[GymBro]

If I'm not pulling a girl from a bar or club I'll usually settle for a number. I also get numbers from dating sites.

5-10 years ago I'd often have girls initiate conversations via text, ask me how my day is going, blow up my phone etc.

Nowadays I've noticed that girls never initiate - even girls I've danced and made out with. A lot of my messages also go unanswered. If I don't make an effort, they'll drop off forever.

Has anyone else noticed this over the years? Why is this happening now? How do you deal with it?

[Windom Earle]

Short answer - increase your value/up your game.

[Vincent Chase]

Girls obviously have just more options with all the technology shit and have all the attention whoring they could ever crave for with the latest instagram and snapchat shite, it has just kept getting worse every year. This is techology for children for photo sharing which women have made grow exponentially out of pure attention whoring. Not to mention the sugar daddy websites, they can now connect to hundreds of local wealthy men (plus the chancers and pychophaths) in the click of an amateur whore's red nailed finger and get paid for dinners/get urinated on to their hearts content.

So of course women are going to be more flaky and more blase to any random guy. Dancing/kissing girls means nothing these days.

Half the women I fuck go ghost afterwards. That's what society tells them now it is just "fun", no one is a slut. They will self rationalise whatever they want afterwards. You should be thankful at least that banging a random girl is as easy as 1,2,3. Keeping them around is another story.

Higher value/more abudance appears the only way at the moment. It is however an individual solution to a problem which requires a collective effort which is where men really let themselves down on.

The cock carousel is a mighty machine. We are all just one small part of it.

Make your cock stand out.

My cock is loud wing flapping, his head held high and the chest puffed out.

Let us not worry. Sex robots are just around the corner.

[Fightersword]

I've noticed that some girls will never message me first even when having dated/banged them a lot, but others will. I'm not sure if that has to do with their personality, or me not showing enough value, or both. It may be happening more often as social media continues to boost and boost girl's self perceived value, hence fewer and fewer of them will *ever* message first no matter the circumstances.

The unanswered messages thing is normal though, especially if you just are taking a number. They either gave you the number out of a sense of politeness with no intention of answering, or they lose interest between when you got the number and when you messaged her. That's why same day dates/same day bangs are preferred if at all possible: they don't give the girl time to decide she doesn't really like you.

[GymBro]

(05-07-2017 09:56 AM)Vincent Chase Wrote:  

Girls obviously have just more options with all the technology shit and have all the attention whoring they could ever crave for with the latest instagram and snapchat shite, it has just kept getting worse every year. This is techology for children for photo sharing which women have made grow exponentially out of pure attention whoring. Not to mention the sugar daddy websites, they can now connect to hundreds of local wealthy men (plus the chancers and pychophaths) in the click of an amateur whore's red nailed finger and get paid for dinners/get urinated on to their hearts content.

So of course women are going to be more flaky and more blase to any random guy. Dancing/kissing girls means nothing these days.

Half the women I fuck go ghost afterwards. That's what society tells them now it is just "fun", no one is a slut. They will self rationalise whatever they want afterwards. You should be thankful at least that banging a random girl is as easy as 1,2,3. Keeping them around is another story.

Higher value/more abudance appears the only way at the moment. It is however an individual solution to a problem which requires a collective effort which is where men really let themselves down on.

The cock carousel is a mighty machine. We are all just one small part of it.

Make your cock stand out.

My cock is loud wing flapping, his head held high and the chest puffed out.

Let us not worry. Sex robots are just around the corner.

So has it come down to bang or bust? If you're not pulling and banging her from the bar or on the first date, you'll never see her again?

[Dantes]

Gymbro,

We should always strike while the iron is hot and push the interaction as far as it goes.

Fortunately, men in this community understand or seek to understand women for who they are. Women predominantly seek attention, validation and comfort in relationships. They also seek men to fill their time and calm their spinning minds. Instagram, Snapchat , and reality tv has worked to supplant real life interactions with men to satiate these needs.

With that said, women will still initiate with men they find desirable. The key is to becoming one of those men. We are witnessing a great dichotomy in American society which has basically divided men into two categories : those who get laid and those who don't. The middle ground is shrinking fast.

[Vaun]

I have noticed this too, but I think its all about the girl. Some do and some don't. But with the rise of narcissism due to social media, you can also say male thirst is at an all time high as well. All of these open avenues just create more opportunities to contact someone out of thin air. A girl on Tinder that posts her IG handle will get hit up there in droves. I've done it, many of us have too. Thats why I am always suspect now of women that dont have their personal social media set to private. Women get approached everywhere. You can even blame the rise of street approaching. Good looking girls get approached everyday, everywhere. Is there a way around it? Who knows.

