[Kaizen]

Interested to hear insights from those players who have been to both places

I have already been to Kiev.

While Moscow is clearly much more expensive, there seems to be different opinions as to whether that cost is justified.

Look forward to any responses.

[Vinny]

I have been to both, but only gamed in Kiev. I did some damage in 2nd tier Russia, Krasnodar and St. Petersburg.

In my opinion Moscow is too expensive, and the slight increase in quality is not enough to compensate for the price tag difference. I would go there for a short time as a tourist, but would prefer second tier Russia for a long term stay.

Even amongst other Russians Moscovites are known as rude. There are also too many darker Caucasians in Moscow, who are very unpredictable. I had some conflicts with them during nightgame, but managed to escape untouched due to being able to stand my ground. I would like to avoid these interractions in future.

[icrus]

Haven't been to Kiev, but in terms of girls only, I can hardly imagine the cost difference being justified. Moscow became expensive af again. I rarely drop less than 5k on a night out and that's with watching my money and not buying girls drinks. And I'm talking not drinking like a fish at the high-end places like Siberia.

BUT! You can do Moscow on the cheap as well, if you go to the rowdier, low-end pivbars and Coyote Uglys, it's gonna cost you way less. A ton of cheaper hipster places have sprung up as well in the recent years. Cannot say much about quality of girls there, because that's not my thing. Please don't expect models in heels there though.

Moscow is rude indeed. Bar staff often treats you like shit. I've had a hard time befriending bar staff here, it's something I clearly need to work on. One of the few places they treated me well was at my bookie's bar lol.

Have never had any problems with fights or any of that sorts. Also not with immigrants, tbf I don't see them at the places I go to. Russians look down on them and I must admit that you pretty quickly adapt that mindset. Best to avoid talkig to guys at night at all, they might start talking to you though, if they can hear you speak English.

One thing that Moscow probably has a big headstart on is the lower amount of love tourists. From the vibe I am getting here, Kiev is full with Turks and Italians. Moscow doesn't have a lot of tourists for a city of that size.

If you can bankroll it though, it's probably the best city to be in, along with NYC. The high-end women are shameless golddiggers/whores, but they are so damn hot, it's gonna make you salivate in the desert.

One more thing: can absolutely not support the statement that 2nd tier Russia is better for long-term. I've been to a few Russian cities now and they're all the damn same. Ugly, grey, depressive, boring. Literally the only sight to see are the women and at least in the cities I've been to (Nizhny, Vladimir, Tver, Crimea), the quality doesn't compare to Moscow. Nightlife is a joke, you often will feel beamed back to the 90s in the nightclubs. Ratios are good yes, but forget taking a girl home, because it is very much a dating/marriage culture. That might be paradise to the people who wish they were born i the 50s and dream of marrying their unicorn virgin, but if you're aspiring to the international playboy lifestyle, please spare yourself your time and your money.

[churros]

(05-15-2017 11:46 PM)icrus Wrote:  

One more thing: can absolutely not support the statement that 2nd tier Russia is better for long-term. I've been to a few Russian cities now and they're all the damn same. Ugly, grey, depressive, boring. Literally the only sight to see are the women and at least in the cities I've been to (Nizhny, Vladimir, Tver, Crimea), the quality doesn't compare to Moscow. Nightlife is a joke, you often will feel beamed back to the 90s in the nightclubs. Ratios are good yes, but forget taking a girl home, because it is very much a dating/marriage culture. That might be paradise to the people who wish they were born i the 50s and dream of marrying their unicorn virgin, but if you're aspiring to the international playboy lifestyle, please spare yourself your time and your money.

Only second tier mentioned was piter, which you left out...

[Chaos]

Quote:

BUT! You can do Moscow on the cheap as well

What would you say is a reasonable monthly budget for Moscow including everything except nightlife?

[icrus]

To say Piter in Russia is second tier is like saying Glasgow is second tier in Scotland. There are only two significant cities in Russian, Moscow and Piter. Even though Moscow is much bigger in terms of population. Real second tier is Krasnodar, Nizhny, Kazan, Novosibirsk. Some of the cities I mentioned are outsized villages. Pretty sure Vinny agrees on this.

