[the-dream]

This thread was inspired by seeing a thread on here titled "40% of Americans won't date someone with bad credit" but is something that intrigues me whenever I come across it.

Online, I often read things written or said by Americans such as "if only schools didn't focus so much on things I'll never use in real life and taught more important life skills like how to build credit".

Or read life advice to young people saying building credit is one of the most important things you can do .

Or even Jay-Z's lyrics in a recent song, "You wanna know what's more important than throwin' away money at a strip club? Credit".

To me and I'm guessing most non-Americans, this all seems a bit bizarre.

Is it propaganda from corrupt banks trying to get people caught in debt that has somehow become so deeply ingrained into people's minds that it's being earnestly taught as a great thing? Or propaganda from the government to make people justify spending money they don't have on education and retail so that they have an educated workforce and businesses thrive, at the expense of the average citizen?

Or have I totally missed the point and there is something great about borrowing money and being viewed as a great candidate to be in debt to someone is really something that we should all strive for as one of our priorities?

[GlobalMan]

When someone says they have "great credit" or some slut says she doesn't want a man with "bad credit" they are talking about the Credit Score.

For better or worse, your credit score in America is used as an indication of your financial responsibility, and you could even say your responsibility in general. Not saying that this is a good or fair system, but that's what it's used for. It is one metric - often the main one - that can determines if you'll be able to rent an apartment or not, get certain jobs, open a bank account, it will determine what your car insurance rate is, the list goes on. Beyond the standing of current and past credit cards, loans etc the report will show if you have been evicted from an apartment, if you have unpaid court fines in collections etc- this is all factored into your score. So you can see how building/maintaining a good credit score could be important. Having a shit credit score in America can make your life tough.

Having a great credit score does not require being in debt. In fact if you have high balances relative to your available credit it's going to severely negatively impact your score. Having high credit limits but using only very little of that credit will help put you in the top tier of credit scores.

It's bizarre to non-Americans because not only do you probably not use a financial score for the types of things we do, but you also do not have the credit available in general like we do - nor the benefits - at least not on the same scale. Almost no country does.

For example, with almost all of my credit cards I will:
-Get a refund from the bank if the price of an item I bought goes down within 90 days [Price Protection]
-Get a refund from the bank if the merchant won't accept the return of an item I purchased for any reason (and often the bank does not even request the item to be sent to them) [Purchase Protection]
-Double the manufacturers warranty on most purchases

I could go on. And that is putting aside the rewards programs that don't really exist in other countries like here.

I purchase basically everything on credit cards and simply pay them at the end of the month. No debt. No interest paid.

Plenty of macro arguments can be made about why the system is bad, but given that this is the system we have it is no silly thing to stress the importance of a good credit score. That's just the way it is.

[Paracelsus]

I'll let the Last Psychiatrist do the talking for me on this one. Pay attention, this is not just an excuse to post Reagan-era boobs.

Quote:

This Is Baywatch


Three of the women in this picture don't exist

(An article from 1995. I edited it and added some pictures.)


I.

"Baywatch supports impossible standards that women are pressured to follow."

Everyone knows these women were selected because they are hot, that's the point. They represent ideals of a certain kind. How badly will "regular" women's self-esteem be mangled if they can't be ideals? I think they'll be fine.

Will more women want to dye their hair blonde? Get implants? Probably. Will this end up destroying America? Probably not. Will it set impossible standards for women, turn men impotent when confronted by A cups? No. Why would Baywatch do it if pornography can't?

Pamela Anderson isn't the problem. CJ is the problem. She doesn't exist.

It's conceivable that with the right supplies, you could look like Pamela Anderson. This won't destroy society. What women can't do is look and live like CJ on a lifeguard's income.

But Baywatch convinces people that there is a certain level of ordinary materialism that everyone can have. "This is what it $20,000 a year looks like."

That's what's going to destroy America.

II.

How much does it cost to be CJ? Not Pamela Anderson-- CJ. So, not how much are implants, a nose job and a personal trainer; but how much are CJ's nail appointments, and hair? How much does her (or any of the characters') makeup cost? The car lease? Her CD player and apartment in Malibu? The sofas? CJ and the gals never wear the same clothes in two shows. Never the same shoes. How much does that cost? They don't shop at Sears, right?

