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To every dude who complains about being an American citizen (rant)
#26

To every dude who complains about being an American citizen (rant)

Quote: (08-28-2011 04:20 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

Quote: (08-28-2011 11:11 AM)ao85 Wrote:  

Everyone here waxes melodically about Europe, but because those societies are so homogenous and have 0 defense spending (because they free ride on the US), they can afford their 35 hours workweeks and 6 week vacations.

I really wonder how some of you people can keep repeating the same bullshit again and again without even bothering to check whether what you're saying is actually true. Don't you understand that you lose all your credibility this way?

Zero defense spending? France has the third largest military budget in the world. Germany has the 7th.

Quote:Quote:

Would you rather be born in Russia, where you have to kill and bribe your way to get any level of success?

I was born in Russia. Hasn't killed anyone so far. Didn't bribe my way to success either. You're being incredibly ignorant.

Quote:Quote:

Would you rather be a 70 hour a week factory monkey in China?

It's a feeling shared by many Americans who know that simply working hard isn't enough anymore. To get ahead, a 70-hour work week is the new standard.

The rest of your examples is just ridiculous. Do you really think being a sex slave, a victim or genocide or kidnapping is better in America than in any different country?

-------
Russia Ranked Among Most Corrupt Countries
10/26/2010 8:52 AM ET
Transparency International's annual report, which finds war-torn countries as being the most corrupt in the world, has ranked Russia to a lower 154th position on the organization's Corruption Perceptions Index list of 178 nations.

The report on perceived corruption, published on Tuesday, puts Russia at par with Tajikistan, Papua New Guinea and several African countries.

Yelena Panfilova, head of the Russian wing of Transparency International, said it is "a national shame" for a country claiming to be a world leader and a major energy power.

She noted that corruption is rampant in Russia's public institutions, including in hospitals, schools, utilities, and the traffic police.

Transparency International placed Somalia, Myanmar, Afghanistan and Iraq on the bottom of the list.

-------------------------
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#27

To every dude who complains about being an American citizen (rant)

Quote: (08-28-2011 11:11 AM)ao85 Wrote:  

Quote: (08-28-2011 10:42 AM)Gmac Wrote:  

It's a double-edged sword.

My problem is not the "freedoms" (I use that term loosely) that we enjoy, but society itself. Stereotypes are great, because they're so often true. I am probably one of the least politically correct people you will ever meet, so if you didn't know that before now, well anyway...

American Men are generally workaholics and alcoholics with tempers the size of Texas... obsessed with sports, women, and generally anything else that leads to them making more money. They tend to ignore the simpler things and get so tied up in their own mundane lives that before they know it they're 40, fat, balding, and chained for life to a succubus wife... complete with two selfish poop machines, a family dog, and a houses and cars they can't afford. Although completely maxed out on debt... they still find a way to buy that shiny new 50" plasma TV.

American Women are some of the biggest manipulating schemers and liars that I have ever met. They never say what they mean. There's nothing worse than a "true" American girl... even Osama Bin Laden wouldn't 70 of our virgins in hell. Not only do our women spend more time and money idolizing and imitating celebrities than any other country on earth, they do it with pride. Now go get your hair and nails "did." Then make me a sandwich.

Two words, "Rumor Mill." You can't trust a woman with a secret because the second you turn your back she'll be texting 9 of her "besties." Why are our women so obsessed with other people? You don't see their counterparts in most other countries so tied up in other peoples lives. Maybe it's because they know they'll never become that person themselves. Here in America, we have some of the biggest materialistic, narcissistic, ego-maniacal princesses on earth who would rather sit around and talk about Oprah or Britney Spears all day than oh I don't know, actually be useful. And that's when they're not banging half the town behind your back.

Either way, it's a sad, sad time to be living in America. Sure, the plethora of pussy is great... and it's nice to not have to walk 50 miles to fetch water (I get it) but what with obesity, feminism, and governmental control on the rise, I'm getting the fuck out of here as soon as I have the means to do it right. I won't be a willing prisoner in my own country. [Image: rant.gif]

But you realize, though, that being born an American citizen gives you the freedom to do that that you don't have in many other countries. Everyone here waxes melodically about Europe, but because those societies are so homogenous and have 0 defense spending (because they free ride on the US), they can afford their 35 hours workweeks and 6 week vacations. But, even those chickens are coming home to roost as the European economies collapse.

And in Europe, the immigrants there do far worse than the US, as right wing political movements are stoking anti-foreigner sentiment.

Would you rather be born in Russia, where you have to kill and bribe your way to get any level of success?

Would you rather be a 70 hour a week factory monkey in China?

A starving child in India?

A woman in any Muslim country?

A genocide victim in Africa?

A miserable salaryman in Japan who is now eating radiation contaminated food?

A peasant in Bolivia living on subsistence wages?

A victim of kidnapping and extortion in Mexico?

A sex slave in Southeast Asia?

A 90 pound adult male in North Korea?

Seriously...there's a reason why hundreds of millions still want to live in America....

I'm surprised that with so many travelers on this board they don't realize how few opportunities (AVERAGE) people have in the countries they travel to.

