Four Hour Work Week was a big inspiration for me.
It's not a manual though. Creativity and determination are 100% required to succeed.
It's not a manual though. Creativity and determination are 100% required to succeed.
Tim Ferriss Followers Are Impressionable Children
4HWW actually worked for me too. I read it, took persistent action, and built a cash-flowing online business.
I think people take the book title literally, and dismiss it as some kind of get rich quick scheme.
I interpret the Four Hour Work Week as a metaphor that means it's possible to set your own hours, work where you want, when you want, and design your own lifestyle.
Honestly I found working in a corporate environment to be more difficult and mentally draining than building a location independent business. I despised being a corporate slave.
I think people take the book title literally, and dismiss it as some kind of get rich quick scheme.
I interpret the Four Hour Work Week as a metaphor that means it's possible to set your own hours, work where you want, when you want, and design your own lifestyle.
Honestly I found working in a corporate environment to be more difficult and mentally draining than building a location independent business. I despised being a corporate slave.
I'm glad this thread got bumped, as I just finished Tribe of Mentors. With that, I have read all of Ferriss's books, cover-to-cover. I have observed Ferriss for over a decade now. My first exposure to him was via his blog. I quickly purchased and read the first edition of 4HWW. I read the blog for a number of years. I read and attempted much of the material in The 4-Hour Chef and The 4-Hour Body.
I have vacillated on his stuff throughout the years. Sometimes I think he has a bit of genius in him. Then, I get to the point where I think he is a complete charlatan.
But, like all things, there is probably good and bad in his work. So, I'll break it down as far as I see it.
I view his work (specifically 4HWW) much like I view the work of Robert Kiyosaki. Both Ferriss and Kiyosaki have had a pile of criticism thrown at them. And, they have been criticized for the same reasons (lying about their background, not practicing what they write about, defrauding their fans). I am not a huge fan of Kiyosaki, but I have met a number of people who have benefited from his books. This is mainly in their mindset. It isn't that they practice his stuff to the letter. They claim he "inspired" them to see things differently. Fair enough. If Ferriss works for you on that level, I have no criticism to level.
Now, let's break down his work in to four main categories. The 4-Hour Workweek and The 4-Hour Body will go in to the category of actionable books. The 4-Hour Chef, Tribe of Mentors, and Tools of Titans will go in to general self-help. The blog is a thing on its own. And, his other media (TV, podcasts, etc) are everything else.
The general self-help books are somewhat beyond criticism because they are simply that - general self-help. I don't find them particularly actionable, and therefore, they are untestable. But, I did find them interesting.
The actionable books are worthy of a bit more criticism, but mostly in that they won't apply to a lot of people. This isn't because the advice is faulty. It is the assumption that most, or even many, people have it in them to successfully follow through on it that is faulty. In this way, I think these two books fail a lot of people. I think it would be more useful if those tyoes read these books more for entertainment - a kind of a "if only" type of reading.
I found the blog too be useful when he first started writing, but the general quality really dropped off. The first few years consisted of the posts that he would later develop in to his book ideas. There was stuff on rapid acquisition of languages, how to develop a following to market to, and how to take awesome mini-vacations several times a year. Since then, the blog has veered more in to the territory of his poscasts and media stuff, which I do not like.
And to that. I have never really liked Ferriss's other media. I used to watch his earlier streams with Kevin Rose and I always got a Bay Area nouveau bohemian vibe from the whole thing. I hate that. A lot of this material has to do with "foodie" stuff and what the newest gadget was (that everyone in Silicon Valley was using). Now, it seems he has a sort of Joe Rogan style podcast on which he interviews the makers of the day. Again, it seems to be a lot of fluff, kind of like watching a TED Talk. Not interested.
So, it's hit and miss with him. I don't think all his followers are "impressionable children". I am one of his followers, in a way. But you have to separate the fluff from the actionable. Then, you have to decide what you actually want to take action on, realizing that not everything will work for everyone. As for the rest, ignore it or read it for entertainment.
