[nomadbrah]

This thread is for news and discussion about antrophology and archeology. This is a rather slow subforum and individual threads don't get that much traction. I am thinking this thread could be for all the threads concerning everything from "ancient aliens" to new findings in genetic research and archeology.

[nomadbrah]

Norwegian Retiree Stumbles Upon World's Oldest Boat Depiction

https://sputniknews.com/viral/2017092810...dest-boat/

Quote:

Rock carvings accidentally discovered by a Norwegian pensioner have become a scientific sensation of international significance, as they are thought to be the world's oldest portrayal of a vessel.
Earlier this summer, retired geologist Ingvar Lindahl reported some petroglyphs he had found at Valle in Efjorden, Nordland County. The true significance of the find, however, was only revealed later upon closer look by fellow archaeologists.

Quote:

Situated some 70 meters above sea level and dating back over ten thousand years, the unique petroglyphs are believed to be the world's oldest rock carvings depicting a boat.

"This here is exceptional. It's really a world sensation that will go into the history books in one way or another," archeologist Jan Magne Gjerde from the University of Tromsø told NRK.

At about four meters long, the boat is carved in rock with two-three centimeters wide lines, but is weather-beaten and barely visible to the naked eye, only emerging when lit by direct sunlight from the side.
"You must have the light at the right angle to see the figures. They have been dated through the change of sea level. In the Stone Age, the sea was higher up, so we can date the rock carvings through elevations of land. This is how we see that these are between 10,000 and 11,000 years old," Jan Magne Gjerde explained, arguing that the boat is surprisingly well-preserved for a carving that old.

Associate Professor David Vogt from the Cultural History Museum at the University of Oslo called the find spectacular.

My commentary

It's very interesting that we find depictions of boat culture as old as 8000bc. This is way before the indo-european invasions and suggests a marine culture existed in the neolithic.

It suggests a possible greater connection between the European peoples at this point, since it is much easier to use rivers for transport than walking.

The Norwegian adventurer Thor Heyerdahl believed that a link existed between rock carvings in Azerbaijan (Caspic Sea area) and the Norse boating culture. This fits the timeline, but more work to be done here.

[RoastBeefCurtains4Me]

Great thread.

Why do they say the sea was higher? Overall, sea level was about 100m lower at that time than now? I know some area have experienced uplifts since the weight of the ice age glaciers was lifted, but I wouldn't expect land to rise enough to overcome 100 meters of rising oceans in 10000 years. As I understand it, vast areas of northern Europe were above water at that time but are now drowned.

[nomadbrah]

(09-30-2017 10:42 PM)RoastBeefCurtains4Me Wrote:  

Great thread.

Why do they say the sea was higher? Overall, sea level was about 100m lower at that time than now? I know some area have experienced uplifts since the weight of the ice age glaciers was lifted, but I wouldn't expect land to rise enough to overcome 100 meters of rising oceans in 10000 years. As I understand it, vast areas of northern Europe were above water at that time but are now drowned.

I'm not sure.

During the ice age, the sea level was for sure lower, but as the ice melted it might have been deposited in the ground and slowly seeped into the ocean, so it's possible that the fjords and other inland waterways were higher.

[WhatTheFuck]

Anthropology and archaeology

Thread should show up in a search now

I'm pretty interested in this stuff though I'll post more later

[sterling_archer]

I will post later something regarding "ancient aliens" if that is ok.

[nomadbrah]

(10-01-2017 01:00 AM)sterling_archer Wrote:  

I will post later something regarding "ancient aliens" if that is ok.

That's ok but be prepared to have it be criticized and try to stick to the A&A part and not the conspiracy. Otherwise the thread will turn into a conspiracy theory thread. That said, bring it on.

[sterling_archer]

Now when I look at it again, I think mine post would not have much connection with original thread. It would be about different interpretation of Old Testament. When I read earlier today that you mentioned in first post ancient aliens, I thought first that post would fit into some kind of "alternative anthropology", but I am not sure anymore so I don't want to dilute the thread.

[YoungBlade]

Here's a cool (restored) image of a dragon made by pre-columbian native americans.



The creature is called 'Piasa', and occasionally in English as the 'underwater panther.' Crazy how it looks like a european dragon or the greek manticore.

The image is located in Illinois, and apparently myths about it are present from the great lakes down the mississippi.

[sterling_archer]

Cultures from around the world had dragon myths.

[ExploringReality]

(10-02-2017 09:01 PM)YoungBlade Wrote:  

Here's a cool (restored) image of a dragon made by pre-columbian native americans.



The creature is called 'Piasa', and occasionally in English as the 'underwater panther.' Crazy how it looks like a european dragon or the greek manticore.

The image is located in Illinois, and apparently myths about it are present from the great lakes down the mississippi.

How interesting that it is called underwater panther. Currently I'm watching Jordan Peterson's lectures called "Personality and its Transformations", where he makes the argument that dragons personify all that is dangerous and menacing to humans, and so they are present in so many cultures origination myths. What is interesting about the translation of Piasa is that it being "underwater" and a "panther", apart for the dragon-like appearance, is that it ticks Peterson's boxes for being in this category of myth. As far as I know, panthers are one of the most dangerous animals, and if you were to see one, you were almost guaranteed to be dead; and the theme of watery things, and even more if they are "under", is that they are menacing per se, when you are above a huge mass of water you don't know what might come to get you. Really cool find!

[sterling_archer]

Did he explain another viewpoint on dragons, such as very wise and intelligent beings, not necessary wanting to kill you? In far east we encounter those type of myths, but in west they are almost always the enemy.

[nomadbrah]

Both the Native-Americans and pre-Indo-European groups lived in Siberia.

Mixing took place with 100% certainty there before the natives made it to America. It's possible the dragons have shared ancestry.

