[TooFineAPoint]

Wines are cheap but mostly forgettable.

The best value ones (price + taste) come from Dao (mineral, more complex) and Alentejo (wide, flavorful), in my opinion.

These were trustworthy labels:
Herdade do Peso “Trinca Bolotas"
Convento Velho Signature Tinto
Paz (both the regular and the reserva)
Quinta Do Perdigao - Encruzado (this is a white wine -- "branco" -- and it is delicious, my favorite wine so far in Portugal)
Chamine (pretty cheap but very drinkable for its cost)

[Icarus]

(10-08-2017 06:35 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  

Wines are cheap but mostly forgettable.

If you were French, that kind of arrogance would be expected. But a Canadian...

[Svoboda]

Quote:

Wines are cheap but mostly forgettable.

The best value ones (price + taste) come from Dao (mineral, more complex) and Alentejo (wide, flavorful), in my opinion.

These were trustworthy labels:
Herdade do Peso “Trinca Bolotas"
Convento Velho Signature Tinto
Paz (both the regular and the reserva)
Quinta Do Perdigao - Encruzado (this is a white wine -- "branco" -- and it is delicious, my favorite wine so far in Portugal)
Chamine (pretty cheap but very drinkable for its cost)

(10-08-2017 07:34 PM)Icarus Wrote:  

(10-08-2017 06:35 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  

Wines are cheap but mostly forgettable.

If you were French, that kind of arrogance would be expected. But a Canadian...

[Nomadic Sack]

If you are travelling outside of rush hour its usually pretty safe to not pay for the metro ticket. Porto is a beautiful place, great food, nice people. Women seemed somewhat prudish but I think if you speak the language and have some local friends this would definitely change. It rains a lot this time of year.

[TooFineAPoint]

(10-08-2017 07:34 PM)Icarus Wrote:  

(10-08-2017 06:35 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  

Wines are cheap but mostly forgettable.

If you were French, that kind of arrogance would be expected. But a Canadian...

Easy.

Ready for the next outrage? I'd put up BC and Ontario wines in the $16-$35 range any day against Portuguese wines of that price point.

And our women are better looking!

...

Found another nice Alentejo label today -- Cartuxa.

[Icarus]

(10-09-2017 12:10 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  

I'd put up BC and Ontario wines in the $16-$35 range any day against Portuguese wines of that price point.

Have you ever visited Portugal? Or do you just shop at Portuguese stores in Little Portugal, Toronto?

Even when I was a broke student, I did taste some extremely fine Tokaji in Budapest. It cost some 1000 euros per liter, but I could afford a spoonful of it. It was divine. Certainly unforgettable.

If you cannot find unforgettable wines in a wine country that has a wine tradition dating back (at least) to the Roman era, then I am tempted to conclude you're simply not doing your homework.

[TooFineAPoint]

I'm in Portugal right now, doing wine tours and tasting in each region. I am writing this from outside Evora Monte.

You'd think that was obvious from the fact that -- in the same post -- I listed a bunch of Portuguese wines that aren't readily available in Canada that I thought were really good.

Maybe this tells more about your European [edit: I don't know where you are from, so let's say non-North American] self-esteem than anything else. And possibly your English comprehension. "Mostly" means lots but not all.

Which is why I proceeded to list a bunch of great value wines that I felt could compete in the world market.

It's even funnier because anyone who knows me (Ghost Tiger can vouch), knows that I take any opportunity I can to shit on the mediocrity of Canada. Canadian wines are shockingly decent, but still mostly over-priced.

Yet if you told me I had to pick one country over the other (Portugal vs Canada) and never drink the others' wines again, I would not hesitate in picking Canada.

[Icarus]

(10-09-2017 03:31 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  

Yet if you told me I had to pick one country over the other (Portugal vs Canada) and never drink the others' wines again, I would not hesitate in picking Canada.

You'd probably be the only one. You claimed they are overpriced, after all.

