[stefpdt]

^^I completely agree. But at the end of the day, $50K is a LOT of stress and worry off your back, and allows you to re-invest in another start-up, real estate, or something that gives you more control. Crypto is just a nice stepping stone IMO.

I'm running a business and now a small crypto portfolio, and I'm shocked at the growth that some people are achieving through crypto alone.

[RedPillUK]

I would rather have the 50k from Tron then 500$ and respect from anonymous RVF posters.

[superschalk]

On a day like today where my portfolio decreased by about 25% I am happy that I still have a second business which is doing well enough to pay my monthly bills and gives me the opportunity to enjoy a great location independent lifestyle.

Crypto should be seen as something that could potentially make you wealthy if it works out but could also crash massively within a couple of days or weeks.

Everyone who is thinking about to leaving business ambitions aside and fully focus on crypto i can tell right away that spending two or three hours on crypto a day is more than enough. If the market is crashing it does not matter what coin you have you will lose. If the market moons all coins will moon just one a bit more than another.

So better work on your main business and see crypto as a lucrative side hustle.

[Ray Carlton]

(01-16-2018 11:38 AM)jamaicabound Wrote:  

Honestly to me I have much more respect for someone who creates a side hustle and makes an extra $500 per month from actually doing something than someone who makes $50,000 off Tron

All cool, but does it matter?

I respect the hard worker. I really do.

But at the end of the day, I am happy taking the $50,000 off Tron.

And if I can't, I am the hard worker.

[Blancpain]

If you can create a Shopify/Amazon FBA business which nets you 500$ / a month from scratch, that is way more valuable than earning 50k off a shitcoin.

You can easily sell that business for 20-25k on EmpireFlippers. With that money you can use it to build a couple of more businesses and replicate that success.

You dont need skills to make money from shitcoin, just luck. Because you are not investing based on fundamentals, you are just investing in the hopes that the price will rise.

[SamuelBRoberts]

The bitter no coiners are out in force today.

Hey guys, if instead of buying coins you spend your time fucking supermodels and raiding ancient tombs for gold, you can make a lot more money and have a lot more fun. I won't tell you how to do this, just know that comparatively, you're wasting your time.

[Thehustler]

(01-16-2018 05:02 PM)Blancpain Wrote:  

If you can create a Shopify/Amazon FBA business which nets you 500$ / a month from scratch, that is way more valuable than earning 50k off a shitcoin.

You can easily sell that business for 20-25k on EmpireFlippers. With that money you can use it to build a couple of more businesses and replicate that success.

You dont need skills to make money from shitcoin, just luck. Because you are not investing based on fundamentals, you are just investing in the hopes that the price will rise.

yes sure a shopify store netting $500/month can be sold for $30-25K, sure buddy. Something tells me you haven't made a dime online and are just pulling stats out of your ass.

[Olav]

(01-17-2018 02:38 AM)Thehustler Wrote:  

(01-16-2018 05:02 PM)Blancpain Wrote:  

If you can create a Shopify/Amazon FBA business which nets you 500$ / a month from scratch, that is way more valuable than earning 50k off a shitcoin.

You can easily sell that business for 20-25k on EmpireFlippers. With that money you can use it to build a couple of more businesses and replicate that success.

You dont need skills to make money from shitcoin, just luck. Because you are not investing based on fundamentals, you are just investing in the hopes that the price will rise.

yes sure a shopify store netting $500/month can be sold for $30-25K, sure buddy. Something tells me you haven't made a dime online and are just pulling stats out of your ass.

Not to take sides and I feel this thread is getting sidetracked, but a store netting 500/month means about $6k/year, its not unreasonable to think that can be sold for 4-5x yearly net profit.

[Jaydublin]

^^ Online businesses, especially stores don't typically sell at multiples like that 1.5-3x would be more likely....unless this market has completely changed in the last 12 months anyway.

[jamaicabound]

(01-16-2018 04:50 PM)Ray Carlton Wrote:  

(01-16-2018 11:38 AM)jamaicabound Wrote:  

Honestly to me I have much more respect for someone who creates a side hustle and makes an extra $500 per month from actually doing something than someone who makes $50,000 off Tron

All cool, but does it matter?

I respect the hard worker. I really do.

But at the end of the day, I am happy taking the $50,000 off Tron.

And if I can't, I am the hard worker.

