[RatInTheWoods]

(07-16-2018 01:38 AM)Dodgy Wrote:  

And the biggest difficulties messing around with girls ten years younger than me is the culture. Obviously the excessive smart phone use is annoying, but I just ignore it. But I don't care for trap music or for what passes as rock music these days. And I don't call Coachella "Chella" or have any desire to go to it ever again. And I can't stand watching Vanderpump Rules or that stupid Netflix show about the girl who makes tapes before she kills herself.

This is why I'd rather fuck nice milfs.

Bonus is they ain't swallowing some other dudes jizz the day before and kissing me with that mouth.

Shes only got time to date and bang old rattie, cause she has a life.

And she knows what to do with a cock.

[jordypip23]

(07-16-2018 08:33 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

(07-16-2018 01:38 AM)Dodgy Wrote:  

And the biggest difficulties messing around with girls ten years younger than me is the culture. Obviously the excessive smart phone use is annoying, but I just ignore it. But I don't care for trap music or for what passes as rock music these days. And I don't call Coachella "Chella" or have any desire to go to it ever again. And I can't stand watching Vanderpump Rules or that stupid Netflix show about the girl who makes tapes before she kills herself.

This is why I'd rather fuck nice milfs.

Bonus is they ain't swallowing some other dudes jizz the day before and kissing me with that mouth.

Shes only got time to date and bang old rattie, cause she has a life.

And she knows what to do with a cock.

Had to hit the Like button on this mainly because it made me LOL. But there are nights when I'm in the mood for this type of vibe. I know in these types of situations sometimes the MILF feels truly lucky to get with me heheh. It's kind of a nice feeling. They don't take higher SMV male attention for granted in quite the same way as the young broads.

[EndsExpect]

(07-15-2018 03:23 PM)rotinz Wrote:  

One thing I've noticed is that younger women have much more disposable income then younger men. You might think this is just because of the sugar daddy/baby phenomenon but while that does play apart it's not the only reason. The college ratio is like 60/40 in womens favor, some student loans barely cover anything but a lot of student loans cover most basic expenses so for 4 years a lot of girls don't have to worry to much. So there are more girls then guys aged 18-22 having their expenses taken care of. Women are also more successful then men in early employment so there are more women in their teens and early 20's that have a job or some kind of income.
Women are becoming far more successful then men on average and this is why older guys might find it harder to get with younger girls. And this is why younger guys are doing better in hookup culture because girls aren't looking for support anymore and are just looking to have fun. If anything girls are starting to support guys these days. I know a lot of girls that take care of their boyfriends and pay their bills.
Looks are starting to go up way in value and that's what girls that are looking for guys look for. The value of status and money is definitely going down game wise. As men age their Money/Status goes up and in the old days that is what helped men get women. But these days women are able to get their own Money/Status and on average they are doing better then men now. So really the only thing that they are looking for is looks. As both men and women age their looks start to fade.
Everyone (both men and women) are fighting to get with someone that is 18-25 years old since that is seen as the most attractive age range. Everyone wants a partner or a fuck buddy that is in their prime years that is what it really all comes down to now in the end. It's not just men either that are looking to get with the younger crowd it's the same with women. After a women gets divorced in her 30s she would love for nothing more then to fuck an 18-25 year old guy like when she was in her prime years.

I think you are missing the big picture in your analysis here. Yes, boys who attend college are cleaning house and racking up notches like never before... primarily because of that 60/40 ratio. This is partly what is driving the fat ugly blue haired girls into extreme feminism... they can't even get dick.

Women as a general rule do not date down the socioeconomic ladder. I don't give a fuck how much money or status she has... she will always want a guy who has more.

So, if you look at women aged 23-30 who have graduated and are now starting careers... they are chasing older men like never before. Partly because there is a shortage of qualified men their own age... partly because so many boys within their age group are Peter Pan's and have decided to not grow up. I think it cannot be overstated how many boys today have decided to live in their moms basement and smoke weed the rest of their lives. Or shoot heroine and die...

[Jack Gignac]

(07-17-2018 08:39 AM)EndsExpect Wrote:  

(07-15-2018 03:23 PM)rotinz Wrote:  

One thing I've noticed is that younger women have much more disposable income then younger men. You might think this is just because of the sugar daddy/baby phenomenon but while that does play apart it's not the only reason. The college ratio is like 60/40 in womens favor, some student loans barely cover anything but a lot of student loans cover most basic expenses so for 4 years a lot of girls don't have to worry to much. So there are more girls then guys aged 18-22 having their expenses taken care of. Women are also more successful then men in early employment so there are more women in their teens and early 20's that have a job or some kind of income.
Women are becoming far more successful then men on average and this is why older guys might find it harder to get with younger girls. And this is why younger guys are doing better in hookup culture because girls aren't looking for support anymore and are just looking to have fun. If anything girls are starting to support guys these days. I know a lot of girls that take care of their boyfriends and pay their bills.
Looks are starting to go up way in value and that's what girls that are looking for guys look for. The value of status and money is definitely going down game wise. As men age their Money/Status goes up and in the old days that is what helped men get women. But these days women are able to get their own Money/Status and on average they are doing better then men now. So really the only thing that they are looking for is looks. As both men and women age their looks start to fade.
Everyone (both men and women) are fighting to get with someone that is 18-25 years old since that is seen as the most attractive age range. Everyone wants a partner or a fuck buddy that is in their prime years that is what it really all comes down to now in the end. It's not just men either that are looking to get with the younger crowd it's the same with women. After a women gets divorced in her 30s she would love for nothing more then to fuck an 18-25 year old guy like when she was in her prime years.

I think you are missing the big picture in your analysis here. Yes, boys who attend college are cleaning house and racking up notches like never before... primarily because of that 60/40 ratio. This is partly what is driving the fat ugly blue haired girls into extreme feminism... they can't even get dick.

Women as a general rule do not date down the socioeconomic ladder. I don't give a fuck how much money or status she has... she will always want a guy who has more.