Baywatch, along with Beverly Hills 90210 and Melrose Place, is changing America in ways you don't notice-- precisely because you don't notice. In prior TV and movies any incongruous displays of wealth had an explanation, however cliched. Magnum PI lived off the kindness of Higgins. Rachel on Friends has rich parents. But with rare exceptions, the characters in the new crop of 20 something TV have access to material goods way outside their pay range, but they are made so ordinary you never think to question it. We know very well how Pamela Anderson affords it. But it's made axiomatic that CJ can.



You are so busy wrestling with the sexuality of the show that you don't realize that a certain material lifestyle is being made normal.

III.

Pretend one of the shows was about interracial dating. Say, Guido gets upset that CJ could be with a Black Man whom he assumes is a thug because he listens to rap. Following a standard script, Guido gets into trouble and is saved by The Black Man, and so learns that "it's the person inside that counts" and thus there is nothing wrong with interracial dating. Ok-- let's say you disagree. Let's say you're willing to accept that not all black people are criminals, but you still have some serious reservations about letting your daughter date white guys (see?) "Oh," you think, "they're pushing a liberal agenda." You assume that Hollywood is liberal.

Maybe-- but what's more important is that you just learned that the default is that there is nothing wrong with interracial dating. The show said: this is how most of the world thinks. If you disagree with this position, it's up to you to explain why-- not up to them to defend it.

Well, that's what the show does to leather sofas. It makes having a big TV or new shoes the obvious and default. You can protect yourself from the emotional damage of not looking like Pamela Anderson because you know she's "impossible." But you have no defense against new shoes because they're ordinary. You've incorporated a certain level of materialism into your identity and you can't ever shake it.

Baywatch will end up selling more clothes than breast implants.

IV.

Let's close our eyes and imagine, as I do frequently, peeling off CJ's red lycra one-piece. I like to stand behind her when I do it. What do you see that's impossible? Oh, the lack of tan lines.

It seems like a trivial point, but it's not. No matter what enhancements you do to your body, after days and days on the beach tan lines are inevitable. So either she goes to a tanning studio as well, or her existence is impossible.

Pamela Anderson with no tan lines makes sense, and so you being different is explainable. But when CJ doesn't have them, then you're not going to have them either.

It's wrong to look at the Baywatch women as pornography, especially during a time when actual pornography is becoming so easy to acquire. The real pornography is the surrounding materialism, the casual display of impossible lifestyles and unattainable goods as if they are ordinary commodities. After ten hours of porn, a breast flash doesn't seem like a big deal. After ten hours of Baywatch, leasing a car doesn't, either.

In twenty years, Pamela Anderson probably won't look like she does now, but she'll still have her money. But what's going to happen to the 20 somethings who expect a certain basic level of luxury? Baywatch is popular all over the world, so this won't be limited to Americans. What's coming is a worldwide generation of future 40 year olds who will not be able to afford what they are now being conditioned to expect.



Right now the solution is easy-- debt. Because that's what everyone does to afford what they assume is basic standard of living-- e.g. cable TV. Besides, the 20 somethings always have the future-- the promise of a better job, more money. I wouldn't be surprised if in ten years it will be completely normal to be two or three annual salaries in debt.

The debts will come due, and they will come due the moment the 40 somethings realize that this is the most they will ever make; that they can't take on more debt; they can't live the lifestyle that they thought was ordinary.

I'm prepared to deal with the awesome social consequences of a generation of women with breast implants. But how can I, or anyone, live in a world where it is expected that you live well outside your means?

[xxx]

It's a herd attitude, one that could even be considered part of culture, geared towards protecting the lending/credit card system.

After all, nothing forces you to pay your credit cards, so there must be a societal pressure for the system to work. The bad credit myth works to keep the people in fear of the future and in check from bankrupting the country. There is no need to force consumerism on Americans, it's already deeply part of the culture.

The American consumer and his debt are, after all, the engines of the world economy.

[not_dead_yet]

I feel like this is a female thing, or at least I've only ever known women who cared about their FICO number.

Credit is like pussy. If you're chasing it, you're doing something wrong. If you've got your act together, you've got more than you ever need. Abundance mentality.

[HornyRamone]

Credit is just another superfluous aspect of modern society that doesn't exist in most of the world and didn't exist in most of history, and people get by without it. In fact, 99.999% of humanity is better off without it.

[GlobalMan]

delete

[Gmac]

Credit is your "financial reputation" in America. The higher your score the easier it is to get a good deal / loan offers. For example, allowing you to buy a car at 0% APR means no interest paid over 5-10 years, or it might allow you to get a better rate on a home. Saves you more money in the long run and allows you to invest in other things without worrying about the extra interest. It's supposed to be a "measure" of your fiscal responsibility, not a perfect system but I feel like it works more or less. Either way I don't keep a balance on my credit card(s) each month.

