[Noir]

@Gunwitch, thanks for dropping by. Your material helped me a reasonable amount, as did your posts on the old seduction forums (2005-2009).

I have written this before and will write it again.

Men are visual, women are not.

Women are attracted to confidence and resources. Men are attracted to beauty.

Men obtain their confidence through resources, looks and status. It can be easy to rationalize the one vs the other.

The posts made here are absolute garbage and excuse making.

Look through my past posts where I have fucking dissected the shit out of the looks/money vs game argument. Both have merit.

Looks don't even come close because once you are fuckable 7+ then that's it.

Women don't rate men on a sliding scale of 1-10. It's binary. Either he is hot or he is not. It's the confidence that is the differentiator and game is exhibiting confidence and pushing the right buttons.

I wrote in the past month about how I live with a model 9 who has his own portfolio. He is fucking handsome. 185cm, chiseled jaw, blue eyes, you name it.

I am 174cm and reasonably attractive but on paper, he is more attractive.

This is inconsequential. If you look like a turd rolled in glitter, then sure, but if you're past a certain threshold, it doesn't fucking matter.

From April - October (I have uninstalled Tinder), I banged more girls than he did on Tinder. My pro photos put me at a point on the scale below him. He matched more women but the ones we both matched, I got their numbers and took it from there and he didn't. The quality was the same.

You're just talking about getting exposure and I am talking about conversion.

If you match 1000 girls and fuck 20 yet I match 500 and fuck 40, then who is actually getting more out of it? Time vs effort too.

Then consider I ain't relying on my looks because it sets you up for perpetual state of failure. When your looks don't work and you can't do shit, then what?

Model 9, one of my best mates, was hitting on my current girlfriend, at a coffee shop. He sees her and I encourage him so he goes for it. She ignored his advances and asked her manager to introduce me.

Why?

Because I have presence and confidence to intrigue her.

I knew she wanted it because when she looked at me I communicated that I want her, without fucking moving.

I wrote my number on a napkin and gave it to her after the manager said 'you two should date'.

Mr Model was just watching this, as we sat together.

Then I had the balls to show up the same day for a date, invade her personal space and convert that shit.

My girlfriend is a solid 8, a 9 on a good day.

On paper, I look like a 7.5 - 8.

Peel away the layers, I am a fucking 10 because my shit is in order and I am independent. I don't need a woman. She knows this which adds pressure on her to step up.

This has happened countless times. Festivals, bars, clubs, shopping malls, Tinder, online, whatever - you name it. Me vs 'hotter guys'.

Women want this, they want to prove they deserve your dick and earn it. This is what game helps with.

You're giving the example of who a woman would rather fuck. Bullshit. You ain't a woman and you can't decide because it's not an on off switch. Women come around to fucking a guy.

You jump in and push the right buttons.

I can't believe we are even discussing this in 2018 on this forum.

The proof is in the pudding.

You're gonna jump out and tell me that I am an 8 and therefore prove your point.

I was overweight and was banging loads. More than now.
I was unemployed and banging more than now.
I was sleeping on my cousins couch and I was pulling girls in 45 minutes from nearby bars.

You both have merit and there's a balance but for some reason you guys demarcate a line in the sand and get your swords out to prove that you are correct.

It's both.

Fucking hell, you could just plow girls with booze and fuck them if you were really so inclined and it would balance out this whole argument.

I have spoken to hundreds upon hundreds of women and banged dozens of them in 2018 alone. The grand majority of them are not on Tinder or online dating apps.

If you're a 6 and above then your confidence and presence will do you better than sheer looks.

This forum gets tiring with this shit, there's more to this than Tinder.

If you look like that mugshot then yeah, fucking work something out so you don't look like you live on the streets.

Once you reach a point where you ain't ugly, then it doesn't matter because you're either hot or you're not and past that initial 'thought' game lets you manipulate this. It gets them curious and that's the hook that matters.

If you can convert (game) then that's it.

[Gunwitch]

(11-08-2018 11:29 PM)Noir Wrote:  

@Gunwitch, thanks for dropping by. Your material helped me a reasonable amount, as did your posts on the old seduction forums (2005-2009).
-
If you're a 6 and above then your confidence and presence will do you better than sheer looks.

This forum gets tiring with this shit, there's more to this than Tinder.

