[Siddartha]

-LONG EFFORT POST AHEAD-
So, I have quite the situation trying to force it's way up my bunghole and melt my insides, lads.

I seem to have a text-game demon that indefatigably manages to kill almost every single texting exchange I have with eligible women.
I'll be the first to admit that my confidence and actions, especially around women, have been massively refurbished from nonexistance since I was younger, but I seem to not get a damn thing about texting and I've been forced to watch phone leads wither to death in my hands more times than I'm comfortable with.

I usually poke around to see if the woman is open to plainly texting, if not, I try for CH 1 for 3 maxim and throw in non-sequitur and projection for when I can.

Here are some examples from the past couple weeks:

1) Woman I dated in high school, tracks me down every couple of months to see if I want to date(fuck), texted me randomly out of the blue, says I'm the only man to ever make her feel like a "woman", yadda yadda:
her: What are you up to?
me: Saving the world
her: That sounds pretty good, are you still in -city-?
me: No *lady*, I won't allow you to try and take me on a date and seduce me, I'm not that kind of guy </3 (assume the sale)
her:LOL well I'm glad that's out of the way, because I was totally just deciding whether or not to trap you in my dungeon because you're out of my league lol, jk.
meungeon? Idk lady I don't think you'd be a good rope bunny
her: "LOL (seriously though, aren't you going to take me out)"<-she did text that with the parentheses
-logistics, can't really settle so choose sunday, she wants afternoon-
her: after 11? I have morning shift
me: idk I prefer early morning ...
-dead-
My best guess for this scenario is that I may have had good momentum but by using both "idk" and ellipses, I just somehow beta'd out, or she found something else, oh well, I'm a student of life.

2)Another woman I dated but dropped out on because of family matters, randomly texted me up about a week ago:
her:Hey how are you? Sorry I haven't kept in touch, I've had a looooong month.
-Deleted her number so went through the usual "who is this", probably helped DHV but I'm not entirely sure-
me:I'm at x place for an interview right now
her: wow, good luck!
-2 hours-
meamn, that was interesting
-minor talk about what I was there for-
me: yeah, everything great on my end, what's up with you?
-dead air for 2 days-
-after 4 days:-
me: Gay
-immediate response-
her: What?

I'm not sure what happened, my only good guess is that I treated the convo too much like talking and not trying to get dick in vag which probably turned off her tingles, it's extremely interesting yet not surprising that classic CH non-sequitur got an immediate response

3)Girl I ran into at the store, Did more of a zan thing and had a long fruitful convo with her, she was digging her phone out of her pocket before I could even finish saying she should come "visit me sometime".
her: Found the book you recc'd! *note she sent a pic of her holding it, which I found odd since I'd only known her for 45 mins at that point*
me:wonderful
-2 hours later-
her:btw my name is ***** just in case haha
her: what are you up to?
me:made dinner, going to dive into the book I got
her:Awesome, what'd you make?
me:Beef and eggs, going to try and get some pullups/chins in after if I can make sure my finger doesn't explode again (long story, she kinda knew)
-radio silence-
-because I didn't want to lose her, the next day I looked up a bunch of text game resources and went with a non-sequitor/eavesdrop-
me, next day: we'll see (badly engineered, I know now)
-more silence-

In this case, I felt like I had such incredible momentum but something just happened and I either blew up (if not the day of, then when I sent the "we'll see") or I need to get the balls and say "you, me, date." more often.
Really hope some of the more experienced guys here can see what I'm doing right and wrong. I know I'm not doing the best job of spinning plates, and that's getting fixed, and I also feel as though I should use texting to get more straight to the fucking date or her in a bed. At present I'm also weak when it comes to dates because I have probably about ZERO kino, and aside that, I also have these self-limiting beliefs (text game demon, zero kino, scarce women in my life) but I'm correcting all of those currently in the strongest possible matter.
Aside that, I'm not entirely sure where I'm out on these exchanges, and any help or insight would be appreciated.

cheers

[Statesman]

The problem is the length of conversation and lack of perceived decisiveness from you.

All 3 of these women wanted to see you. Rather than talking about mundane shit (which makes you far less aloof and attractive), you should go straight in for setting up the date.

You don't even need some ultra-Alpha-5000 way to do it. After a couple of messages, just say "let's get coffee Saturday, when's good for you?"

Text game doesn't need to be complicated. To be honest, I've always found it to be easiest the earlier into your relationship with the girl. It's almost purely about logistics.

When she becomes a plate (or more) that's when you need more nuance and game.

[Montrose]

Lol your texting sounds like what I do when I want to get rid of a girl politely. Answer nonsense, drop non sequitur and never ever ask for a date.