I have vacillated on his stuff throughout the years. Sometimes I think he has a bit of genius in him. Then, I get to the point where I think he is a complete charlatan.
But, like all things, there is probably good and bad in his work. So, I'll break it down as far as I see it.
I view his work (specifically 4HWW) much like I view the work of Robert Kiyosaki. Both Ferriss and Kiyosaki have had a pile of criticism thrown at them. And, they have been criticized for the same reasons (lying about their background, not practicing what they write about, defrauding their fans). I am not a huge fan of Kiyosaki, but I have met a number of people who have benefited from his books. This is mainly in their mindset. It isn't that they practice his stuff to the letter. They claim he "inspired" them to see things differently. Fair enough. If Ferriss works for you on that level, I have no criticism to level.
Now, let's break down his work in to four main categories. The 4-Hour Workweek and The 4-Hour Body will go in to the category of actionable books. The 4-Hour Chef, Tribe of Mentors, and Tools of Titans will go in to general self-help. The blog is a thing on its own. And, his other media (TV, podcasts, etc) are everything else.
The general self-help books are somewhat beyond criticism because they are simply that - general self-help. I don't find them particularly actionable, and therefore, they are untestable. But, I did find them interesting.
The actionable books are worthy of a bit more criticism, but mostly in that they won't apply to a lot of people. This isn't because the advice is faulty. It is the assumption that most, or even many, people have it in them to successfully follow through on it that is faulty. In this way, I think these two books fail a lot of people. I think it would be more useful if those tyoes read these books more for entertainment - a kind of a "if only" type of reading.
I found the blog too be useful when he first started writing, but the general quality really dropped off. The first few years consisted of the posts that he would later develop in to his book ideas. There was stuff on rapid acquisition of languages, how to develop a following to market to, and how to take awesome mini-vacations several times a year. Since then, the blog has veered more in to the territory of his poscasts and media stuff, which I do not like.
And to that. I have never really liked Ferriss's other media. I used to watch his earlier streams with Kevin Rose and I always got a Bay Area nouveau bohemian vibe from the whole thing. I hate that. A lot of this material has to do with "foodie" stuff and what the newest gadget was (that everyone in Silicon Valley was using). Now, it seems he has a sort of Joe Rogan style podcast on which he interviews the makers of the day. Again, it seems to be a lot of fluff, kind of like watching a TED Talk. Not interested.
So, it's hit and miss with him. I don't think all his followers are "impressionable children". I am one of his followers, in a way. But you have to separate the fluff from the actionable. Then, you have to decide what you actually want to take action on, realizing that not everything will work for everyone. As for the rest, ignore it or read it for entertainment.
Currently out of office.
Tim Ferriss is a pathological liar to the tune of millions of dollars, he is a marvel to behold
I think you have to keep in mind that Ferriss is a marketer at heart, which means that he caters to the desires of the masses. He's an incredibly talented marketer, as he essentially built an internationally-recognized brand out of thin air, over the course of a decade.
What I'm saying is that you should replicate some aspects of what Ferriss is doing (if you're ambitious), rather than follow his advice (which is targeted at the mainstream masses, AKA average people).
I laugh at how manosphere guys claim to admire Machiavellian behavior, and then get butthurt when they realize that public figures are Machiavellian.
Stop listening to what these guys are saying. Watch what they do. Borrow what benefits you.
What I'm saying is that you should replicate some aspects of what Ferriss is doing (if you're ambitious), rather than follow his advice (which is targeted at the mainstream masses, AKA average people).
I laugh at how manosphere guys claim to admire Machiavellian behavior, and then get butthurt when they realize that public figures are Machiavellian.
Stop listening to what these guys are saying. Watch what they do. Borrow what benefits you.
