[stugatz]

I've made too many posts in the Orthodox Church thread about the Tridentine Mass (Latin language mass) for comfort. It's time to start my own thread at this point.

I strongly distrust our current pope, and I'd for years been sick of the Christian-rock infected Catholic church that's existed since the Vatican II reforms...so I've begun attending a traditionalist church recently. The masses are all in Latin, there's a strict dress code, and the congregation on average has a large amount of people under thirty. I'm stunned I found this, and I'm almost a little sad I didn't do it at the beginning of college...it would have saved me years of floundering around in the cucked college fraternity scene.

Anyone else on here attending Latin masses? Thoughts?

I would also like to mention breakaway traditionalist movements, since quite a few outraged Christians on Vox Day's comment section drew my attention to them and say their masses are far superior.

A quick background - before the Tridentine Mass was brought back under Pope Benedict, rebel traditionalist orders existed after Vatican II and continued to hold the mass in Latin, the best known being the Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX). In 1988, when consecrations of new bishops under the order commenced, Pope John Paul II responded by excommunicating all involved.

Pope Benedict XVI lifted the excommunications of the bishops when he began allowing Latin masses again, but the damage has been done, and possibly permanently if Catholicism continues in its current lefty direction. Francis has a good decade left, perhaps more. (If he does something REALLY crazy like completely sell out on homosexuality, it wouldn't surprise me to see Traditionalist Catholics, even including quite a few Eastern Rite churches all break off and consider communion with the Orthodox churches. It might be necessary at this point, just hack off the festering limb already.)

There are multiple traditionalist orders today, quite a few in good standing with Rome (like the one that runs the church I attend), some in imperfect communion (SSPX), and some in literal schism, claiming that all popes post-Vatican II are heretics (the Society of St. Pius V is the biggest one of those, I believe, and they're an SSPX breakaway).

Has anyone attended any masses run by these guys? SSPX, like I said earlier, has masses that have been highly recommended to me, and I'm curious to quietly attend a service or two to get my ducks in a row in case Francis goes nuts.

[stugatz]

I need to mention as a post-script that Traditionalist Catholicism scares the hell out of the media - remember Mel Gibson's little rant, and how he couldn't get a job in Hollywood long after The Passion and Apocalypto came and went? He's a Traditionalist, and they'd been waiting for that footage for years.

He's a particularly zealous one, though, and I'm unsure of what order he associates with - quite a few are rabidly anti-Semitic and make SSPX look tame. Since I'm considering the sources I've read, many of these allegations are probably exaggerated to smear the movements. (The Wikipedia article on traditionalism talks about a few particularly radical movements that elected their own popes and are, I'd argue, cults in a way.)

[Paracelsus]

The main observation I would have is that if you have a deep conviction that the salvation of your immortal soul depends entirely on which Catholic Church tradition is correct and recognised by God, then look carefully into each of the movements and choose wisely.

One of the main reasons for this choice is that, depending on how hardline your sedevacantism is, it may literally have an impact on whether you need to get baptised again.

The reason for that is that some of the sedevacantist movements hold that the entire Catholic Church which emerged from Vatican II was no longer Catholic, i.e. any priest who was ordained by any bishop compliant with Vatican II was not validly ordained a priest, and therefore not able to validly administer the sacraments, including arguably baptism.

That indeed was the position of the first sedevacantist, Francis Schuckardt, who went on to found the Tridentine Latin Rite Catholic Church. In particular the 1968 revision to the rite of Holy Orders are held to be invalid, which would mean any priest or bishop ordained after 1968 does not validly hold their office and are therefore at best laymen, unable to administer Catholic sacraments. This would include Benedict and Francis. Thus the phrase sedevacantist, from the Latin sede vacante, seat vacant, i.e. the Seat of St. Peter has been vacant since the pontificate of Pius XII.

It also doesn't help that there are multiple sedevacantist movements, which don't necessarily agree on the theology. There is even sedeprivationism within the traditionalist movement, which holds that John 23, Paul 6, JP 1, JP 2, Benny, and Frank all became Pope materially but not formally, and if Frank or Benny recanted their adherence to modernist heresy, they would formally become Pope and thus resume the Catholic Church.

