[Libertas]

After a long while improving my content generally, I've discovered that my biggest weakness currently in daygame is closing as strong as possible. So basically, my approaches and general conversation is strong, but my closing could use some work.

Of course we all know to take any interaction as far as it can go but when that can't happen during the day (usually), or your logistics aren't optimal, what are some good ways you guys close to crystallize the interaction and increase the chance of a second meeting?

The thing I'm currently trying to test right now comes from the Zeigarnik effect or a mystery story - that people put priority on things that are unfinished and want to solve the mystery. This is a great way to command attention after the interaction because memories will be stronger (there's a lot of literature on this, but Pre-Suasion is perhaps the best and most accessible book for it). Implementation has been slow however, it can be difficult to make that kind of thing up on the fly, especially if your rate of approaching is sparse (as mine has been lately, this summer has been something of a dud).

Do any of you try something similar? Or do you have any other ways to close a daygame interaction stronger than "give me your number and let's go to so and so, etc."? I'd like to hear them.

[Dantes]

Good to hear you are progressing with Daygame.

You might want to provide more details about your approaches (e.g. Direct vs Indirect, the type of girl you are approaching).

You are right about making girls feel things :

Excitement
Frustration
Fear



Theory will only take you so far but it provides a framework on how to start.

Ultimately, you have to develop your own style and this will come with experience.

I think the stories you are referring to are more useful on dates for eliciting emotions and portraying yourself in a certain light.

During the initial approach girls feel more based on your:

Strong eye contact
Posture
Vibe
Looks/fashion

These non verbals are more important than the spoken word during the approach. Later on, your words will have more of an impact.

Again, more information will be helpful but my sense is you are overestimating how well the conversation is going probably because you are doing Indirect.

A number close and a plan for a future date should be a natural by-product of the approach. If you aren't getting numbers than the interaction is not going as well as you think. This often happens when you use an Indirect model because girls may think you are just engaging in a friendly chat as opposed to them
Feeling attracted, interested and intrigued.

That's why I prefer Direct because you know very quickly if it's on or not and you are authentic in your intention.

Good luck with your progress and keep us posted.

[Libertas]

No, I don't usually go indirect. I hate thinking of indirect openers usually. I admittedly could use some work sexualizing the interactions a bit more after the initial approach, but I'm not sure that's the same topic.

The problem isn't getting numbers or keeping girls interested. My approach and conversational skills have gotten to the point where a lot of girls this year have been asking for my number first. I just think my closing of genuinely good interactions could use some work to avoid flaking. Flaking is inevitable of course especially in the smartphone era, but I just think my closes can be stronger to crystallize and solidify the good interaction.

A number close and plan for a future date is basic, but I'm just wondering if there's any blueprint some guys around here use to bump the success rate of bridging that close to a second meeting, whether it be through the use of psychology or something else.

[XXL]

The best way to me is set it up then and there on the spot where to meet up next time. That means before exchanging contacts.

1. Sugest what to do next time together
2. Watch her reaction to that
3. If she seems weird about it or avoidant in general then it will probably fail. If she looks ok about it set it up. Exchange contacts then.

[MathGuy]

Hey dude, it's interesting to see you talk about daygame instead of politics. We should wing in NYC sometime. I've recently hit a point in my daygame 'career' where I want to focus on closing strong, so we're pretty much on the same page.

I think it's crucial to have a clear idea of what it means to close strong. Think of how a newbie would try closing -- *as the interaction dies down after a few minutes of chit-chat* "so...can I have your number?...."

That suggests that crucial ingredients to closing strongly are:

-Certainty in your tone of voice and body language
-A clear reason as to why you want to exchange contact information -- that is, you've qualified her as someone worth seeing again (e.g. "I like talking with you, you're more interesting than I expected, we should hangout some time in the future")
-Done at a high point in the interaction, when she's laughing/smiling and paying strong attention, not when the 'energy' is fizzling out

Also, a couple things I've learned recently are:

-(I credit Todd Valentine for teaching me this in person when I came to one of his classes in NYC) Even if you have a pleasant interaction, if you leave right after getting the number, it causes what you can call the "phone number bandit effect." From the girl's perspective, it can feel like you came up and managed to 'steal' something from her. To rectify this, try staying for a few minutes after obtaining the number. Schedule the date right then and there with her in person. Build some rapport. Often, this will mean that you should not exchange numbers at the end of the interaction, but after a high point in the middle of the interaction, to ensure that you have the time to show that you're a 'real person' and not an energetic smooth talking character that makes the girl think "who was that guy?"

