the logical reasons why something happens and arr equipped to navigate those situations often for your benefit, whereas others mainly rely on instinct and are easily fooled/manipulated when confronted by a person with superior instinct and/or knowledge. Many people simply aren't as interested in people.

You could be. Maybe you just slipped through the cracks somehow like I did (though, hopefully you didn't wind up in SpEd for it). I didn't find out until I was 23 and it took being in the Army for someone to finally look into it.

It is great to hear that another possibly autistic guy out there did not swallow the Kool Aid and accept that he would just never be functional. I definitely agree with you that it is entirely possible for an autistic guy who sets himself to it can surpass his non-autistic peers in terms of social prowess. I believe I have actually reached that point myself after having studied and practiced game for around 11 years now. I think that one thing that could be considered an advantage is that people who never have major trouble with social skills early in life tend to never think about them and so tend to reach a plateau at a certain point where they are good enough and then go no further whereas people who did have major problems early on have always had to think about social skills and improve them intentionally (assuming that they took the initiative as you seem to have done). Because of this, though they start slow, these individuals can go beyond the plateau that non-game aware people hit simply because they can't see any reason to ever stop.

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One large piece of this puzzle for me was evolutionary psychology. It's not extremely popular here but is the key to much of my understanding. First and foremost it lead me to the conclusion that people arent all that different, women&men both included. Evolutionarily speaking we're not too far from where we were when we lived in tribes and many of us barely lived meal to meal. It gave me the insight that men&women are alot like me, each other, and everyone else. Whatever actions they were taking were with the same goals I usually have in mind. We all want to fuck, eat, have peace, be violent, love, be loved, all those things that are on Maslows hierarchy of human needs. Not only did that help me understand them, it helped me not hate them. I genuinely enjoy interacting with people now and can keep up with fast socially intelligent women and protect myself from social peril as well as persue my goals. It's good!

I enjoyed reading the Rational Male series by Rollo Tomassi as well as the books that have been written by Jack Donovan. I think they cover a lot of what you are getting at.

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Anyway, I suggest you find and read a few datasheets here. There is one on body language and vocal tonality. I'm on phone or I would type out more and find those for you. I truely hope that you become more interested in people and learn to forgive them for being the animals that they are. That helped me a lot.

Way ahead of you. I was lurking on this forum for about 3 years before I actually joined it. A lot of great stuff has been posted here. I especially like the country and city-specific breakdowns. I usually do not read much into which bars and clubs are mentioned as I lean much more on daygame and those places are always changing but I am always interested in local cultures and social dynamics.

Hopefully, we will both be able to contribute some solid stuff going forward as well.

Quote:

I've known trauma and that simple but potent hang up stunted a lot of my personal growth for too long. Another was that when I became a man I no longer had anyone to blame but myself, not the system, not my parents, not my friends or even the time period I was born. I had to truely assume the role of the master of my own domain and destiny. The amount of responsibility is immense but intensely rewarding.

I hear you. It's tough realizing one day that you are an adult and knowing that you will never be able to legally seek out any kind of revenge against the people who wronged you, who are probably still out there doing to others what they did to you, and that no one will ever accept any excuses from you. In a way though, I kind of see that last part as an advantage. I mean, how many people are messed up psychologically well into their late twenties and early thirties because nobody ever really held them responsible for their own actions or anything else and they just never learned how to be adults?

That's just another way that I think discovering game was a life changer and probably a life saver for me and a lot of other guys out there.

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Hope to see you around friend, I will check this thread later.

I hope to see you around more as well and thanks for the reply!

[Waqqle]

By the way Eugenics, what would you say was they most elusive and difficult thing for you to get a grasp of while learning game/social skills and how did you figure it out?

[Mr. D]

(12-17-2018 03:37 AM)Emancipator Wrote:  

Send them here

online Weapon X program

Yep, pretty much.

   

[chicane]

It's a real challenge these days. People with autism/Asperger's are abused much more than 40 years ago. The lack of tolerance for awkward behavior has ramped up horrendously.

I'll stick with some of my usual suggestions. Join Toastmasters. Read books on body language. Read "Neurotribes". You will need to work hard to develop compensating mechanisms for dealing with normies. Read business development books (yes, really).

Learn to juggle, it's a good way to cover up the eye contact problem.

If there's anything else I can do to help, please let me know.

[Caduceus]

(12-17-2018 01:24 PM)chicane Wrote:  

It's a real challenge these days. People with autism/Asperger's are abused much more than 40 years ago. The lack of tolerance for awkward behavior has ramped up horrendously.

There was no internet back then, and people's exposure to their habits was very minimal.

[The Beast1]

(12-17-2018 01:24 PM)chicane Wrote:  

It's a real challenge these days. People with autism/Asperger's are abused much more than 40 years ago. The lack of tolerance for awkward behavior has ramped up horrendously.

