[endobendo]

The fact that most men do not want women who have slept with a lot of other men as long-term partners, is that irrational?

I mean, can slut be just a phase and then once the women is older, shes a decent, faithful women? Or is there a big benefit to finding a women who wasn't the type that slept around?

Does it all boil down to risk of infidelity? or something else, like shes tainted in some way? i find my repulsion to be more like a gag thing. "yuck shes been with that many guys...nasty, ill stick my dick inside but thats it"

[Parlay44]

Definitely tainted after reading this...

Do you carry DNA of former lovers in your body?

[ea303]

Women are illogical. Men make perfect sense, we want to be with sluts for a night, and good girls for a life time. How is that illogical?

[Excelsior]

It is a subconscious, hardwired response designed to combat cuckolding.

Females have guaranteed assurance of their maternity. If the child came out of their womb, it is theirs. It is nearly impossible to skew this relationship and insert some fraud/doubt there. 99.999% of the time, this rule follows, and I mean that number literally.

Men have fewer guarantees. It is not difficult to fool a man into thinking a child that was not conceived by him actually was. This is the power women have by virtue of their biology, and it is the natural disadvantage that men have-their bodies are most central to reproduction, and women have complete control over them. It isn't difficult for her to shield a child's true paternity from a more committed mate if she just plays her cards right.

How is he going to know that she only lets him ejaculate in her when she is at the least fertile point in her cycle (a cycle she doesn't tell you about) while denying you at her more fertile points with the "I'm on my period" excuse, or that she was quietly swallowing birth control pills regularly and lying about it even as you thought you were both trying to have a baby together, or that she has another lover somewhere who she regularly allowed to hit it raw on her most fertile time of the month while denying that to you, or that she had a couple of flings a little while ago with the lead singer from that band you both like and he didn't wear protection? How can you tell?

As a guy, it is tough to be sure. Your average girl can subject your average guy (who, as we all know, is usually a beta and easily struck blind to female nature) to any of these scenarios and he wouldn't be the wiser until it was far too late. That's her power.

Men have a great fear of cuckolding. Do you know how women feel about forcible rape and sexual assault? There is much evidence to believe that this is how men generally feel about being cuckolded, unless they are outliers (fetishists). This is arguably the worst thing a woman can do to a man-not only cheating on him, but lying to him and convincing him to raise another man's seed as his own. Very bad things happen when the cuckoldee in question finds out about this type of fraud, and women who try this type of thing know this. It can drive an otherwise normal guy to serious violence. Rationality takes a back seat to emotion for a guy with revelations like that. At a minimum, it tends to put an end to the family in question.

From a biological perspective, this fear makes sense. Every male seeks to procreate and ensure that his own seed continues into several more generations, and most men have to work pretty hard in order to make sure that happens (historically, only 40% of males who have lived have reproduced before the modern era-not every dog got his day). Legacy, for this reason, is often important to men, and cuckolding is a direct threat to the continuation of any man's legacy.

So, how do men guard against cuckolding? Two options:

1. DNA testing. This is a pretty great tool for men to guarantee that their children are theirs, as it is very nearly 100% accurate.

The problem, however, is that DNA testing is new. We've only really had it for 2-3 decades now. For most of human history, there was only one other option...

2. Slut shaming. Socialize women to be more sexually conservative, suppress their innate sexuality (which is naturally hypergamous), discourage them from sleeping around and label/shame (or severely punish) the ones who still do.

The logic behind this type of thing makes enough sense. Wanna guarantee that your kids are yours as a man? Forcibly remove your woman from the company of other men and/or shame her for entertaining said company on a regular basis. Keep her under your complete control socially and politically and you can monopolize her reproductive capacity and prevent any other guy from getting there, thus eliminating the threat of the cuckold nightmare. You can dress it up with philosophical and/or religious overtones (the religious justifications are most popular), but at the end of the day it is simply the male's way of combating the threat of cuckolding.

Bottomline: Cuckolding is the root cause of male slut shaming and/or aversion to sluts as long term partners. This fear is deeply embedded in the minds of most men and is not going to go away. Women know this, which is also why they tend to underestimate their number of partners when directly questioned about it. It is possibly also why they slut-shame one another more harshly than men ever do. If they make their peers look like whores and keep their own images intact (regardless of whether or not they too are "sluts"), they know they have a better chance at landing a higher quality man, who they know won't be as likely to invest in an openly slutty woman. It is just another weapon in their endless (and, to many men, remarkably fierce) competition with one another.