[ExploringReality]

(10-03-2017 02:37 AM)sterling_archer Wrote:  

Did he explain another viewpoint on dragons, such as very wise and intelligent beings, not necessary wanting to kill you? In far east we encounter those type of myths, but in west they are almost always the enemy.

Not so far, but I will provide a possible explanation. Peterson's point is that each time you confront something dangerous or troubling about yourself or the world, providing you emerge victoriously, you will learn something very valuable. Thus, each time a mythological hero defeats a dragon, he wins something of great power or value. Now, and admitting that my knowledge of eastern myths is close to none, I could make some assumptions about why dragons there are perceived as wise teachers.

The western attitude towards spiritual problems is combative, you have to either win salvation through sacrifices or to conquer the olympus through sheer force (a luciferian attitude). Meanwhile, in the East, both taoism and buddhism, but specially taoism, remain in contemplative silence before the problems at hand, listening, waiting. The attitudes are indeed very different between the intellectual struggles of saint Thomas and the simple and somewhat nihilistic stories of taoist books.

Extrapolating this to dragons, the western man will fight them (the problems) to death, both through big personal sacrifices and thanks to his power; the eastern man will, in contrast, will contemplate them as a pacient student, listening to and then using, the valuable lessons that the dragon could share.

[sterling_archer]

Very interesting, thank you for sharing this.

On the other note (even though its not place nor time) but its regarding dragons, one occultist once told me that dragons exist but they are not or they ever were beings of flesh and blood. He described them as some kind of entities from another plane of reality. Here I draw parallels to snake like entities that can be interacted with during Ayahuasca ceremonies and that tell you something (not kill you). In that case, it makes sense that all those cultures who had experimented with accessing those other realities interacted with dragons.

[nomadbrah]

Mainstream belief is that dragons are unearthed dinosaur fossils.

What would you make of this 2000bc:

[sterling_archer]

If I lived in that time, I could possible shout "dragons!" everywhere, but I am not sure. Regarding dinosaurs, there are a lot of stories regarding dinosaur-human connection, for example Mayans supposedly made little figurines picturing dinosaurs. Although I think they were debunked as hoaxes.

[YoungBlade]

^ regarding ancient depictions of dinosaurs, here's a stegosaur from Cambodia.



Given the unlikelihood of such a carving considering the geographic location of stegosaur species in relation to Cambodia, it has since been theorized that the carving is actually a rhinoceros, boar, or some other large jungle mammal with a leafy backdrop.

[nomadbrah]

(10-03-2017 11:06 AM)YoungBlade Wrote:  

^ regarding ancient depictions of dinosaurs, here's a stegosaur from Cambodia.



Given the unlikelihood of such a carving considering the geographic location of stegosaur species in relation to Cambodia, it has since been theorized that the carving is actually a rhinoceros, boar, or some other large jungle mammal with a leafy backdrop.

Personally I am not enough of a fan of "ancient aliens" to just go with any odd semblance without additional proof.

Ancient history is interesting enough without having to make up stuff.

The oddest story I believe in is Atlantis.

[YoungBlade]

^ care to elaborate?

The most interesting theory I've heard is that Atlantis is a description of the Milky Way.

https://atala.fr

Though this also purports that Neanderthals could travel the Galaxy via magic, so outside the scope of this thread.

[sterling_archer]

I actually think Atlantis was thalassocratic empire like the Phoenician one was. So no advanced continent, BUT advanced civilization in the way they had compass, sextant and monocular during the ancient history, together with sturdy galleys.

[nomadbrah]

I think it's plausible enough to not outright dismiss that Atlantis might have been somewhere on the Atlantic ridge.



The thing is, when the so called Cro-Magnon cultures - the first culturally modern man - show up, they do so suddenly and only in the West.



If I look at this map, I'd think Cro-Magnon was a coastal, seafaring culture, wouldn't you agree?

At this time, all other humans are primitive, while Cro-Magnon creates magnificent art, does brain surgery, builds permanent houses and weaves cloth.

Cro-Magnon is also far different from other races of men at this time. He is taller, stronger, bigger brained. A larger brain than any living population.

[sterling_archer]

All because he started to induce psilocybin mushrooms into his diet. Terence McKenna explained this so called "stoned ape" theory. Basically, when pre historic man started to eat these mushrooms, he started to get visions, and suddenly developed art, burial rituals, better weapons and such. Of course bigger brain came out to be because of that.

[nomadbrah]

Woman from Thera, Minoan civilization, compared to Sardinian women (most Minoan DNA today):





Notice the raised nose and protruding chin.

[Sisyphus]

(10-03-2017 03:38 PM)sterling_archer Wrote:  

All because he started to induce psilocybin mushrooms into his diet. Terence McKenna explained this so called "stoned ape" theory. Basically, when pre historic man started to eat these mushrooms, he started to get visions, and suddenly developed art, burial rituals, better weapons and such. Of course bigger brain came out to be because of that.

He (McKenna) also claimed that ingestion of psilocybin mushrooms is responsible for human evolution, reasoning that eating mushrooms increases visual acuity and therefore allowed men to hunt more successfully. It's a nice theory, but there's no scientific basis for this whatsoever. Eating mushrooms improves your eye sight? Maybe improves your ability to see inanimate objects swirl and breathe, not sure how helpful that would be while tracking down a buffalo unless throwing your atlatl into its aura would improve your kill rate.

He also claimed that eating mushrooms led to more reproduction through enhanced sexual arousal. Again a bit hard to believe - lower primates don't have a high enough sex drive? Why would this lead to enhanced fitness?

I enjoy alternative history and I'm open to different interpretations, but in this case I'm not sold.

Good primary sources and discussion here: http://www.lycaeum.org/~sputnik/McKenna/...heory.html