[Hooligan Harry]

Retail price on houses

Somewhere someone is taking you seriously

[worldwidetraveler]

(08-31-2011 11:56 PM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

Retail price on houses

Somewhere someone is taking you seriously

Not everyone can be an expert in markets they never purchased. You are one special, mansion living, sport car driving cat. Never change!

[Dash Global]

Quote:

@Dash,

If you are going to be serious about this and you are going to plow everything you have saved into this, do yourself a favour. Get a job at a real estate agent for a while and study the PROCESS inside out. You need exposure. Dont hang out on property forums where bored housewives and guys with a portfolio of two properties give you advice. Dont listen to the bullshit in magazines or all the property books that have been printed alone. Take that crap with a pinch of salt.

Study up not on property finance, but asset finance as a whole. Its more important than anything else. Leverage through finance makes you money, not the actual buy or sale like everyone preaches. See what mistakes your clients make and what they do right. You can never, in your personal capacity, ever cover a market efficiently. Not unless you you intend for this to be pocket money only or a hobby on the side, which is what the genius @123flip is making. That is not money, that is a job.

I have brokers for everything and spend more time finding the right broker than I do on actual research on a few choice properties. It took me years to before I understand that and you would be best served establishing relationships with the right people, seeing how it fits together and actually understanding the risks instead of just thinking you do.

Getting a job as a RE agent would not be worthwhile now. I have spent the last 2 years studying the RE game inside and out and there isnt much im gonna learn from being some RE agent. It could possibly gain me access to what I mention next.

The only thing I have left to do if get a successful mentor for my local market. Go over my market analysis and business model and see what he thinks of it.

I actually do plan on getting my RE License because that will save me some coin on the commission fees. They add up

I still got some living abroad to do while im young so I wont be state side until 2-3 years. Its possible I could get bored or ansy and return sooner and jump in the game.

Im pretty confident and pleased with my preparation. It hasnt let me down yet...........

[BostonBMW]

(08-31-2011 11:30 PM)Jim Kirk Wrote:  

@ Boston - Our House over on Com avenue has closed

@ Boston - Our House over on Com avenue has closed
Some wisdom got posted here – but not that much. An older real estate lawyer told me the rule for real estate is that everything is a scam. If you have never purchased land/house – dealt with tenants – dealt with tenants receiving gov’t rent checks – performed home repair yourself, have become familiar with what good construction entails – and how to hire and supervise contractors when you need them – or can otherwise perform most repairs yourself – can perform public records searches yourself, and can deal with real estate salespeople – you will be taken advantage of.

You can thank me for this later – but real estate prices in general are continuing to decline overall. Also, Section 8 and other housing assistance programs are being cut down wholesale – I personally know landlords that took tenants with 4 figure disability rent money vouchers where the landlord got a letter stating the program was terminated and that this would be your last check with 14 months to go under a lease. Now you try evicting a disabled person for non-payment of rent. The advice to look at property in Buffalo is insane. Buffalo looks like Hiroshima after the blast. Buying your first property 12 hours away from your home with the expectation of putting government tenants in it – who will wreck the place – in a jurisdiction like Buffalo is madness.

Do yourself a favor and spend 6 months looking at properties within an hour’s drive of your home because prices will continue to drop in general – If you buy something in a hot market – like a 20 unit apartment building in Brookline – you are still going to pay year 2006 prices in the millions of dollars. If you are starting off with a nice 2 to 4 family home that needs some repair work – play a little game. If you see a listing – set up an appointment with a salesperson and look at the place – then do a public records search. Learn how to research when the home was built – how many owners – what the sales history of the property is. See if the electric or utilities have ever been updated. Then go into another real estate office and ask what is costs to rent ½ of a 2 family home – pull the tax records. Then computer some figures and follow the property – see who buys it and if the contract price becomes a public record – see if you can find out how far below the asking price the property sold for.

