[FenyoLuc]

I will give you a story from yesterday then a TL;DR at the end, if you want to skip to my question... Pretty mess of a story this will be, but pardon me, not used to tell stories.

Yesterday evening me and my friend went down to the city, cause two of our friends had recently a birthday. So these 2 birthday girls invited us to a few drinks, and i really wasnt into any of those girls, one is a 6 other is around 5.
But my friend really wants to get together with the 6 so i thought wahtever at least i wont sit alone, and i might try game the other chick, give my friend a wing, and remove the 5.

Things went Ok, so to say. For me it went better, then for him. Started boring, a lot of walk "where to go" which i hate to do, takes a lot of time, so i decided to sit in a park, we brought drinks anyway. Now this could be mistake #1 cause we sat in a line, girl beside girl guy beside guy... Not so much possibilities for any contact, either be it touching or eye~...

Then we bounced to the next place, fast forward to the pub. Nothing happened until then. The girls were drunk, we werent... We played a little table-football, now with mixed teams, so i tried to escalate, did a bunch of kino, yadda yadda... But i had no balls to go for the kiss, im a retard i know, drunk girl who is DTF yet i was unable to do shit... And then things went cold, we were again sitting outside, 2 sides of the table, again guys-girls separated, cause why not... So then the night went like this for hours, and when again the opportunity came to be mixed, i was like "but this would be fucked up, i literally havent done anything in 2 hours how would it come down if i try to escalate now"...

TL;DR
So yeah couldnt escalate properly, and not even close to the closing. I were unable to do my part and separate us properly. But then again my friend did even less, which i do not care about now, my problem is that how i fucked, up how could've i moved better.
Like when the girl went out to the bathroom, that was the only moment i think when i could've gone after her and be together, and leave my friends together. But wouldnt have it been too weird if i did that.

Oh btw. i think i'm like 3 point ahead on the SMV from the girls, so i really dont know why i was so shy. But i would appreciate any advice. What could've i done better and so. If i dont get the girl who cares, i just want to improve.

Oh and moreover the top of my cringiness i didnt bring my wallet, so i couldnt even pay for myself, but at least i drank free.

[Roosh]

What do you mean by "teen"? This forum doesn't allow discussion of girls under 18, even if it's legal in your area.

[FenyoLuc]

we all were 19-22 yo. I know i could've been more specific

[RedPillUK]

The good thing is you've realised your mistakes, the main one was not escalating.

I remember before learning game, I messed up many, many golden chances when I was scared to escalate. It hurts to think about it now. Even after I had learnt about gradually building up touching before going for a kiss and then more, I was still extremely scared to touch a girls shoulder let alone her leg or going for a kiss. I had to fight the voice in my head saying the same things the voice in your head seems to be saying "ah no, you can't touch her now, it's been two hours already".

You have to fight with that voice in your head and just go ahead and make a move, if you think a girl is interested you have to find out. Start with touching that could be accidental, does she move away? No? Touch her hand or shoulder after a joke. Did she freak out? No? Touch her shoulder or back as you're leaving the bar, 'guiding' her out. etc. etc.
As the steps get more advanced you will have more fear, like you were scared to kiss her, just dive in and go for it, you will be less scared next time.

[Suits]

(04-28-2018 06:29 AM)FenyoLuc Wrote:  

Oh btw. i think i'm like 3 point ahead on the SMV from the girls, so i really dont know why i was so shy.

I've got some bad news for you.

[FenyoLuc]

Do i want to hear it?
Well i might sit on a high horse, but is that really a problem?

Thanks RPU for the advice tough

[Suits]

If you can't bang a girl who is on the market and available to other men, then your SMV is lower than hers.

[RedPillUK]

Exactly male SMV is so much more than just looks. Since you didn't have the confidence to kiss her or try anything with her, your value in her eyes would have gone down. If you are good looking and in shape and she's not, that will make you seem even less confident, and that will push your value down even further.

[Suits]

Looks certainly play a role in SMV, but it's simply a multiple.

Looks X Game X Personality + Lifestyle

You can get by on below average looks, as long as you aren't hideous. You can even have zero lifestyle to share with a girl and still get laid or lots of lifestyle combined with a sucky personality, but if you don't have enough game to make a move on a girl and she doesn't throw herself at you because you're just so damn irresistible, your SMV is below hers.

[PapayaTapper]

SMV isn't out in the physical world.

Its just a perception that solely occupies head space

Perceptions are fluid.

(04-28-2018 10:32 AM)Suits Wrote:  

Looks X Game X Personality + Lifestyle

The raw materials.

