[petermcsage]

Hi,

I am trying to weigh factors that can help the exploration phase of this idea (moving to either country).

I am about to become location-independent, so the job market is not a factor for me.

As far as I know, both places show intolerance to migrants, which is A-OK for me (Paris, where I live, is a shithole, having had heavy immigration from the '60s - check out this link if you dare:

https://www.store-muslim.com/boissons/34...ameau.html

I also know Poland is heavily catholic, which is also A-OK with me, I am a Catholic myself.

So all in all Poland is a traditional country, great.

The Czech Republic attracts me more for being less "eastern" and more "sophisticated" (in principle - I have not travelled there yet), but what about the rest? Are they religious? Can they be described as traditional, or as traditional as Poland?

The last thing I want is to find myself in a cheap replica of a western country - might as well not move.

[teddy bear]

Poland is not as catholic as before, especially among the younger population. I know only handful of people who are attending church more than twice per year - older people though still are very conservative.

[petermcsage]

I see - but the general atmosphere can be described as conservative or traditional, right?

[PragueDude]

A cheap replica of a Western country.

Move to Bruntal, Czech Republic, furthest away from the west you can imagine .

[icrus]

Georgia

Armenia

Both very conservative and Christian. Georgia has even a fairly mediterranean feel to it.

Why someone wants to move to one of the most atheist countries in Europe when he seems to value how religious the native population is is totally beyond me.

As is why he would ask for pen warriors' advice on this instead of exploring the countries in person before considering moving there.

[petermcsage]

Thanks for the info.

-> Why someone wants to move to one of the most atheist countries in Europe when he seems to value how religious the native population is is totally beyond me.

Well, that's why i am asking. I did not know they were one of the most atheist countries in Europe.

-> As is why he would ask for pen warriors' advice on this instead of exploring the countries in person before considering moving there.

I will - but some places are beyond hope ( France and Sweden come to mind) unbeknownst to the uninitiated. Asking first could save time & money.

-> Georgia
-> Armenia
-> Both very conservative and Christian. Georgia has even a fairly Mediterranean feel to it.

Good on paper, but in the long term, I am thinking of doing business locally - maybe CZ or Poland would be better for that? I don't know how the economy is in Georgia or Armenia.

[petermcsage]

(09-19-2017 04:23 AM)PragueDude Wrote:  

A cheap replica of a Western country.

Move to Bruntal, Czech Republic, furthest away from the west you can imagine .

Thanks praguedude.

Can you elaborate on the religion thing? The reason why I am asking is that once a country is something like 50% atheist, it does not take long for the "cosmopolitan elites" to take root and screw it all up, for good.

[Nowak]

(09-19-2017 05:17 AM)petermcsage Wrote:  

(09-19-2017 04:23 AM)PragueDude Wrote:  

A cheap replica of a Western country.

Move to Bruntal, Czech Republic, furthest away from the west you can imagine .

Thanks praguedude.

Can you elaborate on the religion thing? The reason why I am asking is that once a country is something like 50% atheist, it does not take long for the "cosmopolitan elites" to take root and screw it all up, for good.

One can be atheistic and also some what ethno nationalist. Czech Republic and parts of former East Germany are good examples of this. But yeah, more poz in Czechia than in Poland, but not that much more.

[petermcsage]

Thanks Nowak,

A little poz is still ok for me, I think it's a good tradeoff for being almost in the centre of Europe.

The reason for also considering Poland is that they are so proud in their dealings with the EU, uncucked if you will.
Also I think Roosh lives there, maybe because it's so cheap

[Lunostrelki]

I have a better impression of Slovakia than the Czech Republic. The language is roughly the same as Czech (might even be a bit easier) but my limited interactions with Slovaks show me a more religious and less pretentious nation. It's probably a good thing they separated in '93.

[petermcsage]

Good to know...i'll make sure to check it out.

[John Michael Kane]

Czech Republic has one of the highest rates of atheists and agnostics in the world. If you're looking for a sweet Catholic girl (like I am) then Slovakia or Poland would be better choices. Not to say you couldn't find a nice girl in the Czech Republic, but if you care about one that cares about her faith, the odds would be a lot longer. I know some Slovak people here in the United States, they take their faith very seriously. The communists tried to destroy their culture, but they fought back and are very proud of who they are, just like how the Polish resisted both the Germans and the Russians when they tried to push them around.

