[SteezeySteve]

zel I remember a similar discussing on longecity a while ago. Thats a really good resource for health and brain performance info.
They were talking about how during times of famine species will live longer to preserve the species.

The practical application was that eating smaller portions and if might improve life span. The definite conclusion was that eating massive glutinous amounts like we do in the west is not optimal for life span and health.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

< Actually it's not replicated anywhere. When a people starve, then they don't get enough nutrients. You would need supplements and starvation, then it might work, but supplements are a modern invention barely a few decades old.

The highest longevity tribes as studied by Dr. Wallach were found to come about due to massive nutrient-rich diet:

https://www.amazon.com/AGEBEATERS-Their-...bc?ie=UTF8

They had natural unprocessed foods of course. Nowadays with increased knowledge we could add on that and get even better results.

There is the Calorie Restriction Society with dozens of people trying that long-term experiment, but the diet is rather extreme.

But fact is that high nutrient intake, low calorie is known to increase life expectancy and keep you far younger.

Other tools are stem-cell treatments/creams and hormone injections. Those do not necessarily prolong your life, but you do look and act much younger far longer.

Raw vegan lady over 70. The same results can likely be attained with veggies and good steak.

If you can afford it then life is more fun to be a fit 75 year old with massive hormone level than a decrepit 75 year old who can barely do anything.

But that is all low-tech science - my guess is that we will find better tools and technologies to clean up our body of toxins, give it nutrients, so that humans will simply age much much slower. We will live to be 140 while looking like well-kept people in their 50s. That is what I do think that science will give us, not some miraculous DNA-recombination that will make us immortal. And that will be frankly enough. You will likely need to choose 3 jobs living 140 years. Have each job 35 years, in order not to get bored.

[SteezeySteve]

Makes sense. Maximizing nutrients in what you eat. Damn Italians with their olive oil,fresh tomatoes,and parsley. Thats one of the things that makes me suspicious about the whole anti gluten movement and strict paleo. A good sauce and pasta or just some olive oil and garlic on it is awesome and Italians are some of the more healthy people. Obviously there's people who are intolerant but if it doesn't give you problems its one of the best ways for me to get calories so I can have mustle.

Theres a reason why you see the retired wise guy as an old man enjoying his garden and food is so central in that culture

I tried eating beef liver before but couldn't stomach it. I think organic bovine liver tabs should be right up there with fish oil for health supplements.

One of the reasons Id plan on being rich and agree would emphasize wealth is because of meat qaulity alone. If you can buy qaulity fresh fish,wild game meats,and grass fed beef like it ain't shit thats gonna be a game changer. Vegans have some validity to the argument of meat (especially fatty meat) being toxic because the animals being toxic.

But if you can afford the time to eat,and prepare meals thats huge. Going the extreme route with juicing,eating kale salads like candy,all organic meats is big. It takes a lot of time to eat kale,meat,and enough of whatever carbohydrates scource for those of us who are naturally smaller and need to fuel activity.

High nutrient foods like kale,fruit,and high qaulity meat are a lot more satiating to and will naturally cause people to consume less. Make a kale,spinach, fruit,and greek yogurt smoothie in the morning and you will be filled up for a while with no cravings. Total calories will be under 500.

[questor70]

There's also a lot of research into training the immune system to fight specific cancers, so even if telomere lengthening increases rates of cancer then you just learn how to fight cancers better.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(04-12-2018 11:28 AM)SteezeySteve Wrote:  

Makes sense. Maximizing nutrients in what you eat. Damn Italians with their olive oil,fresh tomatoes,and parsley. Thats one of the things that makes me suspicious about the whole anti gluten movement and strict paleo. A good sauce and pasta or just some olive oil and garlic on it is awesome and Italians are some of the more healthy people. Obviously there's people who are intolerant but if it doesn't give you problems its one of the best ways for me to get calories so I can have mustle.

Theres a reason why you see the retired wise guy as an old man enjoying his garden and food is so central in that culture

I tried eating beef liver before but couldn't stomach it. I think organic bovine liver tabs should be right up there with fish oil for health supplements.

One of the reasons Id plan on being rich and agree would emphasize wealth is because of meat qaulity alone. If you can buy qaulity fresh fish,wild game meats,and grass fed beef like it ain't shit thats gonna be a game changer. Vegans have some validity to the argument of meat (especially fatty meat) being toxic because the animals being toxic.

But if you can afford the time to eat,and prepare meals thats huge. Going the extreme route with juicing,eating kale salads like candy,all organic meats is big. It takes a lot of time to eat kale,meat,and enough of whatever carbohydrates scource for those of us who are naturally smaller and need to fuel activity.

