[mofo]

Let's make a list.

[Pete]

(09-09-2011 03:57 PM)mofo Wrote:  

- it's good to have a constant in life

In my opinion, change is better constancy. It keeps things fresh.

(09-09-2011 03:57 PM)mofo Wrote:  

- fucking the same woman for a long time can get boring ( Can it not get boring?? )

The longest I've been with a woman is about 6 or 7 months. After that it gets too boring for me (even though I always have 2 or 3 girls on the side).

I prefer to meet new girls every week. It's amazing how many woman there are in the world. I just went to a Bruno Mars concert yesterday and there were so many women, it was like a revelation. Of about 15,000 people, 10,000 were women.

[scorpio]

LTR opens up a larger possible pool of beautiful chicks.

That's about it, really.

[thegmanifesto]

" I just went to a Bruno Mars concert yesterday and there were so many women, it was like a revelation. Of about 15,000 people, 10,000 were women."

That is a good Contarian play.

I bet there were mad girls there.

The downside is you had to listen to that fedora wearing weesh guys voice. Nails on a chalkboard would be more pleasurable.

Where you able to convert?

[UgSlayer]

I know this board is all about getting notches and all that, but let's not ignore the benefits of being in a LTR with a top grade girl/woman who respects you and your masculinity who will do whatever you say. None of my fuck buddies have ever come close to the level of compliance, tenderness, caring, and all the pussy shit that we like but never admit to liking in front of a group of other guys, as an LTR with a girl that I'm in love with.

Being a player and being in an LTR both have its benefits.

Sure your cold approach game probably drops after an LTR, but you retain a baseline level of game regardless and just put in work to get back to where you were (skill-wise and consistency) before the LTR.

[Samseau]

I mean, when you're ready to settle down LTR's will become appealing. Until then, game or die it seems.

[Vicious]

And have you negotiated the "exclusive" part? ... there are things that can be done with this...

[bmn200]

Everything can be 'risky' I don't get that one.

[Kaizen]

Ad: you can bang raw

I forgot what that feels like

Last night had me questioning whether all this work for sex with condom is worth it

[Pilgrim37]

(09-09-2011 08:40 PM)Pete Wrote:  

(09-09-2011 03:57 PM)mofo Wrote:  

- it's good to have a constant in life

In my opinion, change is better constancy. It keeps things fresh.

(09-09-2011 03:57 PM)mofo Wrote:  

- fucking the same woman for a long time can get boring ( Can it not get boring?? )

The longest I've been with a woman is about 6 or 7 months. After that it gets too boring for me (even though I always have 2 or 3 girls on the side).

I prefer to meet new girls every week. It's amazing how many woman there are in the world. I just went to a Bruno Mars concert yesterday and there were so many women, it was like a revelation. Of about 15,000 people, 10,000 were women.

Bruno Mars?
I bet that was fun.

Some events are to painful to attend no matter the poontang count.

[babelfish669]

That is a pretty shoddy disadvantages list. Your relationship will be what you make of it. Once you let the girl call the shots it will suck. My last long term relationship I would travel and not see her for a month. I excluded her from most social activities so it didn't interfere with anything else. Case closed.

[Magnum]

Adsex on tap get to flirt with her hot friends
social proof and pre-selection
raw dog sex
being included in couples social situations
having a charming partner is very good in business circles
new group of friends to hang with

Disads:Gets boring
have to provide emotional support
no time to yourself
can be caught by her friends gaming other women
money drain
cant sleep with her single friends (usually)

[ElJefe]

Damn, boys. What's up with this LTR nostalgia???

First things first. Don't think an LTR is the solution for regular sex. Think about it. When do you have the best, most frequent sex with the same girl? At least in my case, it's when we're just "friends", before we start infringing on each other with our growing emotional attachment. That's when all the fun gets sucked out of the relationship. When you go from being happy because she actually turned up (your expectations are low) to when you get a bit anxious because she's taking her time (your expectations are high) when in reality, she's taking the same amount of time, but the oxytocin in your system in bonding you to her.

No man, LTRs can be nice. In fact, for most men, I'd say they'd be just fine with an LTR. some of my buddies are in great LTRs, and I envy them - and then I'll hear about the dreary sex-life, and WHAM!

But if it's fun, regular, raw-dogging sex, it's the first 4-6 weeks of a new female acquaintance that are the best. Life would be perfect if I hit it off with a girl who met the cut for FWB every two weeks. Just as the latest one would be getting past its shelf date, I could slot the new one in.

As soon as familiarity, too much comfort, not enough dread on her part sneak into the picture, the fun is overrrrrrrrrr.