Really?

We're in a golden age of mental health treatment options.

Back 40 years ago, autists and other mental deformities were physically and mentally punished for their oddities. Parents, especially mothers were shamed for being "cold" producing their autistic children.

Parents fearing societal judgment and feeling compassion for their autists against the otherwise barbaric methods of treatment in those days took matters into their own hands. Trust me, you didn't want that either.

40 years ago, people weren't more tolerant. Autism was better hidden and people simply didn't have to deal with it. In fact, if you acted weird around a woman, you were shamed in that immediate circle and promptly kicked out. Do this in an enclosed social community like a school and you were pretty much fucked for good.

Now riddle me this autistic Alan: would you rather suffer at the hands of a paddle for your autistic bullshit or would you rather have a cute teacher who coddles your inabilities to cope with the world around?

Honestly, sometimes I think the harsh treatments we used to dole out for mild autism in the past were effective in getting autists like yourself to function in daily life. This coddling we're seeing today doesn't do any good as we can all witness the wall of text you sperged out above.

Be grateful you didn't have to deal with the treatment options back in the bloody 70s and 80s.

[Kona]

(12-17-2018 01:24 PM)chicane Wrote:  

It's a real challenge these days. People with autism/Asperger's are abused much more than 40 years ago. The lack of tolerance for awkward behavior has ramped up horrendously.

That's wrong.

You are the goose with the golden egg if you got a little autism kid these days. It's the hipsters biggest badge of honor. Every white parent under 35 at my nieces nephews schools have an autism kid and oh man they like to talk about it.

Nowadays, you look at the autism kid crookeyed, you got a meeting with the principal, and the other kid has to see a psychiatrist. The class has to make all kinds of special arrangements for little Timmy because he's special. In the old days theyd tie the autism kid down and shock him with broken light bulbs.

The reason autism rates are so high is because everybody wants the kids to have autism. It's a big attention better. Supply and demand.

I say, if you got autism, get a three legged dog, put on a flannel shirt, and go walk that fucker in downtown Seattle. When the hipster bitches come up to pet him, start talking like rain man. You"'ll be fighting to keep your dick out of their mouths.

And lastly, let's listen wise old Livia Sopranos advice:

Aloha!

[BBinger]

(12-17-2018 04:02 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(12-17-2018 01:24 PM)chicane Wrote:  

It's a real challenge these days. People with autism/Asperger's are abused much more than 40 years ago. The lack of tolerance for awkward behavior has ramped up horrendously.

Really?

We're in a golden age of mental health treatment options.

Back 40 years ago, autists and other mental deformities were physically and mentally punished for their oddities. Parents, especially mothers were shamed for being "cold" producing their autistic children.

Parents fearing societal judgment and feeling compassion for their autists against the otherwise barbaric methods of treatment in those days took matters into their own hands. Trust me, you didn't want that either.

40 years ago, people weren't more tolerant. Autism was better hidden and people simply didn't have to deal with it. In fact, if you acted weird around a woman, you were shamed in that immediate circle and promptly kicked out. Do this in an enclosed social community like a school and you were pretty much fucked for good.

Now riddle me this autistic Alan: would you rather suffer at the hands of a paddle for your autistic bullshit or would you rather have a cute teacher who coddles your inabilities to cope with the world around?

Honestly, sometimes I think the harsh treatments we used to dole out for mild autism in the past were effective in getting autists like yourself to function in daily life. This coddling we're seeing today doesn't do any good as we can all witness the wall of text you sperged out above.

Be grateful you didn't have to deal with the treatment options back in the bloody 70s and 80s.

I suspect much of the current autism boom is the result of decades of media aimed at convincing families not to raise their children. The job was outsourced to school, television, and organized activities run by committee. There's likely a biological component involved, but in an environment where socializing is constantly discouraged or minimized... the kids aren't going to socially develop.

Every kid's genetics are going to affect their potential. The job of parents is to feed the kids as much protein as they can, kick start their kid's socialization and prod them to engage in status competitions with the other kids, and drill them on the necessities of civilized living. There's many ways this has been done, but this is what parenting is. Not feeding protein leads to runts, not socializing creates losers, and failures to civilize creates outcasts (This last point to mixed results. Bad hygiene kids are on the omega track. Kids who artfully break rules are potentially on an alpha track).

Progressive Pantsuitism on every point from environmentalism (don't waste resources feeding your kids good beef and fish when you can veg them), to secular diversity-ism (break churches and communities which once were safe for free range children playing), to the media environment (why should your kids play with other children in their neighborhood when they can play with 40 year old men in panties on the internet) is hostile to raising children to their potential.