Budget: depends, really. How do you want to live? You can get a flat on the outskirts of Moscow, but still within Metro reach, for maybe 25-30k. That's ballpark 400-500€. 60 rides on the metro are another 30€, might need 1,5-2 of those per month if you live that far out. Food I'd estimate is maybe around 300€ per month. Could be less. So somewhere around 700-800€ minimum, if you're renting, no leisure included. Makes sense, because I've heard of friends' students who live on 25k rubles per month (about 400€). That's excluding rent.

I drop about double that money and I'm enjoying myself but by no means making it rain. I could easily spend five times that much, living in an even nicer flat, eating out at better places, dating high-end girls, going to strip clubs etc pp. There's really no upper limit, so the goal is to make it there

[Rocha]

(05-15-2017 11:46 PM)icrus Wrote:  

One thing that Moscow probably has a big headstart on is the lower amount of love tourists. From the vibe I am getting here, Kiev is full with Turks and Italians. Moscow doesn't have a lot of tourists for a city of that size.

True regarding Turks as all of Ukraine, false regarding Italians, you can see an older lone wolf here and there, and a group of 2-3 guys maximum once in a while, nothing in comparison with what you see in Poland, Prague or the Baltics. There is more Americans than Italians in Kiev.

[Vinny]

(05-15-2017 11:46 PM)icrus Wrote:  

One more thing: can absolutely not support the statement that 2nd tier Russia is better for long-term. I've been to a few Russian cities now and they're all the damn same. Ugly, grey, depressive, boring. Literally the only sight to see are the women and at least in the cities I've been to (Nizhny, Vladimir, Tver, Crimea), the quality doesn't compare to Moscow. Nightlife is a joke, you often will feel beamed back to the 90s in the nightclubs. Ratios are good yes, but forget taking a girl home, because it is very much a dating/marriage culture. That might be paradise to the people who wish they were born i the 50s and dream of marrying their unicorn virgin, but if you're aspiring to the international playboy lifestyle, please spare yourself your time and your money.

We seemed to have been to totally different cities in terms of 2nd tier.

St. Petes is great and Krasnodar is one of the best cities in Russia for quality of life
http://nko.krasnodar.ru/?p=688

What it tells me though is bad news, cause I was planning a big 2nd tier Russia trip. My experiences in Russia were always somewhat good.
Being from EE myself gives me high tolerance of greyness and architectural ugliness.

One of the hottest girls I fucked up to this day was from 2nd Tier Russia. Yes she wanted a relationship, yes she was not easy, but god it was worth it.

Since when is Crimea a city, as far as I know there is a big difference between cities of Crimea itself, which one have you visited?

[icrus]

I was in Yalta and Sevastopol. I have to correct that one a bit, since they are coastal cities they are not as grey and depressing as all the others. I imagine Krasnodar and Sochi are similar. I was just not that impressed by the nature and the beaches. I've been two dozen times to Croatia, so a concrete beach doesn't wow me. That is not to say that it isn't nice there. I'd just take other cities and beach resorts over that.

As I said, I've been mostly to outsized villages. I want to go to Kazan myself, because I totally dig Tatar girls. But I'd never bother to go to Omsk, Tomsk, Tyumen or whatever other hole. If the trip has a theme other than girls such as nature, then by all means. But I'd never go for game only.

[Chaos]

Quote:

Literally the only sight to see are the women

Take the women away from Russia and they got nothing.

Quote:

I imagine Krasnodar and Sochi are similar.

Sochi is not pretty,can't recommend anyone to go there.

Quote:

What it tells me though is bad news, cause I was planning a big 2nd tier Russia trip. My experiences in Russia were always somewhat good.

I have been to more than 20 Russian 2nd and 3rd tier cities all over the country and I would say you should definitely go if you are even slighty interested. It's a trip of a lifetime.

I'm very tempted of doing another trip this summer.

[jselysianeagle]

(05-17-2017 02:41 AM)Chaos Wrote:  

I have been to more than 20 Russian 2nd and 3rd tier cities all over the country and I would say you should definitely go if you are even slighty interested. It's a trip of a lifetime.

:evil grin: c'mon man, don't leave us hangin! What made it the trip of a lifetime? Legendary poosay????

[edlefou]

(05-16-2017 12:10 AM)Chaos Wrote:  

Quote:

BUT! You can do Moscow on the cheap as well

What would you say is a reasonable monthly budget for Moscow including everything except nightlife?

