[alphacentauri]

As the title says. Some quick info about me is that I am in my upper 20s, European-American, and currently living in Japan. I got out of a multi-year LTR before I left the US, and I've been going to parties and events here to practice my skills on women, both Japanese and foreign. A few weeks ago, I had my first date after my LTR, and I'm wondering if you gentlemen can give me some advice on odd things that transpired.

So, I met this German girl at a party. We made some flirty and superficial conversation for about 10 minutes, then I got her number and mingled with other people for the night. A few days later, I texted her with an opening that referenced something we talked about at the party, then made a few lines of banter before asking her out for later in the week. Her soonest available time was Saturday night, so I made plans to meet her for ice skating followed by drinks at a bar. At the time, I was living in a sharehouse, so I decided to make the date closer to her place just in case things started to heat up.

We met at the train station and walked over to the ice-skating rink together. Her skill level is similar to mine (beginner), so we held hands and skated together, making good conversation along the way. I let her do most of the talking and usually interjected to drop some quick wisdom or make a quick joke about something she said. Occasionally she would partially fall, but I'd catch her and pull her up, giving us ample opportunity to touch. Things went pretty well, other than odd conversation from her about how she loves the EU (she works for the German government) and how Japan isn't feminist enough (along with the remark "Even Germany still has a long way to go", to which I laughed internally), but to her credit, she was polite and positive about everything she said, never speaking in a jeering tone. Good for her I guess.

Unfortunately, towards the end of our skating session, we both slipped and fell, and we decided to stop skating after that. Everything seemed the same at first, but as we walked away from the rink and I put my arm around her as we walked to the next venue, I noticed she was holding her purse on the same side as me. Later I ended up on the other side of her after we crossed a street, and the purse moved over to the other side! Worse, as we were walking towards the bar, we happened to pass a subway station, and she pointed at it and said "Oh, are we going home now?" Ouch! She had told me earlier she planned on getting up early the next day for a Skype conversation, but I mentioned going to the bar for a bit, and she was okay with it. I was considering ending the date because of the mixed signals I was getting from her, but I pressed on.

When we got to the bar and sat down at the table, with me right next to her, she put that damn purse on her lap, and it stayed glued to her lap for the rest of our time there. She was still pleasant and talkative and not ignoring me or looking at her phone, but I was having trouble reading her. I ended the night after one drink, and we shared a train for just one stop. I didn't bother going for the kiss at the end because I was tired of her nonsense, and instead I got the fake hug and smile goodbye. Neither of us has since contacted the other, and I have deleted her number.

I'm wondering what I could have done differently here. My biggest issue was her purse behavior. Should I have confronted her about it? Should I have been more aggressive in going for a kiss despite the signals she was sending me? My assumption is that she was/is lonely in a new city and was willing to string me along for a night of entertainment, but wasn't interested in anything more. Thanks in advance for any advice.

[The Alpha Virgin]

Better to lose the girl because you were too "aggressive" and pushy (which shows huge confidence) rather than, like now, sitting here wondering what could have happened if you weren't so passive. You wouldn't have much too lose and I think it's standard to go in for a kiss on the first date regardless if she doesn't give you the best signals for it.

But if she talked good about feminism, it can't be that much of a loss anyway for you.

[Winston Wolfe]

Well done reading her actions instead of concentrating on what she said. The purse behavior and her not contacting you afterwards is all you need to know.

(02-18-2018 09:54 AM)alphacentauri Wrote:  

I'm wondering what I could have done differently here. My biggest issue was her purse behavior. Should I have confronted her about it? Should I have been more aggressive in going for a kiss despite the signals she was sending me? My assumption is that she was/is lonely in a new city and was willing to string me along for a night of entertainment, but wasn't interested in anything more. Thanks in advance for any advice.

I wasn't there and it's impossible to assess the whole situation, but 9 out of 10 times, body language signals like this happen unconsciously. It's a manifestation of her being uncomfortable and she can't help but do it (unless she is very aware of her body language at all times - most people aren't). If anything, confronting her about it would probably make her more confused / annoyed.

