[Graft]

Gents, I'm about to turn 28 years old and the reality of my situation is beginning to become a source of frustration for me. A little background:

-I had one fairy-tale LTR that ended when I was 21, I got burned badly and I've spent nearly my entire 20's as a single man. Tons of failure in my early-mid 20's, but recently found my groove and have been bedding 7-8 range fairly consistently since. Even though I have had success recently, I still have a lot of pent up bitterness from being largely ignored and mistreated in my earlier years by substandard women. I feel like I'm behind, I should have experienced at least three or four LTRs by now, I'm only at one.

-High 200k+ income, but it's offset by extremely high lifestyle cost. I don't have the confidence to beat out 20-25 year old guys with social circle for top shelf younger women without flashing awesome travels, cool clothes, top floor apartment, cars, etc. I was briefly wealthy during the crypto boom, but that seems to have disappeared for the time being. The game is costing me a great deal of money and I won't be able to save for my future at this rate.

-Looks/muscles are going strong, I look early 20's with a great physique, no signs of aging.

-Family is weak and unsupportive. Friends seem to come and go quickly. It's highly likely that I will end up as a bitter loner if I don't get married and have children.

I've been looking for a woman to cash my chips out with, streamline my finances, travel, live with, etc. My criteria for a woman:
-Submissive, loyal, traditional, feminine
-0-3 previous sexual partners
-8 range in looks, mediterranean/latin complex, fat ass
-Genetically intelligent and good looking
-18-23 years old
-Wants to start having children by age 27

*Bonus points for family wealth

Maybe I'm too picky, but I just can't seem to get what I want. The girls I've been with have been hot and awesome in bed, but high notch counts, shitty attitudes, annoying friends, too old, etc. I'm really a stickler about age and notch count, simply because I can't have 4+ children if she slips the ring on in her 30's.

Age is the main reason I'm panicking. Even though I look young, I've been lying by a few years about my age on dating apps. I'm not sure when that number besides my name is going to consistently fuck me over. I don't imagine that when I turn 34-35 it will be acceptable for women in my target age range. I don't feel like I have too many years to pull what I want in the west.

So far I've been making a strong push with a variety of girls but they usually get dinged because of notch count or modern attitudes. I figure I only have 2-3 more years of bad luck in the west or I will have to try abroad. I keep telling myself that if nothing works out here, I can pull top quality abroad (which I am confident of), but if I don't make a killing in cryptocurrency I will probably have to scrap together a low six figure sum of money to move abroad for a couple of years, fuck up my career momentum, bring a girl back to the states etc.

I'm just not sure what to do because I have a decent shot at a 500k/year career if I grind it out in the US, but I'm fucking it up by blowing so much money to build my online brand and date top women. I'll further fuck it up if I move abroad for a year or two, who knows what will happen to my career then.

Overall I wanted to post this to vent as I don't feel like a lot of advice can be given to my unique situation but it was an important enough conundrum for me to post.

[GT777733]

You have good awareness and it sounds like you're pretty honest about your situation - so you have to pat yourself on the back for that. Some guys don't get that far.

But...

It sounds like you are at a similar place mentally as I was about a year ago - where the things you want for yourself in your head, are colliding with your actual reality, and it's creating a whole lot of panic and internal conflict (like you - I had money and success, and I started to see that there are external limitations on what I could bring into my life or create on my life, even despite the situation I was in).

Start asking yourself, based on your best knowledge, current actions/decision making, and past results - what is your current situation realistically going to bring you. All the clues are very likely already there - statistically you are most likely to get more of what you already have or something similar.

This internal questioning might involve some harsh reflection on your current beliefs, and what the world/society is vs what you want it to be. This will likely lead to you considering developing new beliefs. You are right around the age where a lot of the ideas and beliefs you developed when you were younger are being tested by real life. You're probably going to undergo a pivotal internal change - where you start replacing a lot of your idealistic thinking with reality based thinking.

