[the1element]

My first reaction was what the fuck?

My game is about as chill as you can be,

"Hey, hows your night?"

That's my opener.

If girls bite, we talk. If not I dip and tell them to enjoy their night.

Simple as that.

So anyway, I like this bar it has a good vibe and the people are for the most part cool (albiet hipsters) I know some of the staff but this one cat, seems to have it out for me.

I went there tonight after seeing a garbage burlesque show and I saw two girls who seemed cool. I went up, said "hows your night" and we started talking. Her one friend started puking (she was underage lollll) and I grabbed the others number, clearly she was into me.

There was another girl there, with her boyfriend, the boyfriend went to take a piss and I grabbed a chair and purposely sat as far away from the girl as possible and we started talking about the girl that just threw up all over the place. She was laughing, the conversation had a good vibe and I had 0 intentions of picking her up I was just being social.

Mid-way through conversation, the bartender tells me to see him so I do. The boyfriend comes back and looks like he wants to fight me. I sort of wish he did, he was easily 200lbs and I'm 150 on a good day. Go ahead..fight me, prove to your girlfriend that you are intimidated by a 150lb guy. Anyways..

This was what the bartender said to me.

"Hey man, what's your deal you talk to every girl here don't you see she has a boyfriend, I've had girls complain about you and if it keeps up you will have to leave."

Straight up, this shocked me.

I told him, look dude I like girls. I'm not gonna bullshit you. Then I asked him what the girls looked like that "complained"

Told me he doesn't remember....yea right.

Then he said my approach was "aggressive"

Then he told me this bar doesn't deal with problems, we remove them.

Alright...

I'm just sort of confused.

A) I don't talk to every bloody girl at the bar. If a group or girl seems cool, I'll talk to them. Simple as that.

B) My opener is "hows your night?". How is that aggressive? I'd understand if I said, "I want to fuck you" or something else, but how the fuck is "hows your night?" aggressive.

This just seems silly. I can look from his perspective and see where he's coming from..but is talking to a girl really a big deal? It seems petty honestly.

Did girls really go up to the bartender and say "this guy is making me uncomfortable?" , I'll admit my game isn't amazing but I can't think of any instance where I felt the girl was uncomfortable. I usually dip before shit gets to that point.

The funny thing is, I thought this bartender was a cool cat I thought he knew the game and so on. Now I have my doubts. I wonder if he's just jealous and a pussy white knight.

He's been there for a very long time and I'm in a smallish town. Word will travel fast, if I fuck things up here then there goes my ability to lock down the bars which is why I didn't call him out tonight. Plus, it's a very popular bar with the girls I'm into. If I get banned, it's gonna fuck things up.

I'm pretty new to night game, I'm sure this isn't an uncommon thing so I want other cats to weigh in.

What's the move? Stop talking to girls at this bar? What if word has travelled? How do I avoid this in other bars? Maybe I need to use nightlife for dates, instead of meeting girls.

Part of me wishes I had 3 models at my disposal right now to bring to this bar and give this guy a big fuck you in the best way possible, but unfortunately I don't.

Anyways, whats your opinions?

[kaotic]

At this point it doesn't matter if the girls complained about your or this bouncer has it out for you.

HE'S THE BOUNCER - meaning shit can go south for you for you real quick in his house.

Going to the owner or manager ain't gonna help either, they'll side with him.


Your best option is to avoid that place for awhile and explore new venues.


Secondly, maybe tone down how many girls you approach in a venue.


Finally, here's a pro tip for a place I frequent - I make friends with the bartenders and bouncers FIRST before I start hitting on every girl in sight.

If the venue is a pussy paradise, tip the bartenders/waiters good, introduce yourself to the bouncer, shoot the shit with him about his job (on a dead or slow night), stories he may have, and tips about the venue you're at.

[Beyond Borders]

White knighting, jealous bartenders have long been a running theme in the forum. I've run into it myself.

That said one thing doesn't make sense in your story.

Why did the boyfriend come back all mad? How did he even know you'd been chatting? Seems like you're leaving something out here, and a little coincidental that someone's boyfriend returned all pissed off about a harmless moment of banter at the exact time the bartender felt your behavior needed calling out, no?

You sure you're being honest with yourself?

