[Richard Turpin]

Has anyone else been following this one?

If not, basically twelve kids and their football team coach have been trapped in an underground cave complex in Thailand for 12 days. The cave is slowly filling with water and the monsoon season is about to start any day now.

And most of them can't swim! They are talking about giving them diving lessons in order to give them a chance.

They are trying to work out ways to rescue the boys, the most likely option being to attach full-face oxygen masks to them and accompany them on the long, dangerous swim back.

To reinforce just how risky this is going to be, it's emerged that an experienced former Navy Seal has sadly died while trying to reach their cavern;

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...-cave.html

God only knows how those kids must be feeling. And the coach, whom I'm certain has realised that he will be the very last one to be rescued (if at all).

Fuck knows what they were doing down there in the first place, but I'll be taking my kids swimming as soon as I get the chance, as stuff like this reminds me that the very least you can do for your kids is teach them to swim!

At first, I got the impression that the authorities were hoping for a happy ending, but with the death of an experienced diver and the rescue team now referring to their being 'limited options of rescue' for the first time, things have taken a grim turn.

[Laner]

Surreal, awful chain of events.

Its times like this where I think, "I bet these parents wish they lived in America".

When a boy falls down a well, the whole damn country figures out a way to save him. I really hope the Thais figure this out, the knowledge that there is a group of kids dying in a cave is just too much.

God speed.

[Richard Turpin]

Yep, though in fairness, there are now over 2000 people at the scene trying to help. Soldiers, engineers, paramedics and volunteers.

If this happened in the UK, they would just leave them to die;

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/...drain.html

Basically, a man caught his foot in a drain during floods and died four hours later in front of everyone's eyes from hypothermia. I'm sure he would have accepted having his foot sawn off it would have saved his life.

[Seadog]

(07-06-2018 03:21 AM)Richard Turpin Wrote:  

Has anyone else been following this one?

If not, basically twelve kids and their football team coach have been trapped in an underground cave complex in Thailand for 12 days. The cave is slowly filling with water and the monsoon season is about to start any day now.

And most of them can't swim! They are talking about giving them diving lessons in order to give them a chance.

They are trying to work out ways to rescue the boys, the most likely option being to attach full-face oxygen masks to them and accompany them on the long, dangerous swim back.

To reinforce just how risky this is going to be, it's emerged that an experienced former Navy Seal has sadly died while trying to reach their cavern;

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...-cave.html

God only knows how those kids must be feeling. And the coach, whom I'm certain has realised that he will be the very last one to be rescued (if at all).

Fuck knows what they were doing down there in the first place, but I'll be taking my kids swimming as soon as I get the chance, as stuff like this reminds me that the very least you can do for your kids is teach them to swim!

At first, I got the impression that the authorities were hoping for a happy ending, but with the death of an experienced diver and the rescue team now referring to their being 'limited options of rescue' for the first time, things have taken a grim turn.

I've been following this story intently, as I've done a considerable amount of diving over in that part of the world, and one of the guys helping out has several mutual friends from tech diving circles which turn out to be surprisingly small, and have been considering getting into cave diving.

I'm once again however absolutely flabbergasted by the lack of ability to swim over there, and what stuck in my head as I first read the story. I lived in Indonesia for 2.5 years, 18000 islands, more coastline than 95% of countries, and nobody can frigging swim. The way it was explained to me by smarter colleagues was that since a lot of people fish to survive but no one is educated, the only point of reference they have is seeing some of the "monsters" pulled out of the ocean, or the knowledge that some people/boats never return. Therefore even spending time in the water to learn how to swim is a risk no one will take, this despite the fact that it could prove very useful given the very likely occurrence when your overloaded, unmaintained wooded boat capsizes, but it's like the thought chain never goes that far.

I've helped out with discover scuba diving courses where people who have never been in the water decide to give it a try on vacation. Sometimes it's fine, some times it's just a huge panicky clusterfuck. Muslim girls trying to dive in blue jeans and head scarfs. The most basic concepts like a "swim suit" literally being foreign to them.

I also had to do a Helicopter egress course over there for offshore work, which involves being put upside down in a cage 6' down, then getting out a window and surfacing. I was fine, but it took half a dozen rescues by support divers until some guys finally sort of got it but not really, and who I wouldn't bet on during a real emergency.

[Macumazahn]

I've been avoiding it.

Egregious, toxic masculinity everywhere.

All the news reports are full of men; moving earth, pumping water and operating machinery in an incredibly difficult environment.

I can barely stand to watch it.

As though swimming a couple of miles in a flooded cave is any big deal.

They barely give any airtime to the most important member of the team. The female US Air Force Captain from the PR team.

[mikado]

You guys think it's that easy to learn to swim.

When we were young my siblings and I did not learn to swim because as we were raised by a single mom who had to work her ass off to provide for us, getting us swimming lessons (not in Physical Éducation course, very few pools exist in Senegal and they were very far from our home) was off her major préoccupations.

Staying anonymous on this, but a lot of activities /skills that 15/16 yo kids have, well I don't. Because the older you become, the more difficult it is to take lessons in these. Especially since I don't have enough money/time to get those skills, lessons for adults are freaking expensive.