Children are fed massive alternative realities from Marvel to Pokemon with substantial noise and distracting from (and being confused with) the real world. Consider the time machine sequence in Idiocracy where their record of history has the UN un-Nazi'ing the world full of dinosaurs. How many people are growing up with the Marvel Universe history more prominent in their understanding of the world than actual history?

Whatever biological influences are contributing, the cultural environment is one hell of a fuel for the fire.

[Waqqle]

I think that, in some ways, things are better than 40 years ago but, in other ways, they are worse.

Things are better in the sense that more information exists regarding the cause(s) of autism and its accompanying issues. For example, we now know that it is mostly hereditary and also that it is primarily, at least as far as I understand, caused by an abnormality in the amygdala of the brain which is the same reason of the brain which, when abnormal in a slightly different way, produces a sociopath or psychopath. Having the information is good because people are generally less put off and disturbed by things that they understand and a problem with a clearly identifiable cause can be addressed in a targeted and systematic way.

Things are worse however in the sense that, with this increased knowledge, apathy toward the condition has also increased. When I say “apathy,” I mean that most people seem to generally less interested in teaching those children and young people with the condition social skills and ways to resolve their issues properly. This also combines with the tendency, mentioned by myself in the original post and by a couple of others here, for parents and other older people who should be helping the child to adjust and get their life under control to instead treat them either as an inconvenience to be locked away in a far away place and/or shoved off to some daycare center while the parents and everyone else go about their lives as if their weren’t a terrified child screaming for years on end for saviors who will never come as was the case in my experience or as a sort of accessory to be shown off and bragged about to win virtue and victimhood points from others but not to be helped in any way as, if the child were to become well-adjusted and functional, they would no longer be as much of a novelty.

As for punishment, I do not think that corporal punishment is intrinsically wrong or ineffective and in fact, as I said in the original post, I think I would have preferred it over the bizarre sensory and psychological torture that was doled out to me instead provided that I was also furnished with a clear explanation as to what I had done to warrant the punishment and how to correct my mistake/deficiency. A very significant problem as I see it is that I almost never understood why I was being punished and, because of this, also tended to never know when punishment was coming, how severe it would be, how long it would last, or how I could make it stop or not happen again. If any explanation was ever given, it was invariably to be so vague as to be entirely unhelpful in correcting whatever behavioral mistake I had made, sort of in the same way that “just be yourself” is entirely unhelpful advice for someone who wishes to actually learn and practice the more technical aspects of game.

Another issue that I think is often overlooked is the isolation. When you have a child who, has no memory of ever not feeling alone, abandoned, and hated and you subject them to arbitrary and weirdly sadistic punishments repeatedly without any warning or explanation over a period of several years, it is not difficult to imagine that they might come out slightly violent and maybe even psychotic. It is also not difficult to imagine that, since they have been essentially conditioned like animals to view all other people as vicious enemies who simply have not finished them off yet (from teachers who punish them for reasons they can’t understand to the parents who ignore them unless it is to use them as a tool to get attention from others and who do nothing to help them make the punishment and/or isolation stop to the wider society that, as far as they know, is on board with and in support of everything that is happening to them), they might begin to start lashing out, even violently. I suspect that a number of these autistic kids who are lashing out understand at some point that what they are doing is socially unacceptable but they see no reason to concern themselves with what society wants because the one thing they truly understand that society does not want is them so fuck society and everyone in it. That’s more or less what I thought for a while (again, this was before I discovered game and had the realization that I could actually improve my situation).

Personally, and this is just my own opinion, I think that a combination of corporal punishment and focused social skills training (game basically but for kids) would be a more sensible approach as reasonable corporal punishment for offenses that would get them into serious trouble as adults (so they should have those habits broken in childhood if possible) shows that the adult cares enough about them to actually put effort into correcting them as opposed to insidiously locking them away somewhere to be forgotten and to live with knowing that nobody will ever care about them enough to actually help them fit into a social system that they are incapable of intuitively figuring out on their own and the social skills training of course goes beyond “just be yourself” and actually gives them the tool set they need to correct the problem and make sure that they do not have to face punishment or negative reaction from others for it again in the future.

In my own case, I am well adjusted now and have no problem functioning on a high level socially but none of my issues were ever resolved before high school and, if anything, having been in SpEd not only did not help me but, due to how traumatic it was and how resentful it made me for a long time, it most likely stunted my progress and caused me to not bloom until much later than I might have been able to otherwise. Thankfully, I discovered game/social skills training about halfway through high school myself and started practicing it seriously in college (going out and talking to random strangers, doing approaches, conversation patterns, body language, etc.) which is where I made the most substantial progress. I still practice and maintain that game is something which is probably a necessity for autistic people, especially guys as guys are generally expected to take the initiative and the consequences for social mistakes are far greater for them than they are for women. In many cases, such as my own, I think that learning and teaching game can be a life changing and even life saving thing.