Then – see if you can find or get recommended a handyman who you can tell what to do – get a book or two from the library on home repair – see what it takes to repair plumbing lines, etc. –
Do that for 6 months before you make a buy and see what the market does and then run your numbers. Another route – buy a three family and you move into one unit – that way you can get an FHA loan with almost no money down. Do the renovation work yourself on the other units – then rent one unit while you do the next – and then rent 2 units while you work on your own. See what tenants ‘bite’ and how much you can get. After a year – move out and rent your unit. You will have learned the maintenance side by then. Move into your next 3 family and do the same thing – if need be – have a handyman do the renovations – tell him exactly what to do, etc.

Jim – Good advice, I was planning on sending you a PM, but feel that there is great value in discussing this matter in a public forum.

I am not relying too much on Section 8 or government assistance programs, as they come with their own set of limitations. Many of the properties are located in marginal neighborhoods. My goal, as you have mentioned as well, is to look for a multi-family within 1-2 hours of driving distance from Boston. Within that town/city, I do want to buy in a solid working to middle class neighborhood.

I am not even considering the Brooklines, Cambridges of the Greater Boston area. Their cash flows are negative, I don’t need to chase future equity appreciation, and they do not fit into my business plan. I do like your idea of researching the transaction and figuring out the delta between asking price – selling price. I wanted to take a different valuation approach:

-Expenses including maintenance, water/sewer, utilities (if any)
-Debt Service/PITI: Calculating the interest rate based on my preapproval, estimates on insurance/taxes.

Following those calculations, I would have to calculate my cash flow (profit) per month. The challenging issue that I am facing is getting accurate data. For example, property tax records are easy to locate, however maintenance and water/sewer bills are estimated. One month of a high water bill can wreck my cashflow projection very easily. Any advice on tightening up the projected expenses? Should I use worst case scenarios?

In terms of market research, I am looking forward to driving out there during the weekends to familiarize myself with the neighborhoods, housing stock – not sure if I am going to spend 6 months doing this research. If I can find a deal that works within my business model, I am not afraid to pull the trigger.
Handyman/Accountant/Lawyer: This may sound very basic, however I need some advice on finding the right person for the job. Since my network is based in Boston, and the properties may be located across the state line (ie RI or NH), I’d rather build a team that is based in the city/town that I am investing in. Early on it makes it really difficult to find a sharp accountant, good lawyer. I guess I can ask for referrals from RE agents and others, however I don’t really know them, so their referrals might not be the best.
Maintenance: I do intend to learn about basic maintenance however with a full time job, I don’t see me running off from work at 2 PM to fix a clogged toilet. I think there is a difference between knowing what is necessary to fix a common maintenance problem and actually doing it yourself. So I am hesitant to take on extensive renovations myself. I see the value in that approach but I also need my paycheck to fund the RE investment.

3 Family Move in: I just may pursue this idea. Owner occupied investments would mean favorable tax considerations, being “on the ground level” of the investment and taking on renovation projects. Since I need my job/paycheck, I would have to figure out commute times and see whether its feasible to make the daily trip into Boston. Here I wouldn’t mind moving into the ugliest unit of the building and doing renovation work on that unit. It’s a very conservative approach (which I like) because I’ll be rolling up my cashflow/living situation into one.

Sorry to hear about your Boston office.

[darth frosty]

Timeless info on the real estate game here:

remove spaces to make link
http:// http://www.filesonic.com/file/ 1841851904/AuitoEbook-real_estate_final-s.pdf

[johnw28]

I can say from personal experience with real estate there is a large difference between studying it and doing it. You will want to learn how to do some of the repairs yourself and figure out which ones you want to farm out. I've bought houses, building lots and large land tracts. You will have some loser properties that is a harsh reality. That is why I am getting into owner financing in the coming years. It erases the losses over the long run. The house I live in is one of those I under estimated what it would take to repair it. Hidden defects.

Section 8 isn't the greatest game people think it is. It can be a cash cow for the time they are in there but expect to make some expensive upgrades to the house, New kitchen cabinets, New sink, toilet and carpet to name a few. Just speaking from experience.

[guey]

(08-29-2011 10:49 PM)BostonBMW Wrote:  

So I am on the daily hustle, eyes on the prize: to make enough money to not have to work.

My field is real estate. Recently I have been scouring the listings and trying to do analyses to make the numbers work, Boston like the rest of the metropolitan Bos-Wash corridor is horrendous when it comes to positive cash flow...its like squeezing blood from a turnip.