Right now my swimming ability is subpar, and there is 50% chance I would be in the same situation as these kids, because I never got over the aquaphobia I developped from lack of experience/mockery/social anxiety.


My gym vas a pool, and I see all the time African people from 20 to 50 who stay on the side of the pool. There are no pools in Africa except for the rich kids. I remember some classmates who would always brag about going to the pool/having rollers/making trips /going to the cinéma...Yeah, only 2 cinemas at the time, quite expensive also. All of this perpetuates a vicious cycle. You are ashamed to not fit in, so you act like you do. You use the excuse of your mother needing you at home when they invite you to go to the pool. And the few times you go (exceptionnally, after spending 3 weeks convincing Mom),knowing you are among the 1% most brillant at school (creating jealousy), some kids take "revenge" by humiliating you and your swimming skills. Everyone laughs at you and you get bullied at school. Rinse and repeat, in college studies.

Swimming and I have a huge hate relationship.

Praying for these guys.

[Que enspastic]

I grew up in Australia. I knew how to swim before I can even remember my first swimming lessons at 5. My girlfriend can’t. It’s weird trying to explain how to swim because it’s so effortless I’m just doing figure 8s with my hands and staying afloat

It’s not looking good for these kids by the way

I’d want to anaesthetise them, strap on a face mask that can’t be removed and get them out

[mikado]

It's like dancing for me. I can perform several figures essentially from my head without planning any move. Several of my friends just can't move even when I teach them.

I guess some things are just more natural for some... Would include game in that list.


Yeah, the news are not very positive for the kids.

[Bienvenuto]

(07-06-2018 07:09 AM)Que enspastic Wrote:  

I grew up in Australia. I knew how to swim before I can even remember my first swimming lessons at 5. My girlfriend can’t. It’s weird trying to explain how to swim because it’s so effortless I’m just doing figure 8s with my hands and staying afloat

It’s not looking good for these kids by the way

I’d want to anaesthetise them, strap on a face mask that can’t be removed and get them out

Yeah maybe Im missing something here but they now, by the looks of it, have US Navy Seals, British SBS, Thai Navy Seals, The best cave divers.. all on the scene. Plus everybody is offering their help and as Thailand is a pro-US ally I can't see why those guys wouldn't use their tech and comms/ sonar when diving.

They were talking about running a cable in to the cave so that the kids could talk to their families. If they can get a line in, surely they can get a steel line with clips and runners in there.

Im all for strapping these kids down, putting them on a re-breather each and escorting them out.

The problem is that there is a hole that the cave divers had to negotiate that they even had to take their tanks off to get through, this is why anaesthetising them won't work, they have to be conscious to know when to hold their breath and when to accept a change of mouthpiece.

Its easy to be an armchair expert about this when the best brains in the world are struggling to solve the problem.

I hope it works out.

[Saweeep]

I've just read a huge thread on another forum I found whilst trying to figure out why this was so complicated.

It's basically a complete clusterfuck with there being zero options that are even likely to work, let alone guaranteed.

Poor kids...I reckon they're all gonna die

[Suits]

(07-06-2018 07:54 AM)Bienvenuto Wrote:  

The problem is that there is a hole that the cave divers had to negotiate that they even had to take their tanks off to get through, this is why anaesthetising them won't work, they have to be conscious to know when to hold their breath and when to accept a change of mouthpiece.

Ok, that explains a lot.

[Architekt]

Elon Musk has offered his assistance to the Thai Government.

One of the plans he proposed was inserting a giant tube that would expand to become an air tunnel from the start to the end that the kids could just walk through

[churros]

(07-06-2018 08:09 AM)Saweeep Wrote:  

I've just read a huge thread on another forum I found whilst trying to figure out why this was so complicated.

It's basically a complete clusterfuck with there being zero options that are even likely to work, let alone guaranteed.

Poor kids...I reckon they're all gonna die

Link?

[Richard Turpin]

Yes, none of this will be as simple as anyone was hoping for. An unconscious kid (some of them are 16 or older) will be a dead weight to move around underwater whether you're an expert diver or not. And a conscious kid? Disorientated, panicking and thrashing about? And to do this more than a dozen times! Awful scenario.

[Gambler]

I saw this case in the news, but still can't find how did these kids end up so deep in that cave?

[Jetset]

(07-06-2018 04:13 AM)Seadog Wrote:  

I'm once again however absolutely flabbergasted by the lack of ability to swim over there, and what stuck in my head as I first read the story. I lived in Indonesia for 2.5 years, 18000 islands, more coastline than 95% of countries, and nobody can frigging swim. The way it was explained to me by smarter colleagues was that since a lot of people fish to survive but no one is educated, the only point of reference they have is seeing some of the "monsters" pulled out of the ocean, or the knowledge that some people/boats never return. Therefore even spending time in the water to learn how to swim is a risk no one will take, this despite the fact that it could prove very useful given the very likely occurrence when your overloaded, unmaintained wooded boat capsizes, but it's like the thought chain never goes that far.

I struggle with something similar on stories like this.