[TheFinalEpic]

It’s been an institutional trap from day one. The “go to school get a job, get married and a mortgage” has been prevalent for 75+ years. Banks make it too easy, as a 25 year old kid I have close to 100k in potential credit. They are praying that I go out and buy a car and have to pay them back 20% per month in interest.

Credit also has to do with keeping up with the joneses and the instant gratification factor. “Sally bought a new purse? I need a new purse, put it on the AMEX”. It’s not only women though. I know of plenty of men that are the exact same way. You have “free money” that you can pay a minimum of 10 bucks to make it go away until next month. It’s a lack of financial education and discipline.

That being said, if you’re responsible, you can game the system and get free flights on an annual basis simply by paying off your cards in full every month. I don’t know why you wouldn’t do this if you have the money. I can usually fly to Vegas and back at least 2 or three times a year based on grocery purchases and stuff I’d be spending on to live anyway. The real shift comes when you start paying hundreds of thousands for ad spend for your businesses on the platinum card... you’ll be flying to Asia and back for free.

As for credit score, it’s a risk indicator for loan officers. This allows them to determine how easily they hand out small business loans and mortgages. I wish people were obsessed with their credit scores, from what I’ve seen, it’s contrary entirely. Most people have not a care in the world and max out their cards.

[Sonoma]

Credit is a must because buying a house outright in the United States is only possible if you live a trash town

[NightVale]

If you don't have good credit, then how will you be able to pay for everything?
If she's in her 30s and obsessed with you having a good job, it's likely she has a history of dating deadbeats she ended up being a sugar momma for.

[RoastBeefCurtains4Me]

Good credit means someone who is responsible enough to be credit worthy, and sensible enough to have low debt. I bet these are valued in a potential mate no matter where you are, even if the term "credit" is not commonly used.

[Cr33pin]

What's the American obsession with "credit"?

It's how we live outside our means and create the facade that we are wealthy.... buying things we dont need to impress people we dont like

MURICA #1

[Teep]

Yea credit is basically your adult scorecard in the U.S.

I wouldn't be marrying a broad without checking her credit score either. It's probably worth more than a pre-nup these days.

[Enoch]

It's absolutely fundasmental as a business owner because at some point you will take on debt to help scale.

[Jetset]

Your credit is pulled left and right, even for apartment rentals and job applications.

[Super_Fire]

Just another extension of Jewish usury that has seeped into modern capitalism.

[PapayaTapper]

The credit system is just a way for the system to leverage and extract "future earnings".

[Blaster]

(12-12-2017 08:45 AM)Cr33pin Wrote:  

What's the American obsession with "credit"?

It's how we live outside our means and create the facade that we are wealthy.... buying things we dont need to impress people we dont like

MURICA #1

It's a fairly simple evaluation of the time-value of money.

Suppose you have a job 25 miles from your home. While you're saving up to buy a car you have to hitch a ride with someone else-- maybe your friend with the car is unreliable and you get fired because you aren't able to show up on time. Or maybe you buy a piece of shit junker for $500 and it breaks down one morning on your way in.

Or, you can just take out a fucking loan and buy a decent pre-owned car today and pay it off in 3 years. You win because you don't have to drive an uncomfortable, unreliable car to work while you save up for something better. The local car dealer wins and stays in business, maybe even buys some of whatever you produce. The bank wins by holding the long-term position and collecting interest on your loan. Society wins because you're in public with a relatively safe, decent-looking car and not a 20 year old rust-bucket that barely passed inspection the last time.

I'm not saying there aren't flaws in consumer culture and that there isn't any problem with irresponsible debt in the US. But credit is an extremely useful financial tool.

[The Beast1]

In my experience, a credit rating is a tell tale sign of responsibility in an individual. Almost everybody that I've met with bad credit has one or more of the following:

1. A useless degree(s) they took out loans for and then doubled down with a graduate degree.
2. A taste for expensive shit they don't need
3. A fucked up family where somebody took out loans in his/her name for equally stupid things like gambling.

For 1 and 2, that's normally self inflicted and comes with a job that doesn't afford that level of income.

For 3, that's screwed up family shit.

Either way, I dated a girl once who had abysmal credit. Turns out she stopped paying off a few credit cards and they went to collections. She did so just because she didn't want to pay them.