Thanks for the compliment man!

On the rating thing, yeah even more so you don't even have to be a 6 or any hard rating or average or number or anything. I mean most women don't at all "rate" guys vs themselves. This isn't a video game to them where they have a threshold or anything.

What a lot of guys don't get is that she is an organic being with her own agenda and desires. Women have a fuckin Y chromosome which contains a LOT more data than men. We are all so much more alike in our desires and abilities than women it's absurd. Not science here but in a nuttshell there are 5 guys and 40 women when it comes to personality and psychology of selecting someone to fuck.

Combine that with the fact that its ALL ABOUT HER to her. She isn't going "hmm I'm a 9 and hes a 4" at any cognitive level.

Combined with eye of the beholder, when people develop their facial features it's rolled in with their genetic code for facial preferences. One womans 10 is another womans 7 pure looks wise.

You about nailed it though by saying a guy just needs to be a 6, but thats just to volume game with no skills a guy whos a 6 can go find 10s who think THEY are 6s who find him by chance to be an 8!

No chicks I fuck go "wow you're so fuckin ugly I can't believe I did that!" haha. If I really question them in LTRs and all they'll be like "no you aren't my usual type but you have a perfect nose I thought it was cute" "you have sexy penetrating eyes" "I liked your ass" or some sort of justification. Something that says "yeah I like mens looks too I am a modern american woman who slaps male stripper asses, i'm just like one of the boys!" mentality, but really they are just infatuated with me and then sexually compliant regardless of my looks.

The only time i'm SURE I got rejected on my looks is if I cold approach a lone chick in daygame and she totally freezes me out and walks off. That's how good my approach and hook material is at this point I can't accept that it isn't a looks thing.

But yeah this isn't all quantifiable even in social circle game to looks matching at all, being tastes vary so much, combined with the chicks not even knowing what they ARE. So many hot women think they are average. Combined with so many super hot women who know it, being former pageant chicks, homecoming queens, college cheerleaders, escorts, cam girls who've had enough of that, theyve intellectually on purpose eschewed dating "good looking people", women can get past looks on purpose and go for a brain, unlike most men. Some are upwardly mobile intellectual professionals who are bored with life and don't meet anyone who thinks or talks different or emotionally stimulates them in any way and just want some dick.

Lots of women are fucking lots and lots of men for different reasons. Being the one in their face presenting that ALONE is why cold approach works. With no game! Anyone who says otherwise just reeks of not having given it a fair shake at all to me, because it's so obvious so fast even when young with no game that you can't NOT get addicted. Like you said Noir "If you can convert (game) then that's it."

Tinder is warping these young guys brains before they ever get started.

Got guys losing their virginity at 25!? Average person has .7 offline friends!?

Come on I wasn't even in the game or possessing of any skills and already fucked 4 chicks by the time I was 18.

Guys are just WAY too wrapped up in justification of not making effort because of LMS theory these days. Like you said can't believe it in 2018 this is a conversation.

Maybe an age thing, being a Generation X guy who fucks teenage girls here and there still, they are so fuckin easy I don't know how these guys are fucking it up!

Getting pussy from cold approach in 2018 is WAY easier than say 2001, ASD is fairly weak in these youngsters. Guys need to get the fuck off Tinder for a start if they aren't good looking. More so though arguing and debating why cold approach sucks is counter productive for them as well. If you think that then go do your social circle and Tinder or whatever and master it! Thousands of posts on a forum about why pickup sucks is a waste of your time.


Gun

[Gunwitch]

(11-08-2018 08:52 AM)tr1cky Wrote:  

Gaming chicks at the hospital cafeteria LOL! Gotdamn I can't say I've ever thought of that. But I have gotten the shakes as I walk past dime after dime in their nurse scrubs.

Do you usually game the nurses or the visitors? Or both?

I posted it in the other thread to avoid derailing this one any further:

thread-71139...pid1884026


Gun

[chvrches]

(11-09-2018 04:37 AM)Gunwitch Wrote:  

Getting pussy from cold approach in 2018 is WAY easier than say 2001, ASD is fairly weak in these youngsters. Guys need to get the fuck off Tinder for a start if they aren't good looking. More so though arguing and debating why cold approach sucks is counter productive for them as well. If you think that then go do your social circle and Tinder or whatever and master it! Thousands of posts on a forum about why pickup sucks is a waste of your time.

