[911]

(10-22-2017 06:09 AM)Mage Wrote:  

(10-21-2017 08:37 PM)911 Wrote:  

Christianity is under severe attack in Mexico too. The neopagan satanic death cult of Santa Muerte is being pushed right from the top. The top in Mexico of course being the drug cartels, who run the country with the globalists full support.

Blood rituals, human sacrifice, black magic, the works. It's also very active among US Mexicans (esp mestizos). As someone we know recently said, they're not sending their best...

You have a crippled view on what paganism is. We the defendants of paganism are talking about smart sensible and virtuous types of European paganism. Santa Muerte is Christianity mixed with some mesoamerican beliefs and nobody with white heritage is advocating that. Nobody want's to see the crazy mesoamerican death cults with their over the top human sacrifice return. I am absolutely glad Conquistadors destroyed those bloodthirsty demonic civilizations, good riddance. Maybe they didn't kill enough of these death worshipers and that is why the Death cult creeps back.

European paganism was not like that. Historians even argue if Europeans did practice human sacrifice at all so either they didn't or it was very rare or it was just a play and pretend like Christians pretending to eat flesh of Christ. Early Christians did in fact get accused of Cannibalism for their symbolic acts of communion, so it was repulsive to pagans of that time and the same misinterpretation of rituals could have happened by Christians on Germanic pagan rituals.

You say I have a crippled view of what paganism is, then go on and claim that Nordic/Germanic tribes didn't even practice human sacrifices, or it was "just play"... NAPALT, then? That kind of whitewash revisionism is totally preposterous. If anything, you have a christianized, sanitized view of paganism. You want the "good kind" of paganism, not the kind with the human sacrifices, I mean come on...

Blood sacrifices were central to European pagan cults, denying this basic aspect is a non-starter.


Sacrifice to Toutatis


Blót (sacrifice) to Odin. In the middle a person is apparently being sacrificed on an altar. A large bird of prey, possibly one of Odin’s ravens, hovers above. To the left another person has a noose around their neck and is hanging from a tree. Gotlandic picture stone from Stora Hammars I, in Lärbro parish, Sweden.


Sacrificial Tree with hanging Human Sacrifices


Human sacrifices at Trelleborg, from the Denmark National Museum site:


Skeleton of one of the four children that were found in the wells.

Quote:

At Trelleborg a sacrificial site was found from the time before the Viking fortress was erected in 980-81. In five c. 3 metre-deep wells human and animal skeletons were found, together with jewellery and tools. Of the total of five human sacrifices, four were young children aged between 4 and 7.

It is very significant that the skeletons were found in wells. The Vikings attributed great symbolic importance to wells. Odin gained his wisdom from drinking at Mímir's well. In exchange he had to sacrifice one of his eyes to Mímir. But what could the sacrifice of a whole human being be rewarded with?

At Trelleborg a small enclosure was also identified near to three of the sacrificial wells. Here a sacrificial ritual may have taken place before the victims were deposited in the deep wells. Perhaps the sacrificial site belonged to the settlement that was located 300 m from Trelleborg. When the fortress was constructed, the cult site was dismantled and the sacrifices stopped. In the new Christian religion, which was becoming increasingly dominant, humans were not sacrificed.

http://en.natmus.dk/historical-knowledge...acrifices/

Even putting aside human sacrifices, you want to worship thunder gods, war gods, giant dick gods and fertility goddesses, and make blood sacrifices to them, cutting up animals and drinking their blood, smearing yourselves in blood and spreading it on the earth to make sure the sun comes up in the morning, that crops are good, and to make sure it rains (but not too much)...

In 2017? Seriously?

I kind of understand where you're coming from here, you're looking at it from the bleak prism of a gutted, emasculated, cucked Christianity and an increasingly dominant anti-European cultural marxist society. From this perspective, that sanitized, LARPy tribalistic view of pre-medieval northern Europe has some appeal, but it's a totally plastic construct and is at best void of any spiritual foundation.

[Mage]

^

I didn't say Europeans for sure didn't make human sacrifices. They probably did at some point somewhere. At some point everyone did them in past even Jews. The question is at which point did which nation stopped doing this or at least did it very rarely. You wanted to draw parallels between mesoamerican and European paganism. These things are incomparable by frequency and consistency.

