As mentioned in the LTR master thread, my relationship came to a mutually amicable ending about a month ago, after 3.5 years. I held off this post to let any emotions wane and attempt to make this a useful post.
I am posting this here instead of the LTR master thread because some single guys may find this useful or appreciate another insight.
My reasons for ending it were that I need the free time to focus on my business ideas and ultimately, I may need to leave the country to be closer to my parents who are getting old.
Her reasons were based off my inability to promise her the future/wife her up and that she wanted me to have more relationships and reference points before making such a big decision.
I am 2 years younger than her and have different priorities in my life currently.
Our social circle and families were pretty shocked that we ended it as we made a great team; to them we were the ‘model couple’, doing everything right. The timing was just unfortunate.
Lesson #1 – be clear on your intentions and don’t make false promises
I was clear from the start and let her know that I wasn’t intending on getting married for another 8 years or so. I told her once, I would marry her if I was 35 and that I never wanted to take her ‘best years’ away from her. Despite pressure from peers to get married, I never once made any assurances to her about a mutual future.
She grew concerned about this and eventually I addressed this and told her that I want her to be happy; if this is what makes her happy then she is free to find it (motherhood and companionship). After all, she was attracted to my independence and that is my driving force in life.
She agreed and conceded that I made this clear in the start and knew what she was in for.
Lesson #2 – don’t seek advice from mutual friends
Your family, friends, her friends, social circle don’t know the intimacies of your relationship. Some may only hear the good things because you care of their idea of you. Others might only hear the bad things because you are seeking their approval on your actions.
Either way, they have blind spots and a limited understanding on what your relationship is and what you may want for your future. Take every single word of advice, this post included, with a grain of salt.
Everyone has a vested interest and it’s not always your wellbeing. As our couples in our social circle broke up, her friends started meddling more in her relationship. As other couples got engaged, they started asking me ‘when you are dropping a knee’ or ‘when are you two having kids’. They want validation on their own actions and they are never objective. They are constantly comparing their relationship to yours and this biases their intentions.
These comments start as benign and end up intensifying, like a ladder of commitment.
You will be fine if you picked a partner who is immune to this and you are capable of fending off such pressure. Lead accordingly.
Lesson #3 – moving in together is a bigger deal than you might think
I moved in to her place as I had a flatmate who was a complete degenerate. As a well-known DJ, he had crazy hours; my living room was populated by hot sluts sleeping on the couch and bumping lines while the whole place was unhygienic. I decided to move out.
It became evident that moving in together was a big deal solely by other couples’ reactions. As jariel mentioned elsewhere, it’s practically marriage. I am currently going through the ‘divorce’ of settling our mutual furniture and assets, transferring bills to her name and a bunch of admin.
That being said, it can be rewarding when you have a loving relationship based off principles. She did the basic requirements of cooking, cleaning, interior design (which is the bare minimum you should expect) and being a fantastic host when we had people over. I was the handyman where I learned a lot of DIY skills and didn’t need to do basic things for my survival (her responsibilities). She called it pink jobs and blue jobs.
She never objected to having the boys over for sports (she loved making snacks and shit while the girls did their own thing in the kitchen) and we would have many board game nights or dinner parties.
The examples above serve to remind you that once you cohabitate, you have the chance to define what's normal and how the arrangement will be. Do this immediately.
You can set up an environment that’s massively beneficial but it will be in phases depending on your life and her life. It can be stressful when she brings home her negative emotions from work. You might be in a bad mood. You can avoid each other but by the end of the day, you will interact with each other.
My perspective is a bit distorted though because she completed a Masters degree while working a full time 9-5 job as she had a scholarship. Understandably, she was stressed at times.
Also, periods once a month. It’s predictable but is annoying, having to deal with extra emotions in your living space.
I wouldn’t suggest moving in unless you want to marry her and use the living together as a litmus test to put her cohabitation skills to the test.