I don't think she was stringing you along for a night of entertainment, or at least, that probably wasn't her intention from the start. I think you lost her somewhere along the way.

Is it possible that she picked up on you not agreeing with her feminist viewpoints? Did you agree/amplify or did you react defensively and a bit of an argument started?

[arsenal2000]

Hi Alphacentauri ,

For someone out of a relationship I feel you did well. Had a couple of suggestions that I feel I would have done differently.

Below you mentioned that you got the number without really knowing much about her . I would suggest before getting a phone number to screen and know the girl better if she has a boy friend, is she looking for just fun or a LTR , do you have many areas in common and so on . Make use of the first interaction with a girl to screen , convey your intent and if you decide she is some want you to spend time then make plans.

(02-18-2018 09:54 AM)alphacentauri Wrote:  

So, I met this German girl at a party. We made some flirty and superficial conversation for about 10 minutes, then I got her number and mingled with other people for the night.

My other suggestion is to just make a simple plan like just having drinks etc where you can screen and build a rapport with her instead of something like ice skating. From what I understand during your initial interaction as well later in the texting you hardly knew much about her. It would had been better after spending time talking and building an attraction then decide if you need to bounce her to a different location.

[/quote]
I'm wondering what I could have done differently here. My biggest issue was her purse behavior. Should I have confronted her about it? Should I have been more aggressive in going for a kiss despite the signals she was sending me? My assumption is that she was/is lonely in a new city and was willing to string me along for a night of entertainment, but wasn't interested in anything more. Thanks in advance for any advice. [/quote]

Regarding the pursue I would have made a joke or light banter about it to see how she responds. If there is no rapport with her I am not sure if there was any point in going for a kiss. Regarding your assumption if she was simply stringing you. This is the area where I feel Proper screening , building a rapport would have been useful. You should have been asking questions that would have given you be a better idea of what she was looking for .

[astro]

"Oh, are we going home now?"

You missed it. This was the time to amp it up. A simple "Are we going home now? Girl, I am not that easy. At least buy me a drink first."

Then you go to the bar. Then you keep up the sexual vibe. Then you go home.

[birthday cat]

alphacentauri,

How long was your LTR and how much dating experience did you have before that LTR? Do you consider yourself a novice, beginner, or intermediate?

How did the conversation about feminism develop? Did you start a conversation about politics or feminism or did she begin discussing those topics?

[alphacentauri]

(02-18-2018 08:37 PM)Winston Wolfe Wrote:  

I wasn't there and it's impossible to assess the whole situation, but 9 out of 10 times, body language signals like this happen unconsciously. It's a manifestation of her being uncomfortable and she can't help but do it (unless she is very aware of her body language at all times - most people aren't). If anything, confronting her about it would probably make her more confused / annoyed.

I guess I should make her feel more comfortable — which I thought I did during the ice-skating segment — but once the closed-off body language started, was the night still salvageable?

Quote:

Is it possible that she picked up on you not agreeing with her feminist viewpoints? Did you agree/amplify or did you react defensively and a bit of an argument started?

I don't remember exactly what I said, but I basically ignored her comment and explained that being Japanese in general means you're fucked because it's not like Japanese men have great lives here. I delivered all my lines in a calm, neutral tone, and she did the same, actually. We never argued, and there was never any tension in our conversations.

(02-19-2018 12:24 AM)arsenal2000 Wrote:  

My other suggestion is to just make a simple plan like just having drinks etc where you can screen and build a rapport with her instead of something like ice skating. From what I understand during your initial interaction as well later in the texting you hardly knew much about her. It would had been better after spending time talking and building an attraction then decide if you need to bounce her to a different location.

Ice skating gives plenty of time for conversation as long as you're both skating together, plus guaranteed touching from the start. It's certainly not a venue I'd use for all of my first dates because it's a bit pricey here, but I wanted to try it and used this opportunity with her to do it.