In 2015 and 2016 for me:

Rent: 100K roubles/month
Everything else: 2,000 roubles/day (average)
A night out: 3-10K roubles

[edlefou]

(05-15-2017 06:58 PM)Kaizen Wrote:  

Interested to hear insights from those players who have been to both places

I have already been to Kiev.

While Moscow is clearly much more expensive, there seems to be different opinions as to whether that cost is justified.

Look forward to any responses.

Moscow is my favorite city in Europe. Is the high cost justified? No. But I love it and keep going back. Not just for the women. It's got a good vibe. I spent 2 months there last year. If rent were cheaper I'd stay longer.

I really like Kiev too. I lived there 6 months last year. In my opinion it's a slight step down from Moscow, but infinitely cheaper and no visa hassles. Not a place to go only for the women. Also has a good energy.

In both places it's perfectly normal to act like a man.

[nzd]

(05-17-2017 09:37 AM)edlefou Wrote:  

(05-15-2017 06:58 PM)Kaizen Wrote:  

Interested to hear insights from those players who have been to both places

I have already been to Kiev.

While Moscow is clearly much more expensive, there seems to be different opinions as to whether that cost is justified.

Look forward to any responses.

Moscow is my favorite city in Europe. Is the high cost justified? No. But I love it and keep going back. Not just for the women. It's got a good vibe. I spent 2 months there last year. If rent were cheaper I'd stay longer.

I really like Kiev too. I lived there 6 months last year. In my opinion it's a slight step down from Moscow, but infinitely cheaper and no visa hassles. Not a place to go only for the women. Also has a good energy.

In both places it's perfectly normal to act like a man.

How different the women in Kiev and Moscow or St Pete?

[edlefou]

Moscow are the best, but Kiev is the best bang for your buck. Piter has more hipsters/scammers.

Roosh described them well in a recent phone-in.

[AsiaBaller]

(05-17-2017 09:37 AM)edlefou Wrote:  

Moscow is my favorite city in Europe. Is the high cost justified? No. But I love it and keep going back. Not just for the women. It's got a good vibe. I spent 2 months there last year. If rent were cheaper I'd stay longer.

I really like Kiev too. I lived there 6 months last year. In my opinion it's a slight step down from Moscow, but infinitely cheaper and no visa hassles. Not a place to go only for the women. Also has a good energy.

In both places it's perfectly normal to act like a man.

So you live in Colombia where people are rather open and warm hearted and it's sunny and you like frozen Moscow where people are cold and hostile as fuck?

I get mad just by passing through their crappy soviet airport.

[Aquarius]

(03-14-2018 09:47 AM)AsiaBaller Wrote:  

(05-17-2017 09:37 AM)edlefou Wrote:  

Moscow is my favorite city in Europe. Is the high cost justified? No. But I love it and keep going back. Not just for the women. It's got a good vibe. I spent 2 months there last year. If rent were cheaper I'd stay longer.

I really like Kiev too. I lived there 6 months last year. In my opinion it's a slight step down from Moscow, but infinitely cheaper and no visa hassles. Not a place to go only for the women. Also has a good energy.

In both places it's perfectly normal to act like a man.

So you live in Colombia where people are rather open and warm hearted and it's sunny and you like frozen Moscow where people are cold and hostile as fuck?

I get mad just by passing through their crappy soviet airport.

Sheremetyevo Airport is indeed a sad Soviet relic with extremely slow and disorganized customs, and after baggage claim, a swarm of aggressive Caucasian gypsy cab drivers immediately try to harass you; the M10 that takes you into the city is extremely congested with semis and shabby looking for an airport road in a first tier city.

But Moscow, especially its center, is a vibrant high energy world class city with a very developed economy, has all the Western amenities that you want, and has a very European vibe with an extreme amount of hotties. The under-30s in Moscow, who are the ones you'll be banging, are actually a rather positive bunch with a traditional European lifestyle and mindset. In fact, when I was there, the feeling I got is that its what a Western megacity like Paris is SUPPOSED to look and feel like if Cultural Marxism and immigration didn't ruin it. From an Asian perspective, Seoul's vibe can actually be compared to Moscow's with both being cold weather world class high energy megacities that aren't very foreigner friendly, which is a positive if you want to experience real European culture, not the cosmopolitan EU "European" culture in Berlin and Paris.