You may start seeing external limitations on getting the things you want (at least in the short term), which for a person that aims for the best out of themselves, can be disheartening to accept at first.

You may have to make some lifestyle changes, or you start making some sacrifices in the things you want.

This is the upside and downside of having high standards for yourself and looking to constantly improve and work on your situation - you can sometimes only take it so far, and then things outside of your control can put limitations on you, which can make you feel depressed/frustrated.

Overall, I think some of the major conclusions I came to were:
- I won't at any stage stop pursuing the things that are important to me
- Certain things I want can be out of my control to differing extents, so I have to be prepared to change what I want (or what I'll accept) or change how I'm going about getting what I want (and even that may not result in what I want)
- I have to mentally be prepared to accept whatever situation I find myself in as long as I give my best effort
- Essentially, in order to have some mental peace, I have to be prepared practice acceptance a whole lot more than wanting constantly

This was a bit of a ramble post - but I'd just say don't be afraid to confront reality and truth. In fact, run towards it. It will be painful at first, but you will eventually level out mentally, and you can always keep adjusting until you find that sweet spot between striving vs accepting your situation. I think this is a good chance to mature and become more well rounded in a lot of ways.

One other thing is, and this sounds really virtue signally, but it's true - realise how lucky you are to be born with the opportunities you have in the West, and that not everyone in the world gets those opportunities. Focus on people and the world outside of yourself. Be grateful for everything you currently have in your life. If you can do that, it makes moving forward with a good mindset much easier.

[Leonard D Neubache]

Marriage in the first two years. Kids no later than a year after that. If not then her ovaries are going to seek other sperm donors.

Plan your timeline accordingly.

[pancakemouse]

(12-14-2018 01:35 AM)Graft Wrote:  

I'm just not sure what to do because I have a decent shot at a 500k/year career if I grind it out in the US, but I'm fucking it up by blowing so much money to build my online brand and date top women.

...how on earth are you spending enough to make a dent in a 200K/year salary on "building an online brand" and dating women?

[Montrose]

I have been married for 20 years and have 4+ kids. My 2 cents:

- lower your standards a bit for marriage. As Roosh recommends here https://www.rooshv.com/7-things-i-requir...f-my-child , marry a 7. Women lose interest in sex when they have kids, and age more quickly than you think, so an 8 is a bad investment. An 8 will always be entitled and annoying and is more likely to cheat. Take a virgin 6.5 or 7 who will be all yours.

- don’t be in a hurry. You young men considerably underestimate the success you’ll have in middle age. Trust me, you can get a very nice 20 years old girl at 40 for LTR particularly if you make 500k. I’ve seen it many times around me. Admittedly not in the US but in the Western world.

- don’t move abroad for women. Women are unreliable and not worth getting distracted from your mission and your career.

[Jozi]

More money won't help you land a girl suitable for marriage. Yes, you will have more options, but none of the options will be good enough anyway. In the end they are still women and they will disappoint you one way or another. God made it so that what we are programmed to want can never actually be achieved. We are all dogs chasing our own tails in a never ending spin until we eventually drop dead.

Women want an alpha male who can get any girl he wants, but who chooses her above all others. But of course, that frame has to be intact every second of every day for the rest of his life or she will go cheat on him or start to fantasize about a stronger man. Or he will not marry her in the first place (or cheat/divorce her later). Men want a virgin girl who loves him and only him, and who would never even imagine taking another man's seed. Both are unrealistic so neither gender will ever be truly satisfied or happy in a relationship.

What are the alternatives?

1. Single/player lifestyle (Gets boring, same as above. What we are truly seeking will never materialize. Only short term pleasure in exchange for a lot of loneliness and agony - and the pleasure you get out of each sexual encounter will diminish with the years as well)
2. Dedicate yourself to something more important than yourself (political cause, religion etc) - I don't know, it could work. I don't have enough experience to tell. But I suspect it might just be another way (like drug addiction) to mentally escape reality.