Lesson #4 – you learn more about yourself than anyone else
Circumstances don’t make a man, they reveal him. The first few months together can be difficult. Sometimes you’re both still fucking other people. Other times, they are broken from messy breakups.
The woman you choose will inevitably have baggage from her previous relationships and this can be complicated if her ex is still around the social circle. I instigated a strict no-contact rule and I was quite firm on her. She submitted but I feel that it was a bit too much and a consequence of my then-insecurities.
You will be jealous over certain things. She will retaliate to this while also being jealous. How you handle this will define the future of your relationship.
You will learn to pick your battles and how to use leverage to your benefit. You will let certain things slide (to allow your own discrepancies to slide pass too) as well as stop caring as much about certain transgressions; not all faults are equal nor is your partner always responsible for them.
You will figure out how to differentiate, when it’s her problem becoming yours and when it’s your internal wiring that’s fucked up.
I have written elsewhere about this.
Never compare your relationship to others', you are a top 1% and never succumb to any imposition of her frame regarding this. The wolf does not occupy himself with the opinion of the sheep.
It’s easier to change your perspective of someone than themselves. You realize that the perfect woman is a fallacy and that everyone has their faults.
Decide what is passable and what is non-negotiable and do it early on in the relationship.
Lesson #5 – family is everything
Your family and her family will have a vested interest in the happiness of their own kin. You work well as a team and you are both welcomed. You fuck up and they will hold a grudge forever.
In line with my message however, pay attention to her family. Her parents, her siblings and how she treats them and vice versa; my girl was super attentive to them to the point I mentioned it to her. “You are in a relationship with your mother, your sister, your degenerate brother and finally, me.”
After a while, you will have certain expectations and naturally, they require time and emotional effort. For her, it was a zero sum game between them and me. I would never want to come between them so I told her I will make my own way out. She has her own shit to deal with. Be mindful about what you take on and what you leave to her.
In my situation, her parents were both red flags, overgrown children with a drinking problem. This was one of the major factors I told myself I can’t wed this girl unless we moved overseas and we didn’t have their influence. Given the ‘relationship’ and Mother Teresa trait she had, I knew she wouldn’t be able to relinquish them.
Lesson #6 – investment follows the law of diminishing returns
The person who is more invested in the first 6 months is the one who will secede to the other persons frame and demand. I was less invested and as such I set the rules early on. This somewhat 'resets' and a new bargaining period begins when you move in together but your previous 'rules' are carried over.
Get this right early on and you set the tone for the next year or so. Shit tests won’t be shit tests but rather small attempts on her behalf to challenge the status quo. This is healthy and can be playful depending on the timing and your mood. Sometimes, I found myself getting annoyed simply because I thought it was ridiculous that 18, 24 months later she would be starting this shit.
It’s just woman’s nature, keeping you honest. Refer to my response to Gework about shit tests in the LTR master thread.
When you live together, the investment balance diminishes because a lot of shit becomes a ‘we’ thing instead of an ‘I’ thing.
This is a good thing but be firm in what you consider necessary and not; when it’s conflated, girls slide responsibilities under the table and before you know it, certain shit gets normalized. This includes having a separate life.
Lesson #7 – being in love and loving someone are not the same thing
When you start out, you are in love. You are infatuated and are constantly thinking about that person. Being in love is exciting because it encompasses the unknown and not knowing where you stand with that person. The lack of feedback makes guys act weak or do silly things, in search for that feedback that them being ‘in love’ is reciprocal and warranted.
Later on, you end up loving the person. Accepting them for who they are, appreciating them as a whole and the value they add to the team of ‘you’. The love disappears when someone has hurt someone else and the trust has dissipated.
In my instance, I still love my ex because she is a virtuous person and has good intentions. I appreciate her for what she is. As days pass however, I am less ‘in love’ with her because I don’t lust for her anymore.
Lesson #8 – if your social life or hobbies suffer, that’s your fault
You have full authority over how you spend your time. Many guys are spineless and devote their free time to their woman. Sometimes, the woman is manipulative in getting her own way in this regard. If so, you chose a bad partner or didn’t set the framework correctly in the first few months.