When I do want to meet the girl, I ask for a date within the first three messages. It’s now or never anyway.

[birthday cat]

I try not to think about text game too much. I try to have short text conversations or conversations in real life that are based on an understanding of my personality and the girl's personality more than trying too hard with game tactics. For example, the "logistics only" style for text game seems logical to me and I understand why it works for many guys but short conversations with a little humor work better with my personality.

I think the three situations in the original post are clear examples of over-gaming. Most game tactics are going to screw things up badly when used in the wrong context.

Stop talking so much in the first example. The girl is trying to setup a meeting with you so stop trying to game her and just setup the meeting. The last line is the worst. She suggests a time to meet and your response is "idk I prefer early morning". She is going to interpret this as either you implying that you don't want to meet or that you are being difficult. Girls do this shit to us and it is annoying. If her suggested time doesn't work then suggest another time.

In the second example, I think the conversation essentially ended when you asked who she was. You are over-gaming if you think this helped you from a DHV perspective because she was probably offended that you didn't know who she was. Saying "gay" after a few days of silence is using a Heartiste tactic outside of the context that it was meant to be used. You'll probably get an immediate response but you probably won't see the girl again.

In the third situation you need to either setup a date or have a normal conversation. You respond to the girl but never ask her questions. You are responding but you aren't engaged in the conversation. Either have a normal conversation or try to setup a date but don't just make statements for no reason.

I read some of your other threads and I think this theme applies to the rest of your interactions with women. You are trying so hard to use game tactics that you are forgetting to act like a normal person with basic social awareness.

[Siddartha]

so far we have:

1)peel texting back down to logistics
2)If it has to be more, keep it brief but open, playing convo back and forth
3)One does not need heavy handed game techniques, especially at first
4) don't let her know that you deleted her contact or forgot her
5)women are truly human too, even over a tumultous minefield like texting

Birthday cat, your post was the most poignant, thank you. However I'm surprised because you keep saying that I'd need the context that CH describes, but I feel that CH described exactly the situations I was in, refreshed or cold lead that needed a jolt. I can understand however where I took good theory into burnt out application. If you have any good writeups/threads anywhere about more professionally handled situations, I'd love to read them.
I also agree with you that I forget to act like a normal human bean, but I just feel like I have to keep up with a nuclear arms race just to stay current and have even a finger in the game and the market. I already know it signals lack of confidence and deep-seated self respect to have that mindset, but atm I'm still climbing out of a dark, terrible pit that had me trapped for the past 3 years and it's going to take continued effort against myself and failure to start shining.
Getting critique'd may not be comfortable but every post helps me pare out what's holding me back, thanks so far.

[dknightbro]

I'm a minimalist texter.

The straight core of my text game is logistics & I only sprinkle value if necessary.

Works very effectively as the girl can sense I am no-nonsense & get straight to the point.

Your text game needs a lot of work. Good stuff on the approach, getting digits, etc. but I can see precisely why girls start dropping out during your text game.

I had a problem with girls dropping out during text game, but that was with 9-10s. 6-8s I pretty much have no major issues with text game.

Every feedback that has been mentioned above is legit. I'll give you my barebones feedback:

-Learn to read IOIs (indicator of interests). These girls demonstrated MAJOR IOIs & was even willing to help you arrange the date (I'm not even that lucky with my recent leads).
-By violating MAJOR IOI responses, you simply blew yourself out of text game. Wait until you start dealing with girls where you need to lead all the way. Your text game would be over before it even began.
-Anytime a girl gives you a MAJOR IOI, immediately strike at logistics "*Location* @ *this time* OK?"

You have a lot of baggage climbing up. Just know I was there once. No experience with girls & trying to learn game. Nothing was handed to me & I failed continuously & continuously whether it be on the approach or text game. Good luck new gamer~

[AneroidOcean]

(02-08-2018 10:12 PM)Siddartha Wrote:  

1) Woman I dated in high school, tracks me down every couple of months to see if I want to date(fuck), texted me randomly out of the blue, says I'm the only man to ever make her feel like a "woman", yadda yadda:
her: What are you up to?
me: Saving the world
her: That sounds pretty good, are you still in -city-?
me: No *lady*, I won't allow you to try and take me on a date and seduce me, I'm not that kind of guy </3 (assume the sale)
her:LOL well I'm glad that's out of the way, because I was totally just deciding whether or not to trap you in my dungeon because you're out of my league lol, jk.
meungeon? Idk lady I don't think you'd be a good rope bunny
her: "LOL (seriously though, aren't you going to take me out)"<-she did text that with the parentheses
-logistics, can't really settle so choose sunday, she wants afternoon-
her: after 11? I have morning shift
me: idk I prefer early morning ...
-dead-
My best guess for this scenario is that I may have had good momentum but by using both "idk" and ellipses, I just somehow beta'd out, or she found something else, oh well, I'm a student of life.