High value works, but there is always someone with higher value than you. I think its the opposite approach. Mystery. Not the douche with the hat. I mean, you show up as a perceived high value guy, but tell her nothing about you, who you are, your last name, where you live, etc etc. Never bring to your place. Change the subject when she asks and give playful non answers. Block your social or keep it tight. Just be a mysteriously cool guy that shows her a good time. Then let her dig for more. That is what always has worked with me. The girls that dig for more really like you.

[Dantes]

Good post Vaugn

I had a conversation with another member yesterday relating to these points. As I mentioned, the middle ground is shrinking. When I was in college, guys who weren't good with girls still managed to get laid. They eventually sought to get the best quality they could manage and the smart ones ended up with girlfriends who at least had pleasant dispositions.

It's an interesting topic because on one hand it is getting more difficult, for many men. Conversely, there has never been a better time to have noncommittal sex with a variety of girls.

[Repo]

Apps like Tinder give girls wayyy more options than they had 10 years ago.

[RawGod]

(05-07-2017 09:56 AM)Vincent Chase Wrote:  

Girls obviously have just more options with all the technology shit and have all the attention whoring they could ever crave for with the latest instagram and snapchat shite, it has just kept getting worse every year. This is techology for children for photo sharing which women have made grow exponentially out of pure attention whoring. Not to mention the sugar daddy websites, they can now connect to hundreds of local wealthy men (plus the chancers and pychophaths) in the click of an amateur whore's red nailed finger and get paid for dinners/get urinated on to their hearts content.

So of course women are going to be more flaky and more blase to any random guy. Dancing/kissing girls means nothing these days.

Half the women I fuck go ghost afterwards. That's what society tells them now it is just "fun", no one is a slut. They will self rationalise whatever they want afterwards. You should be thankful at least that banging a random girl is as easy as 1,2,3. Keeping them around is another story.

Higher value/more abudance appears the only way at the moment. It is however an individual solution to a problem which requires a collective effort which is where men really let themselves down on.

The cock carousel is a mighty machine. We are all just one small part of it.

Make your cock stand out.

My cock is loud wing flapping, his head held high and the chest puffed out.

Let us not worry. Sex robots are just around the corner.

Fucking bleak, isn't it...

[Cattle Rustler]

You've never tried SA. You'll get bombarded with texts from girls acting like teenagers trying to get your attention.

[ziggystardust]

Basically what everyone is saying here.

There isn't much of a silver lining for the situation in it's current form. But... it's only a matter of time before the "middle ground" gets large enough and their experiences bad enough before they twig what's really happening. That women trade intimacy for attention and that the avenues in which they can get said attention are at all time high. But the pendulum will swing the other way, eventually. It will burst like the housing bubble. In the mean time, Social circle seems to be the only way for men with game (yes with game) to pursue anything longer than one night. Most people here understand the situation but it's still funny to see certain individuals attempting to Salvage the apps that have caused the problems, like a battered wife returning to her cheating hubby.

[jselysianeagle]

(05-07-2017 12:40 PM)ziggystardust Wrote:  

But the pendulum will swing the other way, eventually. It will burst like the housing bubble.

I don't think so. Predictions are that within a few decades, something like 70% of relationships will begin online, and I were to bet I'd say the vast majority of casual hooking up will also happen in this way. In the generation comin up right now (teens and 20s) a significant number rely almost entirely on Tinder etc for dates.

[ziggystardust]

I doubt any of the people doing the 'predicting' understand the term paradigm shift. It's much like the rise of nationalism (yes, this is a thing) among young people, in spite of mainstream propaganda attempting to quash it.

Regardless, in decades to come the conversation will not be about how many men are hooking up via online, but wether males should bother wasting time learning game and pursue real women or just have equal or better sex with robotic dolls along with augmented reality (VR).

If you want to see where most western countries are headed, in terms of relationships, look to Japan. It will be MGTOW as the cultural hegemony.

[Vaun]

(05-07-2017 02:10 PM)ziggystardust Wrote:  

If you want to see where most western countries are headed, in terms of relationships, look to Japan. It will be MGTOW as the cultural hegemony.

So with your assumption, how are the women reacting to all of this in Japan? Are they approaching men, getting more direct, readjusting their approach to land a guy for a lifetime? I haven't seen any proof of that.

And to the commenter that 70% of all relationships will come from online. I would argue we are fast approaching that now. All this does is give you the opportunity to stand out even more as a man with the confidence to actually approach a women in real life.

[CaptainChardonnay]

Brad Pitt rule. If Brad Pitt gave a chick his number who would be texting who first? Step up your game.