After a little self reflection I'd give the place a wide berth for a little while either way. Getting bad vibes from the staff and having them constantly look over your shoulder isn't going to do anything good for your game.

[Razor Beast]

Bartender is probably trying to cockblock you. Run bartender anti-cockblock game. There were a number of threads about this in the search when I checked. It could be a bar where bartenders and guys/girls all know each other since it's a small town. You won't get that much in a big city. The small town might be part of your problem. Maybe try some other bars to see if you get different results.

[the1element]

(01-26-2018 01:34 AM)kaotic Wrote:  

At this point it doesn't matter if the girls complained about your or this bouncer has it out for you.

HE'S THE BOUNCER - meaning shit can go south for you for you real quick in his house.

Going to the owner or manager ain't gonna help either, they'll side with him.


Your best option is to avoid that place for awhile and explore new venues.


Secondly, maybe tone down how many girls you approach in a venue.


Finally, here's a pro tip for a place I frequent - I make friends with the bartenders and bouncers FIRST before I start hitting on every girl in sight.

If the venue is a pussy paradise, tip the bartenders/waiters good, introduce yourself to the bouncer, shoot the shit with him about his job (on a dead or slow night), stories he may have, and tips about the venue you're at.

Not bouncer, bartender.

I'm gonna avoid that spot.

I approach maybe one "set" when I'm there. That's it.

I wouldn't say I'm friends with the staff, I know a few and others I know nothing about. Tried to talk to the bouncer, he's a weird dude.

I tip well, and I talk to the staff.

(01-26-2018 01:37 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

White knighting, jealous bartenders have long been a running theme in the forum. I've run into it myself.

That said one thing doesn't make sense in your story.

Why did the boyfriend come back all mad? How did he even know you'd been chatting? Seems like you're leaving something out here, and a little coincidental that someone's boyfriend returned all pissed off about a harmless moment of banter at the exact time the bartender felt your behaviour needed calling out, no?

You sure you're being honest with yourself?

After a little self reflection I'd give the place a wide berth for a little while either way. Getting bad vibes from the staff and having them constantly look over your shoulder isn't going to do anything good for your game.

Ahh, this is probably an error with my writing.

I'll explain more clearly. (You bring up a decent point, I'm not sure how he knew...)

The guy went to take a piss, and this was literally when one of the two girls I was talking to started puking. They ended up leaving and I talked to the girl with the boyfriend who saw the puking girl, I just looked at her and said "Thursdays can get ya" then I sat down at the table, purposely grabbing the chair furthest away and putting as much space as possible.

We were talking (the boyfriend still gone) and this was when the bartender told me to talk to him and he told me what I said in the post.

Then the boyfriend came back and I swear he looked like he wanted to fight me. There's no coincidence there.

I hung around for a bit, finished my beer and thought about what happened. As I was doing this the girl and boyfriend were on there way out, and before leaving the boyfriend went behind the bar and did like the "buddy" hug that guys do when they know each other, obviously, the boyfriend and bartender were friends.

Maybe this is why the boyfriend knew, the bartender could have texted him if they're friends? I don't know.

Maybe he was just watching out for one of his boys, again I don't know but I could swear the boyfriend wasn't happy with me.

I'm completely open to the idea that I fucked up here. I personally thought it was petty but maybe I'm missing something, I CAN see how it was poor judgement to talk to the girl whose boyfriend went to the washroom.

Perhaps I'm missing out something.

The girlfriend did ask me how I knew the girls I was just talking to, I told her from school because I didn't want to deal with any shit. She asked if I was with them earlier in the night or not and I told them I just saw them now, I was out by myself prior.

Maybe I need to stop rolling solo here, I don't know. This seems petty but whatever, I'm gonna avoid the venue for now.

[Roardog]

As the others have said, give this place a miss for a while and let the heat die down before you get yourself permanently banned. You will never win against management.

My guess is you either got the number of a girl who the bar tender liked and he's jealous or you hit on a girl who over reacted and complained. To that kind of bar tender it would only require one girl to complain to get that response.

Maybe he sees his bar as a place to hang out with friends and not somewhere to hit on girls.
I know a couple of places like that in Aus where they literally have signs saying stick to your own groups.

