[Stonk]

When I got into game newly (like most guys), I was studying Weidmann and Roosh religiously and trying to kill my betatude. I found out too much assholery and machoness does little to get girls. I learnt to ease my game a bit.

- its okay to compliment her as long as it's not often.
- its okay to be a lil romantic as long as you don't come off as corny and creepy.
- its okay to buy her stuff as long as its novel and not beta.

I've done pure assholery and I didn't get pussy. I soon realized that one needs to ease up their game to get girls. While its okay to be alpha, having a lil beta side could be the missing link between you and pussy.

[torridon747]

There's a few different elements to the equation.

Are you attractive?
This over-rides most things.

Are you a bitter asshole, a playful asshole, a ZFG asshole?

These things matter. Bitter, only bitter people like you. Playful, only those without huge egos will be receptive. ZFG, what do you care anyway?

Do you buy a girl lunch because you were getting lunch anyway and wanted someone to come along for the ride, or are you buying lunch to impress her and gain capital that way?

Along for the ride, test them and keep moving. Gaining social capital with money, you're a trick.

They all have their place. There are very few hard and fast rules in game. Game is fluid. Be like water.

[Montrose]

I have a bunch of roses delivered to each girl after the first sex (assuming I know their address). I think it’s macho. For many girls it’s the first time someone ever bought them flowers (but far from the first time someone fucked them).

More generally, as an old school European guy, I have always found the ‘orthodox’ pick up methods to be too much on the asshole side. My impression is that it is mostly successful with girls who are neurotic and not confident (i.e not the girls you want for LTR)

Personally I display old fashioned misoginy, I argue, I criticize, I say ‘woman make me some tea’, but always politely and respectfully. I compliment if compliment is deserved (in a condescending way). I dont buy gifts but I occasionally buy flowers.

So yes I tend to agree with OP. Standard pick up methods are too biased toward asshole.

[Kieran]

I think the reason a lot of the game and manosphere teachings lean so heavily towards all girls are sluts, you have to be an asshole, etc., is that most guys are so soft and romantic that it really needs to be hammered home to even shift them somewhere into the middle of the road. Then once they're out there getting some success, they can learn for themselves that things are a little more nuanced.

[blck]

(01-27-2018 06:16 AM)Montrose Wrote:  

I have a bunch of roses delivered to each girl after the first sex (assuming I know their address). I think it’s macho.

Flower delivered is Macho ?! Try this: Fuck her, get dressed when you finish and then... leave 10e on the nightstand with the word "Thank you" and get out.

[Montrose]

Ha. Ribbentrop and Beria did flowers. Montrose can do it. (Unfortunately one was hanged and the other shot for their trouble)
And as I said, macho is not necessarily an impertinent cad. But I know I’m the minority opinion on that.

[PapayaTapper]

When it comes to game it's important to define "asshole" and attraction ...from girls' point of view

An asshole is NOT a guy who's physically, verbally, or emotionally abusive. (Unless she's severely damaged but that's a whole other level of game)

In terms of modern attraction an "asshole" is a guy who:

1.Flirts with / is attractive to other girls

2.Is confident

3. Doesn't take a girl seriously / doesnt give a fuck

These things make a guy "better" than a girl on a subconcious level.

"Better" is uncontrollably attractive to girls

Under those terms

"He's such an asshole" = "Im so disgusted / attracted and I dont know why"

[Noir]

You gotta just be congruent, if you're being an 'asshole' but it doesn't suit you (i.e. you're a soft guy) then you will repel women.

PT covered it above but essentially being aloof and not caring is the intro to assholery.

People are attracted to those who are less invested in others and this is what gave birth to the whole 'push/pull' theory. Asshole = push and rewarding behaviour = pull.

Being an asshole is a mastery in itself because you have to be humourous and able to defuse the tension that your assholery can create.

You are basically toying with their emotions, spiking them and on the spikes, you comfort.

If you pull more than you push then when you push/be asshole it looks spiteful and revengeful.

The consequence of doing it wrong is you coming off as bitter and too invested in to your interactions.

A more advanced way of doing this is through vocal tonality (breaking rapport) and having a commanding presence which essentially elevates your value in her eyes and makes her chase.

This is super meta though so just focus on the basics of being outcome independent.

She has to believe that it's your nature and you're aloof towards all women and unphased. If you're being an asshole as a reactive measure, it's weak and unattractive.

Independent to female behaviour (attractive and having purpose) vs dependent on woman's behaviour (bitter).

It's absolutely fine to do any of those scenarios assuming it's what you regularly do, you're not pinging off them (letting them dictate your emotional state) and know how to avoid getting played.

Save the flowers and whatever for 3-6 months into being exclusive.

Eugenics asked if you're attractive and while this is a controversial topic on this forum, you have way more leeway to be an asshole if you're attractive because girls will give you more 'lives' to strike out.

If you're attractive, don't be an asshole, just be aloof and let them fill the gaps themselves.

[Dalaran1991]

As always stick with the classics. Roissy said it best:

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2012/11/...f-asshole/

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2014/10/...-dont-dig/

Unfortunately when guys learn to be assholes most of the time they are the caring asshole.

@Noir: gold words, I would add one caveat: sometimes "congruence" doesn't feel right at first due to beta brainwashing. Just like if you've been wearing boxy suits your whole life, your tailored slim suit Italian cut would feel restrictive on you.

I've internalized asshole game so much now that these last couple of days, after the girls leave, freshly fucked, I think to myself "man I was really such an asshole".

Yet they keep coming back for more.

I try not to think about it.