[Ohiogang]

Lets say that that within a certain time period, the U.S slammed tariffs on all foreign goods, legalized all drugs, somehow managed to curb local politics and pork barrel spending, legalized all drugs and experienced a boom due to the aforementioned, banned privatized prisons and curbed union power.

Lets say we hypothetically somehow have some sort of functional operating moon base, and we managed to discover trillions of gold deposits, Helium reserves, natural gases, ore, water, oil, rare-earth minerals and managed to bring it back to Earth overriding the economic cost of actually sending a shuttle between the two locations, monopolized every mining location on the moon and space travel/technology. We somehow in the coming decade set a national government infrastructure recovery program and switched from a fossil fuel economy to one based on algae based/green energy fuels; we payed off most of our costs and debt through oil money we got from bombing other countries. We somehow managed to make new technology giving superior fast internet speed to every location in the U.S alone. We destroy every bland suburb in existence, redesign them into intricately designed towns, where instead of people living separately, people communicate and walk* on a regular basis. We cut our obesity rates by half and remove all the power feminists and females have in this country in the legal system. We rebuild our highway and road system, what happens then? Will China then surpass us as will other countries?

[oldnemesis]

When all this happens, Jesus will come to the US and says, you guys did great job, welcome to the heaven!
But since the US population overall is too brainwashed and plain stupid for anything like that to happen, you are safe in China.

[defguy]

Many of my friends in higher places say that China is just a scare tactic used to control people. Like many other scare tactics used to control people.

My observation is based on Simple economics: Next recession hits (historically there is a recession every 5-10 years) and China govt. starts interfering with businesses and money and foreign investors pull out. Then the China empire collapses overnight and China returns to the Socialist regime that theyve always been.

[Aliblahba]

(09-25-2011 07:47 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

When all this happens, Jesus will come to the US and says, you guys did great job, welcome to the heaven!
But since the US population overall is too brainwashed and plain stupid for anything like that to happen, you are safe in China.

Your omniscience is greatly appreciated here in the U.S. Oldnemesis. I think though your time would be better spent writing letters to Americas political hierarchy, than trying to explain such complex ideas to us peons on this forum. I beseech you to let us wallow in our own ignorance and spend your time educating those that have the influence to save us.

In the meantime....... can you do the happy dance for us?

[attachment=3207]

[Samseau]

Hugh Hendry, who has been anticipating a massive depression in China, has recently seen his hedge fund make profits around 40%.

So much for China being the next USA, huh? China is fucked, the euro is fucked, but the USA is the least fucked of them all so far.

[mycleverid]

The nice thing with America is that we re-invent ourselves quickly.

The Euro is a cute idea, but the Europeans leaders lack the fortitude it takes to make a currency stick in hard times. China has been building giant empty malls and leaving the derelict while they send more workers to build more giant empty malls.

For all of America's faults, when the time came to defend our currency, we did it. When the time came that we were building empty shit and then building more empty shit, we stopped it.

America will get through this. The American worker will adjust and when he does he will awaken to a country with old school energy sector jobs and a huge demand for even more engineers than we had pre-recession, when we were already screaming for engineers.

The biggest thing that hurts America is that we incentivize poor choices of college major and career path. Frankly, we should tell kids who want a liberal arts degree to pay for it their fucking selves and cut them off from all Pell grants, loans and FAFSA aid. And we should tell the doctors and engineers and computer programmers that they're getting a free ride.

[Kish]

(09-26-2011 10:52 PM)mycleverid Wrote:  

The biggest thing that hurts America is that we incentivize poor choices of college major and career path. Frankly, we should tell kids who want a liberal arts degree to pay for it their fucking selves and cut them off from all Pell grants, loans and FAFSA aid. And we should tell the doctors and engineers and computer programmers that they're getting a free ride.

I think the sad truth is that those Liberal arts majors will never be able to pay those loans back. Eventually that bubble will burst and the American tax payer will have to foot the bill.

[tenderman100]

(09-26-2011 09:37 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

So much for China being the next USA, huh? China is fucked, the euro is fucked, but the USA is the least fucked of them all so far.

Exactly.

China is in a race against the inevitable. And the inevitable is huge pollution, incredible numbers of poor people, and a huge disparity in the male to female ratio.

They are frantically trying to modernize against the sweep of history.

Expect huge disruption.