[Fortis]

Kaotic is correct. You wanna scope out management in a spot before you go full-on approaching. I know, it sounds fucking stupid, but a lot of managers get pissy if they see you enjoying yourself. Once you scope em out and get their names and banter with them a bit, they tend to lighten up. This is especially true if you buy a few drinks and tip generously.

In NJ, a bartender might not say shit to your face, but he might clown you a bit if you totally ignore him and don't buy drinks and give him an opportunity to get up in your shit.

[Suits]

I guess you must have been hitting on a girl that he likes but can't get with.

[Days of Broken Arrows]

Let the local cops know there is underage drinking in the bar. Mention the puking incident and throw in the words "alcohol poisoning" and "drunk driving."

If this doesn't work, let the local paper know and see if they'll set up a sting of some sort.

Then write an anonymous letter to the bar owner, claiming you're a woman and the bartender "acted inappropriately." This won't be a lie per se, because odds are he did act that way around some woman at some point. Then say if the problem isn't corrected you're going to the local paper about the underage girls you saw drinking.

[the1element]

(01-26-2018 01:53 AM)Roardog Wrote:  

As the others have said, give this place a miss for a while and let the heat die down before you get yourself permanently banned. You will never win against management.

My guess is you either got the number of a girl who the bar tender liked and he's jealous or you hit on a girl who over reacted and complained. To that kind of bar tender it would only require one girl to complain to get that response.

Maybe he sees his bar as a place to hang out with friends and not somewhere to hit on girls.
I know a couple of places like that in Aus where they literally signs saying stick to your own groups.

The last part makes a lot of sense. This is definitely a bar to hang out with friends, instead of hitting on girls.

And thats fucked in Aus, fuck that. Faggots.

(01-26-2018 01:54 AM)Fortis Wrote:  

Kaotic is correct. You wanna scope out management in a spot before you go full-on approaching. I know, it sounds fucking stupid, but a lot of managers get pissy if they see you enjoying yourself. Once you scope em out and get their names and banter with them a bit, they tend to lighten up. This is especially true if you buy a few drinks and tip generously.

In NJ, a bartender might not say shit to your face, but he might clown you a bit if you totally ignore him and don't buy drinks and give him an opportunity to get up in your shit.

This is a good idea, I tip generously but never have bought drinks for them.

(01-26-2018 01:57 AM)Suits Wrote:  

I guess you must have been hitting on a girl that he likes but can't get with.

Possibly.. I thought the bartender slayed to be honest but after tonight maybe not.

(01-26-2018 02:00 AM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

Let the local cops know there is underage drinking in the bar. Mention the puking incident and throw in the words "alcohol poisoning" and "drunk driving."

If this doesn't work, let the local paper know and see if they'll set up a sting of some sort.

Then write an anonymous letter to the bar owner, claiming you're a woman and the bartender "acted inappropriately." This won't be a lie per se, because odds are he did act that way around some woman at some point. Then say if the problem isn't corrected you're going to the local paper about the underage girls you saw drinking.

This is devious. I feel like the grinch here.

If the bartender is jealous, then my game must be improving (which is a good thing, I've been working hard at it.)

I should add..it's a craft brewery.

[Suits]

(01-26-2018 02:05 AM)the1element Wrote:  

(01-26-2018 01:57 AM)Suits Wrote:  

I guess you must have been hitting on a girl that he likes but can't get with.

Possibly.. I thought the bartender slayed to be honest but after tonight maybe not.

Bartenders usually have above average opportunity with women.

(01-26-2018 02:05 AM)the1element Wrote:  

I should add..it's a craft brewery.

Then again...

[the1element]

(01-26-2018 02:09 AM)Suits Wrote:  

(01-26-2018 02:05 AM)the1element Wrote:  

(01-26-2018 01:57 AM)Suits Wrote:  

I guess you must have been hitting on a girl that he likes but can't get with.

Possibly.. I thought the bartender slayed to be honest but after tonight maybe not.

Bartenders usually have above average opportunity with women.

(01-26-2018 02:05 AM)the1element Wrote:  

I should add..it's a craft brewery.

Then again...

Yea man, I don't know. Has this ever happened to you?