[Icarus]

Perhaps wine is "classy" and "elitist" in North America. In Portugal, everyone drinks it. The rich can afford to drink exquisite vintage Port over a century old, of course. But even broke students can afford pretty decent wine.

What is "classy" and "elitist" in Portugal is craft beer. It's a new trend, and hipsters seem to be all over it. If you actually do love beer, you probably won't tolerate the major Portuguese brands of beer. You will be looking for a craft beer shop, too.

[morales]

(10-09-2017 03:31 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  

I'm in Portugal right now, doing wine tours and tasting in each region. I am writing this from outside Evora Monte.

You'd think that was obvious from the fact that -- in the same post -- I listed a bunch of Portuguese wines that aren't readily available in Canada that I thought were really good.

Maybe this tells more about your European [edit: I don't know where you are from, so let's say non-North American] self-esteem than anything else. And possibly your English comprehension. "Mostly" means lots but not all.

Which is why I proceeded to list a bunch of great value wines that I felt could compete in the world market.

It's even funnier because anyone who knows me (Ghost Tiger can vouch), knows that I take any opportunity I can to shit on the mediocrity of Canada. Canadian wines are shockingly decent, but still mostly over-priced.

Yet if you told me I had to pick one country over the other (Portugal vs Canada) and never drink the others' wines again, I would not hesitate in picking Canada.

Ahaaha as a local from Porto, i honestly don't know what to say about this...
Anyway, you obviously have a fair knowledge on wines, my favourites are douro wines, without a contest the best in Portugal, followed by alentejo region. I'm not in the position to lecture you that our wines are the best like every Portuguese likes to do. But, I dare you to try some douro ones and hit me back.
Foz torto vinhas velhas 2014
Quinta da leda douro 2011 (this is one superb Wine)
Quinta do vesuvio 2007
Pombal do vesuvio douro 2011 (this one should be in the 15 euros range)
Papa figos 2013( this one costs 5 euros and a good one)
Quinta do crasto vinha maria Teresa 2007
You like alentejo so have this one: mouchao 2007 (compare with ones in the same price range in canada And report back while you're still in PT)
I've drank all these wines more than once so I really vouch for them. I don't remember the price range of all of them but a few of them should be on the 35 euros range you mentioned. Compare to the same price range in canada
Also, 2011 was one the best years ever for Portuguese wineries, so look for wines of this year.
I could be talking about food and wine for hours

Someone above talked about vinho verde. Vinho verde is considered a young wine hence the name verde. It's usually always drank in the same year as they harvest. Should be consumed as soon as you buy and at a chill temperature like a rose. It's not a wine to be stored in the celery.

Best Regards

[TooFineAPoint]

^
good post, good wine list

I had an mid-level expensive wine from Douro tonight -- Quinta Vale Dona Maria 2014. Was solid.

But I am leaning more towards Dao and Alentejo as my favorite Portuguese wine regions. The encruzado grape from dao makes a nice, unique white wine.

I tried to find older Mouchaos, but the only one I could find was 2011. Anyway, I tried their entry level, a younger one, Dom Rafael. Liked it, but again, price point puts it out of "I have to drink this again" category. I think the one you describe is 100% alicante bouchet, so if one was in Portugal and had the money, it should be a no brainer.

Morales, you'd be shocked what is available for Canadian wines now, but that is a different post (hit me up if you decide to visit).

Last day of my trip, and I will say that where Portugal shines on wine is at the table wine price point (slightly better than other table wines), can hold steady under $35 USD, and then loses ground above that (given the choice, most would go for a French, Italian, or USA wine over $35).

Since this is the Porto thread, I recommend visiting the wine shop Touriga. The staff there will set you up with some solid wines for your stay.

(10-09-2017 06:00 PM)Icarus Wrote:  

Perhaps wine is "classy" and "elitist" in North America. In Portugal, everyone drinks it. The rich can afford to drink exquisite vintage Port over a century old, of course. But even broke students can afford pretty decent wine.