Second, if you had read any of my posts or listened to serious pro-pagan youtubers like Varg Vikirnes or others, you would understand that no one is going to worship old fertility gods in the same way as ancient pagans did. We now have increased understanding about cause and effect and forces of nature, so we don't need to worship them using these obsolete methods. But what smart neopagans want to do is to create a spirituality where you observe the natural laws and respect them and treat them as holy. A spirituality not based on some old book or single prophet but a spirituality based on understanding the laws governing nature, both nature outside humans and our inner nature and living accordingly to it. Both Christians and atheists are rushing to create artificial world's to satisfy their utopias. Paganism is about understanding that we are not above natural world, but we are part of it and need to live in a state of a certain balance. Often it includes living in minimalist conditions and refusing some comforts of modern life - that is modern day sacrifice.

[911]

So your brand of neopaganism is kind of like Agenda 21 luciferianism.

[Mage]

(10-22-2017 11:26 AM)911 Wrote:  

So your brand of neopaganism is kind of like Agenda 21 luciferianism.

What do you believe? That Jesus will come 2nd time and give us all free oil, rare earth minerals and gas to continue us burning them to support our excessive lifestyles without worries for all eternity?

The difference between neopagnism and Agenda 21 (just looked it up so I am not expert on what it is) is pretty big, one believes in self-conscious and cultural solution, the other believes in a technocratic and socially engineered (forced) solution.

Also something I repeat, but I predict will fall on deaf ears for you the third time - Paganism is also about INNER nature, not just external nature and resources. Many people don't understand what it is completely. Inner nature means holistic living, psychological integrity, living with purpose according to instincts in our genes. Recognizing healthy sex roles is inner nature. Recognizing healthy and natural relationship between age groups is inner nature. Humans need certain symbolism and naturalism that is put in us by our evolution and nature and the absence of those things in artificial environment is choking us. Humans need fresh air, green forests. Humans need game to hunt and warm family fire to return to. Without it, in urban artificial environment, humans go crazy and engage in self destructive bahaviors like drugs, homosexuality, welcoming of aggressive immigrants and so on. This is something Agenda 21 guys, atheists and even Christians don't recognize. The more artificial you become, the more seemingly you control the outer nature, and the more shields you build between yourself and outer nature, like winds and quakes and animals, the more blind you are to your inner nature and the more inner forces take control of you making you destroy everything you have built. Without connection to nature people will turn on each other and cannibalize each other in a self destructive fashion, it's already happening all around, look at these urban people parasiting on welfare, supporting all sorts of degeneracy and their own occupation by invaders - it's direct result of urban shielding from nature.

Paganism is about escaping the city and regaining your inner sanity. No God and messiah can give this yo you, if anything urbanism is just fertile grounds for more cults and separation. Only exposure to nature and minimalist lifestyle can return sanity to people.

[Sherman]

Paganism also refers to the ancient Greeks and Romans who brought us science, philosophy, and democracy.

The biggest sin of Christianity is its insistence on being the only way with no other choices. This is not European. It is oriental despotism.

The Greek philosophers believed in multiple paths and points of view. Plato would advocate one position and then Aristotle would open up a competing school to disagree with Plato. Philosophers were flexible and not dogmatic in their views. Even Plato criticized his own theory of forms. This open mindedness fits in with polytheism. Every European man has the right to follow his own god. The Romans were open minded about religion, and the various cults only had to acknowledge the authority of the state and they could practice. Even Yahweh was included as a god in some temples.

The pagan philosophers also realized that morality needed to be based on reason and not superstition, and they developed complete systems of ethical behavior.

Democritus developed a complete system of morality but most of his books were lost. From what little we know about him, he was a champion of democracy and was the creator of atomic theory. If we had his teachings, we would find that they were superior to the Bible in every way.

Here are a few quotes of Democritus:

"[I would] rather discover one cause than gain the kingdom of Persia"

"If your desires are not great, a little will seem much to you; for small appetite makes poverty equivalent to wealth."

"It is hard to fight desire; but to control it is the sign of a reasonable man."

"There are some men who are masters of cities but slaves to women".

"No power and no treasure can outweigh the extension of our knowledge."


Epicurus continued the teachings of Democritus, that everything is composed of atoms and the void. He believed there were gods, but that they are irrelevant to our lives, because our own happiness depends on our own efforts (similar to Buddhism). In Ancient Rome he was widely followed and some even worshiped him as a god. He promoted pleasure as the ultimate good, which was not hedonism, but better translated as "peace of mind".

Here are some saying of Epicurus:

"A blessed and indestructible being has no trouble himself and brings no trouble upon any other being; so he is free from anger and partiality, for all such things imply weakness."

"The wealth required by nature is limited and is easy to procure; but the wealth required by vain ideals extends to infinity."

"The just man is most free from disturbance, while the unjust is full of the utmost disturbance."