Gun

Can you explain why it's easier in 2018?

In my opinion, it's harder for a few reasons. First of all today we have a pump and dump culture like never seen before, and it has lead to girls being crazier, more damaged, depression, trust issues etc. For this reason, i disagree with it being "easier" now and especially because most of these girls already have that shitty unrealistic tinder ideal look idea on their brain (trust me if she owns a phone or is on dating apps) she will care about looks, atleast girls in the range im seeking which is 18-22. Especially in the swipe culture we live in now. It's shallow as fuck. I think it has a lot to do with young girls obsessing over social proof, and how will she show you to her friend group if you're not up to the "tinder" standards? What will her friends think about you. Obviously some girls are more shallow than others, but i find alot of the young girls to be shallow and have deluded idea about looks.

Sure if you cold approach you will stand out from the 99% of guys that don't, but that doesn't necessarily mean you can progress any further. About the trust issues, pump and dump has lead us to, some girls will think you're weird for cold approaching since everything is done through either social circle now or nightgame. At least in Scandinavia things are like that. Flake rates are high with cold approach since this cold approach thing is "out of the ordinary" where i live. People would rather meet online, which is bullshit in my opinion.

Im not arguing about whether looks matter or not, i agree with everything you've said, but i need to know why it's easier when you have these new problems you didn't have in 2001 for instance.

[fardowsagarcia]

If Trump loses, who should be the Republican nominee in 2020?
No one we now know. He will be a dark, smart and evil person, probably from the business world, and he will be very charming and charismatic.

[Gunwitch]

(11-09-2018 06:36 AM)chvrches Wrote:  

Can you explain why it's easier in 2018?

-
You say it's actually harder...

I think it has a lot to do with young girls obsessing over social proof, and how will she show you to her friend group if you're not up to the "tinder" standards? What will her friends think about you.

-
but i need to know why it's easier when you have these new problems you didn't have in 2001 for instance.

The problems were there MORE in 2001 or 1999 or 2005 or whatever because women hadn't taken a step back and went "no I WONT BE CONDITIONED" about sex yet. Things have shifted fast in that way in USA at least.

Social proof isn't an issue in daygame lone women approaches, you are there, and stimulating her and isolating her to fuck her. ANYPLACE on earth, they want the dick if you can work your game to show her you are taking accountability for the sex happening.

The problems you are throwing out there to me are theory, not in practice game on really young women. In states at least as long as her friends aren't there, no one is there, just you and her, this is all theory and "I think" not practice in field. I never get a sense in field on a young chick that she is "judging me against Tinder hunks" haha.

She is in the moment with me being fully immersed in what I am talking about. If my game or any game was ever based on "walk up and see if she thinks i'm hot or not" we would all be doing direct game BS from 2003.

A chick in same condition in 2001ish was also going after the pickup "I dont wanna be a slut!" so they gave way more last minute resistance and anti slut defense shit.

In 2018 she is going "its ok to be a slut for YOU because sex is ok with strangers because being a sex vamp modern woman is ok socially" is what I gather.

I can't read minds, but I get that vibe in 2018, never did in 2000ish era.

This is all another way mass media misconception of Mystery method/group theory AND social media pickup theory has warped guys against cold approach. These non valid ideas that women are some hive mind and can't individual be changed to suit you in private, without thinking of their friends, social networks, social cybernetic identity etc etc etc.

As Islam teaches haha... "when a man and a woman are alone together in a room the third in the room is the devil"....

Ancient fuckin wisdom and truth. They think sex is bad so.... they mean "you are gonna fuck your best friends wife if you get alone with her with no outside judgement".

It's the same in 2018, if you do cold approach on lone women with a focus on isolation outside of public eye, PLUS these girls are less conditioned to only have sex in LTRs/make him wait etc, than they were in 2001. It ISN'T my game improvements either, i'm talking even hookups (girls just down to fuck in a social circle or such) not pickups (cold approach and heavy influence to get her alone and attracted).