High nutrient foods like kale,fruit,and high qaulity meat are a lot more satiating to and will naturally cause people to consume less. Make a kale,spinach, fruit,and greek yogurt smoothie in the morning and you will be filled up for a while with no cravings. Total calories will be under 500.

The problem with meat is actually that we have very little need for it - the excess protein in later age just gets treated very similar to carbs. That is why Dr. Atkins died obese.

The raw vegans are partly so healthy because they take in the right amount of protein and their huge amount of juices and vegetables give them also huge amounts of nutrients with little calories. So long as they get enough proteins and fats, then they do fine.

Meat eaters could do the same - just have very little high-quality meat (100 mg is enough for most older folk) and add some other nutrient dense food. The couple 100yr-old tribes described by Dr. Wallach had each different diets - Japanese village lived off sweet potatoes, Korean tribe lived off sea weeds, fish and other local veggies, Italian islanders lived off local meat, fish, nuts, their own local wine the usual Italian cuisine. But all had a few things in common - unprocessed food, low level of toxins, high-density of nutrients - comparable to taking huge high-potency multivitamin-mineral doses.

That is what we know - eat little, but high quality, take good supplements, be always on the brink of being hungry, even eating 1-2 meals per day is found to be good, because 12-16 hours periods of intermittent fasting is how all those tribes lived as well. Turns out that such prolonged periods of not eating anything gets you a beneficial state where you start burning your own fat reserves.

There is a ton of stuff that we can do - even dropping sugar like this woman aged 47:

No need to wait for the globalists to fucking reprogram your entire DNA in order to make you immortal. Even the desirability of such a step can be discussed. Because you have to realize one thing - the super-rich of our world will use all their power and all their wealth to keep the tech only to them and no one else. They would never ever allow the serfs to get it - they won't even give it to indentured servants. Why should they? Just get new serfs, don't let the old ones have time to collect skills, money and power.

[Johnnyvee]

(04-11-2018 11:04 PM)Paracelsus Wrote:  

(04-10-2018 01:25 PM)Johnnyvee Wrote:  

(04-10-2018 02:04 AM)Paracelsus Wrote:  

(1) One of the main ways wealth moves anywhere is via death. Part of the reason we have an economic disaster in the making in the West is because the Baby Boomers are not keeling over as fast as previous generations did and have not been winnowed out by a large conventional war. If anti-ageing treatment means the lifespan lasts longer, wealth therefore is not passed down as quickly, or if it does transfer it leaves you with more long-time pensioners around and less jobs to go round, particularly as AI and robot work gets stronger. Stopping ageing is going to exacerbate these problems.

(2) If these treatments remove mutations, obviously we're not getting the X-Men any time soon.

We`re not talking about lingering in an old and decrepit state here Paracelsus, but actually getting younger. The problem with baby boomers is that they will get old and sick soon, and there are so many of them. There is just no way that young Westerners can pay for all that sick-care. So it would be better if they stayed young, at least a portion of them.

If these treatments are given to someone who has already retired at the age of 65, it is highly unlikely they'll willingly return to work. Why would they? They qualify for the age pension by benefit of not dying for 65 or 70 odd years, either they get a pension or they hang onto their residences or demand outsize prices for them from a younger generation that simply won't be able to afford them. The expense doesn't just lie in the reduced medical care bill, it lies in all the other benefits old farts get after they hit the magical age of retirement.

Come on man, that`s a pretty daft argument. Obviously rules can change, as they do all the time. They are increasing the age of retirement even today in some countries. You would of course have to pay your own way in this scenario, which would be easier than today with the skill and knowledge one could develop over a long life, with youthful vigour maintained. I realize there are tons of potential issues that comes with the idea of extending youth, but that you can`t alter retirement schemes is hardly one of them.

[Johnnyvee]

(04-12-2018 10:08 AM)SteezeySteve Wrote:  

zel I remember a similar discussing on longecity a while ago. Thats a really good resource for health and brain performance info.
They were talking about how during times of famine species will live longer to preserve the species.

The practical application was that eating smaller portions and if might improve life span. The definite conclusion was that eating massive glutinous amounts like we do in the west is not optimal for life span and health.

This is definitely proven science by this point. You can do it by caloric restriction, or a more Paleo/ketogenic type diet. (restricting protein somewhat also) It works by lowering the levels of the nutrient sensor mtor in cells. This in turn decreases the rate of cell proliferation and upregulates repair and maintenance mechanisms, and thereby extends life.