[Suits]

(01-26-2018 02:12 AM)the1element Wrote:  

(01-26-2018 02:09 AM)Suits Wrote:  

(01-26-2018 02:05 AM)the1element Wrote:  

(01-26-2018 01:57 AM)Suits Wrote:  

I guess you must have been hitting on a girl that he likes but can't get with.

Possibly.. I thought the bartender slayed to be honest but after tonight maybe not.

Bartenders usually have above average opportunity with women.

(01-26-2018 02:05 AM)the1element Wrote:  

I should add..it's a craft brewery.

Then again...

Yea man, I don't know. Has this ever happened to you?

No. I do not, as a rule, intentionally game in venues. No shame for those who do this, but I don't enjoy approaching women who can't end and interaction at will by simply walking away at will. I much prefer day-gaming outdoors.

I have had very good success bringing different girls to the same venue repeatedly for dates. I haven't gone out of my way to make friends with the bartenders, but I'm always polite, so they've done a good job at treating me well and never mentioning the other women. This is in China, where you sometimes have a nationalistic prick get pissed off that you're doing better with his country's women than he is and try to cockblock you, but I've rarely had to deal with that at all.

[the1element]

(01-26-2018 02:28 AM)Suits Wrote:  

(01-26-2018 02:12 AM)the1element Wrote:  

(01-26-2018 02:09 AM)Suits Wrote:  

(01-26-2018 02:05 AM)the1element Wrote:  

(01-26-2018 01:57 AM)Suits Wrote:  

I guess you must have been hitting on a girl that he likes but can't get with.

Possibly.. I thought the bartender slayed to be honest but after tonight maybe not.

Bartenders usually have above average opportunity with women.

(01-26-2018 02:05 AM)the1element Wrote:  

I should add..it's a craft brewery.

Then again...

Yea man, I don't know. Has this ever happened to you?

No. I do not, as a rule, intentionally game in venues. No shame for those who do this, but I don't enjoy approaching women who can't end and interaction at will by simply walking away at will. I much prefer day-gaming outdoors.

I have had very good success bringing different girls to the same venue repeatedly for dates. I haven't gone out of my way to make friends with the bartenders, but I'm always polite, so they've done a good job at treating me well and never mentioning the other women. This is in China, where you sometimes have a nationalistic prick get pissed off that you're doing better with his country's women than he is and try to cockblock you, but I've rarely had to deal with that at all.

Good insight,

I wonder if this is a sign I need to switch my game up to work with the conditions of my town.

My game is similar to Goldmunds (I don't bring the camera to the bar though.) and he's in NYC which is very different than where I am from.

[Roardog]

(01-26-2018 01:51 AM)the1element Wrote:  

I hung around for a bit, finished my beer and thought about what happened. As I was doing this the girl and boyfriend were on there way out, and before leaving the boyfriend went behind the bar and did like the "buddy" hug that guys do when they know each other, obviously, the boyfriend and bartender were friends.

Maybe this is why the boyfriend knew, the bartender could have texted him if they're friends? I don't know.

Maybe he was just watching out for one of his boys, again I don't know but I could swear the boyfriend wasn't happy with me.

I'm completely open to the idea that I fucked up here. I personally thought it was petty but maybe I'm missing something, I CAN see how it was poor judgement to talk to the girl whose boyfriend went to the washroom.

The bit in bold is what happened, it's crystal clear. You looked like you were hitting on the GF of the bar tenders friend. He's helped his bro out and warned you off.

As it's a hipster craft beer place then it probably like I said that they don't like solo guys coming in and hitting on girls. It's probably not the vibe they are looking for.
I would find a different hunting ground.

[the1element]

(01-26-2018 02:37 AM)Roardog Wrote:  

(01-26-2018 01:51 AM)the1element Wrote:  

I hung around for a bit, finished my beer and thought about what happened. As I was doing this the girl and boyfriend were on there way out, and before leaving the boyfriend went behind the bar and did like the "buddy" hug that guys do when they know each other, obviously, the boyfriend and bartender were friends.

Maybe this is why the boyfriend knew, the bartender could have texted him if they're friends? I don't know.

Maybe he was just watching out for one of his boys, again I don't know but I could swear the boyfriend wasn't happy with me.