"We must not force Nature but persuade her. We shall persuade her if we satisfy the necessary desires and also those bodily desires that do not harm us while sternly rejecting those that are harmful."

In summary, much of the history of Western Civilization is the history of the European man overthrowing the shackles of a despotic oriental cult and reclaiming his natural freedom to think. It was the polytheistic free men of democratic Athens who were the first europeans to fight back the tide of oriental despotism in the form of Persia. What some call "paganism" is actually better translated as "European Man" - a man who yearns to have a mind free to doubt and think. Even Odin sacrificed his one eye on the tree of Yggdrasil so he could obtain wisdom.

[nomadbrah]

Paganism means living according to the racial truths of your people.

It means understanding which mountains, streams and fields made your people and thus - made you. Paganism is understanding the collective unconscious of your people. The unbroken chain of your ancestors. It is ancestor respect and worship.

Rituals only matter so far as they create continuity between generations. Tradition is one of the most important things in a happy life imo.

[ColSpanker]

One thing I have never understood is a concept of unified "Paganism". It seems to be 21st century thing with large "Pagan" festivals all over the Western world. But these are often generic Pagans. Day one is the Wiccan moondance, Day two the Druids, Day three the local Aliestercrowleyites doing their thing, etc. So how many thunder gods does it take to screw in an oak grove?

[Disco_Volante]

[Leonard D Neubache]

Both are moot.

Paganism could not thrive again without the orderly die-off of most of the world's population, along with an absence of hostile invaders willing to fill the power void.

Christianity is proving itself to be incapable as a theological force of holding back the worst aspects of human nature, at home and abroad. It's similarly fated to paganism.

Christians and pagans might survive the next century, but not because they're Christian's or pagans. For the most part they will be required to ignore their spiritual leaders and their tenets of faith if they want their bloodlines to mark 2101.

And just as after the genocides of the 20th century, those that survive will claim it's because they were faithful, obviously ignoring the millions that perished who were also.

[Wutang]

If you're a supporter of Greco-Roman civilization, then you should thank the church for preserving it's learning and culture when then Germanic barbarians were busy torching it. A big reason why the church managed to establish itself so deeply into European civilization is because these tribes were not capable of administering or governing and hence the church had to step in to fill in the space.

[VincentVinturi]

Putin is, as usual, utterly full of shit.

It's not "white Christian" culture (which white people? and which type of Christianity?) that has elevated the United States into the greatest economic miracle the world has ever seen in the space of about 250 years.

It's the yearning for freedom and the desire to improve one's lot in life through hard work, creation of value, and peaceful trade, without being aggressed upon by others, or by a tyrannical state; something which most Russians, and certainly not Putin, know not the first thing about. Certainly not if history or the present state of Russia is any indication.

Go have a chat with any Russian actually trying to run an honest business in Russia. It's an absolute freaking nightmare.

Russia Today is such a blatant propaganda machine that it's amazing anybody can believe of word of the crap they put out.

What's perhaps most insulting is Putin's ridiculous insistence that all of the territories of the former USSR are somehow brothers of Russia, or worse yet, extensions of Russia itself by dint of a "shared religion".

Putin and his thugs invade a sovereign country that wants nothing to do anymore with the corruption, terror, incompetence, nepotism, violence and regression that Putin (and the USSR) stood for, and continues to stand for. So of course he wants to sell this notion of Eurasian oneness to downplay the fact that Russians are Russians, and everybody else is most certainly not.

I can't speak for Georgians or Poles, or Czechs or Bulgarians, but any self-respecting Ukrainian I know would never accept the ridiculous notion that they're somehow "Russian" or brothers / sisters merely because it's a Christian country. The two could not be more different.

This shared religion is NOT what binds people together. Ukrainians (and honest Russians mind you) want to be free from the hell that was the USSR. It has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with being able to get ahead in life without having a gun pointed at your head and being undermined and lied to at every turn by goons in power.

[Leonard D Neubache]

^I'm certain that several wars devastating Europe and leaving the US an untouched wartime industrial superpower had nothing to do with it.



Don't get me wrong. I like muh freedoms. But let's not romanticise the issue too much.

[fenetre]

Enter blanket statement neatly encapsulating worldview, accompanied by sweeping statement of superiority.

All I'll add is that I've no doubt Christian institutions have been coopted by Satanists (= Marxists) and that they're rotting from the inside.

Everyone has this retarded six year old's view of Christianity. And everyone argues against this straw man.