The only possibilities I am seeing is some of the industrial/old mill cities of New England, they aren't ghetto per se, however definitely on the rough side. I am torn between:

Option A:

Buying a solid, well located property that barely breaks even, although may have some appreciation potential (if the US isn't bankrupted and the world doesn't end).

Option B:

Buying a cash cow that will give me some regular income, but forget about being able to enjoy any appreciation?

Option C:

Say F it and move out to the Midwest or the Rockies and start piling on investments out there. I am not looking for the big city excitement if it means putting my goals on hold. I figure if I am making like US 5K/month in net income, I can pretty much pull a Roosh.

I am making decent money out here, but I am not sleeping easy because 1. The economy goes to hell and I'm out of a job 2. I need to be locking down RE deals and I am not seeing the value opps.

Thoughts?

You are a complete fool if you are buying properties for appreciation in this market. ANYWHERE.

Buying anything in this market to hold as a rental only to break even is just plain poor judgment. I am getting 30% ROI cash-on-cash in my area, easily.

Moving to somewhere out West to invest is not the best idea. If you're actively involved in real estate, you are already keenly aware of the importance of knowing your market. Without being intimately familiar with a very particular market you are setting yourself up for failure.

Most RE markets are volatile as fuck right now. I've seen my portfolio decline in value 20% in the past 6 months from an influx of REOs diluting the market. Despite this, I am still well in the black.

My market is lower-middle income neighborhoods, brick rowhouses, with an ARV of $100-$120k and being invested in them for no more than 50% LTV.

$500/mo cashflow per month, per property is common. (my cashflow analysis ALWAYS takes into consideration ALL expenses associated with the property. Most investors only take PITI into account. Any seasoned investor knows this is shortsighted and stupid.)

With the future of interest rates, unemployment and market saturation you are FOOLISH to hedge your bets on appreciation. DO NOT COUNT ON THIS. If anything, count on DEPRECIATION of your properties in the next 10 years.
Do your numbers to take these things into account.

It's not 2007 anymore. The get-rich-quick scheme in real estate is dead.

[guey]

I don't want to sound offensive, but I know this comment will sound very offensive to some:

In looking at what a lot of you have to say about Real Estate Investing, it's quite obvious that very few of you have ever actually invested in real estate first hand.

A caveat: You can lose a LOT of money in this business. It's a dog-eat-dog world full of liars and cheats. EVERYONE is your enemy. Especially real estate agents/wholesalers/"guru" morons. Treat EVERYTHING you are told with great skepticism. People lie through their teeth and still tell themselves they are ethical.

Buyer beware. Seriously.

[Dash Global]

(09-08-2011 09:04 AM)guey Wrote:  

You are a complete fool if you are buying properties for appreciation in this market. ANYWHERE.

Buying anything in this market to hold as a rental only to break even is just plain poor judgment. I am getting 30% ROI cash-on-cash in my area, easily.

Moving to somewhere out West to invest is not the best idea. If you're actively involved in real estate, you are already keenly aware of the importance of knowing your market. Without being intimately familiar with a very particular market you are setting yourself up for failure.

Most RE markets are volatile as fuck right now. I've seen my portfolio decline in value 20% in the past 6 months from an influx of REOs diluting the market. Despite this, I am still well in the black.

My market is lower-middle income neighborhoods, brick rowhouses, with an ARV of $100-$120k and being invested in them for no more than 50% LTV.

$500/mo cashflow per month, per property is common. (my cashflow analysis ALWAYS takes into consideration ALL expenses associated with the property. Most investors only take PITI into account. Any seasoned investor knows this is shortsighted and stupid.)

With the future of interest rates, unemployment and market saturation you are FOOLISH to hedge your bets on appreciation. DO NOT COUNT ON THIS. If anything, count on DEPRECIATION of your properties in the next 10 years.
Do your numbers to take these things into account.

It's not 2007 anymore. The get-rich-quick scheme in real estate is dead.

I think you are misunderstanding Boston. I could be wrong though....

I think he is talking about buying LOW and through renovations MAKING the house appreciate. Generating profits /positive cashflow on the sell or through renting.