[jselysianeagle]

(05-07-2017 02:41 PM)Vaun Wrote:  

And to the commenter that 70% of all relationships will come from online. I would argue we are fast approaching that now. All this does is give you the opportunity to stand out even more as a man with the confidence to actually approach a women in real life.

As an avid daygamer, I'd like to think you're right. But again, I'm not so sure that even the tightest game can compete with the endless attention even the 5s and 6s are getting from guys 2+ leagues above them on Tinder etc.

You could spit game at a 7, say, for a few hours, and later that same day/week, she matches with some hunk on Tinder who in real life would never approach her, but would still pump and dump her as his Wednesday night side chick. Meanwhile she's thinking, "I just matched with this super hot guy, it must mean I can do so much better [than the guy who actually approached me]!"

I am starting to see this even now - shit, I've been at clubs where instead of checking out the guys, the girls will be on Tinder swiping away.

I suspect that one's SMV will in the long run be all that matters, regardless of one's level of game.

[kaotic]

Guys you're missing the BIGGER picture.

Women were never meant to initiate conversation with (in general, BUT there are times they do).

Men are the ones who LEAD the initiate, conversation, date, etc.

The downside, which has been mentioned - women have a bagful of dicks in their hands at all times.

That's called an iPhone, loaded with dating apps and throngs of thirsty dudes.

SMV definitely has a role to play in this of course, but the rise of social media towers over this.

[Vaun]

(05-07-2017 03:32 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

Guys you're missing the BIGGER picture.

Women were never meant to initiate conversation with (in general, BUT there are times they do).

Men are the ones who LEAD the initiate, conversation, date, etc.

Completely agree, but she has to give something back, she has to reciprocate. At any stage. Getting her to initiate all or most contact should be the goal. Getting them to that point is the hard part.

[Ballr]

A fast reality check when a girl likes to idle via text: "Oh you're one of those..." and leave it at that. This is like soft way of smoothing out her ego.

The answer is probably, just play the numbers game and keep your schedule full of leads. Unfortunately, we're the generation that gets to deal with the beginning, middle, and hopefully the end of all this fuckery. Maybe in 3-5 years the paradigm will change and girls will begin to act like real ladies and slide back into their submissive role.

- Accepting the playing field is step 1

- Step 2 is taking trips outside the USA to feed your manhood again. Girls are still pleasant overseas

[robreke]

They will in certain foreign countries.

They also will in the West if you have high enough perceived value.

With either stronger value than hers and some attraction or simply strong attraction, they will.

If you have higher perceived value than them and and solid attraction, that's where the real cheesecake is.

[lonewolf1992]

I agree with the others, Tighen up your SMV/game and even the most bitchy and rudest will turn into a sugar plum. Forget to style your hair like that day or make a little mistake and they will not even notice you exist.

[Sensei Creation]

My wingman number closed today in London and literally 5 mins after we walked away his set texted him " Was nice to meet you.". It's happened to me a couple times, albeit rarely.

[Sensei Creation]

The truth is though, it really doesn't matter who starts the conversation. Is she responsive to your game ? That's all that matters tbh.

[ziggystardust]

Yeah, Value is important. Game is important.

The problem is that your 'value' has to be able to compete with dozens, potentially hundreds, of orbiters at a whim. So you're going to be left hanging by girls who (should be) lower value than yourself. The fact is, that chicks are less committed at keeping arrangements with strangers than they've ever been. The mystery and alure of it has pretty much been killed off by tinder/okc/pof. On top of that, a lot of game concepts - such as push and pull, spacing your texts within hours (somtimes days) to keep her in suspense are met with pure radio silence. She doesn't need to wait for your text anymore, not when there are 100 other options on her phone to choose from.

At this point in the game, having value as well as building strong levels of comfort are the most important facet to keep a girl around.

Unfortunately, this doesn't happen with the average tinder/ club ONS anymore, of whom ghosts after the first date/lay and doesn't give you a chance to build said comfort. But it can happen within a social circle - which btw - is where most of the mini relationships/LTR's/FWB are happening for Millenials / Gen Z kids - coming from someone within that age group. What I'm talking about here isn't some new concept either, Roosh pretty much predicted it from one of his blogs last year :

Quote:

I’m also encountering a lot of complaints from men that internet game is getting worse. Specific services like Tinder and OK Cupid experienced a heyday where using them provided at least some value, but then uglier women and thirsty men piled in, causing lower yields. This is why for the near future I believe that the two best ways to meet quality women will be through day game and social circle. Day game is hard enough that it will never go mainstream while social circle game gives you VIP access to women that are harder to meet through cold approaching.

You don't have to trust me on this. The oracle himself has spoken on it before, and he's usually right to a fault with these long term predictions.