Understand also that most traditionalist Catholic movements are coming from a very different time to the Catholic Church you grew up with. Things that we tend to take for granted these days like historicism, separation of church and state, and modernism itself are verboten under the traditionalist Catholic Church. There is a much stronger requirement to obey Catholic precepts: no abortion, full stop. No contraception -- condom or chemical -- full stop. Individual conscience has much less role to play on this sort of issue. These are even harder lines than the Papacy itself takes. There is also a much less "communal" feeling to the movement, much more a sense the Church is the authority and you are very firmly part of the faith community, not a co-creator with God, not a co-celebrant. As an example, one of the biggest irritants the traditionalists pointed out with the revised Paul VI mass was that references to the sacrifice, altar and chalice were changed to bread, table, and cup. They held these revisions made the Mass about the community when it's actually about Christ and were designed at appealing to Protestants.

[stugatz]

To some degree I see the in-communion traditionalist movements as shackled to a corpse - while the church may have not officially gone leftist yet, well over half of the people in it are, and that certainly influences things. (I've met a number of actively homosexual "Catholics".) I think it's at least worth the effort, though, if it's getting young people excited about genuine religion again. They likely won't take it lying down if Francis turns Catholicism into just a huge version of the Episcopal Church and starts blessing abortions and homosexual unions.

(I would still be quite shocked if he did - he can't be THAT stupid. The recent dustup in the United Methodist Church over the consecration of that gay bishop has a similar structure. The effort failed because liberal UMC churches are closing all over America, yet conservative ones are springing up all over Africa and Asia. Roman Catholicism has a similar setup today - although I'd say that some of the Catholics I've met from Africa tended to veer a little too much toward religious indifferentism for comfort.)

[DeusVult]

I have been a "trad" for quite some time, and when I got married last year at an old Cathedral in the Philippines, it was the old rite.

For a few years I was a hardline SSPX, and then sede, even going to one of the Nine's chapels. I have been part of the website and forum Suscipe Domine since its inception.

I've relaxed a bit and adopted Padre Pio's pray, hope, and don't worry mantra. I go to an FSSP or diocesan TLM now, I think Francis may or may not be pope, Vatican 2 can somehow be reconciled with tradition, and a lot else.

Being a man, marrying, moving away from home, and living on my own (caring for my mother, not vice versa) really has me not giving a shit about a lot of trad hang ups that I did as a teen.

[stugatz]

(05-05-2017 03:23 PM)DeusVult Wrote:  

I have been a "trad" for quite some time, and when I got married last year at an old Cathedral in the Philippines, it was the old rite.

For a few years I was a hardline SSPX, and then sede, even going to one of the Nine's chapels. I have been part of the website and forum Suscipe Domine since its inception.

I've relaxed a bit and adopted Padre Pio's pray, hope, and don't worry mantra. I go to an FSSP or diocesan TLM now, I think Francis may or may not be pope, Vatican 2 can somehow be reconciled with tradition, and a lot else.

Being a man, marrying, moving away from home, and living on my own (caring for my mother, not vice versa) really has me not giving a shit about a lot of trad hang ups that I did as a teen.

Any differences you noticed between TLM and the SSPX masses? Went to the website of a local SSPX chapel, and they're *really* serious about the frequent confession and no mortal sins before communion thing, about equal with Orthodox, it looks like.

Dress code looks to be stricter, too. My cathedral has one and it's for the most part followed - but the occasional woman that's underdressed, or with a visible tattoo or facial piercing shows up. The SSPX chapel's website strongly implied that you would be turned away if you weren't dressed right.

More fasting days, too. No meat on any Friday, period, fasting looks to be during every single day of Lent.

[DeusVult]

It really depends on the priest, and culture of the chapel.

Back in Northern CA it was a little weird, and for that and several other reasons I haven't gone SSPX here in AZ.

With that aside, on a diocesan, SSPX, and sede level I've noticed cliques, church ladies, etc but also great priests and people.

Any solid priest regardless his affiliation will be serious about mortal sin and no communion, and rightly so for anyone with the Faith. I've gotten chewed out by "regularized" priests many times for avoiding confession for a long time. I stopped receiving if I had mortal years ago. Don't give a damn about what others think now.

No meat every Friday seems daunting at first, but it does get easy and gives me an excuse to eat fish at least.

I did the traditional Lenten fast twice and won't do it again.

[stugatz]

I need to update that post - the chapel I was talking about I just assumed was an SSPX chapel, despite it not showing up in SSPX listings. (There is an actual SSPX church but it's a couple of suburbs over and I'd rather not have to go that far right now.)