-Realize that the headspace a girl will be in when she received your text is different from the headspace she is in when you first met her in person. When you cold approached her, she'll generally have her emotions and energy up as you engage her with confidence, entertaining storytelling, etc. When you text her, she'll likely be sitting down, probably a bit bored. Therefore, while you close, you should tone down the energy and emotion of the interaction. It's actually better to make the last moments of the interaction more logical and boring, because that'll be the headspace she'll be in when she receives your text. If you want to schedule a date, go for logical investment.

-If you're going for an instant-date, however, you should rely more on emotional investment. Pump up her emotions, create some intrigue, etc etc.

-It can be very useful to come up with a "canned closer" - a memorized set of things to say and do when you close an interaction. I'm still refining mine, but let me give an example from yesterday that seemed to work out well:

(this was a girl I met yesterday near a bus stop in Queens, opened directly...this conversation is reproduced from my memory, so not 100% verbatim)

Me: *after a couple minutes of conversation* "random question, tell me one thing you like about me."
Girl: *smiles* "hmm..you're very outgoing"
Me: "interesting, I think you're very outgoing too...we should hangout sometime when you're in the area"
Girl: "sure! I go here pretty often."
Me: "why don't you follow me on Instagram?" *makes her follow my account which has 4000+ followers*
*her bus comes in the distance*
Me: "After you leave, you'll probably be wondering 'who was that guy,' so know that I'm just someone with the confidence to meet people like this. I'll send you a message, and we'll talk more from there"
Girl: "more guys should be like you"

she later responded to my message, and because it was still a very short interaction I'm focusing on building more rapport through text

The structure of my canned closer is: qualify by asking her one thing she likes about me (using the principle of commitment&consistency from Cialdini), tell her something I like about her, say that "we should meet up sometime" then exchange contact info, build some more rapport before leaving by having more mundane chit-chat and having a parting statement like "after I leave, you'll probably be wondering 'who was that guy?'. I'm just someone with the confidence to meet people on the street like this.... and I hope you have a great day."

That interaction yesterday was very different from most of my 'number closes' that entailed me leaving after obtaining the girl's number, which led to dozens of dead numbers. My phone is a graveyard of over 70 dead numbers because I didn't follow the guidelines I wrote about above. I'm definitely learning from my mistakes.

Edit: I'm basing this off of an entire year of experience focusing on daygame (with a small break during the winter), starting as a very inexperienced 21 year old newbie. I just realized that my RVF account is exactly one year old.

[Libertas]

Quote:

Hey dude, it's interesting to see you talk about daygame instead of politics.

Yeah, this summer's been a bit of a dud for some reason.

Quote:

A clear reason as to why you want to exchange contact information -- that is, you've qualified her as someone worth seeing again (e.g. "I like talking with you, you're more interesting than I expected, we should hangout some time in the future")

This is solid. People love to have a reason for doing something. I wrote about it at ROK a few months ago. Perhaps the word "because" should even be used.

Quote:

Even if you have a pleasant interaction, if you leave right after getting the number, it causes what you can call the "phone number bandit effect." From the girl's perspective, it can feel like you came up and managed to 'steal' something from her. To rectify this, try staying for a few minutes after obtaining the number.

Yeah, I knew this from a long while ago, so usually do that.

Quote:

Me: *after a couple minutes of conversation* "random question, tell me one thing you like about me."
Girl: *smiles* "hmm..you're very outgoing"
Me: "interesting, I think you're very outgoing too...we should hangout sometime when you're in the area"
Girl: "sure! I go here pretty often."
Me: "why don't you follow me on Instagram?" *makes her follow my account which has 4000+ followers*
*her bus comes in the distance*
Me: "After you leave, you'll probably be wondering 'who was that guy,' so know that I'm just someone with the confidence to meet people like this. I'll send you a message, and we'll talk more from there"
Girl: "more guys should be like you"

Very nicely done! This not only takes advantage of the principle of consistency, as you say, it's also a form of pacing and leading.

Pacing: What do you like about me?
Leading: Reflecting her feelings back at her, then leading her where you want to go.

I'll use this. I also want to try something based on the principle of "the unfinished" though.