Some investors dont even care about turning a positive cashflow on some rentals as long as they break even. In 10 years the property could be paid off in full generating MAX cashflow. Not sure how having someone else pay off a mortgage / building equity is "poor judgment".

There are many poor markets but there is also good markets. My area I grew up in is experiencing ALOT of growth. Tons of new commercial and residential areas are popping up all over the place.

Im curious about your 500$ cashflow per property. Care to break out the numbers?

[worldwidetraveler]

(09-08-2011 09:15 AM)guey Wrote:  

I don't want to sound offensive, but I know this comment will sound very offensive to some:

In looking at what a lot of you have to say about Real Estate Investing, it's quite obvious that very few of you have ever actually invested in real estate first hand.

A caveat: You can lose a LOT of money in this business. It's a dog-eat-dog world full of liars and cheats. EVERYONE is your enemy. Especially real estate agents/wholesalers/"guru" morons. Treat EVERYTHING you are told with great skepticism. People lie through their teeth and still tell themselves they are ethical.

Buyer beware. Seriously.

I used to do it full time. I got rid of all my inventory when everyone was buying for appreciation. I may start buying again pretty soon. I am just not sure we hit the bottom yet and have no problem waiting.

Everyone should be doing their homework before purchasing any type of investment. I wouldn't be trusting anyone to feed me data on any market.

Sounds like you should have sold your inventory at the top of the market. Too bad for your portfolio hit.

I never knew real estate was a get rich quick sort of thing.

[worldwidetraveler]

(09-08-2011 10:29 AM)Dash Global Wrote:  

Some investors dont even care about turning a positive cashflow on some rentals as long as they break even. In 10 years the property could be paid off in full generating MAX cashflow. Not sure how having someone else pay off a mortgage / building equity is "poor judgment".

Equity doesn't mean much until you sell or refinance. Look at all the people that thought they had equity only for housing values to fall. No more equity.

Cashflow is much more important, imo.

Breaking even on cashflow is crazy. Any vacancy will result in a loss for the year.

[Dash Global]

(09-08-2011 01:36 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(09-08-2011 10:29 AM)Dash Global Wrote:  

Some investors dont even care about turning a positive cashflow on some rentals as long as they break even. In 10 years the property could be paid off in full generating MAX cashflow. Not sure how having someone else pay off a mortgage / building equity is "poor judgment".

Equity doesn't mean much until you sell or refinance. Look at all the people that thought they had equity only for housing values to fall. No more equity.

Cashflow is much more important, imo.

Breaking even on cashflow is crazy. Any vacancy will result in a loss for the year.

100% equity is what im talking about.

Not sure how having a property completely paid off (by someone else) "doesnt mean much"........

Thats max cashflow

[worldwidetraveler]

(09-08-2011 07:54 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  

100% equity is what im talking about.

Not sure how having a property completely paid off (by someone else) "doesnt mean much"........

Thats max cashflow

Let me get this straight because I am not sure if I am understanding...

You think it is a good idea to purchase a property that will probably cost you money every year. If you are breaking even, on rents, then with vacancy, property repairs, higher taxes since it is not owner occupied and insurance will put you in the red.

Even if you factor taxes and insurance you won't know for certain other costs like repairs, vacancies eviction expenses. You would be surprised at how people can manipulate the bankruptcy system to stay in your house rent free.

If you are lucky, you will just break even that year.

This will be acceptable to you since you are paying down that 15/20/30 year mortgage.

So you will take a loss for a lot of years to get your house paid off? If that is the case, how many houses do you think you will be able to purchase this way?

[Dash Global]

Quote:

Let me get this straight because I am not sure if I am understanding...

You think it is a good idea to purchase a property that will probably cost you money every year. If you are breaking even, on rents, then with vacancy, property repairs, higher taxes since it is not owner occupied and insurance will put you in the red.

If you are lucky, you will just break even that year.

This will be acceptable to you since you are paying down that 15/20/30 year mortgage.

So you will take a loss for a lot of years to get your house paid off? If that is the case, how many houses do you think you will be able to purchase this way?

It depends on your business plan and your goals / needs for investing.

Some people invest for instant cash and for their main income. Some people invest on the side for future profits.