Just take Tim Ferriss with a grain of salt. He has claimed to workout for 4 hours a month and gain muscle (nobody can do this). He has paid people to spam forums when he was first starting out. I vaguely remember he ran some kind of program where he would get you to do SEO for him and for the uninitiated that should scream scam all the way. Just like people on this thread have stated his advice is mostly tailored for the average joe that comes home from his 9-5, drinks booze, jerks off to porn, and watches Netflix.
With that in mind, I have read 4 hour Chef and Tools of Titans and used some of his material. For example, in Tools of Titans I learned the importance of intermittent fasting. Even though he interviewed Margaret Cho (liberal hack) I still read that section with an open mind. The book is obviously an infomercial for other marketers to toot their horn. Like the title of this thread suggests, Tim Ferriss Followers Are Impressionable Children, and therefore can't see they're being gamed. A very important takeaway (although ironic) in the book was the importance of having a dedicated fan base instead of having worldwide fame. If giving the guy money is such an issue then borrow his books from your local library or follow someone else. The man's talented so learn a thing or two from him! Watch how he uses social proof, authority, and the principle of reciprocity.
With that in mind, I have read 4 hour Chef and Tools of Titans and used some of his material. For example, in Tools of Titans I learned the importance of intermittent fasting. Even though he interviewed Margaret Cho (liberal hack) I still read that section with an open mind. The book is obviously an infomercial for other marketers to toot their horn. Like the title of this thread suggests, Tim Ferriss Followers Are Impressionable Children, and therefore can't see they're being gamed. A very important takeaway (although ironic) in the book was the importance of having a dedicated fan base instead of having worldwide fame. If giving the guy money is such an issue then borrow his books from your local library or follow someone else. The man's talented so learn a thing or two from him! Watch how he uses social proof, authority, and the principle of reciprocity.
Here's one key point people need to understand. Much of what Tim wrote in 4HWW was applicable to the infancy stage in internet marketing where a lot of what he said could have been applied and would have probably worked because not many people were doing it at that time.
But by the time his book actually gained worldwide traction, most of those methodologies became outdated. I'll give you two examples of my own:
1. Back in 2012, I created a football (soccer) related blog/website that was very well SEO optimized (read manipulated) by using a very easy strategy of having keywords in the domain name and low competition long tail keywords that were not too tough to research using the Google keyword planner. Within a month, the site was ranking on first on Google for some of the biggest soccer related terms like "How to play soccer", "How to kick a soccer ball", etc etc. I was getting a TON of traffic in no time and the moment I put some soccer training products as an affiliate via Clickbank, I started making around $300-400 without even doing anything else. I repeated it for other niches (fitness related) and that got me another $500-600 a month in passive income. In fact I even started a SEO optimized website which literally had one 1000 word article on how to correctly do pull-ups and then at the end of it placed some affiliate links to some pull up bars. That one article was making $70-80 for me per month.
2. Now let's come to PPC advertising, something that Tim really advocates as much as outsourcing. Back in those times, I could create a Facebook page on ANY topic without the fear of being blocked/reported and get to around 50000 likes by spending a very meager amount provided the targeting was good. Since the organic reach of posts on the page at that time used be more than 20%, you could easily reach a huge amount of your followers for free. You could post affiliate links directly and Facebook would not decrease your reach.
Basically, hacks were easy and a person could run this show all by himself with very less investment and from anywhere.
But now, most of these things aren't possible. The search and advertising algorithms have become way more smarter.
For instance, Google places majority of the significance to off-site SEO, i.e, if OTHER people share your stuff, that's the fastest way to rank higher, not just by on-site manipulation.
Advertising on the other hand, especially Facebook advertising, has TOTALLY changed in the last 6-7 years. Try running an ad for a get-rich scheme, and you're bound to get flagged.
Reaching people involves money and a good knowledge of targeting and how the ads work .No other way around. The competition for a similar set of audience has gone up too.
Basically, the days hacking the system are over and each of these systems is moving towards rewarding one and only one thing - BUSINESSES THAT ARE GENUINE AND SINCERE. This means unless you are a brand and know how to build one, you really won't be going far. Max to max, you can be a great freelancer but forget about running a location independent business that requires four hours of work a week.