[eradicator]

What the heck, I'll throw in my two cents because I disagree with lingering after number closing.

I don't usually ask for a girls number, I'll ask her out for drinks(or coffee if she mentioned that she doesn't like going to bars, or doesn't drink or whatever). Instead of saying "what's your phone" I'll say "I think you're really hot and would like to meet you for a drink" (or something to that effect).

You want the interaction to end where your both on a high from it, and not stick around and linger after closing. But do what you want.

I'm in New York as well, I don't usually actively go out and daygame for the sake of daygaming, but I meet a ton of people in New York throughout my day, it's inevitable, and talk to a lot of people, if I like a girl I ask her out. But by all means, do whatever works for you.

[Captain Gh]

Libertas I'm wondering if you try to push for an InstaDate when you hook a good one? You seem to be good at creating attraction and Rambling already, so that's good! If you don't go for InstaDates already, I guarantee you that you're closing rate will Skyrocket if you start! In hindsight, I've InstaDated women that I now know would never Fuck me in a Million Years! A woman's mind has a hard time saying No to a man she's been chatting with for more than 10 Min. Still amazed by this Shit!

[TIOT12]

(08-16-2017 10:16 AM)eradicator Wrote:  

What the heck, I'll throw in my two cents because I disagree with lingering after number closing.

I don't usually ask for a girls number, I'll ask her out for drinks(or coffee if she mentioned that she doesn't like going to bars, or doesn't drink or whatever). Instead of saying "what's your phone" I'll say "I think you're really hot and would like to meet you for a drink" (or something to that effect).

You want the interaction to end where your both on a high from it, and not stick around and linger after closing. But do what you want.

I'm in New York as well, I don't usually actively go out and daygame for the sake of daygaming, but I meet a ton of people in New York throughout my day, it's inevitable, and talk to a lot of people, if I like a girl I ask her out. But by all means, do whatever works for you.

I think your wording is stronger and more meaningful because you are putting the emphasis on taking her out rather than asking for the number. A slight difference but I think it comes across as a more serious interest in her and probably reduces flake potential. Basically, you are saying I want to take you out and the phone number is just a minor detail to accomplish that. But I suppose the way the others are doing it kind of does the same thing with them talking about things after the number. I think the common key is showing a real interest in her. I feel the non verbal communication matters more here than the actual words because it will be perceived by her as your true intent whether she does this consciously or not.

[MaceTyrell]

Great thread. Personally trying to get better at day game, and I'm in NYC too!

While I'm a beginner, far and away the most consistent thing I've found is asking for the number in the middle of the interaction. Practically every day game number I've had (and quite a few of the night game numbers I've acquired) that proved to be a warm lead came when asking in the middle.

[456]

I will 99% cosign that a number only matters once you've gotten the verbal YES to the Thing you asked her to do:

- "let's hang on Tuesday!" - "Sure! I'd like that." -- now getting the number is important.

- "I could kill an hour also, let's grab a drink up the street!" - "Sure!" -- get it later, during the instadate


Pro-tip: try delaying exchanging NAMES as long as possible. Follow the above replacing "number" with "name" and it's great.

Reason is that if she's chatting, agreeing to a hang-out (insta- or later on), BEFORE knowing your first name, it's a wonderful filter and sign that it's ON.


I'm also in NYC and my favorite method is the "non-intentional" day/evening sidewalk gaming. Almost every girl I get with is from this method.

[Giovonny]

(08-14-2017 07:57 AM)Libertas Wrote:  

I've discovered that my biggest weakness in daygame is closing.

How did you make this "discovery"?

How do you know that closing is your biggest weakness?

(08-14-2017 07:57 AM)Libertas Wrote:  

what are some good ways you guys close to crystallize the interaction and increase the chance of a second meeting?

1) Be attractive physically
2) Be attractive mentally/emotionally

These are the 2 most important things.

If you don't have these 2 things, no close can save you.

(08-14-2017 07:57 AM)Libertas Wrote:  

"Pre-Suasion"

I've written about "pre-suation" before, in relation to my "fake phone call" trick.

"Pre" - meaning before the interaction starts!

The close starts at the beginning!! (be attractive, "look", style, clothes, hair, teeth, body language, vocal tone, facial expressions, etc.)

Don't wait til the end to "close". Always be closing!