Why should I get involved with a girl that doesn't appreciate the effort that goes into creating wealth and thinks you can whip plastic around for stupid shit, tries to encourage me to upcharge for everything, or worse sees me only as a money making machine?

[Veloce]

Man, some salty ass responses here, especially considering we have whole threads by GlobalEntry on how to manipulate credit cards to get the best travel deals.

I don't think there's an 'obsession' with debt, it's just part of the way of life here. Learn to use it to your advantage. I'm glad I live in a society built on trust, that says if you borrow money, you'll pay it back. Not every place on Earth is like that.

I pay off my balance every month and have been doing so for years. Managing debt is part of MAGA, Trump loves debt. How do you think the world works? Managing debt.

Usury sucks when you're on the butt end of it but nobody forces you to sign the dotted line. Don't be tempted by that carrot on a stick.

I've got a little over $200K in total debt (car, mortgage, credit cards) but I'm never late on payments and I've got a solid history, and while that may seem like a shitload of debt for some, it's an appropriate amount relative to my income and assets.

[Intuitive]

(12-12-2017 12:12 PM)Veloce Wrote:  

Man, some salty ass responses here, especially considering we have whole threads by GlobalEntry on how to manipulate credit cards to get the best travel deals.

I don't think there's an 'obsession' with debt, it's just part of the way of life here. Learn to use it to your advantage. I'm glad I live in a society built on trust, that says if you borrow money, you'll pay it back. Not every place on Earth is like that.

I pay off my balance every month and have been doing so for years. Managing debt is part of MAGA, Trump loves debt. How do you think the world works? Managing debt.

Usury sucks when you're on the butt end of it but nobody forces you to sign the dotted line. Don't be tempted by that carrot on a stick.

I've got a little over $200K in total debt (car, mortgage, credit cards) but I'm never late on payments and I've got a solid history, and while that may seem like a shitload of debt for some, it's an appropriate amount relative to my income and assets.

200k really isn't much when you factor in a mortgage. Looks like you're doing pretty good. When evaluating my total debt I separate mortgage (secured, appreciating) from everything else.

I agree that debt is a tool that should be used wisely. My rule is that if it doesn't make me money, I don't borrow money for it. I have a couple business loans and a couple mortgages on properties that provide decent cash flow. I don't have any student loans but if used properly (good major, borrow bare minimum needed) they can also be very beneficial.

Outside of student loan mismanagement I believe the worst debt mistake people make is with auto loans. A $400+ payment towards a depreciating asset is madness to me. Applying that same amount as additional principal to a mortgage can easily save 100k+ in interest and provide long term financial independence via early payoff.

To summarize, debt is very beneficial if self control and a long term outlook focused on wealth creation are used. To have the ability to do that you need to have a good credit score.

[nomadbrah]

As I understand it, bankruptcy is far more lenient in the US than most European countries. You go bankrupt, debts go away, credit score tanks, no new loans. On the other hand, personal debt will haunt you your entire life in Europe. This makes risk taking, such as borrowing to start a small business, an unattractive option.

Then Credit Score is a necessity for lenders if a debtor can default and go into bankruptcy.

[Extinguished Light]

(((credit))) is the tool used to keep the American population enslaved, and through America's power the rest of the world as well.

[Veloce]

(12-12-2017 02:48 PM)Extinguished Light Wrote:  

(((credit))) is the tool used to keep the American population enslaved, and through America's power the rest of the world as well.

:eyeroll: not everything is a Jewish conspiracy, and I'm as critical against Jews as anyone.

Here's an example:

When I was younger and broke I didn't have any credit. I didn't have credit cards, I relied solely on cash and a debit card (same thing). I was broke as fuck, renting from (((landlords))), always behind, would get absolutely destroyed by a single parking ticket or other unexpected expense. Sleeping on a mattress, anything more than $10 eating out was a luxury for me, driving beat up used cars with no warranty that wound up costing me more than they're worth.

Now I'm older and not broke. I have credit. I use credit cards and pay the full balance every month. I haven't incurred a single finance charge in years. I live in a house with my name on it that builds equity every month, I have a million creature comforts that I didn't before, and have an ample cash cushion for unexpected expenses. Car was bought new and obviously under warranty with nary an expense in the last 18 months besides oil changes.

Yes, my income increased significantly over the last 10-15 years. But so did my credit allowance, which I take full advantage of. My quality of life has skyrocketed partially due to that credit.

Tell me again how I'm enslaved.