Tim is an incredibly smart guy who is reaping the benefits of thinking 4-5 years ahead of his time. A personal brand depends on only one thing - a huge base of subscribers. Tim got his with the help of 4HWW. Anything after that has been a cake walk for him. Not saying he hasn't worked hard but he isn't anywhere close to being a know-it-all marketing/business guru as his followers and his own podcasts make him out to be.
But by the time his book actually gained worldwide traction, most of those methodologies became outdated. I'll give you two examples of my own:
1. Back in 2012, I created a football (soccer) related blog/website that was very well SEO optimized (read manipulated) by using a very easy strategy of having keywords in the domain name and low competition long tail keywords that were not too tough to research using the Google keyword planner. Within a month, the site was ranking on first on Google for some of the biggest soccer related terms like "How to play soccer", "How to kick a soccer ball", etc etc. I was getting a TON of traffic in no time and the moment I put some soccer training products as an affiliate via Clickbank, I started making around $300-400 without even doing anything else. I repeated it for other niches (fitness related) and that got me another $500-600 a month in passive income. In fact I even started a SEO optimized website which literally had one 1000 word article on how to correctly do pull-ups and then at the end of it placed some affiliate links to some pull up bars. That one article was making $70-80 for me per month.
2. Now let's come to PPC advertising, something that Tim really advocates as much as outsourcing. Back in those times, I could create a Facebook page on ANY topic without the fear of being blocked/reported and get to around 50000 likes by spending a very meager amount provided the targeting was good. Since the organic reach of posts on the page at that time used be more than 20%, you could easily reach a huge amount of your followers for free. You could post affiliate links directly and Facebook would not decrease your reach.
Basically, hacks were easy and a person could run this show all by himself with very less investment and from anywhere.
But now, most of these things aren't possible. The search and advertising algorithms have become way more smarter.
For instance, Google places majority of the significance to off-site SEO, i.e, if OTHER people share your stuff, that's the fastest way to rank higher, not just by on-site manipulation.
Advertising on the other hand, especially Facebook advertising, has TOTALLY changed in the last 6-7 years. Try running an ad for a get-rich scheme, and you're bound to get flagged.
Reaching people involves money and a good knowledge of targeting and how the ads work .No other way around. The competition for a similar set of audience has gone up too.
Basically, the days hacking the system are over and each of these systems is moving towards rewarding one and only one thing - BUSINESSES THAT ARE GENUINE AND SINCERE. This means unless you are a brand and know how to build one, you really won't be going far. Max to max, you can be a great freelancer but forget about running a location independent business that requires four hours of work a week.
Tim is an incredibly smart guy who is reaping the benefits of thinking 4-5 years ahead of his time. A personal brand depends on only one thing - a huge base of subscribers. Tim got his with the help of 4HWW. Anything after that has been a cake walk for him. Not saying he hasn't worked hard but he isn't anywhere close to being a know-it-all marketing/business guru as his followers and his own podcasts make him out to be.
At this point he's an insufferable celebrity worshipping corporate shill, reeling in people selling them the idea that they too can become like whoever the hell he's just interviewed by listening to his inane podcasts. His high thin ninnyish soy voice is grating too.
And don't forget to try the products he spends 5 minutes/several paragraphs in every correspondence trying to tell you changed his life/business.
And don't forget to try the products he spends 5 minutes/several paragraphs in every correspondence trying to tell you changed his life/business.
Quote: (08-21-2018 09:37 AM)testos111 Wrote:
Here's one key point people need to understand. Much of what Tim wrote in 4HWW was applicable to the infancy stage in internet marketing where a lot of what he said could have been applied and would have probably worked because not many people were doing it at that time.