My theory, what I feel/get from them, no science to any of that, but it's easier post maybe 2010ish to bang younger chicks, and when I fuck a 30 something today I get same LMR and ASD shit I did back then. So it's what i've learned. Scandinavia might be different... But I doubt it. Talk to anyone anyplace that hasn't mastered the game and they'll tell you women are tough everyplace and worse now than they ever were or will ever be.

When I see anyone saying "Tinder ruined pickup" "neils book exposed all the secrets (hahaha he never even learned the game for real much less told it)" "in 2008 being asian is a death sentence to game" etc, I just always think "ok what would you have been saying instead of treating this like a fuckin skill to master and getting in field pre tinder or pre this or that?"

Nothing personal chvrches, but your question smacks of the ageless "I think, I wonder, can you motivate me" vs the "I am doing x and it isn't working, why?"

In this community, this game it's always "bitches are evil today FUCK, how can I win easy?"

More than likely anyone who says that? Really it's all about them, not the "era of women", much less 2018/tinder/social media who are REALLY easy to get in bed/conditioned that "being a slut is ok" chicks.

Why there are so few PUAs, most have no concept of hard work and athletic mindset of how to learn and train and endless drill skillsets. Most guys who find this community have an engineers mindset of "I want to know how to do exactly x y and z" not "I wanna hammer a skill until I master it".

Women change, but the guys who don't succeed with women never do. Lack of discipline and effort to work the angles are the universal truth of guys who say "women are harder now than they ever were or ever will be".

Lastly you said "some girls will think you're weird for cold approaching since everything is done through either social circle now or nightgame."

That has ALWAYS been the case everywhere always. That's the classic situation all guys always do and always have everyplace always!!! "Throwing the baby out with the bathwater. It's better that 1 in hell 20 chicks recoil at your gym, or park or lake or beach approach, and the other 19 don't go "what do my 3 friends think here in the club?" as an obstacle by a HUGE margin influence and social frame wise.

It's always been the biggest obstacle to good game, that guys want to approach in the designated areas socially, while drunk, while all her friends are around. That socially protects women from outliers. Meanwhile guys who aren't willing to be outliers/baddies brains can't wrap around it to get women they don't "deserve" pretty much. It's probably inner game issue/approach anxiety issue number 1.


Gun

[BadBoyGamer]

Quote:

Can you explain why it's easier in 2018?

One reason is that guys have become even worse than before. The feminine culture that is going on in society and especially social media have screwed guys up. Most of you do not even know how masculinity looks like anymore. Cannot even recognize a man of value from one who has none.

The weakness in guys is unbearable. Even as a guy it is hard to look at. And I can only imagine how girls must feel like.

Most guys, and I am talking about like 95% or something like that, are completely asexual. Sure, you want to fuck a hottie. But wanting to fuck a hottie does not magical make you sexual.

Social skill are disappearing. Mostly among guys. Talking to a pretty girl has become the rare exception. Instead guys go online and and think this is in any way the same thing. Not realizing they do not learn any social skills this way.

Instead of being honest with self guys go complain about girls. Girls do this. Girls do that. Girls not doing this or that. Without realizing for one second the girls are not the problem. You are!

It is easy to blame society or girls or Trump. It is much much harder to point the finger at yourself and be honest. To admit that you failed at getting girls. That your understanding of girls is bad. That your ideas are wrong. That the things society has teached you is wrong. That your dreams are fantasies. That you have to grow up and be realistic. That you have to re-think your position.

Quote:

In my opinion

No. Screw your opinion. Everyone has an opinion. Nothing special.

Go and learn game. Talk to girls in real life. Lots of girls. Work on getting good at it. Improve yourself. And learn how things really are.

Only then go have an opinion. An opinion actually based on experience.

Quote:

...
these girls already have that shitty unrealistic tinder ideal look idea on their brain
...
It's shallow as fuck.

And again. On Tinder looks might be everything. Or else they do not even write back or swipe in the right direction or whatever. In real life things are different.

You complain girls are shallow? It is even worse than you imagine. Looks do not even matter. Imagine that! Girls are looking for a sexual guy. A guy who displays "I can fuck your brains out and then I bang your best friend just for lolz". Talk about shallow.

Obviously you have to take above statement with a grain of salt. But I can already feel the weak comment it might provoke.

Instead guys try to stick to their unrealistic fantasies. Some guys try to find this one good girl among thousands upon thousands of girls they label as "sluts". Then he gets angry because he cannot find this one good girl. Or others think you have to make pretty pictures. They go spend hours on Tinder swiping around and then get mad when it does not work.