So, if you look at women aged 23-30 who have graduated and are now starting careers... they are chasing older men like never before. Partly because there is a shortage of qualified men their own age... partly because so many boys within their age group are Peter Pan's and have decided to not grow up. I think it cannot be overstated how many boys today have decided to live in their moms basement and smoke weed the rest of their lives. Or shoot heroine and die...

funny you bring this up. I meet a lot of girls from skewed ratio colleges and a lot of them just remain virgins for longer. the hypergamy runs strong and a lot of them would rather not fuck than lower their standards. (I think it's because a lot of them have a taste for their value in a first tier city before they go off to college town and we all know women hate downgrading).

[Trent W.]

@a beer is enough I completely understand your worry on missing out, but I believe you are overthinking this. Just go out and do what you feel you should be doing. Life slowly changes as you get older, naturally. Follow your instinct, make your mistakes and enjoy whatever comes along.

@rotinz I seriously doubt that the vast majority of women>25 want to f*ck guys in the 18-25 range. 18 years old for a 28 year old woman is like going out with a kid. A guy in the 28-35 range has way more options.

[Disco_Volante]

(07-17-2018 08:39 AM)EndsExpect Wrote:  

they are chasing older men like never before. Partly because there is a shortage of qualified men their own age... partly because so many boys within their age group are Peter Pan's and have decided to not grow up. I think it cannot be overstated how many boys today have decided to live in their moms basement and smoke weed the rest of their lives.

They're just responding to incentives. If society doesn't give a man domain over his family, paycheck, and property, there's no reason to feed the system. Only a sucker 'works hard' to feed a system that hates them.

Most white collar professions now have mandatory quotas of %50 women classes, which is drastically cutting out the available number of young men with these better jobs. Pharmacy school, Dental School, Medical school, law schools, are all mandated to get near 50% female classes.

So that's a shitload of 'accomplished' women who won't find a suitable partner, their instincts won't allow them to fuck a lower status guy.
Corporations are also putting huge pressure on promoting women and making them managers and whatnot. All of these institutions were invented / created by men, yet women are being given access to the top wrungs of them now.

Women haven't evolved beyond their drive to find a male provider yet the 'highly educated' ones can't even understand their own nature.

Let the women end up lonely, fewer young men are going to "man up" and feed this bullshit.

At this point every man just has to decide for himself his own strategy and what he wants during this collapse.

[rotinz]

(07-17-2018 01:54 PM)Jack Gignac Wrote:  

(07-17-2018 08:39 AM)EndsExpect Wrote:  

(07-15-2018 03:23 PM)rotinz Wrote:  

One thing I've noticed is that younger women have much more disposable income then younger men. You might think this is just because of the sugar daddy/baby phenomenon but while that does play apart it's not the only reason. The college ratio is like 60/40 in womens favor, some student loans barely cover anything but a lot of student loans cover most basic expenses so for 4 years a lot of girls don't have to worry to much. So there are more girls then guys aged 18-22 having their expenses taken care of. Women are also more successful then men in early employment so there are more women in their teens and early 20's that have a job or some kind of income.
Women are becoming far more successful then men on average and this is why older guys might find it harder to get with younger girls. And this is why younger guys are doing better in hookup culture because girls aren't looking for support anymore and are just looking to have fun. If anything girls are starting to support guys these days. I know a lot of girls that take care of their boyfriends and pay their bills.
Looks are starting to go up way in value and that's what girls that are looking for guys look for. The value of status and money is definitely going down game wise. As men age their Money/Status goes up and in the old days that is what helped men get women. But these days women are able to get their own Money/Status and on average they are doing better then men now. So really the only thing that they are looking for is looks. As both men and women age their looks start to fade.
Everyone (both men and women) are fighting to get with someone that is 18-25 years old since that is seen as the most attractive age range. Everyone wants a partner or a fuck buddy that is in their prime years that is what it really all comes down to now in the end. It's not just men either that are looking to get with the younger crowd it's the same with women. After a women gets divorced in her 30s she would love for nothing more then to fuck an 18-25 year old guy like when she was in her prime years.

I think you are missing the big picture in your analysis here. Yes, boys who attend college are cleaning house and racking up notches like never before... primarily because of that 60/40 ratio. This is partly what is driving the fat ugly blue haired girls into extreme feminism... they can't even get dick.

Women as a general rule do not date down the socioeconomic ladder. I don't give a fuck how much money or status she has... she will always want a guy who has more.

So, if you look at women aged 23-30 who have graduated and are now starting careers... they are chasing older men like never before. Partly because there is a shortage of qualified men their own age... partly because so many boys within their age group are Peter Pan's and have decided to not grow up. I think it cannot be overstated how many boys today have decided to live in their moms basement and smoke weed the rest of their lives. Or shoot heroine and die...

funny you bring this up. I meet a lot of girls from skewed ratio colleges and a lot of them just remain virgins for longer. the hypergamy runs strong and a lot of them would rather not fuck than lower their standards. (I think it's because a lot of them have a taste for their value in a first tier city before they go off to college town and we all know women hate downgrading).

Do you really think they are virgins one they finish college at 22+ though? Seems unlikely to me, especially if they are good looking.

[rotinz]

(07-17-2018 04:01 PM)Trent W. Wrote:  

@a beer is enough I completely understand your worry on missing out, but I believe you are overthinking this. Just go out and do what you feel you should be doing. Life slowly changes as you get older, naturally. Follow your instinct, make your mistakes and enjoy whatever comes along.

@rotinz I seriously doubt that the vast majority of women>25 want to f*ck guys in the 18-25 range. 18 years old for a 28 year old woman is like going out with a kid. A guy in the 28-35 range has way more options.

Most Men and Women are undeniably hotter when they are younger. Women definetely peak younger then Men but it's not a decade+ gap like many presume. Most Women are in their prime ages 18-25, men are a little later so maybe 21-28.