In the end we're all fucked so might as well get used to it.

(12-14-2018 02:31 AM)GT777733 Wrote:  

It sounds like you are at a similar place mentally as I was about a year ago - where the things you want for yourself in your head, are colliding with your actual reality, and it's creating a whole lot of panic and internal conflict (like you - I had money and success, and I started to see that there are external limitations on what I could bring into my life or create on my life, even despite the situation I was in).

Powerful words and very true. I think this is why 27 is the age a lot of people die or kill themselves. Quite interesting how Kurt Cobain, Elvis, Avicii, Jim Morrison and Jimmy Hendrix (among others) all died at age 27-28. All people will ruthless ambition and talent. It seems like the more ambition you have and the earlier in life you get some success, the harder this realization will hit you once you reach your late 20's.

[NoMoreTO]

You'll be alright, just keep in mind that you might just not get everything you want. Try and enjoy what you have.


I remember the bitterness towards women for being elusive in my younger days, now I just enjoy them when I have em'. As long as shes' not a slut

[astro]

You have right numbers in certain aspects, and wrong elsewhere. I was making bank between a business and another job, but I was constantly stressed on time. Why have a bunch of money and not enjoy it? So I have a nest egg and sold off my business equity and work in a job that pays similar to what you are making now, but I absolutely love it. I am 37, girlfriend is... lol I forget. 25 or 26. I met her about a couple years ago and we have a kid. That’s where your numbers are wrong... I would say pursue your career, but save some damned money. It’ll come in handy when you want to slow down.

[John Dodds]

Are guys in the west still thinking of getting married?
Hell no, it's all in her favour, pump and dump.

[Oak]

Read the older guys (40+) thread.

(12-14-2018 01:35 AM)Graft Wrote:  

I don't have the confidence to beat out 20-25 year old guys with social circle for top shelf younger women without flashing awesome travels, cool clothes, top floor apartment, cars, etc.

You need to be careful about using money and lifestyle to attract an LTR. The foundation of the relationship should be raw attraction to who you are. Personally I take it to an extreme and lie about how wealthy I am. It's a shit test. I just like the confirmation that they would still be obsessing over me if I was poor.

In the west, finding the right girl will have a lot to do with luck. You need to accept that you may not find her. Quality girls are out there, but they are in very short supply.

[RDF]

I always enjoy your posts & perspective, but I think you're overthinking a bit here. If you look early 20s with a good physique, make >$200k on the path to half a mil, and are consistently pulling hot girls, you don't have much to worry about. Time isn't going to run out on you quite yet.

What I would note is that your criteria is pretty restrictive. A combo of top-shelf exotic looks and a very traditional mindset is fucking tough to find anywhere, let alone in NYC. If you haven't found somebody who comes close to fitting this criteria in New York, it may be worth your time to take a several week trip to someplace like southern/central Spain, where you're much more likely to meet a girl who fits. Obviously social circle is key in those places, but you can take a short trip as a test run and then decide if you want to really pursue it further.

Interestingly, my ideal criteria is almost identical to yours, but I am aware that I will likely have to compromise on some aspects. If you were to compromise eventually, most likely it would be the top-shelf looks, since you mention that age/notch count are of particular importance. Just keep that in mind if you meet a girl who fits those criteria, but happens to be a 7.

[RDF]

(12-14-2018 02:51 AM)Jozi Wrote:  

We are all dogs chasing our own tails in a never ending spin until we eventually drop dead.

(12-14-2018 02:51 AM)Jozi Wrote:  

In the end we're all fucked so might as well get used to it.

(12-14-2018 02:51 AM)Jozi Wrote:  

I think this is why 27 is the age a lot of people die or kill themselves. Quite interesting how Kurt Cobain, Elvis, Avicii, Jim Morrison and Jimmy Hendrix (among others) all died at age 27-28. All people will ruthless ambition and talent. It seems like the more ambition you have and the earlier in life you get some success, the harder this realization will hit you once you reach your late 20's.