In the eyes of an average girl most guys are perceived as disgusting, weak and pathetic. They do not want to even get close to them. And it is not about some sort of ridiculous standards. It is because guys have become actually like this. Like a pile of puke.

And thus girls much rather bang some player. She does not care if he does not shower. Or not wears the latest fashion. Or whatever. Because the alternative is puke. And nobody wants to fuck puke.

I guess this is a small rant. And this is not the best place for it. It has to be said however. If you want to bang those hotties you dream about then you must accept and learn Game.

[subterfuge]

''you must accept and learn Game.''

I'd imagine there isn't a poster here who hasn't read at least 3 or 4 PUA books from cover to cover (there better not be any, anyway!! lol) and so they've 'learnt game'. (of course, there could be a new debate about if anything even needs to be 'learnt' in todays world of 'natural game')

[BadBoyGamer]

(11-09-2018 08:38 AM)subterfuge Wrote:  

''you must accept and learn Game.''

I'd imagine there isn't a poster here who hasn't read at least 3 or 4 PUA books from cover to cover (there better not be any, anyway!! lol) and so they've 'learnt game'. (of course, there could be a new debate about if anything even needs to be 'learnt' in todays world of 'natural game')

Reading a book and learning from it are entirely different things.

[ksbms]

(11-04-2018 07:52 PM)BlastbeatCasanova Wrote:  

Say what you want about Heartiste but The 16 Commanments of Poon and his older game gems is still relevant IMO. On occasion he'll answer some reader submissions and drop some nuggets here and there

True that. Let's not forget, even though cultural and tech changes are logarithmic, the biological brain, the primitive brainstem and mesolimbic structures evolve incredibly slowly. Whatever girls say and think, their responses to mating signals are emotions that are predominantly hard-wired. The whole roast of all PU advice is just a cherry on top of a solid, baked cake of exactly the same recipe. Never forget it. There's lots of noise out there, but the basics are "carved" (literally) in a stone called DNA. Mystery Method's backbone is based on evolutionary biology and psychology.

[ksbms]

(11-08-2018 11:29 PM)Noir Wrote:  

@Gunwitch, thanks for dropping by. Your material helped me a reasonable amount, as did your posts on the old seduction forums (2005-2009).

I have written this before and will write it again.

Men are visual, women are not.

There is ample demonstrable evidence to the contrary, without resorting to any scientific data. Just to start, ever seen some Hollywood couples' pics?

[Barney]

Not a self improvement denialist, but is it possible to learn much past a certain age? Can someone who's had a shit set of circumstances in life and who's missed pretty much all sexual milestones be redeemable? Are some people just unfixable after a certain age? Can someone who's psyche is as fragile as an uncooked egg survive in this fucked up cut-throat dating market? Askin' for a friend.

[Sender]

(11-09-2018 01:08 PM)Barney Wrote:  

Not a self improvement denialist, but is it possible to learn much past a certain age? Can someone who's had a shit set of circumstances in life and who's missed pretty much all sexual milestones be redeemable? Are some people just unfixable after a certain age? Askin' for a friend.

The fact that your 'friend' is asking the question at all almost certainly means that it is fixable.

The only difference, I guess, is that you can't turn back the clock. If you're 30, you have to learn game like a 30yr old. If you're 40, then like a 40yr old. And so on.

I had some shit to deal with in my life. I'm improving everyday since becoming redpill. I'm positive about the future. If you're awake to your flaws then it's possible to sort them.

[firat113]

(11-09-2018 01:08 PM)Barney Wrote:  

Not a self improvement denialist, but is it possible to learn much past a certain age? Can someone who's had a shit set of circumstances in life and who's missed pretty much all sexual milestones be redeemable? Are some people just unfixable after a certain age? Can someone who's psyche is as fragile as an uncooked egg survive in this fucked up cut-throat dating market? Askin' for a friend.

I recommend you reading this; https://krauserpua.com/2014/05/31/game-i...nal-youth/ and https://krauserpua.com/2012/03/07/youre-...-you-feel/

[Anchor Man]

(11-09-2018 12:04 PM)ksbms Wrote:  

(11-08-2018 11:29 PM)Noir Wrote:  

@Gunwitch, thanks for dropping by. Your material helped me a reasonable amount, as did your posts on the old seduction forums (2005-2009).