[chicane]

I'm betting none of the people posting actually have any experience with how Aspies were treated 40+ years ago. I lived through those times. Things have changed a lot.

[Waqqle]

(12-17-2018 10:04 PM)chicane Wrote:  

I'm betting none of the people posting actually have any experience with how Aspies were treated 40+ years ago. I lived through those times. Things have changed a lot.

Does this mean that you grew up Aspie in that era? What would you say are the most significant changes that have occurred during your lifetime?

[chicane]

(12-17-2018 10:46 PM)Waqqle Wrote:  

(12-17-2018 10:04 PM)chicane Wrote:  

I'm betting none of the people posting actually have any experience with how Aspies were treated 40+ years ago. I lived through those times. Things have changed a lot.

Does this mean that you grew up Aspie in that era? What would you say are the most significant changes that have occurred during your lifetime?

Schools are horrendously feminized. Even neurotypical boys are struggling in school today. While my school experience sucked, it's nothing like what boys are going through today. Autism is often described as having a hyper masculinized brain and schools today require a great deal of skill at reading social cues. Not only that, the penalties for getting it wrong are far more severe.

The rise of SJW culture and Politically Correct speech. Jokes that were commonplace then will get a person fired today, maybe even arrested. The punishments for not having a really good social understanding are very harsh today.

The absolute hatred of socially awkward men that has arisen, probably linked to 3rd wave feminism. Western women are complete cunts these days. Aspies today can count on being socially isolated.

The lack of fathers in families is also a huge problem. Women are really bad at dealing with children who have rational, analytical minds but lack social awareness. Without a consistent ruleset to grow up with, Aspies struggle a lot. Some of the high profile ones have gone totally batshit insane.

I grew up in the 60s & 70s. People were less quick to take serious offense. People were a lot more independent. People really were a lot more tolerant. It was a time of wonder. It was a time where being intelligent was considered a positive thing, where math and science were encouraged rather than denigrated.

There's a lot more I could say, but it's late. Be kind to the awkward, the outcasts. Correct them gently on their missteps. Making the neuroatypical outcasts and pariahs isn't going to help.

[Trumpian]

Don't resent your autism or the neurotypicals OP. They know not of what they speak.

My advice? Come out here to Asia. By Western standards, east Asians act borderline autistic. So you won't stick out much, and any eccentricities they do pick up on will just be dismissed as cultural differences.

P.S Have you considered that your struggles are more due to your intelligence than autism? If you have a top 1% IQ, other people are going to be extremely dull. There's really no overcoming that, but framing it in your mind as such will do wonders for your self esteem.

[Fortis]

I have a good friend who is an autist. His family never indulged his bullshit. His dad is old school carribean. He grew up to be pretty normal.

That's why I think the mods here shouldn't cater to autist faggotry.

[The Beast1]

(12-17-2018 11:11 PM)chicane Wrote:  

Schools are horrendously feminized. Even neurotypical boys are struggling in school today. While my school experience sucked, it's nothing like what boys are going through today. Autism is often described as having a hyper masculinized brain and schools today require a great deal of skill at reading social cues. Not only that, the penalties for getting it wrong are far more severe.

The rise of SJW culture and Politically Correct speech. Jokes that were commonplace then will get a person fired today, maybe even arrested. The punishments for not having a really good social understanding are very harsh today.

The absolute hatred of socially awkward men that has arisen, probably linked to 3rd wave feminism. Western women are complete cunts these days. Aspies today can count on being socially isolated.

The lack of fathers in families is also a huge problem. Women are really bad at dealing with children who have rational, analytical minds but lack social awareness. Without a consistent ruleset to grow up with, Aspies struggle a lot. Some of the high profile ones have gone totally batshit insane.

I grew up in the 60s & 70s. People were less quick to take serious offense. People were a lot more independent. People really were a lot more tolerant. It was a time of wonder. It was a time where being intelligent was considered a positive thing, where math and science were encouraged rather than denigrated.

There's a lot more I could say, but it's late. Be kind to the awkward, the outcasts. Correct them gently on their missteps. Making the neuroatypical outcasts and pariahs isn't going to help.

I know real autists who flail and absolutely 100% cannot fathom emotional cues. Either astoundingly brilliant in something or just a complete mess. Regardless, they have something about them that sets them apart from most of the socalled "autists" I've met out there. Probably a joie de vivre or some shit.

My opinion? You're not really autistic.

You are probably just a quiet, somewhat passive guy who sort of floated under the radar for many years. Not really driven, but not aimlessly passing through life. Since you were just a soft spoken guy, people really didn't have an opinion of you since you didn't bother them.