(08-14-2017 07:57 AM)Libertas Wrote:  

do you have any other ways to close a daygame interaction stronger than "give me your number"

- Get her to ask for your number.

- Insta-dates can be a good idea. I took this college girl back to her dorm room after a day time approach

- The more touching the better.

- Go for a kiss.

- Detail exactly what you will do if you were to see each other again.

But, again..

The best way to see a girl again is to be attractive to her physically and mentally.

A girl usually knows within seconds if she wants to fuck you or not.

I don't think your issue is "closing". Your issue is a low number of approaches. Your instincts and vibe are dull because you have been more concerned with politics than pussy. Girls can sense this.. Be more fun, have more fun.. They will react better.

[eradicator]

OK, for the other nyc guys, is your most common opener to ask for directions? I have to do that anyways because half the time I have no idea what the fastest way to get where I'm going even with my smartphone out. Or while on the subway and the driver suddenly decides to go rogue and make the train into an express train, I'm like "wtf, how can he just do that, is there another train right behind us or something?"

The trains are constantly changing schedules, especially on weekends, and opening about something like that seems like as good of an opener as anything, because I honestly have no idea what is up with the trains in this town a lot of the time.

[456]

No -- I know the city too well to sell that.

Sometimes direct then read her a bit. Sometimes situational. Sometimes girls will ask me directions which I enjoy giving, then I can segue.

So many opportunities. I have to stay congruent so I end up not asking for stuff. Keeps me focused on her, not my "story".

[sonderho]

(08-14-2017 07:57 AM)Libertas Wrote:  

After a long while improving my content generally, I've discovered that my biggest weakness currently in daygame is closing as strong as possible. So basically, my approaches and general conversation is strong, but my closing could use some work.

Of course we all know to take any interaction as far as it can go but when that can't happen during the day (usually), or your logistics aren't optimal, what are some good ways you guys close to crystallize the interaction and increase the chance of a second meeting?

The thing I'm currently trying to test right now comes from the Zeigarnik effect or a mystery story - that people put priority on things that are unfinished and want to solve the mystery. This is a great way to command attention after the interaction because memories will be stronger (there's a lot of literature on this, but Pre-Suasion is perhaps the best and most accessible book for it). Implementation has been slow however, it can be difficult to make that kind of thing up on the fly, especially if your rate of approaching is sparse (as mine has been lately, this summer has been something of a dud).

Do any of you try something similar? Or do you have any other ways to close a daygame interaction stronger than "give me your number and let's go to so and so, etc."? I'd like to hear them.

I believe it is infinitely more important to focus on as you said 'general conversation' aka your small/big bait (in the form of stories, observations, statements as detailed in Roosh's book Day Bang) during your interaction with her to get her hooked on your interestingness/coolness. This gets her to ask you questions about you, and as a result want to know more about you aka meet up with you another time.

[MaceTyrell]

Eradicator, one of my go to openers here is to compliment them on a piece of their clothing/outfit, even if I don't like it.

Every girl in NYC likes to think they're "trendy."

[Dantes]

Im glad to see Gio posting again on Daygame. There is a lot of wisdom in his words, but unfortunately it often falls on deaf ears.

Guys are analyzing their approaches too much like its a math equation. Get out of your head and be more Visceral. The next time you get laid, do a post-bang experiment. Ask the girl if she remembers what you said to her initially. 9 times out of 10, they don't recall or have a vague idea.

This illustrates that thinking of precise and clever openers is often futile. When doing Direct approaches, girls respond to your looks, vibe, energy, style and how you make her feel. The words aren't as important as your appearance, body language, and the energy you evoke. She only knows that she likes you because she feels it.

The close is within the first few seconds. Girls make up their mind quickly. Rambling about bullshit likes subway schedules does not factor into how she feels about you. The subtleties of the "Game" aspect of Daygame comes into play when turning a "maybe" girl into a "yes" girl. This is an advanced toolkit for those who have been doing it a long time. Even for advanced players, the sweet spot is always for the "yes" girls. These girls respond instantly to your looks and command. The opener and the close are one in the same.

Guys wonder why they can't convert. It is because they are not responding to your looks and vibe. The hard truth is they aren't attracted to you. (This is in no way a judgement on the OP or any others in this thread). I am speaking of years of experience doing Direct Daygame and having coached men.

Game tactics certainly have its place in Daygame, but more attention should be paid to being lean, fit, stylish and having command of your body and mind.