[fortysix]

All my life my left knee has felt like it was very slightly off, but never really causing me any pain. I’ve been exclusively weight lifting for about three years (squat / bench / dl, all the main lifts - I do low reps, low volume, but high intensity [3-5 reps per set]) since I really find it the most efficient use of my exercise time with a very hectic work schedule. Aside from lifting, I’m pretty sedentary and just sit in an office chair all day working. Then I get in my car and drive home. Then I sit around on my couch with my wife. However, when I do lift, I go heavy.

Earlier this year, I read somewhere that going on long runs can be beneficial for depression, so I decided to go on a long run. After jogging for about 20 minutes, the outer left side of my left knee began killing me. It just randomly felt like there was a knife in there. The pain took about 3-4 days to subside completely, but I took an extra week off before squatting or deadlifting. Those lifts were fine.

A month or so later, I tried to go running again. Again, everything was fine, but about 20 minutes into it, the outer left part of my kneecap started hurting like hell again. Again the pain went away after 3-4 days.

Then, I was moving apartments, and had to do a bunch of walking up and down stairs, and again, the knee pain came back, and it was excruciating, but again, went away after 3-4 days.

I’ve been googling around, and read that it may be caused by a tight “ITB” band, and that certain stretches and foam rolling can help alleviate that pain – however, then I read a bunch of articles that say you can’t actually stretch the IT band, and its all BS (https://themovementfix.com/rolling-band/).

I really don’t want to spend time going to a PT, but I would really like to get back into running.

Has anyone had knee issues? How did you fix them? If I keep running every once in a while, perhaps the imbalance will go away on its own? Suggestions?

[MOVSM]

This is why you don't jog. Jogging, and all running for that matter, is ruinous for your knees.
Go to the doctor, you may have meniscus tear.
Once you come out, stop jogging and pick up a copy of "starting strength."

[fortysix]

(08-09-2017 08:35 PM)MOVSM Wrote:  

This is why you don't jog. Jogging, and all running for that matter, is ruinous for your knees.
Go to the doctor, you may have meniscus tear.
Once you come out, stop jogging and pick up a copy of "starting strength."

Ive been doing starting strength forever - all I do is lift. I want to add some cardio and general variety to my workouts to take my fitness to the next level, jogging seemed like a nice way to blow off some steam out of the weight room, but alas...

[Mess O.]

How is your squat form?

[fortysix]

(08-09-2017 08:59 PM)Mess O. Wrote:  

How is your squat form?

My squat form is perfect - ATG. Still, my knee bothers me on occasion when I squat. When it does, I wrap elastic wrap just above and below the knee and warm up thoroughly, and then I am ok. Knee is generally not a problem on squats.

[Beyond Borders]

Spend some months walking, maybe? It can still be super good for you and the consistent lower intensity work may give your knee time to adapt and repair itself. I've experienced similar things with my knee, and with an old ankle injury, but by taking things slow the problem went away over time.

If you really want something more fast-paced to get those endorphins going, though, you might try switching up to windsprints - even though you're going way harder than a jog, ironically, often there's less wear and tear because the time work periods are so short. Nothing leaves me with that after-workout "high" like some all-out sprints.

If that's still not going to do it, switch to another exercise completely, like hard swimming or rowing. I'm guessing there's nothing magical about jogging and depression - it's exercise itself that makes you feel good.

EDIT: Vaun is correct, though - internet forums aren't the best place for advice about medical issues. I'd hate for you to screw up your knee worse based on anything I've written above. Err on the side of caution and talk with a doctor or physical therapist.

[Vaun]

At this point I would rank a message board as your fifth, sixth or 70th opinion on how to fix your knee. Especially anyone that says "you never need to run only lift weights".

First thing I would do is figure out who the best orthopedic knee surgeon is in your town. Usually they work on the pro athletes, or top athletes in your area. Go to this doctor. Ignore pretty much everyone else. There are a lot of bad ortho docs out there, especially old timers, weakling herb hippie types, or just lazy doctors.

Go to the doctor and get checked out. They will ask you questions, scan your knee, and tell you whats really wrong. Before you get any hardcore bro science, at least go to your doctor first.

To stop the pain and swelling, stop activity and ice your knee every hour for 20 minutes. Until all pain and swelling is gone.

[Vaun]

(08-09-2017 09:05 PM)fortysix Wrote:  

(08-09-2017 08:59 PM)Mess O. Wrote:  

How is your squat form?

My squat form is perfect - ATG. Still, my knee bothers me on occasion when I squat. When it does, I wrap elastic wrap just above and below the knee and warm up thoroughly, and then I am ok. Knee is generally not a problem on squats.