[jordypip23]

(07-18-2018 01:51 PM)rotinz Wrote:  

(07-17-2018 01:54 PM)Jack Gignac Wrote:  

(07-17-2018 08:39 AM)EndsExpect Wrote:  

(07-15-2018 03:23 PM)rotinz Wrote:  

One thing I've noticed is that younger women have much more disposable income then younger men. You might think this is just because of the sugar daddy/baby phenomenon but while that does play apart it's not the only reason. The college ratio is like 60/40 in womens favor, some student loans barely cover anything but a lot of student loans cover most basic expenses so for 4 years a lot of girls don't have to worry to much. So there are more girls then guys aged 18-22 having their expenses taken care of. Women are also more successful then men in early employment so there are more women in their teens and early 20's that have a job or some kind of income.
Women are becoming far more successful then men on average and this is why older guys might find it harder to get with younger girls. And this is why younger guys are doing better in hookup culture because girls aren't looking for support anymore and are just looking to have fun. If anything girls are starting to support guys these days. I know a lot of girls that take care of their boyfriends and pay their bills.
Looks are starting to go up way in value and that's what girls that are looking for guys look for. The value of status and money is definitely going down game wise. As men age their Money/Status goes up and in the old days that is what helped men get women. But these days women are able to get their own Money/Status and on average they are doing better then men now. So really the only thing that they are looking for is looks. As both men and women age their looks start to fade.
Everyone (both men and women) are fighting to get with someone that is 18-25 years old since that is seen as the most attractive age range. Everyone wants a partner or a fuck buddy that is in their prime years that is what it really all comes down to now in the end. It's not just men either that are looking to get with the younger crowd it's the same with women. After a women gets divorced in her 30s she would love for nothing more then to fuck an 18-25 year old guy like when she was in her prime years.

I think you are missing the big picture in your analysis here. Yes, boys who attend college are cleaning house and racking up notches like never before... primarily because of that 60/40 ratio. This is partly what is driving the fat ugly blue haired girls into extreme feminism... they can't even get dick.

Women as a general rule do not date down the socioeconomic ladder. I don't give a fuck how much money or status she has... she will always want a guy who has more.

So, if you look at women aged 23-30 who have graduated and are now starting careers... they are chasing older men like never before. Partly because there is a shortage of qualified men their own age... partly because so many boys within their age group are Peter Pan's and have decided to not grow up. I think it cannot be overstated how many boys today have decided to live in their moms basement and smoke weed the rest of their lives. Or shoot heroine and die...

funny you bring this up. I meet a lot of girls from skewed ratio colleges and a lot of them just remain virgins for longer. the hypergamy runs strong and a lot of them would rather not fuck than lower their standards. (I think it's because a lot of them have a taste for their value in a first tier city before they go off to college town and we all know women hate downgrading).

Do you really think they are virgins one they finish college at 22+ though? Seems unlikely to me, especially if they are good looking.

Extremely unlikely. Unless they were uber religious (and holding out for religious reasons), they at minimum at one or two upscale chad fratboy type guys as boyfriends. At bare minimum.

Typical notch counts probably way higher. I mean, shoot, some of these sloots mighta been banging a new fratboy every week hahah.

[Mizo1234]

OP most of his threads are either over-analysis or non sense

[birthday cat]

There are a few basic principles we should review in response to this thread.

1. The real world isn't binary or black and white like an internet forum. It's more like an infinite amount of shades of gray. You must rid yourself of this binary thinking.

2. Analytical guys need to stop being so analytical in regards to women.

3. Game isn't for you if you are overly concerned with what other people think of you. You will have to behave differently than most men if you want to have much more success than most men.

There is a misunderstanding of the concept "getting it out of your system" in this thread. Guys don't need to bang a lot of girls to get it out of their system. The only thing they need to get out of their system is their insecurities. They rationalize that banging a high quantity of girls is what they need.

People are different. It's easy and common for a young guy to be the beta provider type just as it is easy and common for an older guy to be the alpha player type. One guy might live a player lifestyle all his life and be happy, and there is nothing wrong with that. Many guys will slow down as they get older for numerous reasons such as they don't have the energy to live a player lifestyle any more, they choose to stop staying out late and drinking, their priorities change, they want a family, etc. All of that is normal to.

The "getting it out of your system" rationalization is dangerous because a guy will put too much effort into banging many girls and not enough effort into improving other aspects of his lifestyle, inner game, psychology, etc. I'm not saying there aren't guys who should live a player lifestyle and I'm not saying that getting experience with many more girls isn't necessary. However, "getting it out of your system" in the context that the OP has described it in this thread is incorrect and it's something that guys should avoid.

I'll write more about this concept if someone wants me to but this post is already long enough. An over-simplified summary would be that you should get experience with women because you need experience or because you are learning and growing or because you know the player lifestyle is what works best for you (and it's highly unlikely you will have that level of self awareness in your 20s). However, banging many girls for the primary purpose of managing one's insecurities is a behavior that will cause more problems than it solves.

[a beer is enough]

I am going to disagree here, I think MOST guys need to have a stage of their lives when they are sleeping around or living this sort of a lifestyle. No amount of "therapy" or reading is going to replace action, action speaks above all. No matter how many times someone tells you marriage is better than the "empty" player life, at the end of the day, even if he listens to you and gets married he will be unfulfilled.

While I agree that a man cannot live this sort of life forever, few can, they can't go ahead and go right to marriage while having had an unfulfilled player life. I personally left a quality LTR because I wanted to chase this lifestyle.

You don't get "insecurities" out of your system by thinking them away or some bogus therapy, you do it through action. Now I agree that guys who get that certain lifestyle, live it after a while and have their fun might get those insecurities out of their systems but exceptions exist there.

Which makes me want to attack another point, the attack on the player life even in masculine spaces.

I get that some guys want marriage but I feel as if more and more, there is an attack on player life and the lifestyle of a man in his prime fucking lots of random women instead of choosing marriage. It is almost as if the religious right, feminism and masculine spaces have had this marriage of an idea where they agree at one point. Seems like this radical shift has happened, maybe with the death of PUA, to where everywhere you go this sort of life is shamed.