I'm completely open to the idea that I fucked up here. I personally thought it was petty but maybe I'm missing something, I CAN see how it was poor judgement to talk to the girl whose boyfriend went to the washroom.

The bit in bold is what happened, it's crystal clear. You looked like you were hitting on the GF of the bar tenders friend. He's helped his bro out and warned you off.

As it's a hipster craft beer place then it probably like I said that they don't like solo guys coming in and hitting on girls. It's probably not the vibe they are looking for.
I would find a different hunting ground.

110%. I read your post and that's it.

Now I'm hesitant to go out and do night game, all of the places around here are like this for the most part.

[TIOT12]

OP, how did you tip this bartender? As a general rule, I find that these issues are mitigated often if you tip well.

It seems obvious, something ticked him off and he took it out on you. It is probably that you talked to his friend's girl based on your facts given but there is no way to know. You are upset because you were accused of something you know you didn't do but you can't win against the bartender. It would be a waste of time in my opinion to go to management unless you already know them. Like others have said, the best thing to do is avoid the bar for a while and then when you go back do the whole tip well and make friends with the bartender routine. Since this is a small town, one thing you could also do when you do go back is take a date with you to the bar and just do a date night with no gaming and maybe even do that a couple more times. You can still chat with the bartenders but this will give all of them the chance to see you in a different light.

Don't sweat this incident. Just chalk it up to the game. I tip well now because of one bad experience with a bartender who was upset about the size of my tip and proceeded to be a cockblock the rest of the night. You live and learn.

[the1element]

(01-26-2018 02:59 AM)TIOT12 Wrote:  

OP, how did you tip this bartender? As a general rule, I find that these issues are mitigated often if you tip well.

It seems obvious, something ticked him off and he took it out on you. It is probably that you talked to his friend's girl based on your facts given but there is no way to know. You are upset because you were accused of something you know you didn't do but you can't win against the bartender. It would be a waste of time in my opinion to go to management unless you already know them. Like others have said, the best thing to do is avoid the bar for a while and then when you go back do the whole tip well and make friends with the bartender routine. Since this is a small town, one thing you could also do when you do go back is take a date with you to the bar and just do a date night with no gaming and maybe even do that a couple more times. You can still chat with the bartenders but this will give all of them the chance to see you in a different light.

Don't sweat this incident. Just chalk it up to the game. I tip well now because of one bad experience with a bartender who was upset about the size of my tip and proceeded to be a cockblock the rest of the night. You live and learn.

Yea, I'm playing it cool. I don't want beef, or anything or go to management. That would be petty imo.

This bartender has been there well over 10 years.

I chalk it up to the game.

I haven't been served by him many times, the times I have a dollar a drink.

[Swell]

On the outside, always be professional with the staff.

On the inside, think Fuck You servant.

Game On!

[tr1cky]

The problem with learning game, or social calibration in general, is you need to cross the line to learn where the line is.

When you cross the line you offend people and it can cause situations like this. When you're learning game it really is best to do so alone (or with one wing) and in an area away from where you live.

If you live in Manhattan that might mean walking to a different neighborhood. If you live in Zainsville idaho it might mean driving 3 hours to a big city Friday night and sleeping in your car til Sunday.

[Vladimir Poontang]

I read the first 4 sentences. Then I looked at the flag next to his name. Then it made sense.

[Dulceácido]

Canada! Very well known worldwide for being slightly north of The United States!

[the1element]

(01-26-2018 04:48 PM)Dulceácido Wrote:  

Canada! Very well known worldwide for being slightly north of The United States!

Haha, also known for being Cucks.

Anyways,

I gave some more thought about what happened and I think I've pieced it together and have developed a plan to prevent further issues.

The particular bar has been around a while, and they have a very regular customer base. This isn't a place where the turn-over is high, the bartenders that have been there have been working there for decades and the customers are very loyal like I said.

I guarantee you most of the girls that come through, probably know the bartenders on some level or another.

Now take me, the new guy who they've never seen before who randomly started going there 4 times out of a week for three weeks straight (I do change venues but I like the music here so I usually end up going sometime in the night) and is meeting and getting numbers from the girls. Taking the bartenders trim, if you want to call it that.

