[kimleebj]

I look forward to the release of Roosh's new Day Game book, particularly his comparisons of Day Game and Night Game strategy. In particular, I recently noticed some interesting similarities across advocates of direct game. To clarify, the Mystery Method and Neil Strauss approach emphasizes indirect game (opinion openers, false time constraint, negs). Roosh agrees indirect game is often superior:

Direct vs. Indirect Game.

But Roosh acknowledges many indirect guys have no chance of getting laid.

Clown Game

Alan Roger Currie's "Mode One" is a direct, sexual approach. A similar kino escalation approach is 60 Years of Challenge. Despite his recent shooting conviction and frightening appearance, Gunwitch sensitively espoused similar direct game (especially Gunwitch Method 1).

Gunwitch Method 1

Gunwitch Method 2

[Roosh]

Quote:

But Roosh acknowledges many indirect guys have no chance of getting laid.

Clown Game

Can you paste my exact words that backup that assertion? I don't see it in my clown game comment, which is where I criticized overly high-energy approaches that average guys can't duplicate. I feel like you're putting words in my mouth to start yet another debate on the topic.

I think indirect vs direct arguments are old and pointless. Do you like direct game better? Then great, use it. Do you like indirect better? Great, use that. it doesn't have to be either/or. My professional opinion (from teaching dozens of guys in person) is that indirect is superior for the "average" guy.

The guys who get more mileage out of direct game are guys who didn't have to learn game from scratch in the first place. I strongly believe that newbies should start with indirect game. Once you move up in skill, experiment with direct and see if it's better for you. I use direct game occasionally at night, so you won't see much bash it, but when my little brother is ready to learn game (he's 15 now), I'm teaching him indirect first.

[kimleebj]

(08-31-2011 05:33 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

I criticized overly high-energy approaches ... .
indirect is superior for the "average" guy ... .
I use direct game occasionally at night ... .

Sorry to mischaracterize you or revive a tedious direct/indirect debate. I think your point is that misunderstanding or misapplying the concepts will render either approach ineffective. In the wrong contexts, indirect approachers become dancing monkeys, while direct approachers trigger defenses that prevent comfort or rapport.

(07-16-2011 09:56 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

he mixes things up. If you're going to do mainly cocky and funny, then you should stay indirect. If you're going direct, you should lean more towards charming/smooth/James Bond. It's like he's learned so many schools of PUA that he just wants to do everything ... like mixing oil and water. It's jarring.

While your tactics are often indirect (openers, aloofness, noncompliance), your motivation, mental state, and persistent strategy are pretty direct.
No-Dating Challenge
You Still Need Game to Bang Whores (Persistence)

Instead of an inflexible approach, your work is distinguished by a thoughtful understanding of why you should use different tools in different situations.

[Roosh]

When I mean direct, I mean verbally stating your affections or sexual intentions.

I remember there was a guy here who said direct was superior to indirect, but couldn't give us any real-world examples of how to use it. "It's a mindset," he said. Well that's great he understands the mindset, but if he can't explain it, how can we understand it?

Quote:

While your tactics are often indirect (openers, aloofness, noncompliance), your motivation, mental state, and persistent strategy are pretty direct

I think you're confusing direct vs indirect game and being just plain old aggressive/persistent. I guess I fail to see the usefulness of bringing up different styles of game and then debating them. Instead, I recommend you give examples or stories of game you have used, and then let other guys comment on it. Otherwise we're being abstract.

[Basil Ransom]

Going indirect doesn't mean being a dancing monkey. Physical escalation and isolation keeps you from being a mere entertainer - the girl will refuse or accept your advances. If she continually refuses them, you walk. There is no dire need to state your intentions.

Indirect game is essential in sensitive circumstances. If you don't go direct, anything short of going for the kiss can be dismissed as harmless flirting. Imagine hitting on a coworker, a girl in your social circle, or an acquaintance's girlfriend... there may be bad repercussions if you go direct and she says no. If you go indirect, and casually invite her for a night out and she demurs, you won't suffer.

[TheWolfHowls]

Thats what I think. Indirect is better in sensitive situations but cold situations, direct is mostly likely more effective in more random situations. Then again, i'm a pro-direct guy.

[MikeCF]

Since this isn't the newbie forum, why not just start a post saying, "I used direct game tactic x, y, and z. I got laid/blown out."

Otherwise, it seems like a newbie question. Guys who are running game knows what works for them/us.

Most of the time, I'm total caveman direct. I hit a dance floor. Look a girl who gives me the eye, and I start grinding up on her. If she grinds back, I make out within 10 minutes. I isolate within 30-45 minutes. THen I try getting her out within 2 hours.

My experience doesn't mean that direct game is better or worse. It just means it works for me in certain circumstances. And since I've done my caveman move dozens of times, I speak from experience and thus don't need to preach dogma or ask what works "better."

Honestly, though, if you're asking such questions, you're a newbie - which means you shouldn't be overthinking these issues. You should just do what you're told. That sounds dickish in an "everyone's opinion matters," self-esteem society. But it's true. If you can't go out TONIGHT, and have a better than 50% chance of getting laid by at least a 6, then you should just do what successful people tell you to do. After a while, you'll realize why questions like these are sorta tiresome.