[petermcsage]

Uhm...i had no idea...

A friend of mine married a nice Czech girl, and she just kind of dozes during mass, not trying to impose her atheism on him or the children.

My problem with atheism is that it leaves a country defenseless against corrupting influences, so as soon as some entity (think Soros for example) decides that the country is "ripe for change", it can go downhill very fast - see Ukraine as an example.

[petermcsage]

In the meantime I found this:

People in the Czech Republic are interested in politics, but they do not want to be associated with membership in a particular party. Similarly, they are interested in spirituality, but without belonging to any particular church.

from here:
http://www.praguefellowship.cz/pages/Def...?tabid=557

which confirms to me what Nowak says - makes me feel very good about the country, not wanting to be classified by anything but being a Czech.

[Jungle]

(09-18-2017 03:35 PM)petermcsage Wrote:  

So all in all Poland is a traditional country, great.

The Czech Republic attracts me more for being less "eastern" and more "sophisticated" (in principle - I have not travelled there yet), but what about the rest? Are they religious? Can they be described as traditional, or as traditional as Poland?

You like Czech for being less "eastern" but then mention that you want more traditional? Perhaps I misunderstood.

I would choose Poland over Czech. None of these countries are any more or less sophisticated than one another, there is high society in any country. If you want a "sophisticated" culture then what matters is your social status in that country, generally speaking, if you have money you can access this group easier.

Therefore, I would choose Ukraine over Poland, you will have access to a high quality life for less money, because you are earning foreign currency.

(09-18-2017 03:35 PM)petermcsage Wrote:  

The last thing I want is to find myself in a cheap replica of a western country - might as well not move.

Czech is a cheap relica of western europe. Poland is less western than Czech, and slightly more traditional. And Ukraine is even more eastern, and more traditional.

Therefore, using your aforementioned parameters I would choose Ukraine over Poland, and Poland over Czech.

[Pointer]

Generally speaking smaller towns and villages are more conservative. This applies everywhere, not just in EE. Religion doesn't really make a difference, I would say that Slavic people as a whole are more reserved and conservative but not necessarily more religious. Sex before marriage is not a big deal in Poland so I wouldn't call it heavily catholic. Also don't expect to find many virgins
I find Czechs much less friendly than Poles, I would go so far to call them anti-social. That's why I wouldn't want to live in the Czech Republic. Slovaks are much cooler than their Czech brothers but the country itself is nothing special.

[petermcsage]

(09-21-2017 05:18 PM)Pointer Wrote:  

I find Czechs much less friendly than Poles, I would go so far to call them anti-social. That's why I wouldn't want to live in the Czech Republic.

Interesting information...at this point a 2-month stay in CZ and PL becomes necessary.

[petermcsage]

(09-21-2017 02:20 PM)Jungle Wrote:  

You like Czech for being less "eastern" but then mention that you want more traditional? Perhaps I misunderstood.

True, there is a slight contradiction between wanting traditional and "sophisticated". Probably I really wanted to say "traditional and friendly". In my mind, a 100% Slavic country, say Belarus, might not really accept a foreigner in the long term. I don't really know.
So for me it would be a matter of finding a balance between a country not being corrupt like France and still accepting of a foreigner.

In this sense, Poland is better, as you say, being the catholic religion (as opposed to orthodox religion) the "western" element.

(09-21-2017 02:20 PM)Jungle Wrote:  

Therefore, using your aforementioned parameters I would choose Ukraine over Poland, and Poland over Czech.

I agree with Poland, but I have a problem with Ukraine.

The political situation in Ukraine seems to be very volatile, and the economy also does not seem to be doing well at all. From my past experiences (I was in Dominican Republic for three years) immigrants end up doing business locally, so when the economy is really bad, they finally leave, broke.

[Stallion]

Czech are not only atheist, most of them are also "anti Christian".

For centuries the Christians (Habsburgs) have been the foreign invaders occupying the Czechs, and imposing their religion on them by force. Even if that is long past, I can still feel some sort of national resentment. For them Christians and oppressors are synonyms.

But the Czechs, despite being atheist, are also extremely conservative in the political and social sense.