Now you're armed with a flimsy new high functioning autism diagnosis and some Redpill terms that you can swing around for why the world is difficult for you.

Unpopular opinion: high functioning autists really just need a swift kick in the ass from time to time.

[Waqqle]

(12-17-2018 11:17 PM)Trumpian Wrote:  

Don't resent your autism or the neurotypicals OP. They know not of what they speak.

My advice? Come out here to Asia. By Western standards, east Asians act borderline autistic. So you won't stick out much, and any eccentricities they do pick up on will just be dismissed as cultural differences.

Thanks man, I appreciate it.

I actually did go to Asia when I turned 18 and did all of my university studies in the Philippines. Could not get out of my hometown fast enough. The Philippines and Korea are where I was really socialized and had the majority of my social skill breakthroughs. I definitely agree that Asia is an easier place to fit in as an autistic person with an average-high IQ as the culture is such that most everyone is more or less on the same page as far as what is and is not acceptable, so much so that you can read the rules out of a guidebook, whereas, in the West and especially the US, all the people are special snowflakes that each come with their own sets of rules which you just have to intuitively figure out and, as chicane mentioned, the consequences for making mistakes are often serious and are only becoming more so as time goes on. It also helps that Asian countries tend to have a strong friend circle culture which can make it easier to fit in and establish yourself as a normal member of society there.

In Asia, I found that I could get a pass for most mistakes as a foreigner who is still learning but showing genuine effort whereas I would generally get no such pass in the US, thus making the learning process in the US more grueling.

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P.S Have you considered that your struggles are more due to your intelligence than autism? If you have a top 1% IQ, other people are going to be extremely dull. There's really no overcoming that, but framing it in your mind as such will do wonders for your self esteem.

I have considered that actually. I have even considered that HFA (High-Functioning Autism) might not even be a real thing but I doubt that is the case as I do not think I would have had the issues I have if it were not and, when I explained my issues, past, and everything else to the Army psychiatrist, he made it clear to me that the experiences I was describing to him were not typical of the general populace and were very characteristic of what he would see in an autistic person, so much so that he eventually diagnosed me and explained that there was likely also a diagnosis back when I was a child that nobody mentioned to me as it is not normal protocol to put a child in SpEd without an official diagnosis of some kind and something like ADHD does not tend to warrant SpEd. I do not know whether that is true but, up to the point that he began explaining things to me, I had never really known the extent to which my own traits diverged from the norm. I had gone into the office thinking that I was missing a piece of my soul that everyone else had or something, not thinking I had a neurological condition.

To those who believe that physical punishment is the answer in every case, I would say to bear in mind that I was tortured and tormented all through my childhood when no excuse was acceptable (so I can't say I was exactly coddled and my parents did use corporal punishment from time to time though I would not say they were physically abusive by any stretch), bullied mercilessly and publicly pretty much all the way up until maybe the last part of senior year in high school (I broke one guy's nose with my forehead), and I served active duty in the Army where I met the standard, completed Basic Combat Training, and did all the other crap just like everyone else (less than 1% of the US population serves and only about 40% are even eligible to so it is a statistical fact that most Americans cannot withstand the level of ass kicking that I already have and still can - though there are certainly those who can withstand more as I am no Navy Seal - and I am not aversed to kicking back). If a kick in the ass was all I needed to set me on the path to success, then I don't know how many more kicks it would have taken to make me passable but that method alone clearly was not solving the problem.

I was only seeing the psychiatrist because I was at my wits end after being booted from the linguist training program I was in not because I could not learn the material (it was easy) but because the instructors (all female - again) did not like my personality, telling me at various points that I was answering questions too quickly and not giving other students time to learn, looking out the window too much (makes it easier to concentrate on what I'm hearing), being too monotoned (the language I was tasked to learn was not a tonal one), and rocking back and forth, among other things that I had no idea I was doing. One of them said to me "[My name], this is not [country name] culture or American culture. This is basic human culture" and essentially proceeded to, in not so many words, suggest that I was unfit for life. At that point, I just felt that I had done everything that any person could be reasonably expected to to get myself to a place where I could just exist in American society but that I clearly was not meant for it and that I should take myself out in a decisive fashion and, as we know, the Army does not have a great image when it comes to soldiers offing themselves so I was compelled by my superiors to go to the psychiatrist.