I have written this before and will write it again.

Men are visual, women are not.

There is ample demonstrable evidence to the contrary, without resorting to any scientific data. Just to start, ever seen some Hollywood couples' pics?

Again I am not denying the looks, but celebs partnered up for different reasons : one of them is publicity . A celeb male/ female wants to be seen with hot partner

[Anchor Man]

(11-08-2018 11:29 PM)Noir Wrote:  

@Gunwitch, thanks for dropping by. Your material helped me a reasonable amount, as did your posts on the old seduction forums (2005-2009).

I have written this before and will write it again.

Men are visual, women are not.

Women are attracted to confidence and resources. Men are attracted to beauty.

Men obtain their confidence through resources, looks and status. It can be easy to rationalize the one vs the other.

The posts made here are absolute garbage and excuse making.

Look through my past posts where I have fucking dissected the shit out of the looks/money vs game argument. Both have merit.

Looks don't even come close because once you are fuckable 7+ then that's it.

Women don't rate men on a sliding scale of 1-10. It's binary. Either he is hot or he is not. It's the confidence that is the differentiator and game is exhibiting confidence and pushing the right buttons.

I wrote in the past month about how I live with a model 9 who has his own portfolio. He is fucking handsome. 185cm, chiseled jaw, blue eyes, you name it.

I am 174cm and reasonably attractive but on paper, he is more attractive.

I am trying to pay devil advocate here, but one critic might say " Hey Noir, how can you say looks doesn't matter that much and yourself are good-looking . You have never been on the other side. How would you be credible then"

I agree with you, but this is a thought cross my mind. I'd be glad if you elaborated

[Rocha]

(11-09-2018 08:38 AM)subterfuge Wrote:  

''you must accept and learn Game.''

I'd imagine there isn't a poster here who hasn't read at least 3 or 4 PUA books from cover to cover (there better not be any, anyway!! lol) and so they've 'learnt game'. (of course, there could be a new debate about if anything even needs to be 'learnt' in todays world of 'natural game')

I read Neil Strauss "The Game" until half...then got bored around the part of Mistery depression. That was the only PUA book I have "read".

[Freebird Flying]

What about Inner game?

I've been listening to a lot of audio books lately:

Grand Cardone
Tony Robbins
Brian Tracy

[Obermarschall]

(11-09-2018 01:08 PM)Barney Wrote:  

Not a self improvement denialist, but is it possible to learn much past a certain age? Can someone who's had a shit set of circumstances in life and who's missed pretty much all sexual milestones be redeemable? Are some people just unfixable after a certain age? Can someone who's psyche is as fragile as an uncooked egg survive in this fucked up cut-throat dating market? Askin' for a friend.

How can your 'friend' know, if he didn't try it yet?

[27YearOldAverageGame]

PUA is easy. i think what needs to be addressed is how to act during the date to fuck her mind.


getting numbers and dates are easy its during the date that is a gamble sometimes.

[Kieran]

(11-14-2018 07:52 AM)Freebird Flying Wrote:  

What about Inner game?

I've been listening to a lot of audio books lately:

Grand Cardone
Tony Robbins
Brian Tracy

I wouldn't worry too much about inner game because it tends to happen naturally once you start getting some external results. There's stuff around that's good for establishing what your boundaries and values are though like David DeAngelo's 'On Being a Man'. This was quite ahead of it's time and there's a lot of stuff in there that's similar to what Jordan Peterson talks about but with more of a focus on women.

[Freebird Flying]

I was gonna say, I like Tyler at RSD for inner game the best. He inspires me to go out and game like no one else.

That was before but i'm not following it closely anymore. I thought his videos was for real, but now I'm much more skeptical.

[Repo]

I like this guy. Isnt focused on pick up that much, but alot of relationship stuff, finding your purpose, and general improving your life type stuff. He gets deep into developing your overall masculinity versus just game stuff.

[Devin.Cassius]

Jason Capital has a lot of great advice, but he also has a lot overpriced products. Truth be told, Roosh is probably the only PUA I can think of who I like and respect.

[nek]

Not Dwight Howard...