[Andreas]

I can't sleep at proper hour and i have to wake up early (6 in the morning, kill me please) and have morning headaches and then go to school which makes me struggle. When i come from school i dont sleep because when i go to bed my sleep lasts for 5+hours in the afternoon. So i feel very tired in the afternnon and even when i go to the gym i cant sleep at the time i want to sleep (10 at night). I may feel very tired but still can't fucking resists to toss and roll literally 50 times before closing my eyes and even then sometimes i get off the bed wondering in the house at midnight

It's not like i was stressed about anything but now that i don't get to sleep properly i'm starting to worry a lot. In fact now i'm really worried about quiting gym or studying. Should i take pills?

[Smitty]

I wake up at 0500 every day and it sucks because I like to stay up late.
Three things I do to help:
1) Don't eat or do any physical activity two hours before bed (this is important!)
2) Take 250-500mg of magnesium (1-2 pills) when you lay down in bed. Magnesium dilates your blood vessels and increases blood flow. In addition to easing pain in the body, better blood flow relaxes you and I've found helps me to sleep. Taking too much causes vivid (i.e. fucked up) dreams for some reason.
3) After you pop the magnesium and lay in bed, whip out a book or your laptop (dimmed screen) to read something. Not websites or Rooshvforum.com Read a book. You don't want to think a lot and you don't want to type a lot responding to comments. Just let your brain calm down and your body will follow.

[DTA]

^^^good advice

I know it's not good for a long term solution, but Benadryl seems to knock me unconscious.

[Pete]

(09-11-2011 05:31 PM)DTA Wrote:  

^^^good advice

I know it's not good for a long term solution, but Benadryl seems to knock me unconscious.

I did this for a while. But it's only a patch. Then I ended up taking a controlled medication until i ran out of 'em. I think the best is to have force of will. And just go to sleep at 8-9pm even if you don't feel like it. Eventually your body will get used to it and start producing melatonin.

[DTA]

(09-11-2011 05:45 PM)Pete Wrote:  

(09-11-2011 05:31 PM)DTA Wrote:  

^^^good advice

I know it's not good for a long term solution, but Benadryl seems to knock me unconscious.

I did this for a while. But it's only a patch. Then I ended up taking a controlled medication until i ran out of 'em. I think the best is to have force of will. And just go to sleep at 8-9pm even if you don't feel like it. Eventually your body will get used to it and start producing melatonin.

Agreed. But for nights where I just want to fall into a coma, it does the trick.

Also, drinking milk/eating cheese seems to relax me as well. I am a horrible sleeper, and I've tried everything.

[Chad Daring]

I have anxiety induced insomnia, something most people in my family have.

There have been 3 things that have helped more then anything else.

1) Get happy. Dont know what that is for you, but the happier I became the better and easier I slept.

2) Get a bottle of Melatonin. I take 5mg-10mg of melatonin almost every night. Its very mild and just helps shut off the the internal chatter going on in my head. I ran out a few days ago and went 2 nights without and I never realized how much of a difference it made till I didn't have it.

Its not habit forming, and you can't OD on it, its a natural product that the body produces on a day to day basis. I've tried a lot of OTC and prescription meds for sleep and the only thing that puts me out more effectively then melatonin is percoset.

3) Bob FUCKING Ross. I have a few seasons of The Joy of Painting on my computer and watch an episode when I'm ready to go to bed. Sounds silly, but the man is very calming, and I find that watching and listening to him helps drown out all the jargon in my head. You can also look on YouTube and find a good deal of videos dedicated to this purpose. Do a search on YT for "ASMR" or "soft spoken sleep"


EDIT: A psych major friend of mine told me if you ABSOLUTELY CANNOT sleep GET OUT of bed. He told me that if you force yourself to stay in bed you'll associate those frustrated "why cant I just sleep feelings" with your bed and it makes it worse. If you really cant fall asleep get up and go do something for half an hour then go back and try again.

[Aliblahba]

(09-11-2011 06:59 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  

2) Get a bottle of Melatonin. I take 5mg-10mg of melatonin almost every night. Its very mild and just helps shut off the the internal chatter going on in my head. I ran out a few days ago and went 2 nights without and I never realized how much of a difference it made till I didn't have it.

Its not habit forming, and you can't OD on it, its a natural product that the body produces on a day to day basis. I've tried a lot of OTC and prescription meds for sleep and the only thing that puts me out more effectively then melatonin is percoset.