Interesting talk on this subject;

[SteezeySteve]

Zel old people do use protein less efficiently,but if we want to preserve hard earned muscle mass that would mean you do not want to decrease protein intake.

You'd want to increase protein intake to compensate for it + supplement with Lysine (#1) and other bcaas. Ill be megadosing lysine when I get older for this reason.

I disagree with the ridiculous amounts of protein that some bodybuilding circles reccomend. 2 grams per lb of bodyweight is starting to border ridiculous(maybe it does help the steroided up guys)
Also would say that a lot is not necessary and you can build muscle with lower amounts but there's definitely a sweet spot where if you eat fairly high protein it creates a nitrogen rich environment,and helps preserve/build muscle but isnt over doing things.

[Johnnyvee]

(04-12-2018 04:22 PM)SteezeySteve Wrote:  

Zel old people do use protein less efficiently,but if we want to preserve hard earned muscle mass that would mean you do not want to decrease protein intake.

You'd want to increase protein intake to compensate for it + supplement with Lysine (#1) and other bcaas. Ill be megadosing lysine when I get older for this reason.

I disagree with the ridiculous amounts of protein that some bodybuilding circles reccomend. 2 grams per lb of bodyweight is starting to border ridiculous(maybe it does help the steroided up guys)
Also would say that a lot is not necessary and you can build muscle with lower amounts but there's definitely a sweet spot where if you eat fairly high protein it creates a nitrogen rich environment,and helps preserve/build muscle but isnt over doing things.

Unfortunately there is an antagonism between growth and longevity. Unless you lengten telomeres.

[Kid Twist]

^ Which is why it's so silly in the politically correct world (one presumably obsessed with "science") very few will state the obvious ie that artificially selected west african descendants (as 1 example) have the biological characteristics they do.

For me, Bo Jackson was the greatest athlete of all time. I know he had the hip problem but even after that he was a fairly solid baseball player for several years. Have you seen him lately?

There's a cost for everything. I generally think longevity is an idol, btw. Look around, you don't see much quality. Just hanging on, in most circumstances ... before the debt state runs out I guess this is easy.

[Columbo]

(04-12-2018 10:50 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

< Actually it's not replicated anywhere. When a people starve, then they don't get enough nutrients. You would need supplements and starvation, then it might work, but supplements are a modern invention barely a few decades old.

The highest longevity tribes as studied by Dr. Wallach were found to come about due to massive nutrient-rich diet:

https://www.amazon.com/AGEBEATERS-Their-...bc?ie=UTF8

They had natural unprocessed foods of course. Nowadays with increased knowledge we could add on that and get even better results.

There is the Calorie Restriction Society with dozens of people trying that long-term experiment, but the diet is rather extreme.

But fact is that high nutrient intake, low calorie is known to increase life expectancy and keep you far younger.

Other tools are stem-cell treatments/creams and hormone injections. Those do not necessarily prolong your life, but you do look and act much younger far longer.

Raw vegan lady over 70. The same results can likely be attained with veggies and good steak.

If you can afford it then life is more fun to be a fit 75 year old with massive hormone level than a decrepit 75 year old who can barely do anything.

But that is all low-tech science - my guess is that we will find better tools and technologies to clean up our body of toxins, give it nutrients, so that humans will simply age much much slower. We will live to be 140 while looking like well-kept people in their 50s. That is what I do think that science will give us, not some miraculous DNA-recombination that will make us immortal. And that will be frankly enough. You will likely need to choose 3 jobs living 140 years. Have each job 35 years, in order not to get bored.

Steroids alert, c'mon it's obvious hahaha. Noobs still wanna believe this crap. Building a frame like that after 30 is almost impossible.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(05-03-2018 09:00 AM)Columbo Wrote:  

Steroids alert, c'mon it's obvious hahaha. Noobs still wanna believe this crap. Building a frame like that after 30 is almost impossible.

Bud - Dr. Life offers high-quality hormone replacement therapy. His T-count as at the level of an 18yo. Of course you cannot look like that at 80 without some additional T.

[Hypno]

Biotechnology is compounding geometrically.

Yale scientists resurrect dead pigs.

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-...fter-death

[Johnnyvee]

(05-07-2018 11:13 AM)Hypno Wrote:  

Biotechnology is compounding geometrically.

Yale scientists resurrect dead pigs.

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-...fter-death

I hope things like that won`t be necessary in order to extend life. Could be of importance to the Alcor cryonics patients though. My bet is that the technology will come one day that allows them to "thawed out." But that could be a long time. Hopefully for them the power will stay on permanently.