Having lately read a little more into Christianity and its history I appreciate the depth and the magnitude of what it is. I feel lied to about the version I was told it was.

Remember that the advanced civilisation we live in now was borne out of Christian cultures.

But let's forget about all that and long for a return of the glorious days of pagan savagery, slavery, brutality and poverty.

[Guile]

[Samseau]

(10-22-2017 06:09 AM)Mage Wrote:  

(10-21-2017 10:32 PM)911 Wrote:  

The Romans had an advanced civilization, as the inheritors of Greek and other civilizations, but prior to their leadership embracing Christianity, they lacked the moral foundation to keep their empire going. No amount of technolgy can make up with the kind of moral decay they've undergone. The northern pagans had very little in terms of technology or civilization.

What are you talking about? The Roman decline started after embracing Christianity. It made their warriors soft and not willing to fight.

Roman empire hit their peak at 117 AD, when Christianity was still underground. It kept close to that that peak condition for two more centuries. Rome became Christian during reign of Constantine 306–337AD and shortly thereafter a rapid loss of territory and influence fallowed.

Completely false. Ovid was writing poems about how to pick up Roman women, how they never stopped riding the cock carousel, and how women would get abortions back around 100 AD.

Anyone who has done a modicum of research into Roman decadence knows it started with the birth of the Emperor system, right around 100 AD.

It was only after 200 years of a fucked up Roman world of homosexuality, easy divorce, broken families, and endless bastards did Christianity find a huge Roman population looking for salvation from their hurtful lives.

Constantine himself was a bastard, his mother a believer because she had no one left to turn to except God, and Constantine imposed order on a broken Roman world through God's wrath.

Quote:

Romans had a very virtuous pagan culture as did Germans. Not many know this but for instance monogamy in contemporary Christianity is inherited from Roman laws and not from Jews. Jews practiced polygamy from time to time, but Romans were strictly monogamous. The moral decline in Rome's last years has to do with new religions like Christianity overriding the old traditions and some people just losing faith in anything, not being able to preserve old ways and also not being able to accept the new ways.

False again, Roman's had tons of sex slaves. They weren't monogamous unless in the sense they did not marry more than one woman, but they fucked whenever they felt like it.

Same with the Jews, the rich Jews all had concubines. For Christ sake, Augustine, a saint, had concubines. All Roman men had easy access to pussy, but marriage became more and more unobtainable due to broken laws and a broken culture.

Rome was an unsustainable slave economy. It was doomed to end the second they could no longer conquer more land and people.

And slave economies are morally toxic for the slave-owners. This is a big part of why Romans fell into decadence.

[Rocha]

(10-24-2017 01:15 AM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  

Putin is, as usual, utterly full of shit.

It's not "white Christian" culture (which white people? and which type of Christianity?) that has elevated the United States into the greatest economic miracle the world has ever seen in the space of about 250 years.

It's the yearning for freedom and the desire to improve one's lot in life through hard work, creation of value, and peaceful trade, without being aggressed upon by others, or by a tyrannical state; something which most Russians, and certainly not Putin, know not the first thing about. Certainly not if history or the present state of Russia is any indication.

Go have a chat with any Russian actually trying to run an honest business in Russia. It's an absolute freaking nightmare.

Russia Today is such a blatant propaganda machine that it's amazing anybody can believe of word of the crap they put out.

What's perhaps most insulting is Putin's ridiculous insistence that all of the territories of the former USSR are somehow brothers of Russia, or worse yet, extensions of Russia itself by dint of a "shared religion".

Putin and his thugs invade a sovereign country that wants nothing to do anymore with the corruption, terror, incompetence, nepotism, violence and regression that Putin (and the USSR) stood for, and continues to stand for. So of course he wants to sell this notion of Eurasian oneness to downplay the fact that Russians are Russians, and everybody else is most certainly not.

I can't speak for Georgians or Poles, or Czechs or Bulgarians, but any self-respecting Ukrainian I know would never accept the ridiculous notion that they're somehow "Russian" or brothers / sisters merely because it's a Christian country. The two could not be more different.

This shared religion is NOT what binds people together. Ukrainians (and honest Russians mind you) want to be free from the hell that was the USSR. It has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with being able to get ahead in life without having a gun pointed at your head and being undermined and lied to at every turn by goons in power.

I found your hero's!

[VincentVinturi]

(10-24-2017 07:47 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

I found your hero's!

And I, yours:

[Rocha]

(10-24-2017 09:53 PM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  

(10-24-2017 07:47 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

I found your hero's!

And I, yours:

Could not come up with a real character?? ))

Oh yeah, many times reality is stranger than fiction...