People think that every guy was able to get it out of his system in college but quite frankly, if you were not an athlete or rich frat boy, it is tough to get it out of your system in college if you want anything more than plain or ugly girls.

It is as if the idea of a man past the age of 25 wanting to live the Dan Bilzerian life is under such brutal attack that all such a man can hope for is relying on himself and some dumb luck to make it happen. I find it a bit strange that this sort of a lifestyle is shamed even on a game forum where something "more fulfilling" like a marriage with kids is promoted in regards to it.

I fully intend to spend a great deal of my life with this kind of a lifestyle over marriage and kids but I sometimes feel like where we are heading now as a society, it might be outlawed in the US.

Kind of sad to see how shamed and attacked it is after college.

[RDF]

^ What are you talking about? The average age of marriage has been going up for both men and women in the US for the past 30+ years and hasn't really slowed down. It's close to 30 years old now. More men (and women) are staying single for longer than ever before, and its easier today than any time in history to fuck lots of different women.

There's literally HUNDREDS of threads on this forum on various methods on how to get laid. The Tinder and Approach threads are like 100+ pages long. Meanwhile, the family subforum has only a few active threads.

Just because a few posters have noted that eventually, most men should start a family, doesn't mean that anybody is shaming you.

The one part of your post that I actually agree with is this:

(07-20-2018 12:20 AM)a beer is enough Wrote:  

You don't get "insecurities" out of your system by thinking them away or some bogus therapy, you do it through action.

Absolutely right. So take action! Go out and sleep around with some sexy girls man, we're rooting for you.

[birthday cat]

The OP's last post may have set the record for the post with the most straw man arguments in the history of RVF so I should explain that I'm not here to try to change his mind. The purpose of my writing in this section is usually to help me internalize concepts and to give less experienced guys the opportunity to learn from my experience. Those less experienced guys include many other forum members and lurkers so I'm not really here for the OP. I don't expect him to change his opinions but he is providing us with a good opportunity to learn from the experience that some of us have had.

I think it's also relevant to consider that some us have had the experience of living the player lifestyle in our 30s while OP has not had this experience. He is theorizing about what he thinks this experience will be like. I don't need to theorize about these things because I've already experienced them and I don't need to base my opinions solely on my own experience because I have several friends who have had similar experiences.

Let's be clear about a few things that I never said or implied. I never said that therapy or reading was the solution to this problem or that those things would replace taking action (although these things could be part of the solution for some guys). I never said that marriage was the solution or that marriage was better than player life or that player life was empty. I never said that you get rid of insecurities by thinking them away or some bogus therapy, instead of action (although having self awareness and thinking through your situation is probably a part of the process). I never attacked or shamed the player lifestyle whatsoever.

As I've already said there are many cases when a guy should try to get a lot more experience with women and the player lifestyle is a good fit for some guys. However, many guys on this forum including Roosh have talked about how you can overdo things, how you can go too far, and how this might create problems. There are many potential problems from inhibiting your ability to eventually pair-bond with a women, wasting massive amounts of time on the pursuit of women while ignoring more important aspects of your life, sex addiction, having a lifestyle that makes it difficult for people to be friends with you, having a lifestyle that involves more alcohol or drugs than you can handle, etc.

In the case of the OP he has insecurities about how he wasn't too successful with women in high school and college which is something I've experienced and many other guys here have experienced. He has expressed his frustration at how he couldn't anything more than plain or ugly girls because he wasn't an athlete or rich frat boy. His writing is full of over-analysis, rationalizations and straw man arguments. In my opinion it is very easy for someone with more experience to see that his desire to be a player is more about proving something to other people and proving something to himself than anything else. That by itself isn't necessarily a bad thing but it's very common for guys in this situation to overdo things and create problems for themselves.

There are many reasons to get a lot more experience with women and that is what most lurkers and newbies on this forum need. However, my suggestion is to do it for the right reasons and don't take it too far. Your life shouldn't revolve around getting laid. You don't want to be one of the guys making posts about I banged X girls in Y days - the guys who used to make those posts are usually the most critical of people who continue to make those posts because they understand how immature it is. You don't want to create problems for other people in your lives because you can't see beyond your desire to bang more girls. You don't want to get caught in a trap of negativity because most of the girls you attract are damaged emotionally and have all sorts of psychological problems that they will take out on you. You don't want to be a guy in your 20s who is over analyzing his plans to be a player in his 30s before he has even begun to become self aware of his insecurities. These are just a few examples.

Banging lots of girls has it's pros and cons just like anything else. I'm not saying to avoid it. That is a decision that each individual has to make for himself. However, almost everyone who has actually been down that path knows that you need to proceed with caution.

[rotinz]

(07-20-2018 12:20 AM)a beer is enough Wrote:  

I am going to disagree here, I think MOST guys need to have a stage of their lives when they are sleeping around or living this sort of a lifestyle. No amount of "therapy" or reading is going to replace action, action speaks above all. No matter how many times someone tells you marriage is better than the "empty" player life, at the end of the day, even if he listens to you and gets married he will be unfulfilled.

While I agree that a man cannot live this sort of life forever, few can, they can't go ahead and go right to marriage while having had an unfulfilled player life. I personally left a quality LTR because I wanted to chase this lifestyle.

You don't get "insecurities" out of your system by thinking them away or some bogus therapy, you do it through action. Now I agree that guys who get that certain lifestyle, live it after a while and have their fun might get those insecurities out of their systems but exceptions exist there.

Which makes me want to attack another point, the attack on the player life even in masculine spaces.

I get that some guys want marriage but I feel as if more and more, there is an attack on player life and the lifestyle of a man in his prime fucking lots of random women instead of choosing marriage. It is almost as if the religious right, feminism and masculine spaces have had this marriage of an idea where they agree at one point. Seems like this radical shift has happened, maybe with the death of PUA, to where everywhere you go this sort of life is shamed.