Personally I wouldnt want to be taking a loss on a property. I would focus more on selling rather than holding. But after building a bank roll I would take a property in which I was only breaking even on (with the goal of having it paid off in 10 yrs) for the cashflow Id receive in the future.

You can buy low and get a positive cashflow regardless soo that would only be an option if you wanted or was ok with it.

[worldwidetraveler]

(09-08-2011 08:38 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  

It depends on your business plan and your goals / needs for investing.

Some people invest for instant cash and for their main income. Some people invest on the side for future profits.

Personally I wouldnt want to be taking a loss on a property. I would focus more on selling rather than holding. But after building a bank roll I would take a property in which I was only breaking even on (with the goal of having it paid off in 10 yrs) for the cashflow Id receive in the future.

You can buy low and get a positive cashflow regardless soo that would only be an option if you wanted or was ok with it.

Ok, I see what you're saying now. Yeah, I wouldn't really be interested in taking a loss for future cashflow (not even for tax incentives). I would prefer using my limited resources on a property that would cashflow right away. I can then decide if I want to pay down the mortgage even faster with the positive cashflow or pocket it.

[BostonBMW]

(09-08-2011 09:04 AM)guey Wrote:  

(08-29-2011 10:49 PM)BostonBMW Wrote:  

So I am on the daily hustle, eyes on the prize: to make enough money to not have to work.

My field is real estate. Recently I have been scouring the listings and trying to do analyses to make the numbers work, Boston like the rest of the metropolitan Bos-Wash corridor is horrendous when it comes to positive cash flow...its like squeezing blood from a turnip.

The only possibilities I am seeing is some of the industrial/old mill cities of New England, they aren't ghetto per se, however definitely on the rough side. I am torn between:

Option A:

Buying a solid, well located property that barely breaks even, although may have some appreciation potential (if the US isn't bankrupted and the world doesn't end).

Option B:

Buying a cash cow that will give me some regular income, but forget about being able to enjoy any appreciation?

Option C:

Say F it and move out to the Midwest or the Rockies and start piling on investments out there. I am not looking for the big city excitement if it means putting my goals on hold. I figure if I am making like US 5K/month in net income, I can pretty much pull a Roosh.

I am making decent money out here, but I am not sleeping easy because 1. The economy goes to hell and I'm out of a job 2. I need to be locking down RE deals and I am not seeing the value opps.

Thoughts?

You are a complete fool if you are buying properties for appreciation in this market. ANYWHERE.

Buying anything in this market to hold as a rental only to break even is just plain poor judgment. I am getting 30% ROI cash-on-cash in my area, easily.

Moving to somewhere out West to invest is not the best idea. If you're actively involved in real estate, you are already keenly aware of the importance of knowing your market. Without being intimately familiar with a very particular market you are setting yourself up for failure.

Most RE markets are volatile as fuck right now. I've seen my portfolio decline in value 20% in the past 6 months from an influx of REOs diluting the market. Despite this, I am still well in the black.

My market is lower-middle income neighborhoods, brick rowhouses, with an ARV of $100-$120k and being invested in them for no more than 50% LTV.

$500/mo cashflow per month, per property is common. (my cashflow analysis ALWAYS takes into consideration ALL expenses associated with the property. Most investors only take PITI into account. Any seasoned investor knows this is shortsighted and stupid.)

With the future of interest rates, unemployment and market saturation you are FOOLISH to hedge your bets on appreciation. DO NOT COUNT ON THIS. If anything, count on DEPRECIATION of your properties in the next 10 years.
Do your numbers to take these things into account.

It's not 2007 anymore. The get-rich-quick scheme in real estate is dead.

Your not offering any advice here. Where are you located?

[BostonBMW]

(09-08-2011 09:15 AM)guey Wrote:  

I don't want to sound offensive, but I know this comment will sound very offensive to some:

In looking at what a lot of you have to say about Real Estate Investing, it's quite obvious that very few of you have ever actually invested in real estate first hand.

A caveat: You can lose a LOT of money in this business. It's a dog-eat-dog world full of liars and cheats. EVERYONE is your enemy. Especially real estate agents/wholesalers/"guru" morons. Treat EVERYTHING you are told with great skepticism. People lie through their teeth and still tell themselves they are ethical.