If you take responsibility for this, you realize you can’t really blame the woman for eating up your free time. Especially if you don’t have kids.
Understand this and take initiative with doing what you want. Your woman will admire you more, you will have direction, your identity will grow and again, you will discover yourself. If you neglect this, you will grow to resent your partner and blame them, despite this being your duty.
I ensured I had positive hobbies and a healthy social life. Even this week, my ex showed up at a public speaking contest I had, to support me. She knew it was important to me, acknowledged the difference it made in my life and that she found it attractive. We had a brief catch up and kept it at that.
Lesson #9 – you are responsible for your state of mind
At the start, in the middle, at the end and post-relationship, you are the only person who can decide what you let affect you; positively or negatively.
Here I emphasized the significance of having your life in order; this includes your ‘inner game’ and confidence.
Shit will happen and your response to these situations will set the tone for her response. We talk about framing to get laid and impose it on women to direct interactions. We need to talk more about your internal framing of how you process events and interactions. This is related to lesson #6, investment. You will be less invested in bullshit things and magnify the importance of opportune events.
In a relationship, you need to be a rock and not let the relationship bring you down.
After all, it’s usually the woman projecting shit into it. It took me a while to accept this. You are also accountable for the shit you bring in to it and women aren’t known for having emotional fortitude so control yourself at all times. WIA nailed it with his quote “am I reacting to her? All problems, no pussy. Is she reacting to me? All pussy, no problems”.
After you end it, your state of mind shines.
In conclusion
Once it’s over you will probably fall into one of these 3 categories ((b) is not mutually exclusive with either):
a) You are intimidated by women and not wanting to speak to them because your self-worth was tied to your previous partner. These are the guys who end up phoning them at 3AM and continue future projections with them.
b) You take a break from women altogether and work on that business you were putting off, lift those weights you neglected, go on that adventure and travel which you yearned for.
c) You feel liberated and excited that you have the ability to chat up any woman you want because you have grown as an individual. You can assume that they are as into you as your partner was and that sole assumption will mean that your confidence is sky-high and they fall into the frame of wanting you even more.
Every woman I see now, I pull her in, flirt with her and joke around as if I have known her for years. This is a (good) consequence of being in a loving relationship.
I trust women to be women and the screening is constant but I am positive in my interactions because life is too short to worry about women fucking me over.
There’s a difference between being naïve and being indifferent.
Naïve - your perception of human interactions are distorted and you don’t pick up on signals.
Indifferent – you accept the nature of women and when you spot a signal, you either adjust or ignore depending on your desired outcome.
Generally, shit ain’t worth worrying about because your purpose on this planet is not defined by the caliber of the woman by your side. The caliber of the woman is defined by how much she improves you as a person.
I am fortunate that my girl changed me greatly, for the better. If you asked me 3 years ago, I would have laughed and said, “no woman can change me”. Alas, I grew up and continue to learn.
I was able to have such a rewarding relationship because I knew what I wanted and was very strict with what constituted a positive relationship. When you are left better off, then you are capable of loving someone without being with them.
Despite the fruitful bond, we just ended having different projections for the future.
Those around us don’t understand why because their reference points come from a negative place; resentment, loss of trust and hurting each other. The proverbial straw that breaks the camel’s back. This is when you cling on to the past, hoping for it to return instead of anticipating the future and become bitter.
I know it’s unlikely that we will remain friends and we will probably fade away but I have made my peace with that.
We agreed, as long as the other person’s happy it’s fine; we had a good innings and life is about making exceptional memories and living a happy life.
The last thing I did, when I left the apartment was place a fake spider under her pillow because I knew she would freak out (and she did). Remember, nothing has to be as serious as you make it out to be. We are all on this journey of life, looking for love, companionship and fulfillment through our careers, travel or just experiences.
You get what you put out there, so leave your house with a smile on your face and know that you can have what you want, it's yours to take.
You only become an alpha widow when your self-esteem blocks you from feeling entitled to an even better relationship in the future.
"Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one.” – Marcus Aurelius
I am posting this here instead of the LTR master thread because some single guys may find this useful or appreciate another insight.
My reasons for ending it were that I need the free time to focus on my business ideas and ultimately, I may need to leave the country to be closer to my parents who are getting old.
Her reasons were based off my inability to promise her the future/wife her up and that she wanted me to have more relationships and reference points before making such a big decision.
I am 2 years younger than her and have different priorities in my life currently.
Our social circle and families were pretty shocked that we ended it as we made a great team; to them we were the ‘model couple’, doing everything right. The timing was just unfortunate.
Lesson #1 – be clear on your intentions and don’t make false promises
I was clear from the start and let her know that I wasn’t intending on getting married for another 8 years or so. I told her once, I would marry her if I was 35 and that I never wanted to take her ‘best years’ away from her. Despite pressure from peers to get married, I never once made any assurances to her about a mutual future.
She grew concerned about this and eventually I addressed this and told her that I want her to be happy; if this is what makes her happy then she is free to find it (motherhood and companionship). After all, she was attracted to my independence and that is my driving force in life.
She agreed and conceded that I made this clear in the start and knew what she was in for.
Lesson #2 – don’t seek advice from mutual friends
Your family, friends, her friends, social circle don’t know the intimacies of your relationship. Some may only hear the good things because you care of their idea of you. Others might only hear the bad things because you are seeking their approval on your actions.
Either way, they have blind spots and a limited understanding on what your relationship is and what you may want for your future. Take every single word of advice, this post included, with a grain of salt.
Everyone has a vested interest and it’s not always your wellbeing. As our couples in our social circle broke up, her friends started meddling more in her relationship. As other couples got engaged, they started asking me ‘when you are dropping a knee’ or ‘when are you two having kids’. They want validation on their own actions and they are never objective. They are constantly comparing their relationship to yours and this biases their intentions.
These comments start as benign and end up intensifying, like a ladder of commitment.
You will be fine if you picked a partner who is immune to this and you are capable of fending off such pressure. Lead accordingly.
Lesson #3 – moving in together is a bigger deal than you might think
I moved in to her place as I had a flatmate who was a complete degenerate. As a well-known DJ, he had crazy hours; my living room was populated by hot sluts sleeping on the couch and bumping lines while the whole place was unhygienic. I decided to move out.
It became evident that moving in together was a big deal solely by other couples’ reactions. As jariel mentioned elsewhere, it’s practically marriage. I am currently going through the ‘divorce’ of settling our mutual furniture and assets, transferring bills to her name and a bunch of admin.
That being said, it can be rewarding when you have a loving relationship based off principles. She did the basic requirements of cooking, cleaning, interior design (which is the bare minimum you should expect) and being a fantastic host when we had people over. I was the handyman where I learned a lot of DIY skills and didn’t need to do basic things for my survival (her responsibilities). She called it pink jobs and blue jobs.
She never objected to having the boys over for sports (she loved making snacks and shit while the girls did their own thing in the kitchen) and we would have many board game nights or dinner parties.
The examples above serve to remind you that once you cohabitate, you have the chance to define what's normal and how the arrangement will be. Do this immediately.
You can set up an environment that’s massively beneficial but it will be in phases depending on your life and her life. It can be stressful when she brings home her negative emotions from work. You might be in a bad mood. You can avoid each other but by the end of the day, you will interact with each other.
My perspective is a bit distorted though because she completed a Masters degree while working a full time 9-5 job as she had a scholarship. Understandably, she was stressed at times.
Also, periods once a month. It’s predictable but is annoying, having to deal with extra emotions in your living space.
I wouldn’t suggest moving in unless you want to marry her and use the living together as a litmus test to put her cohabitation skills to the test.
Lesson #4 – you learn more about yourself than anyone else
Circumstances don’t make a man, they reveal him. The first few months together can be difficult. Sometimes you’re both still fucking other people. Other times, they are broken from messy breakups.