I enlisted in the Army thinking that I could just receive the orders, execute them in a systematic fashion, get paid, and fuck off. Maybe it was like that in the olden days but, when I was in, it was all politics, gossip, SHARP (Sexual Harassment Assault and Rape Prevention), EO (Equal Opportunity), having to navigate between male and female superiors, LGBTQAAI++x4 (I was in during the whole transgender thing. I was in when they started it and when they tossed it), etc. And that is not even mentioning the bureaucracy, the apathy, and all the other nonsense. Basically, it was a great place to go insane and/or be driven to take your own life (especially since it's the Army and you can't just walk out like a normal job). I was very disappointed as I joined to get away from the sort of social BS that had caused me to be dismissed from several other civilian jobs for "not being a good fit" (read: not being able to intuit the social environment as well as a normie) and because my problems in the Army were not a result of my being lazy, out of shape, or stupid but because of something I could not understand. Needless to say, I took my white autistic ass back to Asia as soon as I got out of the Army and I have no intention of ever settling in the US again.

All that said, I still maintain that, barring people who are genuinely and severely retarded, social skills can absolutely be learned to a high level as an autist if you go about it the right way. It's like math. Unfortunately, you can't just beat the hell out of a kid and think he's going to magically understand math because you beat him. In the same way, you can't just beat the hell out of an autistic kid and expect him to suddenly "get it" because you beat the retard out of him. You have to throw in explanations and lessons along with the beatings if you want to actually fix the problem and are not just going on a power trip, beating up children for fun.

As for the high IQ thing, I think Curse of the High IQ by Aaron Clarey has the best explanation of the situation that I have so far come across and I agree with you 100% that reframing it can only have a positive effect on self-esteem. The freaky thing is that the average IQ in the US is 90 (probably lower in the region I'm from) which means that half of the population is below that. The other half mostly do not break 110-115. I checked my range online to see how likely it was that I would bump into someone else with the same score and let's say that the result made me feel more isolated.

I don't think it comes down to IQ though so much as culture as I have historically had a much easier time assimilating into Asian societies than my own native American one and I am very much at home in most Asian societies now as an adult despite obviously not looking Asian. I think that the snowflakey sort of individualism where everyone wants to be different just for the sake of being different and where everyone wants to have some sort of trauma that they can claim to be triggered by whenever things get uncomfortable creates unnecessary confusion and I tend to prefer more coherent and stable cultures like the Philippines, Korea, Russia, Colombia (I got along well there too), etc. which, rather than trying to make everyone so different that they cannot even talk to each other, try more to get everyone on the same page so that a society and culture can actually exist.

I'm planning to ultimately immigrate to an East or Central Asian country if not Russia (I lived in the Asian part of Russia for a few months during a break from school) and have done a great deal of research into what it takes to naturalize and acquire dual citizenship in various countries. I also enjoy the languages and find them easy so I think that is the way forward for me in the long term.

*I always worry when saying anything about the difficulties I've had in my life that I might come across as someone who is seeking a shoulder to cry on or some special status. I want to reiterate that this is not the case. I'm not a victim and I don't want to be pitied. I'm a fighter and I want to win. I just sometimes feel that it's easier to ask questions online than in a therapist's office (and more convenient as well as I've got other things to do than go to the therapist). I also worry about sounding arrogant and/or coming across as being very emotional as emotional is difficult to convey through text alone. I am not saying that I have suffered more than anyone else who has ever suffered in the history of suffering. I'm just trying to address things in the most rational, unemotional, and systematic way I can.


Out of curiosity, what brought you out to Asia and which country are you in?

[Rang off the Pipe]

(12-17-2018 11:27 PM)Fortis Wrote:  

I have a good friend who is an autist. His family never indulged his bullshit. His dad is old school carribean. He grew up to be pretty normal.

That's why I think the mods here shouldn't cater to autist faggotry.

I'm not going to waste my time responding too deeply to this, but all I'm going to say is that West Indians/Caribbeanites tend to be the worst parents in regard to this kind of thing. There's a big stigma to a kid even behaving little "differently", let alone having a full-blown mental illness, in those cultures.


That being said, I think this topic is warranted. People like the OP may have it tougher with the emotional aspects of game and social cues, but there are advantages to be exploited in other ways. It's very possible to benefit from being in certain niches.

[RespirationVaginale]

(12-17-2018 02:54 AM)Waqqle Wrote:  

This of course is making no mention of how the teachers got unwilling children such as myself into the cell in the first place. Basically, the teachers (there were always multiple - and I never had a male one so I disregard any notion that women are naturally more compassionate or less violent than men), would surround, corral, and subdue me physically before taking me to the floor and sitting on me with their full bodyweight (this could be one reason for my almost pathological disdain for obesity and the "fat acceptance" movement) until, I could no longer speak or breathe and I started seeing floaters in my eyes as my vision began to fade. At that point, when I no longer was able to physically resist, I would be dragged into the cell and locked up for however long they felt like leaving me in there or until an even more unruly (and, honestly, probably mentally retarded) child would be dragged in, screaming and struggling, to replace me. A cell was almost never empty and, when it was, it didn't remain so for very long.