My point is were in a fantastic period where people can make a shitload off crypto but these type of gains are not going to last forever so people better get off their asses and gain some skills, improve themselves, and not rely on the golden Bitcoin goose forever.

I also kind of laugh when people brag about crypto gains as if they had anything to do with making that money. It reminds me of the 2008 recovery. I got cocky with my stock trading abilities, I made a shitload of money but in reality at that time you could throw darts at stocks at the wall and make money

[zoom]

^^ I get your points but a lot of these people are treating crypto as a business, and trading/researching full-time.

[RichieP]

(01-17-2018 02:22 PM)Jaydublin Wrote:  

^^ Online businesses, especially stores don't typically sell at multiples like that 1.5-3x would be more likely....unless this market has completely changed in the last 12 months anyway.

Exactly. And you have to show sustained history of revenue over time - at least a year, usually longer.

Doing that in ecommerce/dropshipping is not easy and takes work. You dont just set it up once and forget it. As soon as you're onto a winner competition pops up, your ads get less effective, CPC goes up, etc etc. You have to fight to sustain your traffic, margins and conversion rates.

"Just build and sell a business" ... as if that's simple. Riding the crypto wave (for now) may be more lucrative for some guys. As with all things I'm sure the big ROI/profits won't be widely accessible for very long though.

[SamuelBRoberts]

(01-17-2018 04:37 PM)jamaicabound Wrote:  

I also kind of laugh when people brag about crypto gains as if they had anything to do with making that money. It reminds me of the 2008 recovery. I got cocky with my stock trading abilities, I made a shitload of money but in reality at that time you could throw darts at stocks at the wall and make money

How much of this have you done?
I've found Crypto trading very difficult, unless you want to simply buy hyped things and hold them.
There's a lot of frustration, disappointment, fear, etc.

[Genghis Khan]

(01-17-2018 04:37 PM)jamaicabound Wrote:  

(01-16-2018 04:50 PM)Ray Carlton Wrote:  

(01-16-2018 11:38 AM)jamaicabound Wrote:  

Honestly to me I have much more respect for someone who creates a side hustle and makes an extra $500 per month from actually doing something than someone who makes $50,000 off Tron

All cool, but does it matter?

I respect the hard worker. I really do.

But at the end of the day, I am happy taking the $50,000 off Tron.

And if I can't, I am the hard worker.

My point is were in a fantastic period where people can make a shitload off crypto but these type of gains are not going to last forever so people better get off their asses and gain some skills, improve themselves, and not rely on the golden Bitcoin goose forever.

I also kind of laugh when people brag about crypto gains as if they had anything to do with making that money. It reminds me of the 2008 recovery. I got cocky with my stock trading abilities, I made a shitload of money but in reality at that time you could throw darts at stocks at the wall and make money

You do realize some coins are planning on switching to Proof-of-Stake, which will allow you to earn dividends, right?

The crypto goose may not lay golden eggs for eternity. But if you can get enough eggs, you can live off the dividends for your entire life.

When I was younger, I thought it was noble/good work ethic/moral/whatever to work really hard. But then I got really fucking bored and tired of working 60-80 hour workweeks. The money wasn't worth it, and neither was the sacrifice I made in terms of my health and social life. It's a pretty idealistic approach to life when in contrast you can work 10x less and make 10x more.

I'll take my crypto gains over busting my ass any day. I've worked plenty hard the past decade and I'm done now.

[Vladimir Poontang]

(01-05-2018 08:30 PM)[email protected] Wrote:  

It's certainly killed my motivation to work for a living. I used to take pride in the fact I pull in low 6-figure salary, made me feel accomplished. I grew up poor and destitute my entire life due to bad luck so my ability to earn a good wage was a big deal for me.

Now I just feel like an idiot knowing a $10000-$20000 USD investment in the right crypto early enough can dwarf the money I make from an entire lifetime of wage cuckery. That's not to say I don't love it but yes it is absolutely murders my motivation to work. It makes no sense for me to focus on my job when my crypto gains make my earnings seem like pocket change.

I hereby pledge to help you get rid of that awful feeling. No amount of money that I could relieve you of is too much. No please, don't thank me. I'm just happy to help.