Men know subconsciously that a good girl's companionship offers a higher likelihood of his own genetic continuance (lower risk of cuckolding). Women, aware of this, all thus try to look like good girls (even if they too are guilty of slutty behavior) and/or rationalize their slutty behavior away ("I've had my fun!").

Everyone is just trying to find their way through a natural biological framework.

[mofo]

Interesting topic

[Parlay44]

(09-14-2011 02:41 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

2. Slut shaming. Socialize women to be more sexually conservative, suppress their innate sexuality (which is naturally hypergamous), discourage them from sleeping around and label/shame (or severely punish) the ones who still do.

Slut shaming won't get you laid.

[Excelsior]

(09-14-2011 02:59 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

(09-14-2011 02:41 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

2. Slut shaming. Socialize women to be more sexually conservative, suppress their innate sexuality (which is naturally hypergamous), discourage them from sleeping around and label/shame (or severely punish) the ones who still do.

Slut shaming won't get you laid.

That is why it isn't often done openly in the modern age by men.

[Caligula]

(09-14-2011 02:44 PM)mofo Wrote:  

I wish there were no sluts.

Now that would make our lives much harder!

I sluts. Without them my notch count would be significantly lower than it is. Just don't invest in them or give them any more of your precious time and commitment than they deserve.

[Excelsior]

(09-14-2011 03:16 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(09-14-2011 02:59 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

(09-14-2011 02:41 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

2. Slut shaming. Socialize women to be more sexually conservative, suppress their innate sexuality (which is naturally hypergamous), discourage them from sleeping around and label/shame (or severely punish) the ones who still do.

Slut shaming won't get you laid.

That is why it isn't often done openly in the modern age by men.

An addendum to this: I forgot to note that the type of shaming behaviors I mentioned above were not as historically damaging to a male's sexual fortunes as they are today.

In a different time(and still to this day in many parts of the world) it was ok to call a woman a whore (read: slut-shame here) for not being a virgin upon marriage, and in some cases you could even legally harm/kill her for doing so.
This type of behavior is usually dressed up with religion as justification, but the real enemy is not satan-it is cuckolding.

Obviously, men do not shame openly today because our sexual dynamics have changed, as have our social ones (we are, for example, much less religious now than our parents/grand-parents were on average here in the West). Women will avoid guys who too openly voice distaste for sluts, and those guys won't get very high notch counts (assuming they want that).

Guys still shame sluts, though. They shame them by pumping and dumping them, withholding commitment from them and generally treating them poorly. They also insult them loudly among one another when she is not present, dragging her reputation through the mud. They might not come out and openly shame promiscuity like our grand-parents once did, but their actions still speak pretty loudly.

I posit that these actions come from the same subconscious source: fear of cuckolding. Women who put them at greater risk for such an event with their more loose behavior occupy a much less sacred place in their minds and are simply not treated as well as "good girls" (or girls who are good at appearing to be "good girls").

[Caligula]

(09-14-2011 03:31 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(09-14-2011 03:16 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(09-14-2011 02:59 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

(09-14-2011 02:41 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

2. Slut shaming. Socialize women to be more sexually conservative, suppress their innate sexuality (which is naturally hypergamous), discourage them from sleeping around and label/shame (or severely punish) the ones who still do.

Slut shaming won't get you laid.

That is why it isn't often done openly in the modern age by men.

An addendum to this: I forgot to note that the type of shaming behaviors I mentioned above were not as historically damaging to a male's sexual fortunes as they are today.

In a different time(and still to this day in many parts of the world) it was ok to call a woman a whore (read: slut-shame here) for not being a virgin upon marriage, and in some cases you could even legally harm/kill her for doing so.
This type of behavior is usually dressed up with religion as justification, but the real enemy is not satan-it is cuckolding.

Obviously, men do not shame openly today because our sexual dynamics have changed, as have our social ones (we are, for example, much less religious now than our parents/grand-parents were on average here in the West). Women will avoid guys who too openly voice distaste for sluts, and those guys won't get very high notch counts (assuming they want that).

Guys still shame sluts, though. They shame them by pumping and dumping them, withholding commitment from them and generally treating them poorly. They also insult them loudly among one another when she is not present, dragging her reputation through the mud. They might not come out and openly shame promiscuity like our grand-parents once did, but their actions still speak pretty loudly.

