[Dalaran1991]

I talked about this before, but when the time comes I realize it's not simple.

My situation : I got a blue pill past, got a degree in Sociology (which I did enjoy, for what it’s worth)

Came to France and despite all the job market scare, I managed to land a CDI job as a market researcher.

Pros:

-a CDI job = meaning you can’t normally be fired unless you FUBAR. Working in research also means that there’s no way to really qualify your job so they can’t ever fire you unless you are retarded.

-Job is stable though long hours. 9-6:30. You don’t need to focus on the job, most of the time I get stuff done while shitposting.

-It’s indispensable for getting citizenship, which I’m applying for this year. Frankly this is the only reason why I need this job.

Cons:
-The pay is exactly market average, the environment is absofuckinglutely horrible. 70% colleages girls or gays. Blue pill and SJW rampant.

-You do all the job while the sales get all the credit.

-Zero intelectual stimulation
========================

Now, one of our sale people left. I talked with the sale director about my intention to join the sale team, because I’ve got enough of being a back-office nobody. You also get paid much better in sale, and it might eventually help you to branch out to sale position in more red-pill job.

He said he will consider it and we will discuss next Monday. Obviously my manager isn't happy at all about it. She does gives me alot of freedom and depends on me for a lot of stuff, no bad will toward her.

Here’s the thing though: I dont have sale experience, but if I can game a girl I can game a client (who are usually girls anyway). The thing is that I give zero shit about our product, in fact I despise the whole media industry.

Not to mention my portfolio would involve French clients, so that means very little sale but a lot more politics and ass-kissing, cause niggas dem are the French. No seriously, in B to B they are the worst clients you can expect next to the English.

The catch:

If I leave the research team to join the sale team, and it doesn’t work out, I can not just go back to my old research team. That’s like dumbing a girl then coming back to her after the game doesn’t work out. But I wont be able to stay in the sale team, they will make me leave the company.

Usually it’s a negociation, you take unemployment benefit and a small check in exchange for leaving the company quietly.

That could be bad for my naturalization, which from the beginning till decision time could last anywhere up to 2 years and require steady employment with good paycheck.

I’m not sure if I should jump on this opportunity for not. I hate the monotony 9-6 of research team but I have lots of autonomy and I can do it in my sleep.

Being in sale have the aforementioned benefit but I have the impression you cant just bullshit your way through the job because in order to sell a media product you have to attend events, keep up on the news, know the right people etc. Which I have zero intention to do.

I’m just staying at this job until I’m naturalized, then I’ll either go self-employed or do something that doesn’t involve sitting behind a fucking desk.

I don’t know if, by asking for the transfer, I’m rocking the boat or jumping on an opportunity.

Appreciate any advice,

[Sonoma]

Don't do the move.

Consider if you can do anything more productive WHILE working your current job.

Sales can be a grind, and if you don't care about the product you're going to have a much more difficult time in the long run. You say you can go on autopilot for work, which means you should be fresh out of work hours for personal development

[Suits]

Don't waste life wondering "what if?"

On the other hand, sometimes making the calculated move is simply the smarter option.

It really comes down to how strong your desire is to make a move now and your tolerance for risk.

No one here can tell you which decision to make.

[PolymathGuru]

The first question I should ask is, what are you doing to obtain assets that generate revenue other than your job? Do you have dividend paying stocks? Do you have bonds paying you on a regular basis?

The advantage of having a location independent business is being able to live anywhere and have an alternative to a salary. But people undervalue have assets that pay you over time. Although the downside is that will take at least 10 years to pull off. Could you wait it out?

[Dalaran1991]

Well that's the thing, I dont have much motivation for this move, except for a possibility for career advancement, and an assuredly better salary. That bigger paycheck is my main motivation.

@Polymath: I'm still young and have not built up much capital yet. I have enough save up to last a year without employment (though in light of getting citizenship that's really the last resort). I plan to invest that money but the market in Europe makes it hard to decide on an investment option. That alone could take several threads so I would rather not discuss it here. I'll send you a PM regarding investment.

If by "waiting it out" you mean "stay at a stable income job" until you are ready to say fuck you to everyone, then I guess yes.

Reading Handsome Creepy Eel's thread has made me aware of how important a stable income with good welfare benefits is, even though we loath desk job.

[Noir]

I agree with Suits.

Just one comment regarding the gaming girls is like gaming clients...

It is in theory but it's not.

You can always next a girl. You can't always next a client as they aren't as replaceable to the firm as women may be to us.

Also, your retention % of clients and acquisition of new clients needs to be on point.

With 'game and girls' it won't matter because there aren't major consequences compared to a job where you are working as an agent of a company and 'higher ups'.

I echo what Suits said but thought I would chime in on this.

Analogies are usually good but never let an analogy undermine the importance of an option such as this scenario.

I suggest using a decision matrix to look at it rationally.

Then consider it emotionally and what it would mean for your state of mind when you combine both.