I felt weird about that and knew something was up. Since I wanted to make sure, I searched every inch of the page to find even one mention of the order. I found one after looking for about a half hour - and it mentioned that the bishop overseeing the place HAD been affiliated with them. Googled his name. He's a sedevancatist, and one of The Nine you mentioned. No wonder the page tried avoiding any mention of SSPX. Luckily, some sermons given there had been uploaded, and I was able to listen to them and get an idea of what I'd be in for.

Yeah, these guys are serious, they aren't in communion and are pretty open about it. I'll probably attend a mass or two out of curiosity and mention it to nobody at my church.

[DeusVult]

TBH bro yes this is a bulwark against the plagues of our times, best bet is to focus on the positivity and joy of being in the true Church and a follower of Christ. That's what's gonna sustain you and give you sustained happiness.

Get the solid liturgy, solid doctrine, and then everything else is gravy.

[Kid Twist]

When you're pondering how the Roman Catholic Church has gone astray, yet again, and trying to piece it back together in another Reformation like tactic ... stugatz, you know the answer.

The One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church mentioned in the Niceno-Constantinopolitan creed is still here on earth, and it ain't [Roman] Catholic like the modern word usage.

If we are honest, and this is what the forum is about, it is painstakingly obvious at this point.

Whether you think it matters --- that's an entirely different point. But we seek the Truth. And for truth seekers, it does matter.

[stugatz]

(05-10-2017 10:29 AM)Kid Twist Wrote:  

When you're pondering how the Roman Catholic Church has gone astray, yet again, and trying to piece it back together in another Reformation like tactic ... stugatz, you know the answer.

The One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church mentioned in the Niceno-Constantinopolitan creed is still here on earth, and it ain't [Roman] Catholic like the modern word usage.

If we are honest, and this is what the forum is about, it is painstakingly obvious at this point.

Whether you think it matters --- that's an entirely different point. But we seek the Truth. And for truth seekers, it does matter.

It may well happen someday, my friend - as much as I love the Tridentine Mass, I already borderline see some of the Eastern Rite churches as more pure due to the fact that their masses have remained unchanged since the MIDDLE AGES!! (The ones that haven't streamlined and Latinized their services, anyway - the Maronite services are a borderline Novus Ordo Catholic mass in parts of the United States, some even have kneelers and pray the Rosary, with the priest facing the congregation. I've been to a few Melkite Catholic services, and the difference is stunning.) I also don't know how legitimate I think it is to put all of your chips on one worldwide authority. There are so many ways that can backfire, and I've always gotten shaky when trying to explain papal infallibility to people.

Trust me. I have plenty of affection for the Orthodox churches, I'm just at a point in my life right now where it would be extremely difficult to cross over. If the slide continues over the next ten years, consider me interested. With Francis cavalierly suggesting that a Catholic can freely go to Anglican masses, and vice versa, it doesn't look unlikely.

[Robert High Hawk]

(05-10-2017 05:28 PM)stugatz Wrote:  

(05-10-2017 10:29 AM)Kid Twist Wrote:  

When you're pondering how the Roman Catholic Church has gone astray, yet again, and trying to piece it back together in another Reformation like tactic ... stugatz, you know the answer.

The One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church mentioned in the Niceno-Constantinopolitan creed is still here on earth, and it ain't [Roman] Catholic like the modern word usage.

If we are honest, and this is what the forum is about, it is painstakingly obvious at this point.

Whether you think it matters --- that's an entirely different point. But we seek the Truth. And for truth seekers, it does matter.

It may well happen someday, my friend - as much as I love the Tridentine Mass, I already borderline see some of the Eastern Rite churches as more pure due to the fact that their masses have remained unchanged since the MIDDLE AGES!! (The ones that haven't streamlined and Latinized their services, anyway - the Maronite services are a borderline Novus Ordo Catholic mass in parts of the United States, some even have kneelers and pray the Rosary, with the priest facing the congregation. I've been to a few Melkite Catholic services, and the difference is stunning.) I also don't know how legitimate I think it is to put all of your chips on one worldwide authority. There are so many ways that can backfire, and I've always gotten shaky when trying to explain papal infallibility to people.

Trust me. I have plenty of affection for the Orthodox churches, I'm just at a point in my life right now where it would be extremely difficult to cross over. If the slide continues over the next ten years, consider me interested. With Francis cavalierly suggesting that a Catholic can freely go to Anglican masses, and vice versa, it doesn't look unlikely.