[Matt3B]

I got involved in late October with Bitcoin only, then in mid December starting putting money on altcoins. Made some ridiculous profits on some small investments - around £100-200 per coin. XVG made me like £2000 in the space of 2 weeks. Mental.

I've then increased my day trading pot quite ridiculously in the space of about 2 weeks in mid January, but now we have crashed.

I'm waiting for the next alt run. I'll be at my computer non-stop taking advantage of the situation. I'm aiming on reaching a minimum of 50 BTC by the summer.

I was quite conservative when I first got into crypto, thinking that if I could make 50-100k in 2018, that would be great. I'm shooting for a million by June. Then, £10 million.

So, in a way, crypto has pushed my ambition further. I've been trading forex on a demo account for over 2 years waiting until I was consistent enough to go live.

Now, I'm live with crypto, and that experience is absolutely golden.

I went from searching for 100%+ home runs on a single trade (a la XVG and TRX), to compounding small, daily gains. This is a much better strategy and is yielding me some great results.

By the time I had started this strategy, it was harder to find something that would make 20%+ gains in a day due to the market dropping. Had I done this strategy from the start of December, I believe I would have handed in my notice by now at work.

As such, I am where I am, and am better prepared for the next alt run, which will surely come. Even if it doesn't, I have performed well in a bear market, making 10-20% gains a day and believe this is sustainable.

I've never had much conviction before when I've told people of my ambitions in other areas, but in crypto I say it loud and proud now that I am aiming to be a millionaire this year. And I truly believe it will happen. There are plenty of examples of people doing it.

My 9-5 job is killing me. I have lost all motivation for it as a result of all of this, but it is what it is. It still serves a purpose and I have a solid plan to get out. It feels like a matter of time.

[Jaydublin]

^^^ It is posts like this that assure me this bull run is over for at least a couple of years.

[Faust]

Why?

[Genghis Khan]

(02-02-2018 10:13 PM)Faust Wrote:  

Why?

Because when people show an unwavering level of confidence, it means either they're dead on or (the more frequent case) it's a case of irrational exuberance - similar to how at the height of the tech dotcom bubble everyone thought they'd be millionaires and billionaires.

I don't particularly believe the bull run is over yet. I think we got a few more tops to go. I know plenty of people who get their news from mainstream news and believe Bitcoin/crypto is a bubble. Just two days I was sitting around and heard some nerds talk about why they think blockchain tech will never work.

It's when those people get into crypto I'll get scared. It's when the mainstream finance show "gurus" lose their heads and start talking about what a once-in-a-lifetime crazy opportunity this is, I'll get scared. When it's not just a few people here and there getting a second mortgage on their houses to invest in crypto, but a terrifying amount, I'll get scared.

I can pick up on when people are ahead of the curve and when people are part of the crowd. It's a weird gut feeling I get whenever I've become part of the crowd. The internet suffers from a selection bias because when you gather people who tend to be ahead of the curve together, it starts looking awfully a lot like a crowd, sometimes for good reasons as those groups actually attract the crowd people.

I had a bad gut feeling in May when I saw some friends getting into crypto in May (before it crashed over the summer). And then again in December when I saw people on FB talking about it, now we're seeing the slump. But overall I don't have a bad gut feeling about crypto (though more specifically Ethereum if I'm honest). I'll trust my gut, it's served me well in life.

[Matt3B]

Maybe there's not going to be a bull run for a couple of years, maybe there's on around the corner. I don't know. I prefer to look at things a bit more logically than a finger in the air or "because my gut says so".

There's a lot more interest in crypto these days, and it's quite plain to see that big banks were helping to crash the price of Bitcoin and are now suppressing it in order to get in as cheap as possible themselves. That suggests to me that soon enough, they will be putting a lot of money into the space, which will have a knock on effect with the general public.

Will it happen sometime soon? Who knows? I personally wouldn't be surprised to see a period on consolidation on Bitcoin.

Either way, as I said, I have made gains while bitcoin has been crashing. There are plenty of coins that have been outperforming Bitcoin and offer good opportunities, you just need to be able to do the right research and use the right tools to find them.

There are also plenty of coins making 20%+ swings a day which I have capitalised on.

I'm not some trading noob that believes I can just chuck money at this thing and watch it grow. I have a day trading strategy and have grown a 0.05 BTC trading pot into 0.82 BTC in 2 weeks while the market has been tumbling down.