People think that every guy was able to get it out of his system in college but quite frankly, if you were not an athlete or rich frat boy, it is tough to get it out of your system in college if you want anything more than plain or ugly girls.

It is as if the idea of a man past the age of 25 wanting to live the Dan Bilzerian life is under such brutal attack that all such a man can hope for is relying on himself and some dumb luck to make it happen. I find it a bit strange that this sort of a lifestyle is shamed even on a game forum where something "more fulfilling" like a marriage with kids is promoted in regards to it.

I fully intend to spend a great deal of my life with this kind of a lifestyle over marriage and kids but I sometimes feel like where we are heading now as a society, it might be outlawed in the US.

Kind of sad to see how shamed and attacked it is after college.

I agree with most of this and this is also why all the hamstering needs to stop. People need to face their reality and stop trying to sugar coat their insecurities to feel better. For some reason it's very reason early development is very under valued on this forum and people act like it doesn't matter. If you don't have a good love life (not just sex but some loving relationships, maybe sex could possibly be enough for this) by a certain age it can have negative effects on you moving forward through life. I think early 20's is the deadline for this.

I'll post the 15 and in love meme even though it's stupid it has some truths to it.

"lying on the grass on a warm summer night, watching the stars, carelessly chatting
not worrying about rent, bills, student loans
only worry in life is how you're gonna cheat on that history test on monday
you'll never take a young, tight, hot-bodied girls virginity, pulling out to cum all over her back and have her look in your eyes and say "I love you"
you'll never have a girl around every day after school, pretend to be doing homework together, but instead just **** like rabbits
you're in your 20's now
gotta get a good job
gotta be a serious man now
all the good ones are taken
maybe a nice girl will eventually settle with you
they have already felt all those new exciting feelings before, and are usually jaded and bitter
you missed what it feels like to have not a care in the world other than making your girl happy
you have missed out on teenage love"

Obviously this is kind of stupid but it also has a lot of truth to it. If you haven't had a fulfilling love life before "real life" starts barring down on to many people then you'll be missing out. I don't think that deadline is 15 like the meme says but more around early 20's. Since that is around college age and a lot of people are still living with their parents and having their school/expenses covered by either their parents or student loans they are still in that innocence period and the loan repayment won't be in their face yet so they won't have to much "adult" stress. There is definitely a lot of people making it on their own in this age group but their is still a lot of people in a kind of extended adolescence. This contrast is probably why 18 years old to early 20's is seen by a lot of people as the best dating/fucking wise. That's why turning 18 years old then 21 and being in your early 20's is hyped up so much in movies and the media far more then any other age group, to be honest no age group is celebrated anywhere near this.

So what I'm basically saying to everyone that will read this both noobs and those that think they're experts if you haven't passed this age yet do everything in your power to enjoy your early 20's. Once you're out of that age range that 15 and in love meme will really start to sting.

For those that disagree with me what would you put the deadline at? For example what age do you think is to late to lose virginity at and once you pass that age you have probably missed out on a lot that you can't experience now that you're older? Let's not be blue pilled but just say facts and what we really think so anyone that reads this can get a good idea on how to move forward.

@birthday cat

Missing out on having sex with hot girls and even just having a relationship seems like it's the most depressing thing for men these days. That's why you see so many thirst men because like 10% of men are the ones that are really fucking like 90% of women. The amount of men that are virgins and the amount of men that only very rarely get any sex is far higher then is being currently reported. Basically all the stats you see are self reported, not many men will admit to being a virgin or only getting laid once every 2 years. The creation of easily accessible on line porn has not really placated mens sexual urges like a lot of people think but it has made them more aware of what they are missing out on. Sure they'll rub one out to pornhub but they'll still have a longing for the real thing.

[Bastard Sword]

(07-20-2018 10:22 AM)birthday cat Wrote:  

The OP's last post may have set the record for the post with the most straw man arguments in the history of RVF so I should explain that I'm not here to try to change his mind. The purpose of my writing in this section is usually to help me internalize concepts and to give less experienced guys the opportunity to learn from my experience. Those less experienced guys include many other forum members and lurkers so I'm not really here for the OP. I don't expect him to change his opinions but he is providing us with a good opportunity to learn from the experience that some of us have had.

I think it's also relevant to consider that some us have had the experience of living the player lifestyle in our 30s while OP has not had this experience. He is theorizing about what he thinks this experience will be like. I don't need to theorize about these things because I've already experienced them and I don't need to base my opinions solely on my own experience because I have several friends who have had similar experiences.

Let's be clear about a few things that I never said or implied. I never said that therapy or reading was the solution to this problem or that those things would replace taking action (although these things could be part of the solution for some guys). I never said that marriage was the solution or that marriage was better than player life or that player life was empty. I never said that you get rid of insecurities by thinking them away or some bogus therapy, instead of action (although having self awareness and thinking through your situation is probably a part of the process). I never attacked or shamed the player lifestyle whatsoever.

As I've already said there are many cases when a guy should try to get a lot more experience with women and the player lifestyle is a good fit for some guys. However, many guys on this forum including Roosh have talked about how you can overdo things, how you can go too far, and how this might create problems. There are many potential problems from inhibiting your ability to eventually pair-bond with a women, wasting massive amounts of time on the pursuit of women while ignoring more important aspects of your life, sex addiction, having a lifestyle that makes it difficult for people to be friends with you, having a lifestyle that involves more alcohol or drugs than you can handle, etc.

In the case of the OP he has insecurities about how he wasn't too successful with women in high school and college which is something I've experienced and many other guys here have experienced. He has expressed his frustration at how he couldn't anything more than plain or ugly girls because he wasn't an athlete or rich frat boy. His writing is full of over-analysis, rationalizations and straw man arguments. In my opinion it is very easy for someone with more experience to see that his desire to be a player is more about proving something to other people and proving something to himself than anything else. That by itself isn't necessarily a bad thing but it's very common for guys in this situation to overdo things and create problems for themselves.

