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Investing in Teak in Panama
03-04-2018, 10:58 PM
I was at a conference recently where there were a lot of international people. Some of the people were discussing a project in which they were investing in teak wood in the forests of Panama. It almost sounded to good to be true.
Basically, they said we could make an investment and buy some land. With that, we could quickly apply for residency. However, we would only have to visit Panama once every two years. They also said that after five years of residency, we could apply for full citizenship.
Naturally I wondered if this was a scam. Since it involves going abroad, I doubt I would have much recourse if something bad happened.
Is it this easy to acquire residency and citizenship in Panama?
And what is it like for those of you who live there?
These people didn't seem to have many answers to what life in Panama is like. That bothered me.
I have not invested with these people. I do not know anyone who has.
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Investing in Teak in Panama
03-05-2018, 12:41 AM
Based on a quick Google search it looks like residency in Panama isn't too hard to acquire if you're already a citizen of a developed country.
However this specific opportunity may not be legit and I'd be very careful about investing in a project and market that you don't really understand. What kind of conference was this? Did you get the name of the group pitching this idea? How much money were they looking for?
Be careful and do your research. If you want to become a Panamanian resident/citizen there are probably better (and potentially cheaper) ways to do it.
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Investing in Teak in Panama
03-05-2018, 12:43 AM
You need a lot of land for a woodlot. Also, I would imaging illegal logging to be a massive problem.
Another thing is the teak itself. If it was prime age for harvest, some guy would have snatched it up already. It might sound cool adding the numbers from a fresh haul, coupled with the acreage they are selling you. But add in the 25 years to maturity and you will be looking at a long time to recoup your investment.
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Investing in Teak in Panama
03-05-2018, 01:29 AM
If you are specifically looking to acquire Panamanian citizenship you need to deposit 5k and open a business. You will also have to renounce any other citizenship you have.
http://nomadcapitalist.com/second-passport/panama/
You want to know the only thing you can assume about a broken down old man? It's that he's a survivor.
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Investing in Teak in Panama
03-05-2018, 01:56 AM
Thanks. I am looking for a second citizenship. I'm definitely looking to renounce one in favor of another.
That means Panama is out.
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Investing in Teak in Panama
03-06-2018, 11:59 AM
These type of threads are probably the most useful. I am with everyone else. If you are 100% set on investing in something start with baby steps..especially in any 3rd world country. Spend years there first. If not just park your money somewhere safe where you can sleep every night.
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Investing in Teak in Panama
03-06-2018, 09:42 PM
Thanks for all the excellent suggestions. I doubt I will pursue this opportunity. It does look like this could be easy to set up though.
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Investing in Teak in Panama
03-08-2018, 07:10 PM
A lot of developing countries seem to be abounding with lucrative opportunities, however more often than not these opportunities fail to measure up when put under any form of scrutiny.
Here in Indonesia there are swathes of people with 'fantastic' opportunities promising 100's of percent returns. However as mentioned above you are very frequently at the whim of local authorities and facing a constant barrage of moving goalposts of requirements.
Whilst there are certainly opportunities available in developing countries having boots on the ground experience along with an understanding of the local customs and requirements to do business can still not give you significant protection against a swift change in circumstance.
In the case of persevering with opportunities here choosing an amount you could afford to lose along with expecting almost immediate cash flow returns that can generate a significant proportion of your initial investment can safeguard you to a degree.
I didn't heed this advice on my first investment here and now have a 35 year lease on a piece of land in someone else's name along with a farming project that won't produce yields for over 18 months. Already additional build costs and other 'issues have cropped up which have been a valuable lesson but a clear exposure of my naivety to not set more thorough terms in the agreement. There is still a possibility it it will proof fruitful however the due diligence and planning in retrospect was far to lacking for such an agreement in a developing country.
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Investing in Teak in Panama
03-08-2018, 11:57 PM
I am definitely going to need to look into this more. I am hearing a lot of conflicting reports.
Residency also requires you to put $5,000 in a bank. That is no problem for me.