OH MAN! I tried Melatonin earlier this year and it gave me super crazy dreams. My uncle gave it to me b/c he started having flashbacks from Iraq. I started getting to that point and quit taking it.

[Chad Daring]

Weird, I've had no issues with melatonin, but it might be that your brain already produces a lot of it to begin with. Im quite certain I dont produce enough because my specific sleep issues is getting calmed enough to fall asleep, and thats basically what melatonin does, gets you in the mood to sleep.

Potassium causes crazy dreams too, you weren't eating bananas before bed were you?

[Smitty]

(09-11-2011 07:07 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

(09-11-2011 06:59 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  

2) Get a bottle of Melatonin. I take 5mg-10mg of melatonin almost every night. Its very mild and just helps shut off the the internal chatter going on in my head. I ran out a few days ago and went 2 nights without and I never realized how much of a difference it made till I didn't have it.

Its not habit forming, and you can't OD on it, its a natural product that the body produces on a day to day basis. I've tried a lot of OTC and prescription meds for sleep and the only thing that puts me out more effectively then melatonin is percoset.

OH MAN! I tried Melatonin earlier this year and it gave me super crazy dreams. My uncle gave it to me b/c he started having flashbacks from Iraq. I started getting to that point and quit taking it.

Same here. When I discovered melatonin I thought it was the greatest thing ever, until the dreams started. It was awful. But the stuff works and I recommend it if you can take it without the crazy dreams.

[Pete]

(09-11-2011 08:08 PM)Smitty Wrote:  

(09-11-2011 07:07 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

(09-11-2011 06:59 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  

2) Get a bottle of Melatonin. I take 5mg-10mg of melatonin almost every night. Its very mild and just helps shut off the the internal chatter going on in my head. I ran out a few days ago and went 2 nights without and I never realized how much of a difference it made till I didn't have it.

Its not habit forming, and you can't OD on it, its a natural product that the body produces on a day to day basis. I've tried a lot of OTC and prescription meds for sleep and the only thing that puts me out more effectively then melatonin is percoset.

OH MAN! I tried Melatonin earlier this year and it gave me super crazy dreams. My uncle gave it to me b/c he started having flashbacks from Iraq. I started getting to that point and quit taking it.

Same here. When I discovered melatonin I thought it was the greatest thing ever, until the dreams started. It was awful. But the stuff works and I recommend it if you can take it without the crazy dreams.

Yeah, I normally don't dream at all. Last week I took melatonin like 3 days only. And since then I've been having weird dreams.

[Brian]

i've always had the same issue - i'm basically just a night person who has had times when i've had to get up early. the only time I ever go to sleep early w/o any kind of drug is when i spend a full day skiing. i've tried pretty much everything. melatonin never worked for me. Ambien has been a lifesaver. its prescription, but i really dont know what i'd do w/o it. just be careful w/it and dont take too much. maybe start w/2 or 3 mg's because if you pop 5 or 10 mgs the first time you will feel like you got hit by a truck whenever you actually wake up. i probably abuse the stuff now but to be honest i dont care, it takes care of my problem.

[Chad Daring]

Weird I've never heard of anyone having issues with melatonin, I take up to 10mg and never have any issues.

Another thing, I'd avoid Lunesta like the plague. I tried it once and a side effect is it makes your mouth taste like a sewer the next day and nothing makes it go away. All your food tastes like shit, gum just tastes the same, and water is the worst, the lack of flavor in water makes the nastiness amplified.

[dk902]

I had stress related insomnia when I was younger. But from what you say that isn't the issue. I really don't like the American pharmaceutical culture of taking a pill every time something isn't right. I'm no eco-warrior but I definitely think natural is better.

Get into a regular routine so your body is used to going to bed, and rising at roughly the same time every day. When your get into bed...body says good night as that's what he's trained to do...easier said than done, but trust me.

How hard do you workout at the gym? This for me is the best remedy there is for bad sleep. Do you bust your balls and do heavy compound lifts, squats, deadlifts, bench etc. If not then you're not tiring your body out enough to get the benefits of an early night after feeling tired from physical exercise.

Close your curtains, don't look at bright screens before you go to sleep, don't drink caffeine before bed, drink plenty of water and eat well. All simple methods which are all preferable to taking pills in my view.

[velkrum]

If you can't sleep you absolutely SHOULD be eating before bed !

NOT eating 2 hours before sleep is extremely UNhealthy and damaging.

Your body goes catabolic when there is not enough food in your system and it needs nutrients to help facilitate physiological development and function.