Quote:

You should have been asking questions that would have given you be a better idea of what she was looking for .

Can you give some examples of these questions?

(02-20-2018 11:10 AM)birthday cat Wrote:  

alphacentauri,

How long was your LTR and how much dating experience did you have before that LTR? Do you consider yourself a novice, beginner, or intermediate?

How did the conversation about feminism develop? Did you start a conversation about politics or feminism or did she begin discussing those topics?

It was on and off for 5 years, sometimes long-distance. I was focusing on other things in my life at the time and stuck with the relationship due to some personal issues, but I ended it early this year and wish I had done it sooner. I have very little prior dating experience and only one other LTR that lasted for about 6 months. I'm definitely a novice/beginner at this point. I've been reading sites like RooshV on and off over the past several years, but I only started putting these ideas into practice since late last year.

I made sure to avoid mentioning politics or social issues. The topic arose because we were talking about life in Japan, which despite being a developed country, still has more traditional gender roles than other developed countries (not just western developed countries — it's even more traditional than Taiwan, Singapore, and so on). I was talking about the Japanese in general and how they think and act compared to us, but she brought up the status of women on her own.

[birthday cat]

My advice is to focus on getting more experience and improving your logistics rather than worrying about this date.

For example this thing about her purse. She could have used the purse as a barrier because she wasn't attracted or wasn't comfortable. She could have meant nothing at all by it. She could have used it as an obstacle that she wanted you to overcome. It's difficult to say without seeing what happened so there isn't much use in you analyzing it but if you get more experience then you will know what is happening in these situations.

(02-21-2018 12:32 AM)alphacentauri Wrote:  

I'm definitely a novice/beginner at this point. I've been reading sites like RooshV on and off over the past several years, but I only started putting these ideas into practice since late last year.

I cannot emphasize enough that experience is the most important thing for you. Talk to a lot of girls. Date a lot of girls. Make friends with guys who are successful with girls and watch what they do.

Logistics: you are making things very hard for yourself by trying to go to a girl's place instead of your place. I don't what your sharehouse is like but I've known many of young guys living abroad in sharehouses where many people were banging. Maybe you can bring a girl back and turn on some music. If not then find another house.

Tactics: I don't like to focus too much on tactics but that date was a bad setup. You barely knew the girl but gave her your Saturday night. You went to her location. You setup an activity date. You put a lot of effort into that and she knows that on some level. Compare that to getting coffee or a drink at a place near your house on a weekday or weekend afternoon.

The Girl: It's difficult to speculate without knowing the girl but what we know is that she is german, she works for the german government, and she proactively talks about feminist issues on a first date. I wouldn't go out with this type of girl because I'm far enough into game that I have better options. However, for a guy who needs experience.......a girl like this is probably going to respond well to Heartiste style of game - aloof charismatic jerkboy who playfully teases a lot and doesn't give a fuck. You were were probably not edgy enough or too nice. Over-confidence works with these girls and sometimes pure arrogance works if the girl is damaged enough. You probably didn't lose out on much. These girls are fuck-buddys at best. They don't know how to be happy so they won't be able to keep someone else happy in a relationship.

[alphacentauri]

(02-26-2018 08:56 PM)birthday cat Wrote:  

My advice is to focus on getting more experience and improving your logistics rather than worrying about this date.

Not worrying, just trying to learn from it. I've had several dates since then that have gone much better.

Quote:

Logistics: you are making things very hard for yourself by trying to go to a girl's place instead of your place.

I moved into my own place a few weeks ago, so thankfully this is no longer an issue. I've also sworn off sharehouses for life (fuck those shitholes).

Quote:

Tactics: I don't like to focus too much on tactics but that date was a bad setup. You barely knew the girl but gave her your Saturday night. You went to her location. You setup an activity date. You put a lot of effort into that and she knows that on some level. Compare that to getting coffee or a drink at a place near your house on a weekday or weekend afternoon.