What is "classy" and "elitist" in Portugal is craft beer. It's a new trend, and hipsters seem to be all over it. If you actually do love beer, you probably won't tolerate the major Portuguese brands of beer. You will be looking for a craft beer shop, too.

It's like you are writing to a crazed straw man version of me.

I'm talking about value wines here, my man. $15-$35 USD. Of course if you drank a $100 wine I would expect it to be good. The question is, is it as good/memorable as a French/Italian $100 bottle? If not, why am I paying for it -- because it is the only thing that is available?

I'm sorry you are so sad that I don't think Portugal makes the best wines in the world. And I am excited for you to discover Canadian wines, because they are much better than you think.

[Icarus]

(10-11-2017 06:35 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  

I am excited for you to discover Canadian wines, because they are much better than you think.

Vancouver is roughly at the same latitude as the Rhine region, so it shouldn't be impossible to find decent Canadian wines. However, most of Canada is at Northern European latitudes, north of parallel 50, and I never found a decent wine from Northern Europe:



Of course, if you use indoor farming, LEDs and electric heaters, you might be able to produce something decent. However, I prefer the heuristic: was this land part of the Roman Empire?

I lived in California, which is supposed to have excellent wines. Yet, in terms of table wines, Portugal has at least twice the bang per buck. Many Californian wines are unforgettable only because they are so bad (relative to their price). This is partly due to the fact that wine-making is viewed as a glamorous lifestyle for retired rich people who can't seem to find anything else to do.

[Sam Buca]

Just giving a short update since it's been a while from the last info posted here and it seems to be the only Data Sheet available.

I stayed with some friends of mine for about a week just to explore the city and have fun. It's a typical guys week with priorities on alcohol and night life. Our group is definitely standing out wherever we go since I can say our appearance is above average and we are pretty tall overall. Our age span is from 29 - 36. During the day we just stroll around the city and mostly have drinks and laugh but we always focus on the nights out. According to that daygaming is not a big factor for us, nightgame is our focus. Not pressuring it too much but normally there is always some females involved which we meet during the night ;-)

Logistics: It's a hilly city which can be annoying at times when you are walking around a lot all day but everything pretty much centers around the center of the city and can be reached by foot. If you are too lazy or it is a little too far to walk, Uber is your best way to get from A to B. We stayed in an awesome apartment 10 min walk from the center.

prices: Being from Germany everything seemed a little cheaper for us if you compare it. Definitely not eastern europe cheap but you get more bang for your bucks.

daytime venues: We were lucky that the worldcup was on and there was always some public viewing possibilities and to get in touch with the locals. Lots of bars and restaurant which you can just pick walking by if you like it. We enjoyed a really pleasant stay on a rooftop spot right in the center of the city where we spend some time.

nightime venues: bars and clubs in the city center are your way to go. We pretty much stayed around the 2 parallel streets Rue ... Paris and Rue ... Reis. Just walk around and find a place you like. If you behave like a human being and are not totally wasted you will not have problems to pass the door. Those are all smaller places more bar type but most of them are fun.
Weekdays are a little tough since it is not so crowded but Friday and Saturday are crazy packed. We tried to go out of town once but changed our mind really quick since the ride is just unnecessary and the clubs are a hit or miss. It was just not worth it for us.

females / pick up: Compared to eastern europe females the beauty level is way down. Not my type and more on the alternative side but really nice and easy to talk to.
The ratios are mostly very bad unfortunately and as it has been written before social circle game seems to be the most promising even though most locals are really friendly and it is easy to get in touch with them if you are not a total idiot.
The english level is really good and with most of them you can at least have a basic conversation.
Tinder is straight ass in Porto. You have some decent matches but it was not really successful. Maybe we didn't care enough as well.
Score: 2 guys from us got a bang in our 5 night stay with going out 4 nights. One was a safe deal but he got too wasted and we had to take him home and the girl disappeared after
Us not really being out on the hunt the result was OK at least. It is not an easy city to get layed but it is possible.

Hope this helps a little. Feel free to ask questions if there are any specific.