[petermcsage]

(09-22-2017 10:29 AM)Stallion Wrote:  

But the Czechs, despite being atheist, are also extremely conservative in the political and social sense.

Uhmm...what an unusual combination...in any case the conservative part is good enough for me.

But...will a serious, hard working foreigner be accepted in the long term ? (see the anti-social post above)
I have heard that in Japan, for example, that is not the case - you will be forever a non-Japanese.

[Dkby]

(09-22-2017 10:40 AM)petermcsage Wrote:  

But...will a serious, hard working foreigner be accepted in the long term ? (see the anti-social post above)

If you learn the language and look like other people there (read: white skin), then yes. If you want to get through just with english, then you will stay foreigner forever.

[petermcsage]

(09-24-2017 06:06 AM)Dkby Wrote:  

(09-22-2017 10:40 AM)petermcsage Wrote:  

But...will a serious, hard working foreigner be accepted in the long term ? (see the anti-social post above)

If you learn the language and look like other people there (read: white skin), then yes. If you want to get through just with english, then you will stay foreigner forever.

I am white and I am taking Czech classes...it's my last winter in multikulti Paris...

[Jungle]

(09-22-2017 12:16 AM)petermcsage Wrote:  

(09-21-2017 02:20 PM)Jungle Wrote:  

You like Czech for being less "eastern" but then mention that you want more traditional? Perhaps I misunderstood.

True, there is a slight contradiction between wanting traditional and "sophisticated". Probably I really wanted to say "traditional and friendly". In my mind, a 100% Slavic country, say Belarus, might not really accept a foreigner in the long term. I don't really know.
So for me it would be a matter of finding a balance between a country not being corrupt like France and still accepting of a foreigner.

As @Dkby said, if you learn the language and look like a local you'll be accepted just fine. I'd take it step further and say that even if you weren't white, as long as you speak the language you'd be "accepted". Ukraine is not quite an ethno-state like Japan.

Perhaps what matters more about being accepted is whether you yourself will have a lot of love for the local culture. Choose the culture which you individually are smitten with the most. I've been to most of Eastern Europe, including Czech, Slovak, Hungry, Croatia, Slovenia, Poland, Ukraine, Moldova, Russia etc... and even lived for many months in EE too... and in my opinion, the countries that are more east, more soviet, and a bit less developed economically are much better than "central" europe, in particular because they are just so different to the west.... vive la différence

Looking into the future, as globalism continues, EE will remain distinctively traditional for longer than central europe, this is a major advantage because Czech for example may become more and more western, remember they share a border with Germany, therefore it could be kind of pointless why you would leave France in the first place.

It's great that you're learning Czech already, and I say this only as the devil's advocate - but why not learn Russian instead - with Czech you are limited to a small country... with Russian you can use it in an entire region and hundreds of millions of people.

Also, just a caveat, in general - the girls are better in EE than central europe, this has been covered multiple times in this forum.

(09-22-2017 12:16 AM)petermcsage Wrote:  

I agree with Poland, but I have a problem with Ukraine.

The political situation in Ukraine seems to be very volatile, and the economy also does not seem to be doing well at all. From my past experiences (I was in Dominican Republic for three years) immigrants end up doing business locally, so when the economy is really bad, they finally leave, broke.

Yes Ukraine's economy is currently shithouse, but the worst has already happened... this is an opportunity, rather than a problem, in my opinion. Ukrainians are having a boom in the IT sector, which is a massive growth industry for the future. Also they have lots of fertile arable land for agriculture. Ukraine will follow Poland in its economic development, mark my words.

Also, you mentioned you are location-independent, so having a dodgy local economy wouldn't affect you right? And having favourable exchange rates would also be good as you're earning Euros right?

[goldenhinde]

I'm surprised that Czech Republic gets so little love here, while Poland and Slovakia get away with much more positive statements.

I'd choose Czech Republic anytime over Poland or Slovakia, not even a question mark in mind.

Slovakia is okay, but the only two major cities of the country, Bratislava and Kosice (which are in fact the only two of any touristic/economic importance) are a mind-numbing 6-hour ride on overcrowded trains apart from each other (always overcrowded thanks to the Slovak governments introduction of free train rides for university students and the elderly pensioners). Apart from that, it's either boring flat countryside, unimportant and boring small towns lacking any architectural beauty, or the Tatra mountains if you're into that (but they lost some 30% of their trees after a big storm some years ago). The capital city of Bratislava is not the most beautiful or sophisticated one in Europe, feels more like a suburb of nearby Vienna. Kosice in the Eastern part is much more beautiful, but is in the middle of nowhere, and no matter in which direction you'll travel, you'll need up to 6 hours to get to the next really sizeable city.