[VincentVinturi]

(10-24-2017 10:02 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

Oh yeah, many times reality is stranger than fiction...

You got a handle on that, do you?

[NovaVirtu]

(10-19-2017 06:16 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

We have some Russian speakers on the forum. Can anyone actually confirm that the English subtitles correspond with what Putin is saying in Russian?

It's possible someone faked it, and I cannot find any news website covering this story. If he actually said those words, don't y'all think the leftist media would all up in arms about it?

[Samseau]

I messed up my dates. Ovid was writing around 0 AD. The decadence that killed Rome took a long time to fully manifest itself across the empire, however, due to lack of technology and rapid travel. Today it feels like decadence spreads at 10x the rate it did in the past.

[Mage]

(10-24-2017 06:38 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(10-22-2017 06:09 AM)Mage Wrote:  

(10-21-2017 10:32 PM)911 Wrote:  

The Romans had an advanced civilization, as the inheritors of Greek and other civilizations, but prior to their leadership embracing Christianity, they lacked the moral foundation to keep their empire going. No amount of technolgy can make up with the kind of moral decay they've undergone. The northern pagans had very little in terms of technology or civilization.

What are you talking about? The Roman decline started after embracing Christianity. It made their warriors soft and not willing to fight.

Roman empire hit their peak at 117 AD, when Christianity was still underground. It kept close to that that peak condition for two more centuries. Rome became Christian during reign of Constantine 306–337AD and shortly thereafter a rapid loss of territory and influence fallowed.

Completely false. Ovid was writing poems about how to pick up Roman women, how they never stopped riding the cock carousel, and how women would get abortions back around 100 AD.

Anyone who has done a modicum of research into Roman decadence knows it started with the birth of the Emperor system, right around 100 AD.

It was only after 200 years of a fucked up Roman world of homosexuality, easy divorce, broken families, and endless bastards did Christianity find a huge Roman population looking for salvation from their hurtful lives.

Constantine himself was a bastard, his mother a believer because she had no one left to turn to except God, and Constantine imposed order on a broken Roman world through God's wrath.

Quote:

Romans had a very virtuous pagan culture as did Germans. Not many know this but for instance monogamy in contemporary Christianity is inherited from Roman laws and not from Jews. Jews practiced polygamy from time to time, but Romans were strictly monogamous. The moral decline in Rome's last years has to do with new religions like Christianity overriding the old traditions and some people just losing faith in anything, not being able to preserve old ways and also not being able to accept the new ways.

False again, Roman's had tons of sex slaves. They weren't monogamous unless in the sense they did not marry more than one woman, but they fucked whenever they felt like it.

Same with the Jews, the rich Jews all had concubines. For Christ sake, Augustine, a saint, had concubines. All Roman men had easy access to pussy, but marriage became more and more unobtainable due to broken laws and a broken culture.

Rome was an unsustainable slave economy. It was doomed to end the second they could no longer conquer more land and people.

And slave economies are morally toxic for the slave-owners. This is a big part of why Romans fell into decadence.

It seems that everybody had concubines, Romans, Jews and even early Christians. I think concubinage is not that bad if that helps to keep the family together. It's the legitimacy of children that is most important and therefore the monogamy of married women.

You are right that slave based economy has limitations and it is probably more important factor then religion. It could be that Christianity at that time fared better because Christianity generally was less mean to slaves compared to paganism of that time, so for many people of that time it was an upgrade. However a modern paganism without slavery could do better then Christianity.

I think the Emperor based system could have done moral harm, because it also is a de facto step away from paganism and looking at nature to find inspiration about what is right and what is wrong and starting to look at a single corruptible person, putting that mortal person on the level of Gods, which is blasphemous and most Romans probably knew emperor is no real God, but having to proclaim that belief about loud developed some double think and consequentially - loss of morals.

Thank you for correcting my knowledge about Roman history. I think my point still stands about natural law imposed paganism being more sensible then worshiping of a single individual, be he an emperor or a deified human.

[FilipSRB]

(10-25-2017 12:06 PM)NovaVirtu Wrote:  

We have some Russian speakers on the forum. Can anyone actually confirm that the English subtitles correspond with what Putin is saying in Russian?

It's possible someone faked it, and I cannot find any news website covering this story. If he actually said those words, don't y'all think the leftist media would all up in arms about it?

The video is posted on Russia Insider, so I would say that the chances of false/bad translation are close to nill.

[VincentVinturi]

^^^
Subtitles are fairly accurate.

[Mage]

Subtitles are accurate.