**snip**
Basically, the days hacking the system are over and each of these systems is moving towards rewarding one and only one thing - BUSINESSES THAT ARE GENUINE AND SINCERE. This means unless you are a brand and know how to build one, you really won't be going far. Max to max, you can be a great freelancer but forget about running a location independent business that requires four hours of work a week.
...Not saying he hasn't worked hard but he isn't anywhere close to being a know-it-all marketing/business guru as his followers and his own podcasts make him out to be.
I was going to write a similar comment a couple days ago in this thread. I think you summed it up quite nicely. I read 4HWW while I was on deployment in AFG and thought it was one of the coolest things ever. But, I read it late, and most of that shit doesn't work anymore as a business model.
However, I did get a bit out of the book. The outsourcing ideas are pretty cool. The problem is if you're going to "save" money and have it done by foreigners, especially if they don't have a solid command of English, this will inevitably bite you in the ass (as I think it did him a couple times).
I think another takeaway from the book was just the idea of gaming the system. From "cheating" at a martial arts tournament, to "buying" a tango competition, he's definitely a clever guy.
But if you think you're going to pick up that book and mimic his success in this day and age, then yes, you are an impressionable child. Things just don't work like that now.
EDIT---To agree with what Chet^^ just said. I can't hardly stand the guy nowadays.
I don't like him much as a person, but I liked a couple of his books.
I will be checking my PMs weekly, so you can catch me there. I will not be posting.
^^Yeah. Too much cheerleading gets annoying, even if the cheerleaders happen to be hot.
Quote: (08-21-2018 09:50 AM)Dulceácido Wrote:
I think another takeaway from the book was just the idea of gaming the system. From "cheating" at a martial arts tournament, to "buying" a tango competition, he's definitely a clever guy.
So, he is the guy who has leveraged the recent concept of the 'life hack' better than anyone else on the internet.
As a result, he carries with him all the strengths and weaknesses of the life hack mentality.
A life hack is a clever shortcut. It appeals to young people because they can tell themselves they are fully of the new millennium, and not dragged down by the attitudes and habits of stuck-in-their-ways old people.
This is absolutely fine as far as it goes. It just breaks down when you try to achieve something for which there is no easy shortcut.
Sometimes I like the people he interviews, though the tone of new-and-shiny-people-will-teach-you-what's-up is pretty annoying. You can't just *pick the brain* of a successful person doing a *mind dump* and be successful like them.
You have to have talent, drive, creativity, work ethic to get anywhere, and by pretending that you can pick up a few tips from a genius and become a genius yourself is selling dreams to credulous web surfers.
Though you may actually get some inspiration and ideas if you can see past the lifestyle sales pitch.
He strikes me as a glassy eyed gee whiz give me some of that magic guy pretending, to a degree, that life is easier than it is.
Most people would be ashamed to buy a Tango contest or win a sports event by capitalizing on a quirk in the rules. You might do it as a joke, but not as an example of your resourcefulness and basic successful guy vibe.
That is the main weak spot of the life hack. Cheating in spirit if not in law. It is tailor made for the short attention span theater of the internet, where you create a shiny self-brand that everyone can get hyped about as long as no one looks too closely.
He is truly an internet success story, and also a cautionary tale, as his own essential approach to achievement is its own ball and chain.
“The greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents.”
Carl Jung
As a practicing martial artist most of my life, I thought his "competition hack" was a bit shameful. It's certainly not the way I would want to "win" at anything and flies in the face of most martial arts teachings. It's not something I would be proud of, for sure. Imagine all those people who actually trained their asses off for their big day just to get duped by some clown...
I'm not as emotionally invested in his tango stunt, but still unimpressed.
In both instances he uses a form of exploitation. I can see the concept being useful in a courtroom or similar circumstance, but not in the ways he employed it.
I'm not as emotionally invested in his tango stunt, but still unimpressed.
In both instances he uses a form of exploitation. I can see the concept being useful in a courtroom or similar circumstance, but not in the ways he employed it.
« Next Oldest | Next Newest »
Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)