My rx - stop squatting, start icing. And stop paying attention to any bro science until you get checked out.

[Mess O.]

Definitely agree, regarding the broscience.

[Isaac Jordan]

I second the suggestions to see a doctor or medical professional. Don't fuck around with your health man, a healthy body should be your #1 priority in life.

Regardless of what's actually wrong, I highly recommend starting collagen supplementation if you haven't already. It really can only help:

(01-13-2016 09:41 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

(01-13-2016 08:19 PM)Isaac Jordan Wrote:  

I'm no doctor, but I'd suggest giving collagen supplementation a try.

Most of us aren't getting much (if any) of it in our daily diets, but it's a primary component of the body's joints and tendons. It's been a real game-changer for my recovery, and I couldn't recommend it more highly.

Were you the first guy to recommend this on the forum? I need to thank you if so. This stuff is absolutely fantastic. I've been taking it for a few months now and it's one of, if not the single most noticeably effective supplements I've taken. It's almost entirely eliminated nagging joint soreness in the day or two following a heavy lifting session (particularly squats and deadlifts). I would call it nothing less than an absolute must for any man 25+ who wants optimal health, and especially for guys lifting weights. It's become a staple supplement for me along with the proven favorites like Vitamin D3, fish oil, Zinc, Vitamin C and Magnesium. Anyone on the fence about ordering collagen, I encourage you to give it a try. I can personally vouch for it 100%.

[bdrx]

I'll PM you some mobility exercises

[Rocha]

I had a torn ACL and meniscus surgery.
Go to a doctor, and if needed do a magnetic ressonance.

[Thomas the Rhymer]

I had the same problem.

It was due to a tight quadriceps, probably due to all the squatting I do as well as all my sitting.

I fixed it by doing regular quadricep stretches.

It took a while for the pain to release though.

For a non-impact cardio exercise, I've been doing 100+ rep dumbbell squats with light weights (started first with only body weight though). Very intense, and my heart rate has dropped since I starting doing those (whereas I never really managed to get 'fit' through jogging - my heart rate didn't change much).

[Vicious]

Go to a doctor.

Do NOT Fuck around with your knees.

I did a lot of track running and skiing in my younger years which really put a toll on my knees. Nothing puts a damper on your QoL as much as having your mobility hampered.

[vinman]

It may be your stride. If your stride is too long it can be brutal on the knees. I'm almost 50 and I had knee pain for years. To get a more natural stride I would jog on a treadmill wearing only my socks. This taught me how to stride without heel strikes, and landing more towards the mid foot. I started slowly to build up my Achilles tendons, and calves. I naturally ran this way as a kid, but on advise of others I widened my stride to get faster fitness test times in the military (that was a mistake). Since I changed my stride my knees don't hurt when I run, But I still have the aches and pains of being a Grunt, and (American) football player.

**EDIT

PS
How old are you? How much do you stretch daily? How good is your warm up? How much water do you drink?

[MikeInRealLife]

I'm an old guy and I replaced running with heavy bag workouts. No issues with joint pain, but running in Phoenix summer heat is borderline suicidal at my age, plus I detest the monotony of running.

I currently do five 3-minute rounds on the bag, with 1-minute breaks in between where I do pull-ups. I go hard on the bag, like I'm actually fighting. I'm pretty gassed at the end of the workout. Goal is five 5-minute rounds. It's way more fun than running, at least for me.

[Thrill Jackson]

It sounds like you have runners knee. But to be sure I would see a doctor. Also, you need to start slower.20 minutes for a newbie seems a little too long. Do 20 minutes then 10 percent more each week.

[PUA_Rachacha]

(08-09-2017 08:11 PM)fortysix Wrote:  

All my life my left knee has felt like it was very slightly off, but never really causing me any pain. I’ve been exclusively weight lifting for about three years (squat / bench / dl, all the main lifts - I do low reps, low volume, but high intensity [3-5 reps per set]) since I really find it the most efficient use of my exercise time with a very hectic work schedule. Aside from lifting, I’m pretty sedentary and just sit in an office chair all day working. Then I get in my car and drive home. Then I sit around on my couch with my wife. However, when I do lift, I go heavy.

Earlier this year, I read somewhere that going on long runs can be beneficial for depression, so I decided to go on a long run. After jogging for about 20 minutes, the outer left side of my left knee began killing me. It just randomly felt like there was a knife in there. The pain took about 3-4 days to subside completely, but I took an extra week off before squatting or deadlifting. Those lifts were fine.

A month or so later, I tried to go running again. Again, everything was fine, but about 20 minutes into it, the outer left part of my kneecap started hurting like hell again. Again the pain went away after 3-4 days.