What did you expect her to do or say? She told you she had to work and you basically said you wanted to meet when she couldn't.

Why would you answer like that? It's not even beta, it's just sorta autistic. Why wouldn't you just sort out another time, flirt until you re-schedule, or just give her a call?

(02-08-2018 10:12 PM)Siddartha Wrote:  

2)Another woman I dated but dropped out on because of family matters, randomly texted me up about a week ago:
her:Hey how are you? Sorry I haven't kept in touch, I've had a looooong month.
-Deleted her number so went through the usual "who is this", probably helped DHV but I'm not entirely sure-
me:I'm at x place for an interview right now
her: wow, good luck!
-2 hours-
meamn, that was interesting
-minor talk about what I was there for-
me: yeah, everything great on my end, what's up with you?
-dead air for 2 days-
-after 4 days:-
me: Gay
-immediate response-
her: What?

She was interested in your job interview and then instead of rewarding that by giving her a chance to meet up with you and talk about that and other things she finds interesting (like maybe flirting in person), you told her a super generic statement along with a super generic question. Where did you expect her to go with that?

You have to lead with women. LEAD. Don't go "sooo uhh what's up with you?" and expect anything to come of it. The "gay" response is not an appropriate CH response. If it's a CH response it should be something like "you die" without even a question mark.

This next one I'll break down (my comments in bold in the quote below):

(02-08-2018 10:12 PM)Siddartha Wrote:  

3)Girl I ran into at the store, Did more of a zan thing and had a long fruitful convo with her, she was digging her phone out of her pocket before I could even finish saying she should come "visit me sometime".
her: Found the book you recc'd! *note she sent a pic of her holding it, which I found odd since I'd only known her for 45 mins at that point*
me:wonderful
Not bad, I would've gone somewhere with it, but you were aloof at least without being super cold.
-2 hours later-
her:btw my name is ***** just in case haha
her: what are you up to?
Shows significant interest
me:made dinner, going to dive into the book I got
Too logical/direct, you should get her imagination going...this is kinda boring
her:Awesome, what'd you make?
She still is interested, giving you another chance to pull her in to the date
me:Beef and eggs, going to try and get some pullups/chins in after if I can make sure my finger doesn't explode again (long story, she kinda knew)
What the hell? Why would you even tell her you're eating beef and eggs. That's so plain and boring. Also, the pullups/chins thing is kinda boring too. No imagination. I understand it references something she kinda knew, it's not that interesting and it doesn't involve her and it doesn't involve her imagining anything or laughing or having any emotional response.

If you're going to tell her you're eating beef and eggs, at least say it differently. "sauteeing some garlic for the beef, the smell in here right now.." and let her imagination run wild. Let her tell you about how that makes her salivate because she's hungry, let her challenge your cooking skills..SOMETHING that creates further interest that will end in a date.
-radio silence-
-because I didn't want to lose her, the next day I looked up a bunch of text game resources and went with a non-sequitor/eavesdrop-
me, next day: we'll see (badly engineered, I know now)
-more silence-

I have a suspicion that your conversation is okay in person, but over text you go total robot. There's no body language to pick up on, you are nervous about what to send, etc...

I think you need to go read the what should I text next thread from front to back and you should be able to exorcise your demon.

[HankMoody]

Your calibration is off, and text messages are borderline awkward. It's like you've read some material on game but don't know how to use it correctly.

I'm not saying this to be mean, it's just constructive criticism. What you need to do...

1. Stop being outcome dependent. She doesn't respond? Who cares? Go to the gym, ride your bike, go hit a heavy bag, or play Nintendo.

2. Keep it short and super light. My goto lines: "good stuff" "coolio" "right on" "ok" "sounds good" "right" "yea" "nah" "chu doin" "oh yeah?" "haha" "yup" "nope"

3. Use texting mostly for logistics. It's way easier to fuck up a potential bang via over texting than under texting. "Witty banter" is not all that funny. Yours comes off like you're trying too hard. Laconic texts are way more effective.

4. Never use "LOL" "JK" or emojis. That shit is for women and children. Never apologize for anything.

5. Feel free to just change the subject and ask her to hang out. "im in the middle of roasting a chicken. come over and give me a hand. i'll send an uber in 10" (if she says no the interest isn't there).