Regarding Kiev, has the Euromaidan drastically changed the vibe from the pre-2014 days, or has the quality of girls and the vibe in general didn't change much with the revolution?

[Rocha]

(03-15-2018 02:40 AM)Aquarius Wrote:  

.

Regarding Kiev, has the Euromaidan drastically changed the vibe from the pre-2014 days, or has the quality of girls and the vibe in general didn't change much with the revolution?

There is still great quality around despite some migration to other places. But the vibe changed a lot...No money no funny.

[nzd]

(03-15-2018 09:33 AM)Rocha Wrote:  

(03-15-2018 02:40 AM)Aquarius Wrote:  

.

Regarding Kiev, has the Euromaidan drastically changed the vibe from the pre-2014 days, or has the quality of girls and the vibe in general didn't change much with the revolution?

There is still great quality around despite some migration to other places. But the vibe changed a lot...No money no funny.

changed in what way? do they hate Russian speakers?

[Rocha]

(03-15-2018 01:24 PM)nzd Wrote:  

(03-15-2018 09:33 AM)Rocha Wrote:  

(03-15-2018 02:40 AM)Aquarius Wrote:  

.

Regarding Kiev, has the Euromaidan drastically changed the vibe from the pre-2014 days, or has the quality of girls and the vibe in general didn't change much with the revolution?

There is still great quality around despite some migration to other places. But the vibe changed a lot...No money no funny.

changed in what way? do they hate Russian speakers?

Of course not. Everyone speaks Russian in Kiev.
Just the economic situation became dramatic for many people, and many venues closed, so much less people afford going out. For a city of its size the choices on a weekday to have a glass are very subpar, some years ago there was party everyday of the week, except maybe Monday.

[Count Pierre]

(03-15-2018 04:17 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

Of course not. Everyone speaks Russian in Kiev.

No. More and more people take pride to speak solely ukrainian, to the point that it's becoming ridiculous. That said, it's understandable, you don't want to speak the language of the country you're at war with.

About Moscow vs Kiev ..... compared to Moscow, nightlife in Kiev is like village vs big city.

[Rocha]

(03-15-2018 05:03 PM)Count Pierre Wrote:  

(03-15-2018 04:17 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

Of course not. Everyone speaks Russian in Kiev.

No. More and more people take pride to speak solely ukrainian, to the point that it's becoming ridiculous. That said, it's understandable, you don't want to speak the language of the country you're at war with.

About Moscow vs Kiev ..... compared to Moscow, nightlife in Kiev is like village vs big city.

Not a good assessment you make, even though yours "more and more" is not a denial of what I wrote.

After Maidan in 2014 there was more people speaking Ukrainian than nowadays. Nobody gives a shit about language, they speak mostly the language they grew up with.

[Count Pierre]

(03-15-2018 02:40 AM)Aquarius Wrote:  

But Moscow, especially its center, is a vibrant high energy world class city with an extreme amount of hotties.

Absolutely. Every dump from Vladivostok to Murmansk send its hottest and finest for a chance at Bright Light Big City.

[nzd]

I want to stay for two months April and May in Kiev, Moscow or St. P and except women I really want to explore the culture and feel the vibe. I don't like to move from place to place. Which one will give me the most value for being a foreigner with good Russian skills? Where are the most family oriented, church going women? what are the monthly expenses in all three cities for rent or airbnb in central location with a decent transport? Which is the safest city?

[Count Pierre]

(03-15-2018 05:36 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

Nobody gives a shit about language, they speak mostly the language they grew up with.

From my experience, people do give a shit (once more, you do not want to speak the language of the country you are at war with, and even people whose native language is russian now make the effort to speak ukrainian), and authorities also for that matter ...for example, the Rada introduced a minimum 75 % quota for ukrainian-language shows on television, and a new law that requires the use of the state language (ukrainian) in state bodies and in public spheres of life, such as advertising, mass media, education, science, cultural activities, ect. Of course, the law does not apply to private communication, but nowadays with national pride at peak level (understandable for a country at war), it's politically correct to at least make the effort to speak ukrainian.