I went to a Ukrainian Orthodox Catholic Church, is that what Melkiite is? I really enjoyed the experience.

[stugatz]

(05-19-2017 09:38 PM)Robert High Hawk Wrote:  

(05-10-2017 05:28 PM)stugatz Wrote:  

(05-10-2017 10:29 AM)Kid Twist Wrote:  

When you're pondering how the Roman Catholic Church has gone astray, yet again, and trying to piece it back together in another Reformation like tactic ... stugatz, you know the answer.

The One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church mentioned in the Niceno-Constantinopolitan creed is still here on earth, and it ain't [Roman] Catholic like the modern word usage.

If we are honest, and this is what the forum is about, it is painstakingly obvious at this point.

Whether you think it matters --- that's an entirely different point. But we seek the Truth. And for truth seekers, it does matter.

It may well happen someday, my friend - as much as I love the Tridentine Mass, I already borderline see some of the Eastern Rite churches as more pure due to the fact that their masses have remained unchanged since the MIDDLE AGES!! (The ones that haven't streamlined and Latinized their services, anyway - the Maronite services are a borderline Novus Ordo Catholic mass in parts of the United States, some even have kneelers and pray the Rosary, with the priest facing the congregation. I've been to a few Melkite Catholic services, and the difference is stunning.) I also don't know how legitimate I think it is to put all of your chips on one worldwide authority. There are so many ways that can backfire, and I've always gotten shaky when trying to explain papal infallibility to people.

Trust me. I have plenty of affection for the Orthodox churches, I'm just at a point in my life right now where it would be extremely difficult to cross over. If the slide continues over the next ten years, consider me interested. With Francis cavalierly suggesting that a Catholic can freely go to Anglican masses, and vice versa, it doesn't look unlikely.

I went to a Ukrainian Orthodox Catholic Church, is that what Melkiite is? I really enjoyed the experience.

Very very similar. It's Byzantine rite but the Melkites are based out of Syria/Lebanon instead of the Ukraine.

[DeusVult]

The Orthos like to act like their shit don't stank, but they are just as riddled with ecumenism and even universalism. The Moscow Patriarchate served as a puppet of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics for decades.

The modern plague of indifferentism and modernism affects them too.

You can accuse someone clinging to the traditional Mass of "acting in a Reformation matter," but I hear the same thing from Easterners when I bring up the universalism and ecumenism: oh, we have a synod, a bishop here and there, standing up to it.

[Bland]

I'm not Catholic (was raised Protestant), but I'd like to attend a traditional Catholic Mass in Latin since I appreciate traditionalism.

Would I be welcome (I wouldn't take communion)?

If so are there any resources online to find this type of mass?

[Kid Twist]

(05-20-2017 12:59 PM)DeusVult Wrote:  

The Orthos like to act like their shit don't stank, but they are just as riddled with ecumenism and even universalism. The Moscow Patriarchate served as a puppet of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics for decades.

The modern plague of indifferentism and modernism affects them too.

You can accuse someone clinging to the traditional Mass of "acting in a Reformation matter," but I hear the same thing from Easterners when I bring up the universalism and ecumenism: oh, we have a synod, a bishop here and there, standing up to it.

Riddled with ecumenism? Universalism? I'm not sure where you're getting that, at the very least the "riddled" part.

modernism and postmodernism affects everyone in the world, but it has not infiltrated the teachings of the church

the RC and protestants can't say that

[Neo]

Serious question, anyone wife hunting in these communities?

I found a local traditional community and am going to visit and just get involved for the long term. Hopefully something meaningful comes out of it.

As a side note I need to go to confession and make some major changes. I'm a big believer in like attracts like and if I want the type of woman I'm looking for I really need to get off tinder and wasting time with women who I know don't fit that mold. I decided to stop all casual sex and am just cutting out all girls who don't fit my moral requrements.

Funny thing is this is how I always was. I just took a path for years that I knew deep down would not make me happy.

[stugatz]

(05-22-2017 01:54 PM)Bland Wrote:  

I'm not Catholic (was raised Protestant), but I'd like to attend a traditional Catholic Mass in Latin since I appreciate traditionalism.

Would I be welcome (I wouldn't take communion)?