Buyer beware. Seriously.

There is nothing offensive about what you said, many of us have not invested in RE, which is why I started this thread. If I were an old pro, I wouldn't need advice.

By saying caveat emptor does not really add much to the discussion, its like saying read the contract carefully. Since, you have had the RE investing experience why don't you give us some pointers?

[BostonBMW]

(09-08-2011 10:29 AM)Dash Global Wrote:  

(09-08-2011 09:04 AM)guey Wrote:  

You are a complete fool if you are buying properties for appreciation in this market. ANYWHERE.

Buying anything in this market to hold as a rental only to break even is just plain poor judgment. I am getting 30% ROI cash-on-cash in my area, easily.

Moving to somewhere out West to invest is not the best idea. If you're actively involved in real estate, you are already keenly aware of the importance of knowing your market. Without being intimately familiar with a very particular market you are setting yourself up for failure.

Most RE markets are volatile as fuck right now. I've seen my portfolio decline in value 20% in the past 6 months from an influx of REOs diluting the market. Despite this, I am still well in the black.

My market is lower-middle income neighborhoods, brick rowhouses, with an ARV of $100-$120k and being invested in them for no more than 50% LTV.

$500/mo cashflow per month, per property is common. (my cashflow analysis ALWAYS takes into consideration ALL expenses associated with the property. Most investors only take PITI into account. Any seasoned investor knows this is shortsighted and stupid.)

With the future of interest rates, unemployment and market saturation you are FOOLISH to hedge your bets on appreciation. DO NOT COUNT ON THIS. If anything, count on DEPRECIATION of your properties in the next 10 years.
Do your numbers to take these things into account.

It's not 2007 anymore. The get-rich-quick scheme in real estate is dead.

I think you are misunderstanding Boston. I could be wrong though....

I think he is talking about buying LOW and through renovations MAKING the house appreciate. Generating profits /positive cashflow on the sell or through renting.

Some investors dont even care about turning a positive cashflow on some rentals as long as they break even. In 10 years the property could be paid off in full generating MAX cashflow. Not sure how having someone else pay off a mortgage / building equity is "poor judgment".

There are many poor markets but there is also good markets. My area I grew up in is experiencing ALOT of growth. Tons of new commercial and residential areas are popping up all over the place.

Im curious about your 500$ cashflow per property. Care to break out the numbers?

Precisely my point, Dash. I think that there is a difference between adding real value through renovations, improvements that will fetch higher rents and doing nothing and expecting the RE market to appreciate.

If you buy an abandoned property, fix it up, and rent it out..the property is bound to appreciate in value -- you are going from $0 cashflow to $X Dollars.

I would also like to see the $500 cashflow per property breakdown.

[IrishmanSoFlo]

Interesting thread,
I recently moved from europe to South Florida,and am in process of buying a 2/1.5 townhouse near downtown Fort Laud,mostly furnished for about 90k,it sold in 2007 for 260k,if you have the cash flow it's a good time to buy,its foreclosure/shortsale central here.
I also know a guy in north Florida who buys properties in need of renovation and resells making maybe 30k per property,sometimes doing the financing himself,you need to take into account HoA fee's and random maintainence,plus the hassles of dealing with Joe Public.

[TudoBem]

(08-29-2011 10:49 PM)BostonBMW Wrote:  

So I am on the daily hustle, eyes on the prize: to make enough money to not have to work.

My field is real estate. Recently I have been scouring the listings and trying to do analyses to make the numbers work, Boston like the rest of the metropolitan Bos-Wash corridor is horrendous when it comes to positive cash flow...its like squeezing blood from a turnip.

The only possibilities I am seeing is some of the industrial/old mill cities of New England, they aren't ghetto per se, however definitely on the rough side. I am torn between:

Option A:

Buying a solid, well located property that barely breaks even, although may have some appreciation potential (if the US isn't bankrupted and the world doesn't end).

Option B:

Buying a cash cow that will give me some regular income, but forget about being able to enjoy any appreciation?

Option C:

Say F it and move out to the Midwest or the Rockies and start piling on investments out there. I am not looking for the big city excitement if it means putting my goals on hold. I figure if I am making like US 5K/month in net income, I can pretty much pull a Roosh.