[UgSlayer]

Some of the best sex I ever had was with my lastest ltr. We fucked almost every day andmultiple times a day raw. Best head. Only girl to ever make me nut while she was on top. I taught her how I liked everything to the t she was pretty inexperienced and young when I met her.

[WestIndianArchie]

Let's resurrect this post

My short game is good.

My long game is very meh.

Let's use this post to talk LTR's

WIA

[Nascimento]

Good idea.

I'm still young. But in my experience it seems like the grass is always greener on the other side.

Must sacrifices always be made?

Objectively, though, I think LTR's are a thing for men over 30+ to gradually ease into. Before that guys owe it to themselves to build up experience. Do their time in the trenches.

Outside of an LTR, the alternative is seeing different chicks or constantly refreshing your roster. But you can also take a break and avoid it all for a while, and come back stronger. This isn't a popular opinion, most guys feel you should always have something going, but time off does wonders for me.

Can you take the same break in an LTR? I don't think so. But it's probably effective to be emotionally and physically distant every now and then. Take a week or two off after spending a particularly great time with your girl and have her miss and crave you more than usual.

Here are some of my unfiltered thoughts. I'm back to work.

[philosophical_recovery]

This has been a difficult point for me.

I've had a lot of short (weeks-months) flings/relationships in the past several years, but nothing that long. I think my last was 9 months? But I checked out when I realized how much time/money I was putting in and how little effort I seem to have received on her part.

In the past, long ago, I had several 1.5-2yr relationships. But, I was also more delta/beta and willing to give in to a lot of bullshit that I cannot fathom doing now. Also know that 1 was cheating most of that whole time.

Biggest, most consistent errors:

• Bargaining of any sort - if you reach this point, you seem to have already lost
• Being too easy to get locked down - I've fallen for this where the girl is a 7.5 and I'm happy enough to have her around that I get less skeptical of her ability to please me. They smell this like sharks smell blood in the water
• Dumping too much money on trips without her showing solid commitment first - I spent a few $k on my last one on some trips. I make good money, but I had to twist her arm to do anything much other than drive to see me. She'd been pampered by being a 7.5 in a quagmire of 5s for far too long
• My own complacency - I have not dropped my gym habit for any girl, but I gave up on a good proportion of my social activity that was separate from her. I tend to bounce back and forth between introverted and extroverted phases, and I need to maintain the extroverted side. It helps that I am still steadily meeting girls when that is going on. Even if I'm not doing much more than flirting with them, it keeps my game tighter. I let this slip quite a bit over the past year.
• Not making things interesting enough - I got bored with our relationship routine but I didn't do much other than a few trips. It would've taken a little bit more effort to do some cool things without wasting a bunch of time and money all at once
• Slipping back into porn/jerking it - When I realized that the sex wasn't that satisfying anymore, I retreated back into old habits. She needs to feel the drive to satisfy you. If she cannot satisfy you, at least to a certain amount, she will feel useless, dejected, and will stop putting in the effort.
  

[XPQ22]

Sexual boredom has been a big downside of my previous LTRs that hasn't been as much of a problem once I started spinning plates. How long can two people go seeing each other causally and not let the boredom set in? At least for my part, I know I was able to see one girl for the better part of six months on average once a week, at most twice, with one break of several weeks and our meets were always exciting, and she only once pulled the "I dunno I'm just not feeling it let's just cuddle" thing.

Other than that she was getting herself prepped and putting the collar I gave her on (all three girls I saw regularly over the past year were into kink ) the minute she knew I'd be stopping by. Yes Sir!

If I were living with her, however, I know I'd be getting the "I have a headache" excuse on the regular before a year was out.

Downsides: Do you have other options in play, enough to feel you yourself aren't getting played? I did sometimes, and sometimes I didn't. You know they're "exploring other options" too if you're not committing, it would be foolish to think otherwise. Can your ego handle that, and can you deal with the inherent insecurity that a girl who agrees to a setup like that for any period might also one day decide to cut you off on a dime in favor of (hopefully) some beta who is willing to hand everything over? The tradeoff is that at least once I most definitely felt played. That's the breaks.

Part of the problem I have with traditional exclusive LTRs "these days" is that frankly, I simply have little confidence most young Western white women in 2k16 will hold up their end of the bargain. When definitely one and at least one more possible out of the ~10 lays I got in the last year were with cheating hoes, and God knows how many of the OKCupid chicks I didn't close with but were cagey about their personal history, grabbed my cock and slobbered my face in the park or in my car and then vanished forever, you start thinking "Shit, I really don't trust any of 'em. I bet I'm going to give away the farm and within six months they'll be going on Tinder behind my back and some other guy will be me. They're all hoes, at least let's be honest about it from the start."