There are many reasons to get a lot more experience with women and that is what most lurkers and newbies on this forum need. However, my suggestion is to do it for the right reasons and don't take it too far. Your life shouldn't revolve around getting laid. You don't want to be one of the guys making posts about I banged X girls in Y days - the guys who used to make those posts are usually the most critical of people who continue to make those posts because they understand how immature it is. You don't want to create problems for other people in your lives because you can't see beyond your desire to bang more girls. You don't want to get caught in a trap of negativity because most of the girls you attract are damaged emotionally and have all sorts of psychological problems that they will take out on you. You don't want to be a guy in your 20s who is over analyzing his plans to be a player in his 30s before he has even begun to become self aware of his insecurities. These are just a few examples.

Banging lots of girls has it's pros and cons just like anything else. I'm not saying to avoid it. That is a decision that each individual has to make for himself. However, almost everyone who has actually been down that path knows that you need to proceed with caution.

This is the post of the day.

If you want to go out and spit game and lead a hedonistic lifestyle, go for it. No one's saying it's a bad thing. Just those of us who have already gone down it know that it's easy to get burnt out on and can be bad for your lifestyle/mental health. I lived that life in college (went to party schools and gamed hard there) and it honestly kind of fucked me up, took me a year to recover my physical and mental health. I'm living a significantly more "boring" lifestyle (LTR, 9-5 job, couple of hobbies), and overall my life is dramatically better than when I was out there partying my ass off and spending hours on Tinder/daygame.

Beer, go do it if you want, and don't get held back by age or any other constraint. Just be aware that, while being fun, it comes with significant drawbacks and can very easily cut into other areas of your life.

[doc holliday]

It seems like there's no in between these days, everyone wants to be a player and with online dating and the general sexualization of the culture, even guys who have girlfriends and are getting laid regularly aren't satisfied just having the one. Same with women, they have more options than ever so they can easily hop on that cock carousel and find another guy if they get tired of the guy they're currently having sex with. More and more women are doing this, even girls who would normally be more chaste. Then you have so many guys like Beer who have become completely obsessed with this mythical player lifestyle who in a different time would have had a few girlfriends, gotten laid here and there with some randoms and then settled down and had a family. I've only known a few natural players, guys for whom it was just so easy to have sex with lots of different women without even trying very hard. Without the benefit of things like Tinder or SA, they could just go out, approach, get approached (this is to me a true player,a guy who can get laid without even having to approach), lay on the charm and charisma and get laid every weekend. Very few guys are like that in reality.

Sad thing is, Birthday Cat is right, the main idea should be to gain some experience with women so you know how to deal with them and to gain confidence in yourself. To know that you can go get a girl when you want and need one and then handle them when you have one. Too many guys take it too far though and turn it into an obsession which is highly destructive. Again, they want to become some mystical Chad that everyone is in awe of. One very good friend of mine, by far the best natural player I have ever seen, could be sucking face with a chick he cold approached within 5 minutes of meeting her and he's become very wealthy to top it off, has a ton of personal demons that he fights. He was even married once but got divorced after 2 years which was no surprise. Great guy, I love him to death but he's very self centered and had some prescription drug issues so it's hard to be around him for too long. Most guys are not natural players like my friend in the least but online game has created so many pseudo-players. It's kind of ironic, in the past, guys would be quicker to get into an LTR because unless you were naturally good at it, it took way more effort to be a player but today guys can pretend they're real players. Yet, inspite of the fact that they can set up dates while taking a dump, they're more miserable than ever. "Everyone is doing it and I missed out so I have to do it too so I can prove myself as a great player" type of mentality. Or if they're with a really great girl, they start wondering after a while about if they're missing out on a few more lays. In the end, everyone has to do what's right for themselves but there's no doubt that this endless pursuit of a sex-filled, hedonistic player lifestyle is highly destructive, mentally, physically and emotionally. My natural player friend is a perfect example of this.

[a beer is enough]

Now Doc's post highlights the very thing I was talking about but I will also address the general theme of this thread.

Maybe I am in the minority here when I say this, tough to tell, but I do not think there is anything wrong with a guy pursuing a hedonistic player lifestyle especially if he missed out on it growing up. If anything, I'd rather a guy with that desire pursue it than get married with kids where he is miserable, now he is seriously living a lie with the well-being of others close to him at stake.

I think that most men need their wild years to happen, without them, they end up being unfulfilled in life. Now the degree of wild can vary a lot but my point being, a guy does not need to rush into marriage or LTRs until he has this part of life out of his system.

A part of me believes that one of the reasons the divorce rate is so high is because guys who missed out on the fun growing up married the first girl they fell in love with and then realized how they could got more out of the game before settling down.

I think it is only natural for guys who have been through the player life to stop younger guys from going to it, natural as in it is human nature. It is the male version of how post-wall women who rode the cock carousel throughout their youth are now mad at younger women for doing the same thing they did. So for lurkers and others, I definitely advise them to beware of the guys who might come off as well-meaning but are just try to push younger men off of the path of pursuing a lifestyle they really want or at least make them feel guilty for it.

And it all goes back to the point I was trying to make in my last post, the idea of a guy in his prime pursuing the player lifestyle is under attack from all kinds of people.

This thread is somewhat of an example of that but the most uncomfortable part about it all is the fact that this is one of the last places you would expect such a lifestyle to be under attack. I mean if it is even slightly under attack on here, can we even imagine how much mainstream society will attack it?

And as for morals and motives of it....

Lets not go down that road. If a guy wants to fuck lots of women and live the hedonistic lifestyle, he has every right to live it for whatever reason. I genuinely believe that guys who have put off settling down after the age of 25 have a chip on their shoulder, they do it because to some degree, they have something to prove to themselves or some sort of a past demon. I don't think talking around it is the right way to do it, the best path is to go as far as possible with it so as long as it does not hurt your finances or mess up your life by getting you into legal trouble.