I've had 3 dates there within a week and a half. I've made the mistake of going for the makeout in this type of venue when I should be isolating away from the eyes of the bartender. The bar is one big open space, so the bartenders can see everything go down. There's no doubt these cats have seen me bring multiple girls, go for the kiss and get rejected and also approach girls. I've done most of the approaches on very slow nights, so there's no doubt they've seen me approach and the approaches I have done here, have been okay. No blowouts, one group of two girls thought I was strange and I wanted to fuck with them so when they left the table I told them that I hope the next girls I talk to are more interesting...these girls might have been the ones that complained.

I also on a very slow night approached a girl that definitely had relations with the workers. I was really fucking bored, so my approach was

"I'm bored, you look fun to talk to. I'm Element"

But she was about as fun as a paint drying, the conversation was garbage and I dipped after 5 minutes. The bartender that pulled me aside last night was there during this botched approach so he definitely saw this go down.

I've hit up this spot too often alone, in search of girls. I've had some successes here (numbers) and I've had 3 dates here, obviously I'm giving player vibes. The bartender doesn't like me on his turf talking to his girls, I've made my game too obvious (gone too often) and I've gone during nights where all eyes are on me because of how dead it was. Because I've gone on dead nights, I've definitely talked to girls that are regulars at this place. I've disrupted the "ecosystem" of the venue and last night was the final straw talking to one of the bartenders buddies friends girlfriend even though it was innocent but considering the "reputation" I gained I was put in the worst light as possible. Hence why the bartender pulled me aside.

Being this is a small town, I don't want to burn this venue. I'm going to play it cool, not go for a bit, go with a friend instead of solo and not talk to any girls.

A lot of the bars downtown have this sort of vibe, close-knit. I need to stay away from making these places where I conduct my game. I can still go, but I can't make my motives clear UNLESS the bartenders are cool with me and don't care if I talk to girls.

This is going to require me to change my game, instead of going to super slow bars or these small bars in general I need to hit up the student clubs. I live in a student town for the most part, there are three clubs that all of the students go and I need to move my game to these venues. Because then, I can fly under the radar because of the sheer amount of people in these venues. Plus, girls here aren't going to complain if a guy talks to them. I've banged students and after sex I've had them tell me they actually go out and have goals of kissing at least one guy and so on. Meeting girls is more accepted at these places.

The thing is, these places have a HUGE variety of people. I think a good way to screen out the girls that I will have no connection to is to ask them where they go out, and then tell them about the craft brew spot I like. If the girls say they also love that craft brew spot, then I know I'm going to be able to talk to them because I know the girls the craft spot attracts and they're usually the type of girls I can connect easily with.

Then, I can bounce them from these clubs to the craft brew spot and if they still have a problem with me then fuck them. I'll find a bar that isn't ran by faggots.

The only thing is, limiting my game to these clubs takes out most of the weeknights in regards to meeting girls. The best nights are Wednesday, Saturday and Friday. Sunday is dead same with Monday, Tuesday and Thursday is hit or miss (last night it was dead).

But, I guess can be doing more productive things on these dead nights than meeting girls.

Anyways, what do you cats think?

[Dulceácido]

Yeah, Man. They probably think you're a Level 10 Creeper. Prolly should've locked the bar down and made chit-chat with the staff the first few times you went in, instead of immediately switching from missiles to guns and going in for the kill on the half dozen or so chicks in there (which surely they all talk to each other about the "new guy" that just hit on them). I bet the shit-talk about you was AMAZING. lol. I would've loved to hear that shit.

You've been given lots of solid advice here, though. Just duck out of the place for a bit and then the next time you go in, try to make better acquaintances of the staff members. Otherwise, you're gonna have to abandon ship completely and you've already established it's one of the best venues in a very limited amount of choices.

[The Alpha Virgin]

One thing that has helped me a lot in avoiding hostile situations in night life like that with white knights and idiots is to just give these dudes compliments and smile. Try befriend those guys instead and do some Trump game.

For the future, you can tell a guy like that how much you love the club and how he must have understood, because YOU WOULD NEVER DREAM of treating a woman like that and there's no one that respects women more than you. Just speak nice and calm, if you get upset and start shouting, you fall into the wrong frame. And then say some shit like "by the way dude... no homo but I like your shirt, where have you bought that?" and they almost always chill out and they might even end up buying you a beer.