Poland is much too spread out, its confusing train networks sucks, it takes forever to get anywhee, the language is by far harder than any other Slavic language I've every tried to learn (and I tried all of them just for the fun of it), the food is bland in contrast to the Czech one, has a lot of really really ugly large cities with centres that have been mainly destroyed during World War II (starts with Warsaw and gets as bad as Katowice or Szczecin), the few rebuilt and beautiful cities such as Gdansk are tourist hotspots that are in summer as bad as Florence or Barcelona in terms of overcrowding and tourist disneyland, and the landscape of the entire country is as boring as it gets, with the only really foresty/mountainey parts being at the border to Czech Republic and Slovakia. To make it even worse, east of the country are Belarus and the Russian Kaliningrad, countries/areas that you need a visa for entering, which limits your freedom of movement if you like to freely roam around all neighboring countries on weekends.

Czech Republic, on the other hand, has it all: a large, cosmopolitan metropolis (Prague) that can keep you busy for months with its culture and girls (especially a large number of Russian and Ukrainian girls in addition to the already hot Czech ones), a large number of other cities sized more than 100,000 people with a relatively good economy and interesting stuff going on (Plzen, Olomouc, Ceske Budejovice to name the beautiful ones; Usti and Ostrava to name the interesting, but not so beautiful ones), an excellent, dirt-cheap and dense train network that gets you anywhere in acceptable amounts of time and usually runs frequent, one of the best pub/restaurant culture in the world if you're into either beer or hearty, meat-based dishes or ideally into both of them, relatively close proximity to other countries and large cities such as Vienna, Budapest, Dresden, Berlin, Munich, Nuremberg, etc., beautiful lush and mostly green landscapes that never get boring with deep forests, hills, mountains, lakes, hundreds of beautiful and architecturally preserved and worth-visiting small towns, castles and palaces, the women are hot as fuck and just everything in this country feels exactly as it should be.

My vote for Czech Republic, big time. Take it from a guy who's been there 38 times.

[petermcsage]

(09-24-2017 09:29 AM)Jungle Wrote:  

Also, you mentioned you are location-independent, so having a dodgy local economy wouldn't affect you right? And having favourable exchange rates would also be good as you're earning Euros right?

I firmly believe that every immigrant will, after 2/3 years, deal with the local economy. I don't think you can live in a place and never trade in it. So if you can't, you will end up leaving, which i do not want to do.

(09-24-2017 09:29 AM)Jungle Wrote:  

Looking into the future, as globalism continues, EE will remain distinctively traditional for longer than central europe, this is a major advantage because Czech for example may become more and more western, remember they share a border with Germany, therefore it could be kind of pointless why you would leave France in the first place.

That's a point, for sure. I made a note of everything you said about CZ. I will have to go there and see how far they are into westernization.

(09-24-2017 09:29 AM)Jungle Wrote:  

It's great that you're learning Czech already, and I say this only as the devil's advocate - but why not learn Russian instead - with Czech you are limited to a small country... with Russian you can use it in an entire region and hundreds of millions of people.

Yes Ukraine's economy is currently shithouse, but the worst has already happened... this is an opportunity, rather than a problem, in my opinion. Ukrainians are having a boom in the IT sector, which is a massive growth industry for the future. Also they have lots of fertile arable land for agriculture. Ukraine will follow Poland in its economic development, mark my words.

I have 2 problems with Russia and Ukraine.

First, and please no offense taken by anyone, I regard both places as places where I will not really be able to talk about philosophy and culture with many people - let's say unsophisticated places. How do I know? Well, in the worst way - Russians and Ukrainians I see here are one level up from simians, both male and female. I know, it's stupid to generalize, probably they send the worst here, but I don't have any other way to know until I travel.

But the second problem, and biggest, it that I believe that the American Deep State won't let go of Ukraine and Russia, they'll get their war. I don't see peace and prosperity for both places in the short and medium terms.