The USA? We're in the best shape of all...we can actually solve our problems by shrinking government, making our currency stronger, and letting markets works. That means housing has to collapse to 1980 levels, unions have to be destroyed, and regulations that stifle innovation have to be completely washed away.

The USA has the most dynamic economy in the history of the world. We can continue to be that kind of economy. But we have to have the will to tell certain segments of society who leech on the productive work of others to go fuck themselves.

[Samseau]

(09-26-2011 10:52 PM)mycleverid Wrote:  

The biggest thing that hurts America is that we incentivize poor choices of college major and career path. Frankly, we should tell kids who want a liberal arts degree to pay for it their fucking selves and cut them off from all Pell grants, loans and FAFSA aid. And we should tell the doctors and engineers and computer programmers that they're getting a free ride.

You do realize that prior to 2008, kids were told to "major in whatever they want", right? And that they'd be "fine with any degree, as long as they got a degree", right?


And you further realize that if we send all of our students into medicine, engineering, and programming, we'll just have a bubble of too many doctors, engineers, and programmers, right?


The problem isn't our colleges. It's our education system itself. Far too many wasted years of children's lives that only serve to build social pathologies. Furthermore, command economies don't work. It is impossible to plan for the future in exquisite detail, as the failure of China proves.

"Thinking ahead" = Human folly. No one predicts the future.

The best education we could give to children is a basic one that teaches them only the essentials of life. This could be accomplished in 6 years instead of 12.

Afterwards children would be required to do nothing. They would not be given free handouts to attend college or anything either. As a result, children would grow into self-sufficient adults who pursue practical activities in areas they would naturally be talented in.

The consequences would be an economy full of people with large savings, highly developed skill-sets, and geniuses at the top of every field who got there only through the love of their pursuits.


Today's education system sucks the life out of children and leaves them with no alternatives, once they hit adulthood, except to continue their "education". As a result there are millions of collective man-years wasted on learning bullshit, creating America's structural unemployment problems and massive education debt bubble.

[oldnemesis]

(09-26-2011 09:02 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

Your omniscience is greatly appreciated here in the U.S. Oldnemesis. I think though your time would be better spent writing letters to Americas political hierarchy, than trying to explain such complex ideas to us peons on this forum.

I really appreciate your insight and amazed how skillfully you explained your position. Let me know when you end with brain farts and have something real to argue.

[oldnemesis]

(09-26-2011 11:22 PM)tenderman100 Wrote:  

The USA? We're in the best shape of all...we can actually solve our problems by shrinking government, making our currency stronger, and letting markets works.

Yes, in theory it is possible.
However the problem is that there are some people around who are happy with status quo.
And those people are very influential. They control the government, the church and the media. And they use this control for their advantage, capitalizing on the fact that average citizen doesn't have enough knowledge to debunk all that bullshit they make up.

Quote:

That means housing has to collapse to 1980 levels, unions have to be destroyed, and regulations that stifle innovation have to be completely washed away.

A complete housing collapse would benefit very few - just those who cannot afford it right now. This excludes pretty much everyone who has any political influence. Good luck with that.

The rest of your ideas are good, but only to some point. For example, I don't want to eat poisoned meat or drink water which contains lead, so at least some regulations have to stay. At the same time splitting large corporations (as happened with AT&T back then) and large import tariffs on everything would be really helpful for the job market - but of course good luck with any of those. This would require thinking long-term, and very few people here seem to think further than the next quarter results.

[mycleverid]

(09-26-2011 11:36 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

You do realize that prior to 2008, kids were told to "major in whatever they want", right? And that they'd be "fine with any degree, as long as they got a degree", right?

I graduated in 2002. Yeah, I am well aware.

Quote:

And you further realize that if we send all of our students into medicine, engineering, and programming, we'll just have a bubble of too many doctors, engineers, and programmers, right?

And when that bubble hits, dump all the incentives into trade schools. Churn out nurses and pipe fitters.

Quote:

It's our education system itself.

I don;t disagree. But, in America school exists because we have no idea how to fit more young workers into our economy. There are massive structural economic problems with reducing the impact of school on individuals.

In an ideal world, I'd scratch all the reading Jane Eyre and building school to start filtering kids toward different tracks (academic, trade school, cash register, jail) around eighth or ninth grade.

But, try challenging the orthodoxy in American education and see what you get. To some extent we favor mush because mush works well enough. America favors adaptation over excellence. And mush often adapts well enough.