What a load of crap ! 0 defense expenses because we are free riding on the US ??
35 hour work weeks ??
because those societies are so homogenous ?? My country (Holland) has 15% immigrants, mostly muslim.

Got some info to back up your statements ??

Obama/America is forcing and also begging half of Europe to help out in Afghanistan and Irak.

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#28

To every dude who complains about being an American citizen (rant)

Quote: (08-28-2011 06:37 PM)Neil Skywalker Wrote:  

Quote: (08-28-2011 11:11 AM)ao85 Wrote:  

Quote: (08-28-2011 10:42 AM)Gmac Wrote:  

It's a double-edged sword.

My problem is not the "freedoms" (I use that term loosely) that we enjoy, but society itself. Stereotypes are great, because they're so often true. I am probably one of the least politically correct people you will ever meet, so if you didn't know that before now, well anyway...

American Men are generally workaholics and alcoholics with tempers the size of Texas... obsessed with sports, women, and generally anything else that leads to them making more money. They tend to ignore the simpler things and get so tied up in their own mundane lives that before they know it they're 40, fat, balding, and chained for life to a succubus wife... complete with two selfish poop machines, a family dog, and a houses and cars they can't afford. Although completely maxed out on debt... they still find a way to buy that shiny new 50" plasma TV.

American Women are some of the biggest manipulating schemers and liars that I have ever met. They never say what they mean. There's nothing worse than a "true" American girl... even Osama Bin Laden wouldn't 70 of our virgins in hell. Not only do our women spend more time and money idolizing and imitating celebrities than any other country on earth, they do it with pride. Now go get your hair and nails "did." Then make me a sandwich.

Two words, "Rumor Mill." You can't trust a woman with a secret because the second you turn your back she'll be texting 9 of her "besties." Why are our women so obsessed with other people? You don't see their counterparts in most other countries so tied up in other peoples lives. Maybe it's because they know they'll never become that person themselves. Here in America, we have some of the biggest materialistic, narcissistic, ego-maniacal princesses on earth who would rather sit around and talk about Oprah or Britney Spears all day than oh I don't know, actually be useful. And that's when they're not banging half the town behind your back.

Either way, it's a sad, sad time to be living in America. Sure, the plethora of pussy is great... and it's nice to not have to walk 50 miles to fetch water (I get it) but what with obesity, feminism, and governmental control on the rise, I'm getting the fuck out of here as soon as I have the means to do it right. I won't be a willing prisoner in my own country. [Image: rant.gif]

But you realize, though, that being born an American citizen gives you the freedom to do that that you don't have in many other countries. Everyone here waxes melodically about Europe, but because those societies are so homogenous and have 0 defense spending (because they free ride on the US), they can afford their 35 hours workweeks and 6 week vacations. But, even those chickens are coming home to roost as the European economies collapse.

And in Europe, the immigrants there do far worse than the US, as right wing political movements are stoking anti-foreigner sentiment.

Would you rather be born in Russia, where you have to kill and bribe your way to get any level of success?

Would you rather be a 70 hour a week factory monkey in China?

A starving child in India?

A woman in any Muslim country?

A genocide victim in Africa?

A miserable salaryman in Japan who is now eating radiation contaminated food?

A peasant in Bolivia living on subsistence wages?

A victim of kidnapping and extortion in Mexico?

A sex slave in Southeast Asia?

A 90 pound adult male in North Korea?

Seriously...there's a reason why hundreds of millions still want to live in America....

I'm surprised that with so many travelers on this board they don't realize how few opportunities (AVERAGE) people have in the countries they travel to.

What a load of crap ! 0 defense expenses because we are free riding on the US ??
35 hour work weeks ??
because those societies are so homogenous ?? My country (Holland) has 15% immigrants, mostly muslim.

Got some info to back up your statements ??

Obama/America is forcing and also begging half of Europe to help out in Afghanistan and Irak.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_th...etherlands

Radicalization
After the murder of Theo van Gogh in November 2004, Minister of Integration and Immigration Rita Verdonk commissioned an inquiry into the radicalization of young Muslims. The conclusion was that many of them experience alienation, feeling disconnected with both their first-generation immigrant parents and from Dutch society. Previous reports had already found that young Muslims don't share the deep ethno-national attachment their parents feel with their country of origin, and instead are coming to identify primarily with their religion. While they participate less in religious activities than their parents, they more strongly link their identity with Islam and with the global Muslim community; radical and orthodox Islamic groups offer some of these young Muslims clear answers and a firm sense of belonging. While prior research found that the degree of religiosity in general decreases among Muslims with higher education and stable employment, the new report noted that highly educated young Muslims can also experience "relative deprivation" all the more strongly - the sense that despite their efforts they receive fewer opportunities than native Dutch of the same generation - and turn to radicalism in anger and frustration.


Hows that whole integration thing working out for you guys in Europe?
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#29

To every dude who complains about being an American citizen (rant)

I'm glad this topic was brought up because I'm pretty strongly opinionated about it.