   

Damn bro, that is a record amount of depressing shit in one post. I feel bad for you if you really think this way about life.

[Day Game Bang]

Damn a 28 year old is panicking about not being in a LTR/marriage?! I'm over 30 and under 40...in between 32 to 37 years old -- and I'm very worried.

I don't think I will get married as long as I'm in the USA.

[lunchmoney]

(12-14-2018 10:59 AM)RDF Wrote:  

A combo of top-shelf exotic looks and a very traditional mindset is fucking tough to find anywhere, let alone in NYC. If you haven't found somebody who comes close to fitting this criteria in New York, it may be worth your time to take a several week trip to someplace like southern/central Spain, where you're much more likely to meet a girl who fits. Obviously social circle is key in those places, but you can take a short trip as a test run and then decide if you want to really pursue it further.

100% agree with this. As you approach your 30s, you will find that your criteria, especially in Tier 1 U.S cities will be more challenging to find. Sure, you will meet women that check some (if not most) of the boxes you listed, but you have to prioritize which are non-negotables, and which are nice to haves. You are the catch, not the woman.

[Jozi]

(12-14-2018 02:06 PM)lunchmoney Wrote:  

100% agree with this. As you approach your 30s, you will find that your criteria, especially in Tier 1 U.S cities will be more challenging to find. Sure, you will meet women that check some (if not most) of the boxes you listed, but you have to prioritize which are non-negotables, and which are nice to haves. You are the catch, not the woman.

That's easy to tell yourself but in reality he isn't. Fact is any 7+ woman can have practically any man they want. Not for the long term, but they will never understand that anyway, or care (until they are about to hit the wall - or even far after they've hit it).

[Jozi]

Delete (double post)

[Day Game Bang]

(12-14-2018 02:06 PM)lunchmoney Wrote:  

(12-14-2018 10:59 AM)RDF Wrote:  

A combo of top-shelf exotic looks and a very traditional mindset is fucking tough to find anywhere, let alone in NYC. If you haven't found somebody who comes close to fitting this criteria in New York, it may be worth your time to take a several week trip to someplace like southern/central Spain, where you're much more likely to meet a girl who fits. Obviously social circle is key in those places, but you can take a short trip as a test run and then decide if you want to really pursue it further.

100% agree with this. As you approach your 30s, you will find that your criteria, especially in Tier 1 U.S cities will be more challenging to find. Sure, you will meet women that check some (if not most) of the boxes you listed, but you have to prioritize which are non-negotables, and which are nice to haves. You are the catch, not the woman.

The year I turned 30, I started having to lie about my age to women. Back then I could still pass for a 22 year old fresh out of university. Most people thought I was 22-23.

Now that I am mid 30's, I say 25 or 27. Good genetics, regular exercise and proper diet help me look youthful and still able to pursue women in their 20's.

[Laner]

I don't care what anyone says, banging women you like gets very expensive. I know all too well, the same business acumen I use to keep my money flowing is the same brain that builds my brand for fucking women. As one part of the lifestyle grows, so do the others.

Unmarried men in the their 40's who decide to bach it forever seem to have triggers where they start to accrue lots of wealth. Some live in little apartments in good areas close to work and food and barely spend any of their money. The classic 'Rich Uncle' types. Others, and I know these guys, are making millions and smoking crack in the offices at 3 in the afternoon with two escorts on their way over. No kids, no ex wife, no family for the most part. They one day realized that life is short, money is awesome but a curse, and if they weren't working they would be dead. They talk openly about guys they know who die of a heart attack at the end of a line of blow with a hooker on their dick.

Part of me thinks you are insightful enough to feel the biological clock. In hindsight, I had one but I was good at ignoring it. I fucked up and had kids too late at 35. Some guys agree with me, others do not. But in my own life, I wish I had started a family at 30 instead of using those last 5 years to bang more pussy, do more partying, stave off responsibility.