Women have zero empathy for socially inept men. And yes I agree that when they feel they can get some power over someone they will abuse it and savour it. But they'll usually do it only if they are sure they can get away with it (surrounded by puppy beta males / the law / etc). Women are not the poor brittle creatures that betas like to view them as. They can handle being slapped and taught lessons without issue. They know they deserved it when they get it.

[BortimusPrime]

Well, if it makes you feel any better I have a friend that works as a speech pathologist and she gets plenty of tard bites, so I wouldn't take the sadism coming from special ed workers too personally.

Making education boring and forcing the class to move at the pace of the dumbest kid is responsible for a good chunk of the "acting out" of boys. Even in regular classrooms you have a fair share of man-hater sow teachers that make it their personal mission in life to set back the bright male children as much as humanly possible.

[Waqqle]

(12-26-2018 08:08 PM)BortimusPrime Wrote:  

Well, if it makes you feel any better I have a friend that works as a speech pathologist and she gets plenty of tard bites, so I wouldn't take the sadism coming from special ed workers too personally.

Fair point. I have thought about that a lot and I don't feel that I could take it personally now since I was only ever just another number to the teachers and, in all likelihood, they have long forgotten my face and name as I have forgotten theirs. It was all just part of the system and I ran through it just like they and everyone else did. Frankly, I suspect that I am one of those people who just fell through the cracks and spend the first years of my early childhood as a kind of statistical oversight that nobody felt strongly for in either a good or bad way but saw as only, to take a line from the Matrix, the eventuality of an anomaly in what was otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While I was still a burden, my existence was not unexpected and thus I was not beyond a measure of control.

Of course this was not something I had in mind at the time when I was under stress and not thinking very clearly but, in retrospect, I was mostly grouped with children who would have likely been classified as clinically mentally retarded (IQ below 70) and some of them did bite and do other things like that. What was odd was that I and sometimes 1 other student would be in the "gifted" category (again, due to our scores on the mandatory IQ test we all had to take) but we would invariably be treated the same way as the mentally retarded students except in the event that one of us was female, in which case there was a noticeable difference in the way that said female was generally treated and how frequently they were punished, probably due to in-group preference on part of the teachers, that I was cognizant of even then.

BortimusPrime Wrote:

Making education boring and forcing the class to move at the pace of the dumbest kid is responsible for a good chunk of the "acting out" of boys. Even in regular classrooms you have a fair share of man-hater sow teachers that make it their personal mission in life to set back the bright male children as much as humanly possible.

I agree. My own experience and observation both as a student in my youth and (oh, sweet irony) as a teacher in my adulthood has led me to the same conclusion.

[BaatumMania]

High functioning Autism doesn't exist. There's a reason why 99% of people in autism documentaries happen to be white men who have the same appearance: chubby, unkempt hair and wearing bad clothes and coincidentally possessing poor social skills.

After all if everyone avoids you based off appearance then how can you practice social skills let alone socialize?

Then the isolation is further increased when they have hobbies like video games and science fiction.

In non-white communities and in poor countries usually people don't chastise you that much over appearance so that's why "autism" rarely occurs outside of western countries.


BTW - the reason why women never have "autism" is because of the pussy pedestal. A woman can be fat and ugly and yet (men and women) will still socialize with her no matter what and consequently her social skills will be fine.

[Waqqle]

(12-29-2018 01:51 AM)BaatumMania Wrote:  

High functioning Autism doesn't exist. There's a reason why 99% of people in autism documentaries happen to be white men who have the same appearance: chubby, unkempt hair and wearing bad clothes and coincidentally possessing poor social skills.

That is not a scientifically accurate statement. Autism/Aspergers/HFA(High-Functioning Autism) is a neurological condition which means that it manifests physically within the brain itself during early childhood development, and probably in the womb, primarily as a result of a hereditary genetic mutation, which is why it tends to run in families as it does in mine.

One thing I find interesting is that, while I know of at least one cousin who is officially diagnosed (and I suspect some other relatives who are not - but it is difficult to retroactively diagnose a dead person or those who are in seminaries and other places far away, particularly as I am not a medical professional), all of the people in my family have high IQs (IQ also being mostly genetic) and I do not know of any mentally retarded people in my extended family.

If it can be observed repeatedly and reliably on an MRI, it's real.

BaatumMania Wrote:

After all if everyone avoids you based off appearance then how can you practice social skills let alone socialize?

I can't speak for everyone but, you can do what I did and learn to wear a mask by looking up photos of the different facial expressions on the internet and practicing them in the mirror, measuring the angles of your face as you do so to ensure that you get them right and practice holding your facial muscles in those positions until they become sore and you memorize what each expression physically feels like so that, eventually, you can reproduce them consciously without needing to look into a mirror. I have worn so many masks that I often feel strange looking into a mirror, as if the face I wear now is not the one I was born with. Both cool and a bit unsettling at the same time.