The woman you choose will inevitably have baggage from her previous relationships and this can be complicated if her ex is still around the social circle. I instigated a strict no-contact rule and I was quite firm on her. She submitted but I feel that it was a bit too much and a consequence of my then-insecurities.
You will be jealous over certain things. She will retaliate to this while also being jealous. How you handle this will define the future of your relationship.
You will learn to pick your battles and how to use leverage to your benefit. You will let certain things slide (to allow your own discrepancies to slide pass too) as well as stop caring as much about certain transgressions; not all faults are equal nor is your partner always responsible for them.
You will figure out how to differentiate, when it’s her problem becoming yours and when it’s your internal wiring that’s fucked up.
I have written elsewhere about this.
Never compare your relationship to others', you are a top 1% and never succumb to any imposition of her frame regarding this. The wolf does not occupy himself with the opinion of the sheep.
It’s easier to change your perspective of someone than themselves. You realize that the perfect woman is a fallacy and that everyone has their faults.
Decide what is passable and what is non-negotiable and do it early on in the relationship.
Lesson #5 – family is everything
Your family and her family will have a vested interest in the happiness of their own kin. You work well as a team and you are both welcomed. You fuck up and they will hold a grudge forever.
In line with my message however, pay attention to her family. Her parents, her siblings and how she treats them and vice versa; my girl was super attentive to them to the point I mentioned it to her. “You are in a relationship with your mother, your sister, your degenerate brother and finally, me.”
After a while, you will have certain expectations and naturally, they require time and emotional effort. For her, it was a zero sum game between them and me. I would never want to come between them so I told her I will make my own way out. She has her own shit to deal with. Be mindful about what you take on and what you leave to her.
In my situation, her parents were both red flags, overgrown children with a drinking problem. This was one of the major factors I told myself I can’t wed this girl unless we moved overseas and we didn’t have their influence. Given the ‘relationship’ and Mother Teresa trait she had, I knew she wouldn’t be able to relinquish them.
Lesson #6 – investment follows the law of diminishing returns
The person who is more invested in the first 6 months is the one who will secede to the other persons frame and demand. I was less invested and as such I set the rules early on. This somewhat 'resets' and a new bargaining period begins when you move in together but your previous 'rules' are carried over.
Get this right early on and you set the tone for the next year or so. Shit tests won’t be shit tests but rather small attempts on her behalf to challenge the status quo. This is healthy and can be playful depending on the timing and your mood. Sometimes, I found myself getting annoyed simply because I thought it was ridiculous that 18, 24 months later she would be starting this shit.
It’s just woman’s nature, keeping you honest. Refer to my response to Gework about shit tests in the LTR master thread.
When you live together, the investment balance diminishes because a lot of shit becomes a ‘we’ thing instead of an ‘I’ thing.
This is a good thing but be firm in what you consider necessary and not; when it’s conflated, girls slide responsibilities under the table and before you know it, certain shit gets normalized. This includes having a separate life.
Lesson #7 – being in love and loving someone are not the same thing
When you start out, you are in love. You are infatuated and are constantly thinking about that person. Being in love is exciting because it encompasses the unknown and not knowing where you stand with that person. The lack of feedback makes guys act weak or do silly things, in search for that feedback that them being ‘in love’ is reciprocal and warranted.
Later on, you end up loving the person. Accepting them for who they are, appreciating them as a whole and the value they add to the team of ‘you’. The love disappears when someone has hurt someone else and the trust has dissipated.
In my instance, I still love my ex because she is a virtuous person and has good intentions. I appreciate her for what she is. As days pass however, I am less ‘in love’ with her because I don’t lust for her anymore.
Lesson #8 – if your social life or hobbies suffer, that’s your fault
You have full authority over how you spend your time. Many guys are spineless and devote their free time to their woman. Sometimes, the woman is manipulative in getting her own way in this regard. If so, you chose a bad partner or didn’t set the framework correctly in the first few months.