I am making decent money out here, but I am not sleeping easy because 1. The economy goes to hell and I'm out of a job 2. I need to be locking down RE deals and I am not seeing the value opps.

Thoughts?

How are your Spanish language skills? How comfortable are you dealing with opaque legal and regulatory environments where unofficial payments are commonplace?

If you can handle it, I would say invest in Veneuela, that is where a huge profit stands to be made.

You will have to be creative in terms of how you make your purchase. The black market for dollars is huge, and if you purchase a property based on the official rate for the Bolivar, you will be screwed. Figure out how to get your coveted American dollars to whoever is selling.

Don't listen to the endless crap about Brazil and the world cup and the olympics. This is a bandwagon, and all of the low hanging fruit in terms of pricing opportunities has passed. THE time to invest in Brazil was in 2002 right before Lula's election, when investor hysteria created capital flight and sent the real up to 4/$.

Chavez will be dead soon. The heavy oil tar in the Orinoco area will provide hundreds of billions to the Venezuelan economy in the coming decades.

There will not be another Chavez, and the various factions of Venezuelan society will reach some sort of arrangment, which no matter how bad it is, will be much better for stability and growth than anything in the past.

Everyone is so scared about what they read in the papers regarding violence and property confiscation, that it is a perfect time.

Fortunes are made when there is blood in the streets.

[Hencredible Casanova]

Unless you can get a good deal in straight cash homey, I think real estate is a risky illiquid move.

Big story today about that broker in Queens who ran a huge $50 million mortgage fraud that victimized his own people (Guyanese New Yorkers). Since that bubble burst and fueled a global financial meltdown, that industry is mad uncertain due to pending regulations and investor unease.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/09/nyregi...rants.html

[BostonBMW]

(01-09-2012 07:11 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

Unless you can get a good deal in straight cash homey, I think real estate is a risky illiquid move.

Big story today about that broker in Queens who ran a huge $50 million mortgage fraud that victimized his own people (Guyanese New Yorkers). Since that bubble burst and fueled a global financial meltdown, that industry is mad uncertain due to pending regulations and investor unease.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/09/nyregi...rants.html

Yo in NYC, prices are still in the stratosphere! Up here in Boston - New England, its a little bit better. Some spots in the old mill towns have dropped in value since 2008.

I had read that article in the morning -- I still fail to see what exactly he did that was an less horrible than Angelo Mozilo (google that tanned freak if you must)? Only difference was that Ahmad hustled among his own people, rather than all of America (like Countrywide did). Mozilo got away with it (paid a fine) so why shouldn't he?

No doubt Real Estate is illiquid, but I don't need that cash money sitting in the bank or in the market losing value. I am trying to build a monthly cash flow not a one time pay day. If you can suggest anything else that I can do while holding down FT employment, and setting me up for a nice cash flow in the future, I'd be willing to look into it.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(01-09-2012 11:55 PM)BostonBMW Wrote:  

(01-09-2012 07:11 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

Unless you can get a good deal in straight cash homey, I think real estate is a risky illiquid move.

Big story today about that broker in Queens who ran a huge $50 million mortgage fraud that victimized his own people (Guyanese New Yorkers). Since that bubble burst and fueled a global financial meltdown, that industry is mad uncertain due to pending regulations and investor unease.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/09/nyregi...rants.html

Yo in NYC, prices are still in the stratosphere! Up here in Boston - New England, its a little bit better. Some spots in the old mill towns have dropped in value since 2008.

I had read that article in the morning -- I still fail to see what exactly he did that was an less horrible than Angelo Mozilo (google that tanned freak if you must)? Only difference was that Ahmad hustled among his own people, rather than all of America (like Countrywide did). Mozilo got away with it (paid a fine) so why shouldn't he?

No doubt Real Estate is illiquid, but I don't need that cash money sitting in the bank or in the market losing value. I am trying to build a monthly cash flow not a one time pay day. If you can suggest anything else that I can do while holding down FT employment, and setting me up for a nice cash flow in the future, I'd be willing to look into it.