Agreed about the weekend, but she said she was too busy during the week. I shouldn't have given in so easily though. And I don't think it took "a lot of effort" to meet for ice skating then head to a bar. Neither requires reservations or pre-planning beyond knowing where to meet.

Regarding the ice skating date, I have read other threads on here where bros discussed dates like these as ideas for first dates, but then there are suggestions like yours where you say coffee/drink dates are the only way to go for a first date. It's confusing for a noob. Ultimately I decided on ice skating because I wanted to do it and I could use her as my excuse to go. From now on I'll try to reserve such events for girls I know better — i.e., for the second or later date.

Quote:

The Girl: It's difficult to speculate without knowing the girl but what we know is that she is german, she works for the german government, and she proactively talks about feminist issues on a first date. I wouldn't go out with this type of girl because I'm far enough into game that I have better options. However, for a guy who needs experience.......a girl like this is probably going to respond well to Heartiste style of game - aloof charismatic jerkboy who playfully teases a lot and doesn't give a fuck. You were were probably not edgy enough or too nice. Over-confidence works with these girls and sometimes pure arrogance works if the girl is damaged enough. You probably didn't lose out on much. These girls are fuck-buddys at best. They don't know how to be happy so they won't be able to keep someone else happy in a relationship.

It doesn't sound like this type of girl is worth my effort, but thank you for the analysis and tips.

[birthday cat]

(02-27-2018 01:20 AM)alphacentauri Wrote:  

Agreed about the weekend, but she said she was too busy during the week. I shouldn't have given in so easily though. And I don't think it took "a lot of effort" to meet for ice skating then head to a bar. Neither requires reservations or pre-planning beyond knowing where to meet.

Regarding the ice skating date, I have read other threads on here where bros discussed dates like these as ideas for first dates, but then there are suggestions like yours where you say coffee/drink dates are the only way to go for a first date. It's confusing for a noob. Ultimately I decided on ice skating because I wanted to do it and I could use her as my excuse to go. From now on I'll try to reserve such events for girls I know better — i.e., for the second or later date.

The reason I don't like to concentrate too much on tactics is because guys take too much of a black-and-white or binary approach to these things. I'll try to explain further.

I'm not opposed to an ice skating date. I'm just saying that there were several things that added up to this being a bad first date setup - the type of girl, you didn't know the girl well, it was a saturday night, it was an activity date, you went to her.

If you take away three or four of those five things then there isn't a problem with a simple activity date on the first date. It's the combination of everything.

It all goes back to experience. With more experience it becomes easier to see how everything fits together.

[arsenal2000]

[quote='alphacentauri' pid='1740413' dateline='1519191155'
[quote]
You should have been asking questions that would have given you be a better idea of what she was looking for .
[/quote]
Can you give some examples of these questions?
[/quote]



[quote]
My assumption is that she was/is lonely in a new city and was willing to string me along for a night of entertainment, but wasn't interested in anything more. Thanks in advance for any advice. [/quote]


Hi Alphacentauri ,
I have seen girls living outside their countries have a boyfriend back home but string along guys for social activities. I screen girls about this before making plans. For example, in this scenario I would have asked her what made you to move to Japan? based on the answer I could have followed up with do you miss your family, Boyfriend or friend back home? Do you live with room mates? I would have used the conversation about Japanese culture to say something of the effect how I do not agree with Japanese society frowning upon woman having ONS. Based on her answer I would have followed up with have you had an ONS? or other questions to see her openness to have sex fast. Based on the responses I would have planned my future interactions with her. For ONS and casual relation’s I do not bother myself about her social and political views but screen for availability.

I do not make plans outside of a coffee or drinks to avoid being stringed along as friends by a girl. For example, it is like if I am not interested in a girl but she has tickets to a game I would take up the offer to watch the game with her. It is the same with the girls that they may come along for the activity rather than to interact with the guy. It is probably in lines with what Birthday Cat mentioned. Hope these help in with your future interactions. Good Luck mate.