Game is social fluid dynamics

[FenyoLuc]

well then i might have pretty god damn fucking low SMV... Never heard this before, but seems logical. alright then, thats good to know, really appreciate

[Lighter]

(04-28-2018 06:29 AM)FenyoLuc Wrote:  

But i had no balls to go for the kiss, im a retard i know, drunk girl who is DTF yet i was unable to do shit... And then things went cold,

She wanted you to make a move, but you didn't. She now views you as a beta that doesn't take what he wants (hate the word, but it fits). Women resent men like this.

This is how you end up in the friendzone.

For future reference, a girl will always respect you if you go for the kiss... even if she denies you (girl logic).

It's better to be too bold and get blown out than to be too timid and sit in silence the rest of the night.

EDIT: Not paying is good in my experience. This normally means the girl has to invest in you and she'll hamster this as "I spent money on him. He must be a high value man."

EDIT #2: Girls want to have sex. They love it. However, we're men. We have balls. We make the first move. We do the escalation. We handle logistics. Girls just drop little hints that they want to be fucked:

Two girls inviting two guys for drinks on their birthday... come on man. This is the equivalent of a girl saying "please fuck me."
Same with a girl going to the bathroom alone. She was trying to isolate you or her friend.

[Suits]

(04-29-2018 04:50 AM)Lighter Wrote:  

For future reference, a girl will always respect you if you go for the kiss... even if she denies you (girl logic).

That was the hardest, but most valuable game lesson I've learned.

Go for the kiss. You have nothing to lose.

Sure, I've had some girls reject me in the moment, because they weren't ready. But virtually all of them came back for a second date and were DTF at that point.

[FenyoLuc]

Understood, i need to grow bigger balls.
Just wanna give you some info.

Meanwhile she texted me yesterday,
not gonna be perfect translation but it will do
Girl1: Did you survive last night?
Me: Yeah, hardly, but i did.
Did you wake up early with Girl2?
Girl1:Cool
Pretty early around 6am, i accompanied her to the bus.
Me: I imagine You ran to the bus.
Did not even have time to dress up...I see people's faces as two girl run in half-transparent nightgowns
Girl1: hehe, that would've been nice
Me:What would've you parents tell if they saw you coming home like that
girl1: well, they werent at home, so what they dont know dont hurts them...

And basically that was all, kinda cringe now reading it back, but yeah.... I usually dont use emojis at all, but i felt here that it would be even worse without them
And now today Girl1 asked my friend for a meetup on tuesday, with the same 4 of us. But i dont understand why she asked him abou if i come, and not me... Which not really bothers me, just that i dont know why...
Oh and yeah, i refused to go, cause it would be at noon, for a few hours, with no alcohol, and everyone have to go early, cause we all studying in different cities, and live in student dorms..

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(04-28-2018 10:32 AM)Suits Wrote:  

Looks certainly play a role in SMV, but it's simply a multiple.

Looks X Game X Personality + Lifestyle

You can get by on below average looks, as long as you aren't hideous. You can even have zero lifestyle to share with a girl and still get laid or lots of lifestyle combined with a sucky personality, but if you don't have enough game to make a move on a girl and she doesn't throw herself at you because you're just so damn irresistible, your SMV is below hers.

I would add on that:

For men and all market value is:

Looks x Game x Personality x specific market place and your value in that place (barkeeper in a bar, professor at college etc.) x overall market value of yours in that specific market place (blonde guy in Brazil, good-looking black guy in EE etc.) x overall gender-ratio in the area you are gaming x status

First of all - I doubt that you are 3 points higher in her SMV. A male 8 is almost a model who just lacks minor things or height.

And the double date - from what I understood the girls invited you? It sounds as if the date went bad from beginning to end. Your lack of interest in them certainly was also felt by the girls. In addition your friend seems to have even lass Game than you. Maybe you should start out by going on dates on your own before moving towards double-date setting which is different. If either one of you managed to create some sexual tension then you would have felt it instantly - there would have been a shift in the atmosphere at least with one couple. Sounds like nothing of that sort manifested.

Back to the drawing board.

[FenyoLuc]

I'm not fan of double dates, by the way, cause i have even less bravery to move when in front of people who know me. I first thought, that "well i could help him, if i separate ourselves from them" which i failed to do, as i mentioned earlier.
And my SMV, well as discussed earlier, my lack of game drops it down hugely, as it turned out, but when it comes to looks, altough im pretty lean, there were ocassions when people tried to talk to me to start modelling. Well i dont know, maybe im still sitting on that high horse, when it comes to this, but it deosnt matter how good you look, if you dont have the balls to make a move...
And yeah my friend and the game... He doesnot lack it... he denies it. And even thinks that im the idiot who cause i try to learn these things, which made me question our friendship.