Should I swallow what may very well be a lie, in the hope of preserving my ego? Let's just see each other once a week. Leave your phone in the car, I don't need to see who bought you those flowers or that new bag. I know you keep showing up because a guy who throws down like I do but won't give you what you want is like a drug, anyway. Always craving your fix.

I learned about the "secret society" to both my pleasure and chagrin. A lot of chicks definitely aren't getting what they think they want out of their LTRs, that's for sure. They're 30 or pushing it, been with the same schlub for 5 years, they've read 50 Shades of Grey and feel cheated. They want the Dominant Daddy player who treats them like a whore mystery-man experience before the door shuts forever.

But I'm getting older, and while it's been fun I can't keep this up forever. So, questions always nag at me.

(10-27-2016 08:51 AM)philosophical_recovery Wrote:  

[*]Bargaining of any sort - if you reach this point, you seem to have already lost

Biggest lesson I've learned. No relation is ever 50-50, women have a lot of power, and most guys that I know in long term relationships of any sort appear, to my casual observation, to be on losing end of the see-saw. The only way to keep it even slightly tilted in your favor is refusal to negotiate attraction. If she's attracted to me and I'm attracted to her, we enjoy each other's company, and we're treating each other with at least the appropriate amount of respect I think guy and girl in a non-committed relationship should have for each other, that should be enough. But they'll always push, and you have to be willing to say "No", or walk if it comes to it. It's the only way to hold your frame against the tide.

[MY DETROIT PLAYAS]

As I see it the problem with bargaining is that inevitably someone will drop the ball and the other party will feel taken advantage of. At that point, what happens? Does she bitch and moan? Behave like a petulant child? Or does she try to employ her communication skills? Try to find a middle ground? Most chicks would hold grudges only to have it all come fluttering out when you track mud in the house after she's "just mopped the kitchen" It's not the big ticket issues that are corrosive to LTR's it's the small day to day misunderstandings. Sure, you can try to reframe an interaction, a conversation or her mindframe but at what point does the maintenance you apply to baseline strategy become too costly and exhausting?

In retrospect, this reframing should be done on the front end before advancing into the deeper phases of a LTR. Once entering into the thicket the weeds become too great and grow too rapidly.

[XPQ22]

(10-27-2016 09:49 AM)MY DETROIT PLAYAS Wrote:  

In retrospect, this reframing should be done on the front end before advancing into the deeper phases of a LTR. Once entering into the thicket the weeds become too great and grow too rapidly.

Yep. Playing shit to the left has to begin right from the start. But I know the cost is that some girls are going to rapidly drop out of the running when they see where the frame is headed, particularly when they're older. I guess that's for the best, but it always costs time at the very least.

[Dalaran1991]

I think its very hard to go over this without taking into account your own personality type, energy levels, etc.

I do need to preface that before getting into any LTR, or LTR talk, one must absolutely knows basic game as well as advanced screening. You can have A+ game but if you sack up with a girl who has no business being in a LTR, then all bets are off. I firmly believe that most LTR problems and disadvantages come from people coupling up with shitty girls who ruin their life. These are dead on arrivals LTR that Jariel spoke of, which are too numerous today.

For a LTR to work, the girl needs to be able to admire and respect you and herself, among other things.

Now, about LTR. Some people love the chase and live for it, some hold their personal freedom very sacred, in which case I dont think they should do a LTR, except for a "test run" to get the feel.

Some people enjoy the hunt like they would a glass of wine, but would rather devote their energy elsewhere. Some enjoy deep connection with women and prefers quality time, some just have a deep romantic side. In these cases a LTR would clearly benefit them.

So I guess:

Pro:
-Regular on demand sex with compatible, compliant partner

-Stability + support from a good gal, which frees you to devote energy to other things

-Profound, deep connection / companionship. I do think some of the most warming things in the world can come from a loving woman: sew and alter your clothes, weave a scarf for you, iron your clothes, etc. But no bitches are allowed in my kitchen however.

In one of my first LTR my ex bought me shit ton of clothes and stuff, which I used to game other girls... I was an ass.

-Social proof: having a beautiful girl visibly devoted to you does wonder for social proof. Society approves, strangers treat you better, etc.

-Introspection: the right LTR reveals a lot about you than you know about yourself. Its also a good trial run for those who would like to start a family.

-Good networking: pretty girls often have good connections.

-Force you to develop tight game.

Cons:

-Time and maintenance: I would not put this as cons because if you screen right she wouldnt be high maintenance. You are expected to put in work however. For me, its a lot less work and €€€ than going hunting.