Yeah Angelo was a monster. You make a good point about this guy vs. Angelo. I think Angelo got off because he had longer reach into the halls of power--CT Sen. Dodd personally received a favorable mortgage from Countrywide. I know Michael Moore covered Angelo a little bit in his capitalism doc, but Al Jazeera did a beast special on the whole financial collapse called Meltdown, which really breaks it down.

Anyway, you have patience so that's cool. I didn't read your post so I didn't know. Gone are the days where you can just "buy and hold" for a few years and make a nice profit. If you're looking long-term, then real estate has a different perspective. And being in New England, the market is much more scalable. NYC is crazy and there are significant barriers to entry into that market.

[BostonBMW]

(01-10-2012 12:27 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

(01-09-2012 11:55 PM)BostonBMW Wrote:  

(01-09-2012 07:11 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

Unless you can get a good deal in straight cash homey, I think real estate is a risky illiquid move.

Big story today about that broker in Queens who ran a huge $50 million mortgage fraud that victimized his own people (Guyanese New Yorkers). Since that bubble burst and fueled a global financial meltdown, that industry is mad uncertain due to pending regulations and investor unease.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/09/nyregi...rants.html

Yo in NYC, prices are still in the stratosphere! Up here in Boston - New England, its a little bit better. Some spots in the old mill towns have dropped in value since 2008.

I had read that article in the morning -- I still fail to see what exactly he did that was an less horrible than Angelo Mozilo (google that tanned freak if you must)? Only difference was that Ahmad hustled among his own people, rather than all of America (like Countrywide did). Mozilo got away with it (paid a fine) so why shouldn't he?

No doubt Real Estate is illiquid, but I don't need that cash money sitting in the bank or in the market losing value. I am trying to build a monthly cash flow not a one time pay day. If you can suggest anything else that I can do while holding down FT employment, and setting me up for a nice cash flow in the future, I'd be willing to look into it.

Yeah Angelo was a monster. You make a good point about this guy vs. Angelo. I think Angelo got off because he had longer reach into the halls of power--CT Sen. Dodd personally received a favorable mortgage from Countrywide. I know Michael Moore covered Angelo a little bit in his capitalism doc, but Al Jazeera did a beast special on the whole financial collapse called Meltdown, which really breaks it down.

Anyway, you have patience so that's cool. I didn't read your post so I didn't know. Gone are the days where you can just "buy and hold" for a few years and make a nice profit. If you're looking long-term, then real estate has a different perspective. And being in New England, the market is much more scalable. NYC is crazy and there are significant barriers to entry into that market.

Exactly.

I am in it for the long run. Cash flow over profit. I looked at NYC as an entry point. Some Co-ops in Midwood, Forest Hills in Queens,and Riverdale up in BX -- but the whole board BS made me realize why the sellers were selling at lower price. Besides if I can rent it out, the investment would be worthless to me.

[kdolo]

(08-29-2011 10:49 PM)BostonBMW Wrote:  

So I am on the daily hustle, eyes on the prize: to make enough money to not have to work.

My field is real estate. Recently I have been scouring the listings and trying to do analyses to make the numbers work, Boston like the rest of the metropolitan Bos-Wash corridor is horrendous when it comes to positive cash flow...its like squeezing blood from a turnip.

The only possibilities I am seeing is some of the industrial/old mill cities of New England, they aren't ghetto per se, however definitely on the rough side. I am torn between:

Option A:

Buying a solid, well located property that barely breaks even, although may have some appreciation potential (if the US isn't bankrupted and the world doesn't end).

Option B:

Buying a cash cow that will give me some regular income, but forget about being able to enjoy any appreciation?

Option C:

Say F it and move out to the Midwest or the Rockies and start piling on investments out there. I am not looking for the big city excitement if it means putting my goals on hold. I figure if I am making like US 5K/month in net income, I can pretty much pull a Roosh.

I am making decent money out here, but I am not sleeping easy because 1. The economy goes to hell and I'm out of a job 2. I need to be locking down RE deals and I am not seeing the value opps.

Thoughts?

Option B. Why ?

1. Stay with what you know and understand. Moving means having to learn the local ropes ...which can take years sometimes.

2. Investment means securing income while chasing appreciation is really speculation. don't speculate - ... invest.