Everyone is different, and if you feel you should be settling down, then do it. Put that plan into action. And I also agree 100% about finding a low notch 7 with a body that will age well and has a happy gene with loving parents. Going shopping in the 3rd world for a wife will not be a quick mission unless you are taking an illiterate orphan girl back with you.

[lunchmoney]

(12-14-2018 03:22 PM)Jozi Wrote:  

(12-14-2018 02:06 PM)lunchmoney Wrote:  

100% agree with this. As you approach your 30s, you will find that your criteria, especially in Tier 1 U.S cities will be more challenging to find. Sure, you will meet women that check some (if not most) of the boxes you listed, but you have to prioritize which are non-negotables, and which are nice to haves. You are the catch, not the woman.

That's easy to tell yourself but in reality he isn't. Fact is any 7+ woman can have practically any man they want. Not for the long term, but they will never understand that anyway, or care (until they are about to hit the wall - or even far after they've hit it).

In reality he is. The type of woman who doesn't value him is the same type who will divorce him and take half his money if he is seen chasing her, not the other way around.

[Kid Twist]

(12-14-2018 02:49 AM)Montrose Wrote:  

I have been married for 20 years and have 4+ kids. My 2 cents:

- lower your standards a bit for marriage. As Roosh recommends here https://www.rooshv.com/7-things-i-requir...f-my-child , marry a 7. Women lose interest in sex when they have kids, and age more quickly than you think, so an 8 is a bad investment. An 8 will always be entitled and annoying and is more likely to cheat. Take a virgin 6.5 or 7 who will be all yours.

- don’t be in a hurry. You young men considerably underestimate the success you’ll have in middle age. Trust me, you can get a very nice 20 years old girl at 40 for LTR particularly if you make 500k. I’ve seen it many times around me. Admittedly not in the US but in the Western world.

- don’t move abroad for women. Women are unreliable and not worth getting distracted from your mission and your career.

How do those statements jibe, Montrose? I think you are saying something similar to this, or a general piece of advice, I just want you to clarify.

[Kid Twist]

(12-14-2018 03:54 PM)Laner Wrote:  

Part of me thinks you are insightful enough to feel the biological clock. In hindsight, I had one but I was good at ignoring it. I fucked up and had kids too late at 35. Some guys agree with me, others do not. But in my own life, I wish I had started a family at 30 instead of using those last 5 years to bang more pussy, do more partying, stave off responsibility.

Everyone is different, and if you feel you should be settling down, then do it. Put that plan into action. And I also agree 100% about finding a low notch 7 with a body that will age well and has a happy gene with loving parents. Going shopping in the 3rd world for a wife will not be a quick mission unless you are taking an illiterate orphan girl back with you.

Isn't that entirely dependent on if you find someone suitable to marry at that time?

I like your last paragraph, seems wise.

[Graft]

(12-14-2018 10:59 AM)RDF Wrote:  

I always enjoy your posts & perspective, but I think you're overthinking a bit here. If you look early 20s with a good physique, make >$200k on the path to half a mil, and are consistently pulling hot girls, you don't have much to worry about. Time isn't going to run out on you quite yet.

What I would note is that your criteria is pretty restrictive. A combo of top-shelf exotic looks and a very traditional mindset is fucking tough to find anywhere, let alone in NYC. If you haven't found somebody who comes close to fitting this criteria in New York, it may be worth your time to take a several week trip to someplace like southern/central Spain, where you're much more likely to meet a girl who fits. Obviously social circle is key in those places, but you can take a short trip as a test run and then decide if you want to really pursue it further.

Interestingly, my ideal criteria is almost identical to yours, but I am aware that I will likely have to compromise on some aspects. If you were to compromise eventually, most likely it would be the top-shelf looks, since you mention that age/notch count are of particular importance. Just keep that in mind if you meet a girl who fits those criteria, but happens to be a 7.

Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled with what I have. My situation is pretty close to a 10/10 for bachelor life in NYC. Tons of options, hookups, leads etc. I'd be down with a 7 too, but keep in mind I think my SMV is a higher rating.

If there's one thing I can tell myself to make myself feel better, it's that it really isn't me. Women in my target market aren't waiting for some handsome jacked rich chad to sweep them off their feet. I do a ton of creeping on social media and these girls are pretty much always single-never devoting their love to a guy in public. It's always like pulling teeth to get these girls to pay attention to you for more than two days a week in between their job/school/friends/traveling/whatever.

The cultural rot has been talked about a lot, but it's a lot more interesting to look at when I became a high SMV guy. The girls aren't putting me off for LTRs with other high SMV guys, they are just chasing career and thrills. If every girl was in an LTR by her 24th birthday, I'd probably be with a 9.

Someone said not to move abroad for a woman, but in about 3 years time I need to come to terms with the reality of the situation: I probably won't find a woman with my criteria who wants an LTR/marriage at this point in her life. I can definitely get a late 20's chick with notch count for an LTR, but that's not what I want. She won't give me enough fertile years for my children. If I go abroad, I'm very confident that I'll be able to pull a top shelf chick, top tier looks, low notch count, etc. If I could pull this many hotties in the US, Mexico/Ukraine/Serbia etc will be a layup for my criteria.

Back to the path to 500k, It's possible to get there in 10-20 years, but highly unlikely unless I give up the bachelor life, move to the suburbs and put in 50- 60 hours/week. I've been dicking around too much, chasing these hoes, dealing with multiple plates, blowing so much money. I truly need a teammate if I want to get ahead in life.

I can already see my future if nothing plays out: a washed up bachelor, bitter, sexually frustrated, lonely, and possibly failing my career for not focusing.

[Truth Teller]

(12-14-2018 01:35 AM)Graft Wrote:  

-High 200k+ income, but it's offset by extremely high lifestyle cost. I don't have the confidence to beat out 20-25 year old guys with social circle for top shelf younger women without flashing awesome travels, cool clothes, top floor apartment, cars, etc. I was briefly wealthy during the crypto boom, but that seems to have disappeared for the time being. The game is costing me a great deal of money and I won't be able to save for my future at this rate.

This really just sounds like a mindset issue. From my outside perspective, it looks like you're concerned that you're not intrinsically good enough for the most attractive women. Hence your lack of confidence without all the flashiest things.

I'd encourage you to do two things:

1. Look at your successes in life as a function of your own ability.

2. Leverage that into an identity that can attract women without all the flashy accoutrements.

I'm a graduate student. I have a pathetic salary and no ability to afford things that you probably don't give a second thought about. Maybe it's just the way I am, but I've never seen possessions as what attracts the best quality women. Gold diggers? Sure. But those aren't the sorts of women I'd want in my life.

[griffinmill]

Quote:

Now that I am mid 30's, I say 25 or 27. Good genetics, regular exercise and proper diet help me look youthful and still able to pursue women in their 20's.

This is advice not often given by those older players; make sure you look good into your older years if you're determined to remain a bachelor. I'm 40 but could pass for 30. In fact, I told a recent hookup I was 28 and she never asked any questions. I have never drank, never smoked, and have been going to the gym regularly for 20 years. Now, at 40, I'm thankful I had the sense to live a healthy lifestyle.

[Day Game Bang]

Serious question: Since I'm in my mid-30's and very single (just been doing casual hookups for a long time), is it even worth to look into a LTR or marriage? I'm in a part of the U.S. which is shitty for dating and women.

I've looked into career options in NYC/Miami and overseas, but nothing has materialized yet. Even if I relocate to a city/country which has better quality, feminine, low-notch count women -- I feel too old for marriage.