Then, I was moving apartments, and had to do a bunch of walking up and down stairs, and again, the knee pain came back, and it was excruciating, but again, went away after 3-4 days.

I’ve been googling around, and read that it may be caused by a tight “ITB” band, and that certain stretches and foam rolling can help alleviate that pain – however, then I read a bunch of articles that say you can’t actually stretch the IT band, and its all BS (https://themovementfix.com/rolling-band/).

I really don’t want to spend time going to a PT, but I would really like to get back into running.

Has anyone had knee issues? How did you fix them? If I keep running every once in a while, perhaps the imbalance will go away on its own? Suggestions?

Don't expect to have great knees if you're doing heavy weights, jogging regularly, and are over 40. Since you can't pick your age, then pick either lifting or jogging, but not both.

I started jogging last year as well while doing heavy lifting. Jogging's great, but I developed weekend-long headaches after a few months of doing it. My knees also began bothering me. I'm 38 and used to be a collegiate athlete, so my knees are not in the best of shape anyways.

I would suggest a LISS exercise, e.g., biking, swimming, elliptical, rowing, etc. Check out Fab40 if you're actually 46. I also do aerobic exercises for the mental-health benefits (besides burning calories and cardiovascular help), and you have to do it at least 3x per week, 30 minutes each time, to reap benefits. More is better.

I demolished my depression by going on TRT if that's an avenue you haven't traversed yet. The aerobic exercise is more beneficial for anxiety in my case. Being on TRT, lifting heavy 2x per week and 3x per week of aerobic has me feeling the best I've felt mentally in about five years.

[ScrapperTL]

Your looking for a no bullshit, effective fix, I have one - like all great things in life it is difficult though.
Difficulty Level: Sourcing + Money + Consistency

Raloxifene has been scientifically proven to increase Bone Mineral Density in the human body.
Bone Broth Soup has all the building blocks you need to heal every Tendon, Ligament, Joint and Muscle in your entire body.
Anavar has been scientifically proven to repair type I and type III collagen in the human body.

You need Raloxifene + Bone Broth Soup + Anavar on a daily basis.
Inside of a few weeks, this combination will feel like a fucking miracle cure.

Everything else will be slow and inefficient compared to the above method.
That is not to say the others methods won't work, the above method is simply the Highest Quality method.

[Elster]

I fully agree with Vaun, whose statement leads me to ask :
Do you stretch after your weight lifting sessions ?

[monster]

Could be your shoes. If you overpronate or underpronate your feet that spells a lot of trouble for your ankles and knees, especially if they're under stress of squats on the other days of the week.

A good running shoe store will be able to look at your gait and select a shoe to correct over or under pronation.

Helped me a lot, but its not a panacea.

[fortysix]

Thanks for all your comments guys.

Lots of good advice here.

The reason that I want to keep jogging (rather than swimming, lifting more [which, mind you, I will keep doing forever], cycling, etc) is because I want to be fucking outside. I have some very scenic runs not far from where I live, and just being there, with the crisp air, and the natural endorphins that running produces, is, well extremely meditative. As is, I spend all day in my office.

I'm going to spend a month very slowly ramping out my jogging (maybe start with 10 min, then 15 min, then 20 min, and see where it takes me). I'm also going to do more thigh stretches after my squats. Finally, bdrx sent me some cool knee mobility exercises that I will try out - if it works, he'll be getting a 1+ from me!

If things don't get better in a month or two, I'm probably going to just give up on jogging, because I don't want to deal with going to a PT...

I'll report back!

I also went to mention, I've been taking ORANGE TRIAD for the joint benefits, and ive noticed huge differences in the weight room (no cracking / catching in my knee) - I've been taking it for about a year now.

[MOVSM]

(08-09-2017 08:50 PM)fortysix Wrote:  

(08-09-2017 08:35 PM)MOVSM Wrote:  

This is why you don't jog. Jogging, and all running for that matter, is ruinous for your knees.
Go to the doctor, you may have meniscus tear.
Once you come out, stop jogging and pick up a copy of "starting strength."

Ive been doing starting strength forever - all I do is lift. I want to add some cardio and general variety to my workouts to take my fitness to the next level, jogging seemed like a nice way to blow off some steam out of the weight room, but alas...

Depending on your age, you can do it. Cycling is far preferable though. Doctors recommended that to my father, who cannot run due to torn meniscus in both knees.
When I was in Los Angeles, I would go mountain biking every weekend. The sights from a top of a mountain are unbelievable.

[Guitarman]

You can experience the outdoors just as well when cycling and it is low impact as well as being aerobic.

I had to give up running years ago because it hurt my knees, cycling is fine on them though.

[kosko]

Swimming is a great cardio alternative to jogging and you can actually swim year around with access to indoor pool.