You can also do this with vocal tones by feeling and focusing on, almost in a meditative sort of way, the physiology of your throat, mouth, lungs, etc. as you mimic each recording.

There are a limited number of vocal tones which are audible to humans and which they are physically capable of producing. Likewise, there are only 6 universal base facial expressions from which all others are derivative and they can be modeled in the same way that video game designers do to make games seem increasingly realistic to players.

https://people.ece.cornell.edu/land/OldS...tions.html

As for deeper emotions beyond solely their expression on the face, there are not truly so many of those either. Like the facial expressions they correspond to, these emotions can be studied, practiced, and for lack of a better term, faked when it is either socially advantageous to do so or when not doing so would invite some form of ostracization, scorn, or even persecution.



Essentially, you are learning expressive skills which are not dissimilar to those you might learn if you were pursuing work as a stage or film actor.

Psychopaths and sociopaths also do this which is why they are known to be charming, magnanimous, and unusually empathic despite the fact that they feel no empathy on an emotional level and even as the more malevolent of them, fully conscious of what they are doing on a cognitive level, tear their unsuspecting victims to pieces. It is also why they are known for being highly effective liars and manipulators.

One added benefit of learning these things is that it makes one more able to spot and recognize the same tricks being employed by "paths" in a similar way that a seasoned player might be able to spot and recognize certain specific game tactics and techniques being employed by another in the field. If you can identify a psycho/sociopath in this way, as well as by analyzing their behavior over time if you have been unfortunate enough to have one in your life long enough to possess such data, you can more effectively avoid them.

Frankly, I know that there are a lot of "paths" who do good things like become Navy SEALs and things like that but I would just as soon not have to roll the dice and hope that I'm dealing with one of the more altruistic and noble ones. I tend to prefer just avoiding them altogether whenever I am not forced by professional or other obligations to interact with them.

BaatumMania Wrote:

Then the isolation is further increased when they have hobbies like video games and science fiction.

Autistic people do not have a monopoly on video games or sci-fi, though we may have such a monopoly on memory sports and 4chan. When indulged in excess however, especially when at the expense of real world social interaction and social skill acquisition, they can be harmful as they would be, though admittedly most likely to a much lesser degree, to normal/neurotypical people.

BaatumMania Wrote:

In non-white communities and in poor countries usually people don't chastise you that much over appearance so that's why "autism" rarely occurs outside of western countries.

Having lived the majority of my adult life in non-white countries, much of that having been in "third world" countries, and having had the majority of my friends throughout that time be from such countries, I can assure you that other cultures are often just as petty when it comes to individuals who obviously do not fit the mold. I much prefer living outside of the West personally but is not all sunshine and rainbows all the time and I cannot deny that, if I were not a white foreigner, my situation would likely be very different. For example, parents in many parts of the world will simply try to beat the autism out of their child rather than teaching them social skills in a focused way (they do not know how to do this as they themselves never had to learn) or seeking help from a professional who can because the stigma of having such a diagnosis, particularly as it is known to be mostly hereditary, is so great as to make said parents believe that a lifetime of unexplained beatings and torment will be preferable to the chastisement and utter abandonment that they will face should society at large ever discover the truth of what they are.

If you need proof of this, just open your search engine of choice (I prefer DuckDuckGo or Qwant because screw Google) and search for "autism stigma [insert country name here]." Granted, a lot of what you are likely to find is all about the moms and how they struggle but, when the authors of articles actually care about the kids, the stories they get out of them can be downright depressing a lot of times. Not depressing because the world is mean mind you but depressing because the solution, which almost nobody seems able or willing to realize and accept, is to simply teach them in a conscious and methodical way the social skills that normal people develop and assimilate from their environment in infancy and early childhood.

BaatumMania Wrote:

BTW - the reason why women never have "autism" is because of the pussy pedestal. A woman can be fat and ugly and yet (men and women) will still socialize with her no matter what and consequently her social skills will be fine.

There are autistic women out there as many guys who have dated or attempted to date robotic monotoned females have long suspected (I think there was a thread on here about that a while back). However, only about 1/4 of autists are female and, since females are protected socially and all of the impetus is on males to initiate any form of interaction (females can initiate but they are in no way expected or pressured to as males are), the consequences of being HFA are less noticeable for females, often to the point that they can go their entire lifetimes with no awareness of the fact that they have been operating on an abnormal frequency, which is almost unthinkable for males as they would undoubtedly have faced massive difficulty from their earliest moments and not have been given a pass for most of it as a female likely would be. There are of course numerous present day examples of the undisciplined and directionless sons of single mothers and such but that is sort of another issue which is not unique to autists.