Current trajectory is good on this basis, and even better if we get a bull run sometime this year. It may not be sustainable after all, but my logical outlook on it gives me confidence.

Each to their own though.

[bojangles]

(02-03-2018 01:48 AM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  

(02-02-2018 10:13 PM)Faust Wrote:  

Why?

Because when people show an unwavering level of confidence, it means either they're dead on or (the more frequent case) it's a case of irrational exuberance - similar to how at the height of the tech dotcom bubble everyone thought they'd be millionaires and billionaires.

I don't particularly believe the bull run is over yet. I think we got a few more tops to go. I know plenty of people who get their news from mainstream news and believe Bitcoin/crypto is a bubble. Just two days I was sitting around and heard some nerds talk about why they think blockchain tech will never work.

It's when those people get into crypto I'll get scared. It's when the mainstream finance show "gurus" lose their heads and start talking about what a once-in-a-lifetime crazy opportunity this is, I'll get scared. When it's not just a few people here and there getting a second mortgage on their houses to invest in crypto, but a terrifying amount, I'll get scared.

I can pick up on when people are ahead of the curve and when people are part of the crowd. It's a weird gut feeling I get whenever I've become part of the crowd. The internet suffers from a selection bias because when you gather people who tend to be ahead of the curve together, it starts looking awfully a lot like a crowd, sometimes for good reasons as those groups actually attract the crowd people.

I had a bad gut feeling in May when I saw some friends getting into crypto in May (before it crashed over the summer). And then again in December when I saw people on FB talking about it, now we're seeing the slump. But overall I don't have a bad gut feeling about crypto (though more specifically Ethereum if I'm honest). I'll trust my gut, it's served me well in life.

I agree with you here, I think the bull run has a while to go, there's so much negative coverage at the moment from the mainstream media yet still bitcoin hasn't collapsed. South Korea, China, JP Morgan, Warren Buffet have all thrown their FUD at bitcoin to try to make it collapse but it's just not happening. For money to be made in cryptocurrency you don't just need faith in Bitcoin. South Korea, China and even JP Morgan have belief in the technology behind Bitcoin, that's enough for now. China especially is embracing blockchain in a big way (although wanting control as they do of all aspects of their economy), Japan has fully embraced cryptocurrency and South Korea is about to prosecute it's Justice Minister for spreading FUD about Bitcoin. There's this whole lets look back at what happened with the dotcom bubble style of thinking too. However the top 3 biggest companies by market capitalisation are all basically dotcom bubble survivors. There was also some small players that got hyped up in that bubble that still survived and ended up being worth many times more (such as ARM holdings).

I'm in the same boat as Matt, I spend hours and hours researching shit about coins just for day trading purposes. From what I've seen within Crypto FB groups, it's full of people who do not do again like this and want to be spoonfed. I would say that's a lack of confidence in themselves but a big belief in cryptocurrency itself. There number of people invested in crypto is still small. Just look at the marketcap (albeit market cap is just a formula).

[Blancpain]

So you turned 500$ into 8000$, and now saying your target is a million?

If you make it to 50-100k you will see that this strategy is not sustainable with smaller coins which have low volumes.

[Matt3B]

Yep, fully aware of the volume issues. I mainly trade the higher volume coins anyway but there are still strategies for spreading your position across a zone where you can get a larger amount of BTC into the market.

[bojangles]

(02-03-2018 05:42 PM)Blancpain Wrote:  

So you turned 500$ into 8000$, and now saying your target is a million?

If you make it to 50-100k you will see that this strategy is not sustainable with smaller coins which have low volumes.

if you're trading alts I believe $ value doesn't matter, not at this point in time and not at any point in time. The aim is to get more BTC. Because if BTC doubles tomorrow than that $8000 you mention is now $16000. On low volume coins it is sustainable if you manipulate the order books, after all who is creating the volume?

[Genghis Khan]

Quote:

There's this whole lets look back at what happened with the dotcom bubble style of thinking too. However the top 3 biggest companies by market capitalisation are all basically dotcom bubble survivors. There was also some small players that got hyped up in that bubble that still survived and ended up being worth many times more (such as ARM holdings).

I wholeheartedly agree with this. Amazon came out big especially through the dotcom boom-bust. I expect the same for the top block chain project(s). A few will win big, though most will probably fail catastrophically. If you can pick the major winners, you're set.