I would personally be looking at these factors whilst juxtaposing them against alternatives (current job and other options in market):

- future prospects/career growth
- networking opportunities
- happiness & reward (both intrinsic and financial)
- logistics, if applicable
- your new boss vs other bosses
- fringe benefits + whether you will get a commission on top of that (sales usually don't have a ceiling which is always a bonus)
- are you suited for this job? can you actually sell and are you outgoing, infectious and convincing?


To be honest, I know your age and relationship status so if you ever were to take a career risk like this, it would be now.

Either way, consider the above.

Good luck mate.

[mcw78912]

(11-06-2017 09:15 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

My situation : I got a blue pill past, got a degree in Sociology (which I did enjoy, for what it’s worth)

Came to France and despite all the job market scare, I managed to land a CDI job as a market researcher.

Pros:

-It’s indispensable for getting citizenship, which I’m applying for this year. Frankly this is the only reason why I need this job.

I'd say focus on getting your citizenship first, if that's what you're after. Once you have the citizenship done, it'll give you a bit more stability. Reconsider career changes at that point, IMO.

[qwertyuiop]

Up to you OP but sales has a lot more upside and is a very good career if you are good at it.

[Off The Reservation]

What would you be selling in the sales position?

[Cheetah]

It's not possible to keep your old position part time and do part time sales?

Your current job might be stable but what if they decide to close the research department?

"Zero intelectual stimulation"

You think that sales will give you intellectual stimulation?

Once many years ago I thought sales would be a good job. Then I sat next to a sales person for half a day and I changed my mind.

You can't have a few days internship at the sales department before making up your mind?

[Cheetah]

Quote:

Reading Handsome Creepy Eel's thread has made me aware of how important a stable income with good welfare benefits is, even though we loath desk job.

Which thread?

[Dalaran1991]

@Cheetah: no its not possible, either I make the full switch or stay as I am. Im a full time worker now so nobody would give me an internship, and I have zero reason to.

I fully expect that going to sales will not make me love my job any more than right now, but it pays better and opens up more door. It just comes at a very bad time, so either I take it now or never.
In France, landing a CDI is like landing a LTR material girl so people camp there for the rest of their life usually. Once you are out its very very hard to find another job. A few of my younger colleagues quit thinking they can find better pastures elsewhere, are still unemployed now. And they are more skilled than I am.

Thats why I must assess the risk because if I fuck up its gonna be bad.

[PolymathGuru]

(11-06-2017 02:04 PM)Cheetah Wrote:  

Quote:

Reading Handsome Creepy Eel's thread has made me aware of how important a stable income with good welfare benefits is, even though we loath desk job.

Which thread?

Don't worry about it. Too many people have slippery tongues.

[The Beast1]

You shouldn't rock the boat when it comes to a sure fire path to permanent residency.

Sales people get kicked all of the time for all sorts of poor reasons. If you lose your job, will your visa go with it?

Do it part time if you can, with the expectation that you aren't getting a commission. Ask to do some cold calls or the work that no one wants to do.

[Cheetah]

Sales is not a good job to be dependent on. You really need to sell to get citizenship.

It's like gaming girls and being desperate, it's not a good recipe.

Now you should of course trust what you want and think yourself, but it's probably prudent to first get your French citizenship, after that you do what you want. Especially since you've never done sales before.

Do something exciting after work instead. Sales probably won't be exciting anyway apart from some travelling and the odd interesting person you will meet.

So what is your gut feeling on this?

[Cheetah]

How much is the citizenship worth in money? Probably more than your potential difference in salary.

You can always get a sales job later. Sales jobs are reasonably easy to get from what I understand.

[Cheetah]

Quote:

I fully expect that going to sales will not make me love my job any more than right now, but it pays better and opens up more door.

A golden door?[/code]

[PolymathGuru]

(11-06-2017 03:14 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

@Cheetah: no its not possible, either I make the full switch or stay as I am. Im a full time worker now so nobody would give me an internship, and I have zero reason to.

I fully expect that going to sales will not make me love my job any more than right now, but it pays better and opens up more door. It just comes at a very bad time, so either I take it now or never.
In France, landing a CDI is like landing a LTR material girl so people camp there for the rest of their life usually. Once you are out its very very hard to find another job. A few of my younger colleagues quit thinking they can find better pastures elsewhere, are still unemployed now. And they are more skilled than I am.

Thats why I must assess the risk because if I fuck up its gonna be bad.

With a statement like this, it sounds like you are in the wrong country or the wrong city. You are talking about your job like a Civil servant in the united states talks about their job. And at least they have job security, a pension, benefits.

As much as people here bitch about the United States, it is one of the best countries in the world for high paying jobs. Unless you really like France, you may want to consider moving into the United States.

[Dalaran1991]

(11-06-2017 04:35 PM)PolymathGuru Wrote:  

Unless you really like France, you may want to consider moving into the United States.

And be a H1B Visa slave? No thanks. I got a full ride to a US college and stayed there for 4 years, so when I made the decision to leave it was not without good cause. I discuss my decision to stay in France in several threads, you can find it under my name in the lifestyle section.

Some of you guys dont understand the freedom of travel and work an US/European citizenship give you, but that's normal.

Suits and Noir are right, this is a decision I would have to make on my own.

Thanks for the help guys, Ill let you know what I decide