[ersatz]

With how stupid expensive health care is in the USA, it could use a bubble of cheap doctors.

[velkrum]

The country needs to become more insular.

Standing armies, Free Trade agreements, immigration and high taxes do not work.

[CupCake]

(09-27-2011 12:55 AM)mycleverid Wrote:  

(09-26-2011 11:36 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

And you further realize that if we send all of our students into medicine, engineering, and programming, we'll just have a bubble of too many doctors, engineers, and programmers, right?

And when that bubble hits, dump all the incentives into trade schools. Churn out nurses and pipe fitters.

Bursting economic bubbles cause enormous amounts of wasted resources and pain. There is no need to artificially produce incentives for people to enter any part of the marketplace. The incentives exist naturally in the form of high wages, better benefits, and ample employment opportunity. When something is in demand people will provide incentives for others to produce it.

See: Economics in One Lesson by Henry Hazlitt

[5K2D]

We're not in danger of getting a programmer or engineer bubble anytime soon. Can't say for doctors, but there's plenty of opportunity for coders and engineers.

[Samseau]

(09-27-2011 02:00 PM)5K2D Wrote:  

We're not in danger of getting a programmer or engineer bubble anytime soon. Can't say for doctors, but there's plenty of opportunity for coders and engineers.

Do you remember a thing called the dot-com bubble that happened 10 years ago?

Programmers couldn't find a job if their life depended on it.

It's easy to make a bubble.

[mycleverid]

Fair enough. Can we at least agree we should stop incentivizing useless degrees?

[iknowexactly]

(09-26-2011 11:22 PM)tenderman100 Wrote:  

[ unions have to be destroyed,

nice respect for the Constitutional right to free association there. God!- unions-- how horrible. Next worst thing to universal health care. God forbid the people who do the work should get something for it-- as opposed to smart "productive investors" like you who rail against workers.

[5K2D]

I'm not saying they don't happen, I'm just saying we don't have one now.

[oldnemesis]

(09-27-2011 02:31 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Do you remember a thing called the dot-com bubble that happened 10 years ago?

This is why it is very unlikely to happen again soon - too many people still remember it.

[Samseau]

(09-28-2011 05:02 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(09-27-2011 02:31 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Do you remember a thing called the dot-com bubble that happened 10 years ago?

This is why it is very unlikely to happen again soon - too many people still remember it.

But it could happen again if the government started to unfairly incentivize it.

[oldnemesis]

(09-28-2011 09:38 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

But it could happen again if the government started to unfairly incentivize it.

It didn't before, and the industry is in a pretty healthy shape, so why should it start it?
Not to mention I despise the word "unfair", as here in US it often means "someone else got it instead of ME, ME, ME!!!"

[hydrogonian]

(09-28-2011 09:38 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(09-28-2011 05:02 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(09-27-2011 02:31 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Do you remember a thing called the dot-com bubble that happened 10 years ago?

This is why it is very unlikely to happen again soon - too many people still remember it.

But it could happen again if the government started to unfairly incentivize it.

Al that means is that when you notice such incentives or research subsidies, start investing. Just get out early. Yeah, it'll fuck up a lot of people (more fore incentives than research subsidies). But you'll hypothetically be okay (well, your investment, anyway) because you lived through it already.

[hydrogonian]

Quote:

we can actually solve our problems by shrinking government, making our currency stronger, and letting markets works. That means housing has to collapse to 1980 levels, unions have to be destroyed, and regulations that stifle innovation have to be completely washed away.

No offense, but this post is indicative of the lack of political and socioeconomic understanding of the world that is killing this country. Those ideas may be good, with at least one horrendous one, but with he exception of maybe one of them, there are a litany of changes that need to be made before any of that will matter in the slightest.

And its not going to happen.

So, all you are doing is creating noise with this "small government" anti-union" talk. Your going to be completely fucked if that is your political priority. And you will fuck others. Does anyone in the government REALLY look like they give a shit about small government? Really? Its never, ever going to happen on anyone's watch. Once more, the forces of population growth, energy, foreign war, food prices, and climate change will eat this country alive before any of your changes make a dent in anything. Likely, they would make things much, much worse within a timeframe of at least three decades.

The man who said that we have to become more insular is much more on target. Population growth is the real problem, not government growth.