Insecurities are healthy because they warn you that there is time to improve on things and push you to be better. A lot of the most successful people out there are insecure which is why they work so hard to get the goals they want, it is that chip on your shoulder to be better. To an extreme it can be unhealthy but a bit of insecurity leads to that push to get that better life because without it, you will always settle for less than average anyways.

That leads me to a final question this thread made me ask.

Was the whole "30s is a man's prime" saying this misleading?

I think that a lot of men got misled by thinking living this sort of life would be easier in their 30s when really, it seems as if college was the best time to do it, who knows.

[rotinz]

(07-21-2018 01:29 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:  

I think it is only natural for guys who have been through the player life to stop younger guys from going to it, natural as in it is human nature. It is the male version of how post-wall women who rode the cock carousel throughout their youth are now mad at younger women for doing the same thing they did. So for lurkers and others, I definitely advise them to beware of the guys who might come off as well-meaning but are just try to push younger men off of the path of pursuing a lifestyle they really want or at least make them feel guilty for it.

And it all goes back to the point I was trying to make in my last post, the idea of a guy in his prime pursuing the player lifestyle is under attack from all kinds of people.

This thread is somewhat of an example of that but the most uncomfortable part about it all is the fact that this is one of the last places you would expect such a lifestyle to be under attack. I mean if it is even slightly under attack on here, can we even imagine how much mainstream society will attack it?

This couldn't be more true and the parallel you made with older women being mad at younger women for riding the cock carousel is extremely accurate. The same men that demonize the player lifestyle are the ones that keep asking about how to get with 18 year old girls when they're 40. Every age demographic wants to fuck someone 18-25 years old and they get mad when people are to successful with that age group.

[doc holliday]

Look Beer, why are you overanalyzing this. If you want to go live a player lifestyle, just do it and stop talking about it and stop caring what anyone else thinks. All some of us were saying was that living that lifestyle isn't all that it's cracked up to be. It has it's pros but it has a lot of cons too. The guys who have done it for a few years are telling you about the cons because they've lived that life and can tell you about both sides. Problem is that you don't want to hear any of the negatives about it, you want to be validated by only positive things. Why do you worry whether you can do this in your 30s. Just worry about doing it today and tomorrow and forget about even thinking about what you'll be doing lifestyle wise a few years from now. No one knows what the future will bring.

What you should not do though which you have been cautioned against is to jump full on into hedonism without taking care of business today. That is just flat out stupidity, but alas you want to just don't want to hear that story so your twisting yourself into a pretzel. Another point I was making is that guys like you are a dime a dozen these days, you get some mediocre lays online and now you think you wanna be some Rico Suave pseudo-player, willing to do stupid things just to score some pussy and then have everyone revere you for your pussy prowess. Of course, now you also think you deserve only the hottest pussy. Honestly, I think you need to stop posting this nonsense and just go and do what you want to do. If it works out the way you've planned it then great, come back and tell us after you've done it successfully. If not, then pick a better plan and execute that instead. You do need to stop looking for approval of your life choices though, your life is on you and you only.

[Mizo1234]

(07-18-2018 05:38 PM)Mizo1234 Wrote:  

OP most of his threads are either over-analysis or non sense

This is what I said early on

[jordypip23]

(07-20-2018 01:41 PM)Bastard Sword Wrote:  

(07-20-2018 10:22 AM)birthday cat Wrote:  

The OP's last post may have set the record for the post with the most straw man arguments in the history of RVF so I should explain that I'm not here to try to change his mind. The purpose of my writing in this section is usually to help me internalize concepts and to give less experienced guys the opportunity to learn from my experience. Those less experienced guys include many other forum members and lurkers so I'm not really here for the OP. I don't expect him to change his opinions but he is providing us with a good opportunity to learn from the experience that some of us have had.

I think it's also relevant to consider that some us have had the experience of living the player lifestyle in our 30s while OP has not had this experience. He is theorizing about what he thinks this experience will be like. I don't need to theorize about these things because I've already experienced them and I don't need to base my opinions solely on my own experience because I have several friends who have had similar experiences.

Let's be clear about a few things that I never said or implied. I never said that therapy or reading was the solution to this problem or that those things would replace taking action (although these things could be part of the solution for some guys). I never said that marriage was the solution or that marriage was better than player life or that player life was empty. I never said that you get rid of insecurities by thinking them away or some bogus therapy, instead of action (although having self awareness and thinking through your situation is probably a part of the process). I never attacked or shamed the player lifestyle whatsoever.

As I've already said there are many cases when a guy should try to get a lot more experience with women and the player lifestyle is a good fit for some guys. However, many guys on this forum including Roosh have talked about how you can overdo things, how you can go too far, and how this might create problems. There are many potential problems from inhibiting your ability to eventually pair-bond with a women, wasting massive amounts of time on the pursuit of women while ignoring more important aspects of your life, sex addiction, having a lifestyle that makes it difficult for people to be friends with you, having a lifestyle that involves more alcohol or drugs than you can handle, etc.

In the case of the OP he has insecurities about how he wasn't too successful with women in high school and college which is something I've experienced and many other guys here have experienced. He has expressed his frustration at how he couldn't anything more than plain or ugly girls because he wasn't an athlete or rich frat boy. His writing is full of over-analysis, rationalizations and straw man arguments. In my opinion it is very easy for someone with more experience to see that his desire to be a player is more about proving something to other people and proving something to himself than anything else. That by itself isn't necessarily a bad thing but it's very common for guys in this situation to overdo things and create problems for themselves.

There are many reasons to get a lot more experience with women and that is what most lurkers and newbies on this forum need. However, my suggestion is to do it for the right reasons and don't take it too far. Your life shouldn't revolve around getting laid. You don't want to be one of the guys making posts about I banged X girls in Y days - the guys who used to make those posts are usually the most critical of people who continue to make those posts because they understand how immature it is. You don't want to create problems for other people in your lives because you can't see beyond your desire to bang more girls. You don't want to get caught in a trap of negativity because most of the girls you attract are damaged emotionally and have all sorts of psychological problems that they will take out on you. You don't want to be a guy in your 20s who is over analyzing his plans to be a player in his 30s before he has even begun to become self aware of his insecurities. These are just a few examples.