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Investing in Teak in Panama
03-09-2018, 12:44 AM
Any "easy investment opportunity" in Central or South America is usually neither easy nor a genuine lucrative opportunity.
Legitimate opportunities are not sold at conferences.
If you simply want Residence in Panama its not that difficult. I could go into a long explanation but you can find the answers with an easy Google search. Any number of lawyers in Panama City can get this done for you in a short time. If you are serious about this, those are the people who you should be talking to about this.
I find that very few people with these inquiries are actually serious.
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Investing in Teak in Panama
03-10-2018, 06:40 PM
Quote: (03-08-2018 07:41 PM)Brother Abdul Majeed Wrote:
Quote: (03-05-2018 01:29 AM)renotime Wrote:
If you are specifically looking to acquire Panamanian citizenship you need to deposit 5k and open a business. You will also have to renounce any other citizenship you have.
http://nomadcapitalist.com/second-passport/panama/
Nonsense.
I currently reside in Panama and am in the process of acquiring residency. I've lived here for about 2 years on a tourist visa.
For the first year and a half I had to renew my toursit visa (which lasts 6 months) by popping across the border into Costa Rica (which is half an hour from where I live), staying for 3 days, and returning to Panama and get a new one.
Now the rules have tightened, mainly due to Venezuelans who are here illegally, and I'm compelled to return to my country of origin for a month before returning. I have a way to get around this, but I'm not going to divulge how I do this on an open forum.
There are a number of ways to obtain Panamanian residency and then go on to obtain citizenship from there. A panamanian residency status card only requires you to be in the country one day out of every two years to keep in good standing.
You are absolutely allowed to be a dual citizen in Panama.
Investing in forestry is a little bit of a loophole that allows people to obtain their residency and then go on to obtain citizenship. Teak is one such way, it is not a scam at all, there are just certain boxes that have to be ticked off to make sure you are doing it the right way.
Apparently you are right.
"The Panamanian nationality law requires an oath of renunciation of former citizenship as a condition of naturalization. However, currently the US court system interprets this oath as "non-meaningful" and therefore it will not result in the loss of US citizenship, unless the US citizen renounces their citizenship directly to the US State Department, which will then result in loss of US nationality."
I won't link because the site is trying to sell a lot of stuff. OP, you should obviously consult an attorney, but this sounds like the easiest way to get a second passport if you can't do it through ancestry.
You want to know the only thing you can assume about a broken down old man? It's that he's a survivor.
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Investing in Teak in Panama
03-11-2018, 09:40 PM
I have asked several people at various consulates and embassies. I can't seem to get answer on the citizenship question.
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Investing in Teak in Panama
05-16-2018, 11:47 PM
Quote: (03-15-2018 01:07 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:
Quote: (03-04-2018 10:58 PM)puckerman Wrote:
Is it this easy to acquire residency and citizenship in Panama?
I have visited Panama and also spoken to immigration lawyers there. Residency is very easy to obtain if your home country is included within the Panama "Friendly Nations" Visa Program.
Forget citizenship unless you plan to live in Panama for a minimum of five years before applying for citizenship. [....]
Except for birthright (including ancestry), can you think of any other way to obtain a citizenship without actually residing in the country for (typically) five years?
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Investing in Teak in Panama
05-17-2018, 02:21 AM
This ^
There is an old German saying, "you get old like a cow and still learn." (Man wird alt wie eine Ku und lernt immer noch zu.) Well, I learned something here and in the referenced thread, thank you. The biggest surprise there was that for a sufficient amount you can even buy your way into the EU, including Austria, which is a Schengen country. It costs millions, but that's beside the point. And there are other EU passports for less, scheduled to become Schengen too one day and good for work anywhere in the EU already.
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Investing in Teak in Panama
05-17-2018, 04:30 AM
Could be sound investment, my sailboat has teak decks and last time I replaced them I took the boat to Panama, which was the recommendation of my shipwright friends due to the cost of teak and cost of labor.
If I remember correctly the cost of the teak in the US was 80 - 90% higher than in Panama.