If you take responsibility for this, you realize you can’t really blame the woman for eating up your free time. Especially if you don’t have kids.
Understand this and take initiative with doing what you want. Your woman will admire you more, you will have direction, your identity will grow and again, you will discover yourself. If you neglect this, you will grow to resent your partner and blame them, despite this being your duty.
I ensured I had positive hobbies and a healthy social life. Even this week, my ex showed up at a public speaking contest I had, to support me. She knew it was important to me, acknowledged the difference it made in my life and that she found it attractive. We had a brief catch up and kept it at that.
Lesson #9 – you are responsible for your state of mind
At the start, in the middle, at the end and post-relationship, you are the only person who can decide what you let affect you; positively or negatively.
Here I emphasized the significance of having your life in order; this includes your ‘inner game’ and confidence.
Shit will happen and your response to these situations will set the tone for her response. We talk about framing to get laid and impose it on women to direct interactions. We need to talk more about your internal framing of how you process events and interactions. This is related to lesson #6, investment. You will be less invested in bullshit things and magnify the importance of opportune events.
In a relationship, you need to be a rock and not let the relationship bring you down.
After all, it’s usually the woman projecting shit into it. It took me a while to accept this. You are also accountable for the shit you bring in to it and women aren’t known for having emotional fortitude so control yourself at all times. WIA nailed it with his quote “am I reacting to her? All problems, no pussy. Is she reacting to me? All pussy, no problems”.
After you end it, your state of mind shines.
In conclusion
Once it’s over you will probably fall into one of these 3 categories ((b) is not mutually exclusive with either):
a) You are intimidated by women and not wanting to speak to them because your self-worth was tied to your previous partner. These are the guys who end up phoning them at 3AM and continue future projections with them.
b) You take a break from women altogether and work on that business you were putting off, lift those weights you neglected, go on that adventure and travel which you yearned for.
c) You feel liberated and excited that you have the ability to chat up any woman you want because you have grown as an individual. You can assume that they are as into you as your partner was and that sole assumption will mean that your confidence is sky-high and they fall into the frame of wanting you even more.
Every woman I see now, I pull her in, flirt with her and joke around as if I have known her for years. This is a (good) consequence of being in a loving relationship.
I trust women to be women and the screening is constant but I am positive in my interactions because life is too short to worry about women fucking me over.
There’s a difference between being naïve and being indifferent.
Naïve - your perception of human interactions are distorted and you don’t pick up on signals.
Indifferent – you accept the nature of women and when you spot a signal, you either adjust or ignore depending on your desired outcome.
Generally, shit ain’t worth worrying about because your purpose on this planet is not defined by the caliber of the woman by your side. The caliber of the woman is defined by how much she improves you as a person.
I am fortunate that my girl changed me greatly, for the better. If you asked me 3 years ago, I would have laughed and said, “no woman can change me”. Alas, I grew up and continue to learn.
I was able to have such a rewarding relationship because I knew what I wanted and was very strict with what constituted a positive relationship. When you are left better off, then you are capable of loving someone without being with them.
Despite the fruitful bond, we just ended having different projections for the future.
Those around us don’t understand why because their reference points come from a negative place; resentment, loss of trust and hurting each other. The proverbial straw that breaks the camel’s back. This is when you cling on to the past, hoping for it to return instead of anticipating the future and become bitter.
I know it’s unlikely that we will remain friends and we will probably fade away but I have made my peace with that.
We agreed, as long as the other person’s happy it’s fine; we had a good innings and life is about making exceptional memories and living a happy life.
The last thing I did, when I left the apartment was place a fake spider under her pillow because I knew she would freak out (and she did). Remember, nothing has to be as serious as you make it out to be. We are all on this journey of life, looking for love, companionship and fulfillment through our careers, travel or just experiences.
You get what you put out there, so leave your house with a smile on your face and know that you can have what you want, it's yours to take.
You only become an alpha widow when your self-esteem blocks you from feeling entitled to an even better relationship in the future.
"Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one.” – Marcus Aurelius