Try eating several pieces of fruit, a ton of Omega 3 Fish oils (7g - 10g) and some kind of lean grass fed beef or poultry !

You need to make sure your satiated before bed...

Also..DO NOT use a laptop or anything that emits light if your trying to sleep. Your melatonin levels will become altered (in a bad way) and your sleeping cycle will be thrown off.

[Blackhawk]

Try this. It's a soft blue light that pulses in a programmed pattern. You breathe in sync with the light and you're following the breathing pattern of someone falling asleep. Used by jet lagged travelers and people who can't stop thinking when they should be falling asleep.

http://www.amazon.com/Nightwave-Sleep-As...B0036FJ7AU

Eating before sleeping varies greatly with metabolism. Some short fuse metabolisms will wake up mid-night hungry for food if not fed. Others can't fall asleep if they eat near sleep time. Varies greatly person to person, even within the same family, and appears not to be genetic.

[speakeasy]

There are no people I envy more than those who sleep like logs. I wake up about every half hour through the night. I don't even need an alarm clock since I'm constantly waking up anyway. It's like my body doesn't like being asleep, even when I'm tired. I can recall maybe 2 times in the last 15 years that I slept an entire night through without waking up once.

I still haven't found a long-term solution that works for me. I got prescribed Ambien and while it did put me under, it's very expensive and you will feel groggy for a long time after you wake up. It also had some psychedelic effects. After taking it I would start hallucinating and it made music sound really intense in a way I never experienced when I feel asleep with my ipod on. Nothing I want to mess with long term.

Melatonin pills are cheap and can be bought from any supplement store. They'll make me drowsy if I'm having trouble sleeping, especially on an empty stomach. They cause no side-effects but they don't put you down as well as Ambien.

[Gmac]

Not using any sort of technology an hour before bed should help too (especially with a screen).

[chefedemaquina]

Stay away from alcohol and tobacco before bedtime, don't drink anything with caffeine several hours before bedtime, I pop a few advil PM's on occasion, it helps.

[Andreas]

I have a confession to make. Bob Ross and sound of paper makes me calm and relax a lot. I like the tracing paper gentle crackle and old papers rubbing with slow music. It probably feels like drug. Also massage on my lower back makes me sleep like a baby

[Tim9000]

How old are you and how long have you had a late bedtime that you can't seem to phase advance? (i.e make earlier). Read up on Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome (DSPS).

The cutting edge treatment for DSPS is to combine using extremely small doses of melatonin (far, far smaller doses than the 3mg pills sold in stores) several hours before your *current* natural bedtime, combined with light therapy upon waking. If you want more detail PM me--I'll paste in a detailed protocol taking into account the latest research that I wrote up for a friend last year. Unfortunately the cutting-edge treatment is worthless for a lot of sufferers, but some people have luck with it.

I've been suffering from DSPS since puberty. In my case it's pretty much untreatable (fairly common) and it's affected my life for the worse. My current bedtime is 3:30am. If I wasn't a software engineer I'd have to take shift work and probably make half as much money. Fortunately, engineering in general and software engineering in particular tolerates eccentricity, including late-shifted work hours. In 15 years I've worked at six companies and had perhaps ten managers, and only one of them gave me any trouble about coming in late. In many jobs I've regularly arrived at work after noon. On paper I'm a success (high net worth for my age) but if I didn't have DSPS I'd be in a completely different career field, probably a lot more into what I'm doing and hence even more successful financially, and banged 3x the number women for reasons directly related to my sleep schedule. I won't list them all but I will tell you this: software engineering is not conducive to building social networks with women in them, or meeting men who are particularly interested in them (i.e. no role models for betas, which is definitely what I was). I haven't been that into computers for about ten years but I KNOW that I can't function in a job requiring me to get to work at say, 9am, so in engineering I stay.

Sleep problems like this are especially difficult because almost nobody understands/believes that you can't fix your problem simply by getting up earlier a few days in a row and avoiding excitement in the evening. Even my father, a smart man (but fucking stubborn idiot) doesn't believe in the idea of circadian rhythm disorders even after I've shown him research explaining it all. Yeah, I'm just too lazy to spend a week fixing something that I've been complaining about since age 13.

I guess this turned into a rant!

[ersatz]

Steve Pavlina wrote some good articles on sleeping better and waking up early:

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/05...rly-riser/
http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2007/10...lly-alert/

These articles were before his new age stage of writing.