Where I grew up, "the mines" were a major employer, and also the principle source of family tragedy. It was common enough for families to lose several members and refuse to go in that you could mark a checkbox on job applications refusing underground work upfront. My family was one of those, the decision was passed down through several generations: we don't do that.

To me, because of that experience, recreational cave diving looks like the dumbest hobby imaginable. You want to talk about privilege? Privilege is thinking "LOL, this'll be fun" when you actually just have no idea what you're doing and no regard for all the men smarter and stronger than you who died like that trying to earn a living.

I get it, I'm not claustrophobic and it must be a hell of an adrenaline rush, but when I read passages like "where the tunnel narrows to shoulder-width", with divers pushing their equipment ahead of them to fit it through, I'm thinking about the fact that my grandfather would not do that for a middle-class income supported by heavy machinery, dynamite, and a national labor union. Yet this goofball coach leads these kids down there for free and drags a rescuer, a national hero, to his death trying to clean up the mess he made?

Jesus Christ. Fuck that guy. I hope he survives so the fathers can straighten him out.

In any case, it's my understanding that they've currently given up on drilling and are trying to determine whether or not there might be another entrance to the cave system that will provide better access. It's also my understanding that oxygen levels are extremely low. This does not sound promising at all.

[TheFinalEpic]

Cave diving is one of the most dangerous things you can do. Being inexperienced at diving, plus not knowing how to swim, plus cave diving would be suicide. One diver has already lost his life, it is not looking good at this moment.

[Hell_Is_Like_Newark]

Thais are generally terrified of water. You have Thais who grew up with access to beaches yet never learned to swim. When you see Thais on snorkeling trips, they are wearing life jackets and trying to snorkel in no more than five feet of water.

My wife is typical. She grew up on a naval base with access to a beautiful private beach. Yet the only member of her family that can swim is her Dad, who was forced to learn by the Thai navy.

Learning to swim I have found is really a western thing. People in Asia (Japan excluded) don't have a culture of your kids learning to swim.

Case in point (India):

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=udB7N_1527149827

[Cobra]

(07-06-2018 05:50 AM)Macumazahn Wrote:  

I've been avoiding it.

Egregious, toxic masculinity everywhere.

All the news reports are full of men; moving earth, pumping water and operating machinery in an incredibly difficult environment.

I can barely stand to watch it.

As though swimming a couple of miles in a flooded cave is any big deal.

They barely give any airtime to the most important member of the team. The female US Air Force Captain from the PR team.

While I hate feminism and man hate just the same, I'd rather sometimes, we leave the political/feminist/race aspects out of threads with tragedy and/or children involved.

It's disconcerting to be honest.

[Saweeep]

(07-06-2018 08:17 AM)Gambler Wrote:  

I saw this case in the news, but still can't find how did these kids end up so deep in that cave?

Seems it's a local tradition to run to the end of the caves and back.

If you've spent any time in Thailand you will know that critical thinking and sensible, life preserving actions are the exception rather than the norm.

It is well known there that you don't go in these caves from July till the end of the monsoon season; these guys thought the week before therefore would be fine. Sadly the weather doesn't follow such a rigid schedule and they got rained in.

[Saweeep]

(07-06-2018 08:55 AM)Cobra Wrote:  

(07-06-2018 05:50 AM)Macumazahn Wrote:  

I've been avoiding it.

Egregious, toxic masculinity everywhere.

All the news reports are full of men; moving earth, pumping water and operating machinery in an incredibly difficult environment.

I can barely stand to watch it.

As though swimming a couple of miles in a flooded cave is any big deal.

They barely give any airtime to the most important member of the team. The female US Air Force Captain from the PR team.

While I hate feminism and man hate just the same, I'd rather sometimes, we leave the political/feminist/race aspects out of threads with tragedy and/or children involved.

It's disconcerting to be honest.

Could be worse mate...I mean, the Jews haven't been blamed yet; although I feel it is only a matter of time

[Mage]

It's amazing how something basic, like ability to swim that is a basic thing for any western child, is almost a rare superpower in most parts of the world.

West is the best.

We should accuse all Asians and blacks, trying to learn swimming, of cultural appropriation.

As a child I was captivated by the exoticism of East, the more I learn the more I get disappointed in the East and the more I appreciate West.

We should talk about these facts and differences more so that the young generation understand how blessed they are and stop hating their culture like leftists program them to do.

[ChicagoFire]

Heard about this but never fully looked into it. My views on the news is that it's propaganda.

Why can't they send in a remote controlled robot or a drone? Based on what OP says an experienced SEAL already lost his life. I hope everybody can be saved but that doesn't look like it's the case

[Jetset]

Press conference imminent with Thai interior minister. I'm assuming they've made a decision about what to do, and hope it isn't just to announce a catastrophe.

[Saweeep]

(07-06-2018 09:32 AM)ChicagoFire Wrote:  

Heard about this but never fully looked into it. My views on the news is that it's propaganda.

Why can't they send in a remote controlled robot or a drone? Based on what OP says an experienced SEAL already lost his life. I hope everybody can be saved but that doesn't look like it's the case

Even if such a robot existed, what are you proposing it does, exactly?