Personally I wouldn`t consider something as radical as freezing my head, or whole body. I think it will be possible to retain youth, and maybe also get younger biologically in the foreseeable future. And those treatments will be totally non-invasive. There`s even a lot you can do today only with diet and supplements. (And general lifestyle.)

[Johnnyvee]

Short update:

I`ve talked to some credible people in the life-extension community, and it seems that after some delay they have started to produce the large quantities needed of the gene therapy vector (AAV) for 1-5 participants. (Unclear how many exactly will get the therapy in the first run through.)

But the trial, or the administration of the telomerase gene is set to commence soon as far as I`ve understood. It`s a small cohort of course, but remember that we`re talking about Alzheimer patients in the age range of 75 to late 80`s, that are willing to pay >a million dollars to have a chance at age (and Alzheimer`s disease) reversal. It`s also a relatively risky trial with many unknowns and potentially dangerous side effects. Little is known about the long term consequences of these therapies, although Liz Parrish, as I mentioned in the OP, who received the therapy 2 years ago seems to be doing great, and the therapy seems to be working as expected. It will be very exciting to see the results of the first tests if/when they eventually go through with it. Probably quite soon. Will keep you posted when I hear of any new developments.

[MrLemon]

(06-06-2018 07:24 PM)Johnnyvee Wrote:  

Short update:

I`ve talked to some credible people in the life-extension community, and it seems that after some delay they have started to produce the large quantities needed of the gene therapy vector (AAV) for 1-5 participants. (Unclear how many exactly will get the therapy in the first run through.)

But the trial, or the administration of the telomerase gene is set to commence soon as far as I`ve understood. It`s a small cohort of course, but remember that we`re talking about Alzheimer patients in the age range of 75 to late 80`s, that are willing to pay >a million dollars to have a chance at age (and Alzheimer`s disease) reversal. It`s also a relatively risky trial with many unknowns and potentially dangerous side effects. Little is known about the long term consequences of these therapies, although Liz Parrish, as I mentioned in the OP, who received the therapy 2 years ago seems to be doing great, and the therapy seems to be working as expected. It will be very exciting to see the results of the first tests if/when they eventually go through with it. Probably quite soon. Will keep you posted when I hear of any new developments.

I don't know much but would like to contribute this.

One of the issues as I understand it, with aging, is the body's inability to provide enough "resources" to have a healthy immune system. In other words the body doesn't have enough manufacturing areas for white blood cells and other immune system elements. Same problem with growth items...new cell creation, glucose, raw materials.

Without the immune system strength, cancers proliferate. To prevent cancer, the body reduces growth factors in the bloodstream, which makes the body weaker and frailer, although it does reduce the death rate, it does so by making life suck.

It isn't just telomeres -- the body literally has fatty deposits in the bone marrow which slowly limit red blood cell creation for example.

This is why some people are exploring blood sharing. Using a young animal, let's say a young cloned mouse, to share blood with an older animal, an old mouse. The young mouse's stronger immune system and growth factors help maintain the old mouse's muscles and proteins and neurons longer.

This isn't really life extension...it's life enhancement. Inevitably the old animal will eventually just collapse because it can no longer be propped up by the younger animal's body. But it can stay stronger and healthier for a longer time. Keep the body of a 50 year old till you're 110 for example.

This is my paraphrasing of the issue, and I'm not that deep into it.

Any thoughts?

[Johnnyvee]

(06-20-2018 02:52 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  

(06-06-2018 07:24 PM)Johnnyvee Wrote:  

Short update:

I`ve talked to some credible people in the life-extension community, and it seems that after some delay they have started to produce the large quantities needed of the gene therapy vector (AAV) for 1-5 participants. (Unclear how many exactly will get the therapy in the first run through.)

But the trial, or the administration of the telomerase gene is set to commence soon as far as I`ve understood. It`s a small cohort of course, but remember that we`re talking about Alzheimer patients in the age range of 75 to late 80`s, that are willing to pay >a million dollars to have a chance at age (and Alzheimer`s disease) reversal. It`s also a relatively risky trial with many unknowns and potentially dangerous side effects. Little is known about the long term consequences of these therapies, although Liz Parrish, as I mentioned in the OP, who received the therapy 2 years ago seems to be doing great, and the therapy seems to be working as expected. It will be very exciting to see the results of the first tests if/when they eventually go through with it. Probably quite soon. Will keep you posted when I hear of any new developments.

I don't know much but would like to contribute this.