Personally, this works well for me because I hate texting. I don't care for "witty banter" over my phone, and I'm usually doing something more interesting. I keep my phone on "do not disturb" for a decent portion of the day.

[birthday cat]

Hank - I think you should slow down with the condescending talk about the style of game that other guys use. I'm glad you found a style that works for you but one size doesn't fit all. For example, a lot of your writings are almost like a guide on how NOT to bang asian and latin girls in the 18 to 23 range. I appreciate most of the things you write because I know your concepts work in some situations which is why I try to be tactful when pointing out things that wouldn't work in other situations.

(02-10-2018 07:17 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

It's way easier to fuck up a potential bang via over texting than under texting.

I agree with this most of the time and I agree with it in the case of the OP but there are exceptions. The most obvious exception is online game when you know the girl is already talking to many other guys that are attractive to her and you have to differentiate yourself. There also some girls who simply want to talk more via texting or whatsapp before meeting or banging. There are also guys who are good enough at conversations that they can flirt and challenge the girl via text.

20nation is a guy with a very high level of game and the ability to teach game to different types of guys. In this blog post he gives two examples of his whatsapp conversations where he uses things like emoticons, "lol", and witty banter. I'm not suggesting this style for everyone. Some guys don't have the skills for long conversations via text and will fuck things up. This style can also be very time consuming but 20nation's perspective is that this style is what works best for him when he is going after 8s and above who have almost unlimited men to choose from. The ability to engage a girl's emotions can make a big difference for some guys.

This is an excellent article from Psychology Today about "matching and mirroring" which is a very powerful technique although it isn't talked about much in the manosphere. It's important to understand that matching and mirroring is not mimicry and I encourage guys to read the entire article before commenting on it. I'll give a few examples on how to use matching and mirroring....

If I'm on a date with a girl and she talks quietly with limited body language then I will adjust my speech and body language to an extent. I won't talk loudly with a lot of hand gestures but I also won't change all my body language to mimic her.

If I'm talking in whatsapp with a girl who uses concise communication without emoticons then I will do the same. But if I'm talking to a girl who uses 20 emoticons per minute and more emoticons than words then I might use a few emoticons but less than she does. There has to be a balance between matching and mirroring and masculine-feminine polarity. However, if you always use very concise texting with girls like this then many of those girls won't meet you because they will be meeting with guys who do a better job of engaging their emotions.

[dknightbro]

I use a hybrid of Hank's & birthday cat's methods.

My default is Hank's: pure minimalist.

So it's a struggle for me to actively engage in long-winded convos via text. However, I can see a portion of girls where this style is better as birthday cat said.

I've adopted adding emojis for my demographic as I've found the responses are better than no-emotion texts.

As you progress to advanced text game, it comes down to calibration. Picking the appropriate style for the girl.

But nothing changes this fundamental fact of text game: point is to get her out on a Day 2.

[Jetset]

My text game is amateurish, too, but my sense is that texts should be either logistical or emotional/sensory payload. Maintenance texts should always be the latter or they shouldn't happen. A woman's inner world is often actually incredibly boring and she's counting on you to play with her and add some color. Imagine an ICBM of feels coming in on the target, a blast, and then silence.

I feel like those messages you showed us are supposed to be one or the other but never quite achieve liftoff, and it's just small talk because you're messaging for the sake of messaging - which is easy to do.

The other day a woman sent me a message about something personal and, due to the context of the conversation, I Google Translated something into her mother's native language and pasted it to her as a joke. She replied in that language telling me it was a "very sexy" thing to do, so I sent her back something absolutely filthy. We've never exchanged anything sexual. She loved it, like passing coded notes in class and finding out she's the star in a trashy romance novel. Then, we're done. I'm gone before I make it weird trying to find something else to say and she's bored. For her, this will keep her hamster going for hours.



She'll cooperate next time I try to engage her attention, because she knows she gets a treat at the end. Skip the low-quality/low-payoff stuff that will dilute that part of her impression of you.

If you *need* to text for any reason other than meeting, find a way to add that payload. Do some impressionist painting with your words (Like AneroidOcean said above, don't be too logical. So you're on vacation. Are you warm by a fire? Does a desert sunset look like sweet cotton candy? So you did pull-ups. She doesn't care. Are you "sweating", "pumped", "breathing heavy"?), send a beautiful picture that will make her wish she was included in your life and feel like she's on a mini-date (Did the beef and eggs *look* great?), create just a little mystery/danger to give her something to worry about until she hears from you again, or make some assumptions and tie what she's talking about to the most interesting subject she knows: herself. "Why, what's the draw of that for you? Is this something you've been thinking about trying since you were a little girl?"