I posit that these actions come from the same subconscious source: fear of cuckolding. Women who put them at greater risk for such an event with their more loose behavior occupy a much less sacred place in their minds and are simply not treated as well as "good girls" (or girls who are good at appearing to be "good girls").

Excellent insights here Athlone, +1 from me.

Men know to keep their mouth shut since making a girl feel like a slut won't get you laid. Overcoming LMR is all about making sure the girl doesn't feel like a slut, and reassuring her that you or others don't see her as a slut.

Slut shaming probably didn't get you laid in the past either. I doubt Casanova called many women whores.

Courtesans in many cases became famous and were not shamed, because there was no presumption of fidelity and so little fear of cuckolding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courtesan#F..._history).

When there is a strong expectation of mutual commitment sluts are openly shamed. When, as in today's West, commitment is not necessarily expected (but still valued by men) sluts are still shamed but less openly so.

[Parlay44]

I find it hard not to treat them like sluts when inside I feel like they are. Sometimes my humor comes out the wrong way.

What do you do when you know the girl from one of your circles and have a decent idea of how many guys she's been with?

Sometimes it's better to find girls that you know nothing about I guess.

[ersatz]

The whore-madonna complex (don't you dare fuck my sister but I want to fuck your sister) and slut shaming causes a huge amount of BS in gender relations. I could trace a good chunk of brain damaging BS drama from girls from those two things. I've dropped that attitude years ago and it's definitely helped a lot. It's more about trust & love for me, not good girls, bad girls and sluts. I know that every stage of a relationship that cheating can happen and women are not 'sluts', such a fucking BS term. Accept women for who they are.

[OlympusSquared]

Calling a girl a slut is somewhat of a relative thing. Some guys think that a single girl who sleeps with 2-3 guys a year is a slut. To me, that is about the perfect range, given she is fairly attractive. From my experience, a girl who only gives it up to her 'serious' boyfriend is A) unlikely to give it up to you without a lot of effort, and B) possibly somewhat nuts on some level.

That said, I hooked up with a 'polyamorous' hipie chick a little while back who freaked me out a bit. From what I understand she was selcetive in her patterns of parterns. None the less, this type of chick should be avoided because: A) she's nuts or B) the last guy to rail her has unwarranted feelings and might flip if he see's you with the girl (this happened to me).

Lastly, I have a friend of sorts who is basically a female PUA, if that even exists (average and up girls don't really have to have game, just slut instincts). She is a bartender in a popular bar, 27 y.o. and already past her prime from cigs and booze, but she still manages to bang a new guy every two weeks or so. She estimates her notches around 100. She also doesn't generally use condoms. Now this is the type of slut that needs to be controlled, as god knows what STD's she has are spread to other guys, who bang other girls, and spread the warts like grandma's casserole. This type, friends, is the real danger.

[gringochileno]

It's irrational in the same sense that approach anxiety is irrational. There are good evolutionary reasons for both that are no longer relevant. If your caveman ancestors approached everything they wanted to fuck, they'd get exiled from the tribe or get their head smashed in with a rock. If a caveman takes care of a known slut's children, he can't be sure they're really his and he risks having his genes cuckolded out of existence. In the modern age, we don't live in 150-person groups where the alpha male kills anybody who steps to his woman, and we have paternity testing that can tell you if you're raising another man's bastard spawn. It's true that sluts are also bigger cheating risks in general, but that seems to beg the question of why you should care about that if it won't cause you to unknowingly commit resources to raising another man's child.

More to the point, we also have contraception (and antibiotics!), and I have no intention of raising my or anyone else's children anytime soon. So I really don't worry about girls I'm banging sleeping with other guys. Any twinge of jealousy I might get can be overcome by rationally thinking about it and realizing that it doesn't fucking matter. I might think differently when and if I decide to be in a monogamous relationship with a woman because then it becomes an issue of simple reciprocity, but the biological impetus for that kind of arrangement is long-gone.

[silent_scope]

I like sluts. They just play hard to smash with ME though. Or they decide to give up their slutdom when I come a-calling.

[Switchez]

I am not a big fan of slutty women as long term relationships, but that's just my preference.
If a woman decides to be slutty, fine. Why not be open about it though?

It's not nice when they try to deceive people by pretending to be more conservative when it suits them.