If so are there any resources online to find this type of mass?

http://www.latinmasstimes.com is pretty decent. As far as how welcome you are, try if you can to attend a big church and just go quietly. If it's smaller, you might be expected to introduce yourself and I am not sure how awkward that could get, so see if you can talk to a priest first. (I'd avoid attending a SSPX or sedevacantist church, I assume you just can't casually go to one - go to one approved by Rome.)

[stugatz]

(05-22-2017 05:50 PM)Neo Wrote:  

Serious question, anyone wife hunting in these communities?

I found a local traditional community and am going to visit and just get involved for the long term. Hopefully something meaningful comes out of it.

As a side note I need to go to confession and make some major changes. I'm a big believer in like attracts like and if I want the type of woman I'm looking for I really need to get off tinder and wasting time with women who I know don't fit that mold. I decided to stop all casual sex and am just cutting out all girls who don't fit my moral requrements.

Funny thing is this is how I always was. I just took a path for years that I knew deep down would not make me happy.

Sort of - I joined a Catholic young adult organization that spans multiple traditional churches, some in Latin, some not (all Western Rite). I am not sure if I'm going to remain in this city long so wife hunting is the wrong term. I just want some light dating with like-minded people, and want see what the quality of the women and the men my age is among serious Catholics. So far, I have been extremely well-received, and the people in the group come across as far more normal than your average crowd of obsessive Jesus Freaks movies make fun of.

The women are all very well-dressed and respectable, actually to the point where a few of them look far more attractive than they are at second and third glance (that's the magic of a good wardrobe I guess). A lot of genuinely attractive girls.

The men tend to be a little more socially awkward - actually, to a point where I have little competition at a lot of social gatherings. (Not sure what to make of this - I'm often ill at ease socially, and I'm almost the life of the party next to a lot of these guys.) I am sure more than a few of them would make good friends, but the idea of game is something I do not plan on bringing up.

[DeusVult]

>officially allows divorce up to three times
>officially a member of the World Council of Churches
>officially allows Contraception

"has not infiltrated the teachings of the church"

You can call me out for the abuses emanating these past few decades, but we don't officially sanction rubbers, pills, divorce, or belong to the WCC

[Bland]

(05-23-2017 12:04 AM)stugatz Wrote:  

http://www.latinmasstimes.com is pretty decent. As far as how welcome you are, try if you can to attend a big church and just go quietly. If it's smaller, you might be expected to introduce yourself and I am not sure how awkward that could get, so see if you can talk to a priest first. (I'd avoid attending a SSPX or sedevacantist church, I assume you just can't casually go to one - go to one approved by Rome.)

Great thanks. I will try to attend in the next couple weeks and will report back for any readers who might be similar to me and interested in attending Latin mass.

[Neo]

(05-23-2017 12:08 AM)stugatz Wrote:  

(05-22-2017 05:50 PM)Neo Wrote:  

Serious question, anyone wife hunting in these communities?

I found a local traditional community and am going to visit and just get involved for the long term. Hopefully something meaningful comes out of it.

As a side note I need to go to confession and make some major changes. I'm a big believer in like attracts like and if I want the type of woman I'm looking for I really need to get off tinder and wasting time with women who I know don't fit that mold. I decided to stop all casual sex and am just cutting out all girls who don't fit my moral requirements.

Funny thing is this is how I always was. I just took a path for years that I knew deep down would not make me happy.

Sort of - I joined a Catholic young adult organization that spans multiple traditional churches, some in Latin, some not (all Western Rite). I am not sure if I'm going to remain in this city long so wife hunting is the wrong term. I just want some light dating with like-minded people, and want see what the quality of the women and the men my age is among serious Catholics. So far, I have been extremely well-received, and the people in the group come across as far more normal than your average crowd of obsessive Jesus Freaks movies make fun of.

The women are all very well-dressed and respectable, actually to the point where a few of them look far more attractive than they are at second and third glance (that's the magic of a good wardrobe I guess). A lot of genuinely attractive girls.

The men tend to be a little more socially awkward - actually, to a point where I have little competition at a lot of social gatherings. (Not sure what to make of this - I'm often ill at ease socially, and I'm almost the life of the party next to a lot of these guys.) I am sure more than a few of them would make good friends, but the idea of game is something I do not plan on bringing up.

Stu, what's your age if you don't mind me asking? Just in general 20s, 30s? What I'm tending to find (I'm over 30) is that respectable women are few and far between in this age range and the religious ones usually get married young like in their early 20s or to a HS sweetheart.