-Mentally taxing: just avoid talking politic and philosophy with your girl... Eventually however she will gravitate toward your own beliefs, but avoid focusing on it. I might be wrong, but I've found that the most pleasant women aren't the most "educated"

-Intrusion of privacy: while I love my girl, I do not and will not live with her. Period. And I do believe moving in with a girl you dont consider marrying is a like shoving a morning star up your ass.

-Exclusivity / cant fuck other hoes: gray area. My game is not good enough to speak on this.

-Might compete with your other hobbies: again this goes back to screening. You should be with a girl who like the same things as you do.

-Relationship game: drama, social circle, trust issues, etc. Might be a pro if it forces your game to evolve.

-Break ups: every LTR has a shelf life. No matter how you cut in, part of you gets ripped away when it ends.

My 2 cents

[Wreckingball]

Upsides
You will have good company and hopefully good experiences
Extend social Circle and meet new people
Safer rawdogging - It's never safe
Learn the true nature of women - Both an upside and downside. Women are exceptional at emotionally blackmailing and guilt tripping.

Downsides
Your "me" time starts to be her "me" time. Especially you start to live together. - I rarely have time to do what I want, most of the stuff I do, is with her. Which is fine, unless I want to play starcraft or do something else alone.
There is a high degree of probability that she will not like your friends.
Both of you have your own personalities and different needs, and they will eventually clash.
Women are emotionally very needy, and we don't have time for that shit. - My girl has the tendency of starting a "fight" over stupid shit at 2300 and prolonging through the night. I fell for it twice.
You never truly know if she is in the long con or not.
Weight gain (and not the good one) - Sharing food, going out to eat.. even cooking at home stopped being as healthy as it should. I got fatter, she got skinnier.
Less interest in sex - I suppose you just start showing affection some other way. I have googled this and appears to be normal.

[General Stalin]

I feel like this is mostly self-explanatory. Really no content to add to OP question that others haven't already said.

As for LTR game in general, I don't consider myself any kind of expert at it. I've failed at most every long term relationship I've been in to date in my adult life aside from one that ended mutually. My heart has been hardened by a history of LTR's that left me hurt so nowadays I tend to keep myself at arm's length from women emotionally. I expect relationships to fail so I don't let myself get all to deep into them. All I can do is speculate based on my past experiences and lessons learned, so here goes:

-If you are going to live with a woman, don't get a place with[i] her or mover into [i]her place. Stay in control. Have her move in with you, or buy a house under your own name that you both can live in. No only is this just smart economics, but it maintains the frame that you are indeed the "man of the house" and run the ship. It's your world, she's just living in it. Of course let her decorate and make it look nice (women are far better at this than men) so it feels like home to both of you, but at the end of the day you're the captain.

-Let it be known what you want and what you expect early on. This will make for less ambiguity down the line. If she doesn't want to play by the rules then show her the door before you get too attached and decide to let shit slide. If she decides to stay and place nice then game on.

-It's okay to "be beta" once in a while. I think one of the biggest problems a lot of men new to the red pill tend to have is calibration. They pull way too hard the opposite direction and come off as bitter, stubborn, mean, and difficult to deal with. A lot of women will put up with it for a while, but it doesn't hold up. I think of days where I was a chump when trying to deal with women and letting my LTR's go off the rails - if I had just a little bit of game, just a drop or two of red pill, it would have been great. You don't need to be a shit heel, just have a spine and know when to draw boundaries and stick to them. Sweet but firm. Calibrated.

-Realize that things you are uncomfortable with are not going to get better, they will only get worse, or at best be an ever-present annoyance. Come to grips early on if issues with a girl you can't change can be forgiven/overlooked. If she has males friends and you don't like it, well you can't tell her to get rid of them (you can try but good luck) so either give her the door or deal with it. You don't like her sexual past? You can't change it so either forget about it or move on. Etc.

There's a start.

[churros]

In an LTR, I have much clearer focus on work. 100% of my energy goes into it. One shouldn't underestimate how much goes into establishing and maintaining a harem. Nevertheless, for several months of the year, I require fresh pussy. Boredom is inevitable. So some kind of balance is the optimal situation, at least for me.

[DonnyGately]

(09-09-2011 10:37 PM)UgSlayer Wrote:  

I know this board is all about getting notches and all that, but let's not ignore the benefits of being in a LTR with a top grade girl/woman who respects you and your masculinity who will do whatever you say. ....

Being a player and being in an LTR both have its benefits.

Bingo. The upside from a good LTR is huge. The downside is not getting the hot fresh bangs regularly. Unless she likes 3somes. And I think most LTRs can be converted into at least the occasional 'Oh, we were so drunk!' 3some.

Exploring your kinky side is much easier with an LTR also.