One of the issues as I understand it, with aging, is the body's inability to provide enough "resources" to have a healthy immune system. In other words the body doesn't have enough manufacturing areas for white blood cells and other immune system elements. Same problem with growth items...new cell creation, glucose, raw materials.

Without the immune system strength, cancers proliferate. To prevent cancer, the body reduces growth factors in the bloodstream, which makes the body weaker and frailer, although it does reduce the death rate, it does so by making life suck.

It isn't just telomeres -- the body literally has fatty deposits in the bone marrow which slowly limit red blood cell creation for example.

This is why some people are exploring blood sharing. Using a young animal, let's say a young cloned mouse, to share blood with an older animal, an old mouse. The young mouse's stronger immune system and growth factors help maintain the old mouse's muscles and proteins and neurons longer.

This isn't really life extension...it's life enhancement. Inevitably the old animal will eventually just collapse because it can no longer be propped up by the younger animal's body. But it can stay stronger and healthier for a longer time. Keep the body of a 50 year old till you're 110 for example.

This is my paraphrasing of the issue, and I'm not that deep into it.

Any thoughts?

Some good points, but immune cells become apoptotic/senescent/cancerous (leukemia) precisely because they have short telomeres. Also the immune function is reduced as you mentioned as a consequence of the ageing leukocytes, predisposing you for basically all disease. (This is also the cause of AIDS btw, via the HIV virus (and/or other elements) ageing the immune system. AIDS is simply short white blood cell telomeres.)

The reason old mice are rejuvenated from interchanging blood with young mice is via the old mice receiving cells (mostly immune cells) with longer telomeres from the younger mice. The young mice won`t get older since they have stem cell reserves with long telomeres again. Stem cells don`t have much telomerase transcription, only embryonic stem cells do, so they will deplete in time also.

[RichieP]

Fasting for 3 days resets entire immune system:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2016...tem-study/

[Fortis]

I do wonder, what if the human mind has a lifespan. I know the mind is not an organ or anything or that nature, but I do wonder what might happen to a person who just lives too long despite all the hormones and drugs keeping them alive? Insanity?

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(06-21-2018 07:24 AM)Fortis Wrote:  

I do wonder, what if the human mind has a lifespan. I know the mind is not an organ or anything or that nature, but I do wonder what might happen to a person who just lives too long despite all the hormones and drugs keeping them alive? Insanity?

The immortals I got to know were all quite sane.

[sterling_archer]

^How old were they?

[Johnnyvee]

(06-21-2018 05:10 AM)RichieP Wrote:  

Fasting for 3 days resets entire immune system:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2016...tem-study/

Yes this is interesting, although I wouldn`t use the word reset, rather rejuvenate/boost the immune system. I`m quite certain this is due to upregulation of the DAF-16/FOXO repair and maintenance regulating gene via the mTor pathway, combined with less inflammation to be dealt with by the immune system. Yet an indication that any type of fasting program and/or a higher fat diet (Not seed oils) is gonna be very beneficial to health.

As I`ve talked about before, when you eat less protein/amino acids and/or sugars and starches, the nutrient sensor mTor is "decreased," this in turn promotes cellular repair and maintenance mechanisms via the gene pathway mentioned. This is pretty well understood by now and is why any type of fasting works. I hasten to add that you of course have to eat protein, you don`t have to eat anything that elevates blood sugar however, there`s no positives there really. So plenty of vegetables and fruits, but either high fat or high fiber. As little starch and fructose as possible. As to what fasting program is best I`m really not sure, personally I try to do some 16/8 thing. (Only eating in a 8 hour window during a 24 hour period.)

[Hypno]

Genetic researchers reverse wrinkles, gray hair and balding in mice, called 'unprecedented'

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201...-hair-and/

[ADEBISIGARANA]

Why u wanna be young again. Leave alone forever. I'm good with dying @90. Fuck living g forever

[Johnnyvee]

(07-22-2018 05:01 PM)ADEBISIGARANA Wrote:  

Why u wanna be young again. Leave alone forever. I'm good with dying @90. Fuck living g forever

You`re romanticizing ageing I think!
Also it`s about staying young long enough to do the things you want to do in life. Living forever is a completely different concept. We`re talking about biological mortality here, not death as a whole. (accidents etc.) How long someone want`s to live will totally depend on the individual! Some are late bloomers also, and might feel like they have a wasted youth.

Living a long time and being alone are two separate issues. There will be many people doing this if it works, and you can make new acquaintances also. Dying at 90 might be fine for some, but you might have 30 years of poor health prior to that eventual death. So there are many issues here, and things people have not thought through properly in my opinion.