I'll visit the local community and report back.

I tried looking at Catholic dating websites and many of the women don't seem genuine or are unattractive.

[911]

(05-22-2017 05:50 PM)Neo Wrote:  

Serious question, anyone wife hunting in these communities?

I found a local traditional community and am going to visit and just get involved for the long term. Hopefully something meaningful comes out of it.

As a side note I need to go to confession and make some major changes. I'm a big believer in like attracts like and if I want the type of woman I'm looking for I really need to get off tinder and wasting time with women who I know don't fit that mold. I decided to stop all casual sex and am just cutting out all girls who don't fit my moral requrements.

Funny thing is this is how I always was. I just took a path for years that I knew deep down would not make me happy.

I recommend the Taizé youth retreat in Burgundy (France), thousands of young people from all over Europe, beautiful countryside, great sights nearby (wine country), great vibes and friendly people. Catholic founded IIRC but broadly interfaith. Good place to meet women with LT potential and to renew your faith.

http://www.taize.fr/en

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lvizard/se...253991193/

[stugatz]

(05-23-2017 04:46 PM)Neo Wrote:  

Stu, what's your age if you don't mind me asking? Just in general 20s, 30s? What I'm tending to find (I'm over 30) is that respectable women are few and far between in this age range and the religious ones usually get married young like in their early 20s or to a HS sweetheart.

I'll visit the local community and report back.

I tried looking at Catholic dating websites and many of the women don't seem genuine or are unattractive.

Late 20s - and after a long time period of being addicted to dating, the novelty of casual sex completely wore off and I almost stopped meeting women entirely.

I didn't have enough game to land anything above a 7 very often, and anything that was six and below...well, just stopped appealing to me. After about half a decade of neverending meaningless dating, I ended up figuring - what's the use of talking around politics over a couple of beers with a decent-looking woman I'm going to, at best, have as an unserious girlfriend? (Women sensed I was hiding something, too...I got far more first dates than second dates.)

Finding my way back to the church was a complicated process, wanting to date a quality woman was only one out of a dozen reasons. So far, I'd say the range in this group is around 18-25 for both men and women. Any woman who looks to be pushing 30 - I immediately wonder if she's a carousel rider who decided to turn over a new leaf. (Excessive amounts of religious posts on Facebook are usually a sign, I've found. Even when you're a trad there's a limit.)

I've not tried out Catholic dating websites - so many members of the church are huge leftists, I assume that's going to be a big percentage. Most of the reason I tried to find a traditional church was because I figured that a liberal trying to sneak in wouldn't be able to tolerate it for long. Frequent confession encouraged, almost-constant kneeling, head coverings required, the entire service in a foreign language, and much of the congregation sporting SSPX missals? They'd run away screaming. So I can say for sure that the vast majority of women here are genuine.

Attractiveness is where I can't promise you anything - all I can say is that the women who are both extremely attractive and genuine were homeschooled, almost no exceptions. 6's and 7's are common. (I mentioned earlier that most are well dressed and quite a few look like eights until you look closer.) Few are under a 5, though, and stuff like colored hair/piercings/tattoos are virtually nonexistent. The few outright overweight and fat women I've met are different from what I'm used too, too - they have a positive attitude.

I'd love to say that gatherings are crawling with 8's and 9's...but sadly, a woman that attractive has a hard time fighting the propaganda that even gets into a homeschooled house.

[Zona]

Figured I'd chime in here since I went to my first TLM this morning.

Like some of you, I've grown increasingly dismayed with the direction the church has been heading, and the general behavior I see at regular mass is pretty annoying at times. It's to the point where I'm actually looking into the Orthodox Church because it seems to get a lot of things right and, at the very least, it's managed to really hold on to tradition.

However, you guys piqued my curiosity with this TLM talk so I decided to attend Low Mass. Talk about a world of difference. Everything stugatz mentioned was spot on, including the dress code (I actually felt a bit underdressed, so I'll have to step it up next time), except for the fact that there weren't many young people at mine. Still, there were a few others who looked to be in their 20s-30s.

It was all very interesting even though I didn't totally understand what was going on at times. I also admired the piety everyone showed, so that was a welcomed change of pace. It helped me get into the mass a lot more. Overall it was a good experience, and I'll probably go again next week. At some point I may also try to find a Byzantine Mass just to dip my toes into the Eastern Rite to see how I like it.