Banging lots of girls has it's pros and cons just like anything else. I'm not saying to avoid it. That is a decision that each individual has to make for himself. However, almost everyone who has actually been down that path knows that you need to proceed with caution.

This is the post of the day.

If you want to go out and spit game and lead a hedonistic lifestyle, go for it. No one's saying it's a bad thing. Just those of us who have already gone down it know that it's easy to get burnt out on and can be bad for your lifestyle/mental health. I lived that life in college (went to party schools and gamed hard there) and it honestly kind of fucked me up, took me a year to recover my physical and mental health. I'm living a significantly more "boring" lifestyle (LTR, 9-5 job, couple of hobbies), and overall my life is dramatically better than when I was out there partying my ass off and spending hours on Tinder/daygame.

Beer, go do it if you want, and don't get held back by age or any other constraint. Just be aware that, while being fun, it comes with significant drawbacks and can very easily cut into other areas of your life.

I gotta agree here. Maybe it's my age at this point (mid-30's), but I'd much rather deal with a few quality experiences to tide over the time than a shitload of mediocre quantity.

[a beer is enough]

First off, props to Doc, that is how a real man handles this situation. I admit that my post could have been perceived as harsh but the way Doc puts thing, its no secret now why he is so respected on here.

I do agree, at times I have this issue of looking for approval but this thread was made more for the sake of gaining knowledge. It was titled if hookup culture is a young man's game because of an observation I made and I wanted to hear what others thought. The other reason it was made was to get deeper into the thought of 30s being a man's prime.

I thought if they are a man's prime, why are men in that age group not really living that kind of a hedonist lifestyle?

What would it take to live the full on hedonist lifestyle at that age?

I didn't want to make this thread about me but I will make it about some guys in my situation.

Some of us who missed out, once we have the resources and freedom, do want to go all in to this sort of a lifestyle and if opportunities exist, then it be great to hear about being an exception. I could see a guy who had the hookup culture hedonist lifestyle in high school and college thinking it is immature afterwards but for the many guys that did not, well, we want our redemption in life and just a few hookups is not going to do it. This is me explaining the situation and as for the cons, they apply to everything in life.

As for a thought of mines about this thread, as uncomfortable as it may be, it is nice to see the truth coming to light.

I remember being in college, depressed and not a part of the cool crowd where the hookups were going on. All along, I worked hard in getting a nice job afterwards and I succeeded, had a couple fun years after graduation even. I told myself that one day, it will be my turn to experience that sort of a life. I remember hearing how 30s will be a man's prime and I thought to myself that if that is the case, then I will be in my 30s living it up and avoiding LTRs, marriages and relationships like the plague. Pretty sure lots of young guys who missed out on college felt this way.

Now I realize that while there is a possibility this lifestyle of sleeping with hot women without having to touch an LTR or marriage is possible, I also realize the additional obstacles that exist. I realize how even with money and above average looks, it will be tougher to do or at least not as enjoyable as it could have been in college.

Then comes a time in a guy's life where he realizes that if he wants it that bad, he will deal with the obstacles in the way. I do think that if there isn't already, there is going to be a war on bachelors in their prime.

[doc holliday]

Beer, I appreciate the sentiment but I think Birthday Cat really nailed it and I was just following up on his great post. I think you can still have the experiences you want with different women and the party lifestyle if that's what you want. Mine and everyone else's advice to you though is to just take a balanced approach rather than diving in head on. A lot of guys start blooming and coming into their own in their mid to late 20s, no doubt at all about it and you can and should do the same. By this time, guys start having their careers gain more momentum which translates into more money and more confidence. There are all sorts of stories of guys on here who came into their own after college and really started having success with pussy and you can and should do the same.

Definitely living in the heart of a big city ( I can't recommend a place like Chicago enough for young men like you) and finding guys in your age group to hang with is something every young man should do. Having a fun crew to roll with can not be understated, even if it's just two-three guys. Pussy will come and go but your male friends should be constants in your life. Having good friends like that can keep you invigorated for a lifetime. Nothing will replicate the college life you lament missing out on as much as talking and laughing to your good buddies about the chick you fucked the night before. I'm not even playing the game anymore and I still love hearing the pussy stories of my buddies, laughing and joking with them. As far as what society thinks, who gives a fuck? All that matters is that you're happy with yourself and what other people think is unimportant. Number one thing that people should do to be at peace and happy inside is to not care what others think. Stop overanalyzing, continue on your pussy quest, build a crew of guys to hang with, continue to stack money while building your career and have a good life. Just be smart, stay away from problem bitches and surround yourself with high quality people. It may not be easy, it could take time but you're young and you have time, as long as you keep working at it. Not much more I can say man. It's your life, go build it and live it.

[a beer is enough]

You not only hit the nail right on the head Doc, you hit it on the head really fucking hard when you brought up having male friends. I think this whole experience is absolutely nothing if you do not have any male friends, or friends in general, to enjoy it with. Not only am I talking about this in regards to game and women but also hedonism in general when it involves the party life. Who would genuinely enjoying partying or going out to cool events alone?

The other thing you are also right about is that it is not easy to make these sorts of guy friends. I have found that my player lifestyle of approaching women and being on dating apps has not sat well with friends I have made recently being in an area of the country that isn't as socially liberal as NYC. It is a part of the reason why I wanted to get a side-job in nightlife so bad in my other thread and wanted to be involved in that scene so much since a lot of guys who are naturals and good with women, or have been with a lot of women, tend to be in that scene and those kinds of guy friends are not easy to find.

I think the value of what I like to call game-friendly friends cannot be overstated enough, it makes the whole process 10x easier as I found from personal experience myself.

I'd talk more about my aspirations and what I want out of life but I'll stop here.

That being said, I would like for this thread to stop being about me since I genuinely believe this topic is a good discussion to be had since it digs into so many things.