I'm a young American citizen who is a part of the liberty-loving culture that is fortunately growing more and more these days. I've always been a bit of a patriot but my opinion of my country has continually eroded as I've gotten older. The OP of this thread has some good points about the attitudes that people like myself hold.

Let me start my saying that, yes, things could be worse. We all could have been born in gutters in countries with oppressive regimes and no opportunities for movement. No one can deny this. I do however hope that the OP can keep in mind that America is a pretty isolated place and isolation tends to alter one's perception of many things. For better or worse, we have been sheltered from the terrible situations that many have to endure in the world. War, famine, poverty, disease, mass violence; all of these things are for the most part foreign to us and many of us forget that they are a part of the daily lives of many people. This of course is not a conscious choice. Distance tends to remove empathy. Those of us who "can't stand" America may just be ignorant, sheltered, or just a little...forgetful. I hope you can understand this.

A large part of the discontent with this country comes from the fact that America is simply not living up to its potential. America has become a country of prodigal sons (and daughters - who you will be more likely to hear about here). The last two generations of people have been living in unprecedented levels of comfort and social isolation, which combined with terrible government policy, has lead to a severe degradation of our society. Those non-native people might not be familiar with the concept of the "Me Generation", a whole generation of people who believe the world is there to serve their interests. America was and continues to be a place with amazing potential for self-improvement. Unfortunately, many of us have lost interest in or have never been introduced to the concepts of self-determination, hard work, and the responsibilities of living in a free society. Through isolation, comfort, and laziness Americans have simply lost their way. The great country that they have been born into is falling apart at the seams and the people living in it are uneducated and unmotivated to hold it together and make it the great place it could truly become.

This is what frustrates many Americans today: having to watch a Land of Opportunity slowly devolve into a land of fat television zombies. In order to understand this better, I offer an excercise in empathy:

Imagine being a parent watching your brilliant son waste himself on video games all day as your beautiful daughter turns into a flip-flop wearing whale obsessed with gossip and celebrity magazines.

Imagine being a teacher knowing that your students have more opportunity than most in the world and having to watch them spend more time on Facebook than on real books.

Imagine being a journalist in a "free-press" society who wants to break that amazing story that will ruin a corrupt politician and then see your story get thrown out by your editor because the "people upstairs" don't like stories that might harm the advertisors.

Imagine being one of our citizens on Fourth of July, being inundated with the freedom message, knowing full-well that your government is robbing you every single day to feed freeloaders, designers of mass-murdering machines, and even oppressive foreign governments.

Imagine going home every day to a mansion with comforts that many in this world would kill for...to a family that won't even talk to you and neighbors whose names you don't even know.

Imagine being a young kid living in the "affluent suburbs" being raised in a country where the concept of "lifelong friends" is almost unheard of and "social spaces" are a thing of the past.

Imagine being an old retiree who is living on Social Security in a shitty retirement home because your children see you as a burden and sometimes forget to see you on holidays.

Imagine living in a society where everyone speaks the same language but no one answers the phone or comes over to chat.

Imagine living in a "free country" where you have to watch your president regularly piss on the laws that protect you from him, knowing well that most of your countrymen either don't know or don't care about it.

Imagine leaving your home every day in a "modern industrialized society" only to be surrounded by people who don't know how to dress with decency, write clearly, form an educated opinion, or even feed themselves properly.

Take the time to digest all of these scenarios. This is life in America.

We have many comforts and opportunities in American society today, but we have our share of pretty serious problems. The grass is always greener, as they say. But those of you who don't understand the frustrations of some of our people might want to consider the deeper social problems that exist here and the toll they are taking on us mentally and emotionally.

Consider the intellectual, social, cultural, and emotional starvation that Americans are going through, if you can. The effects are often quite hard to see.

Sometimes I am ashamed to be an American citizen, I will admit that. I often dream about leaving, if only for a short time. But I am glad I was born here. I am thankful that my ancestors risked their lives to comes to this place and give their families a better life. I am also confident that we can find our way again after this long economic crisis is over. Hopefully the tough times ahead will bring us back to our senses...in a generation or two.

Until then, you're going to hear a lot of discontent.
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#30

To every dude who complains about being an American citizen (rant)

Quote: (08-28-2011 06:10 PM)ao85 Wrote:  

Russia Ranked Among Most Corrupt Countries
10/26/2010 8:52 AM ET

Dude, you are funny. I guess you never been to Russia, and I was born and grew up there, and now you feel like you can teach ME how the life in Russia is just because you read some news article? Gimme a break.

Yes, there is corruption. But your statement that in Russia you have to kill and bribe your way to get any level of success is plain ignorant. And your statements like that make ALL of us living here look ignorant, and post pictures like the one below.

[Image: America.jpg]
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#31

To every dude who complains about being an American citizen (rant)

I think Athlone has added to it quite well. Allow me to expansiate on that even further.

I have fam in the US that have grown up in Europe (UK in particular) and decided to immigrate to the U.S. None of them have regretted the move.
Some of them complain about some of the stupidness they experience in America but when they weigh up the opportunities available in America against those in Europe, America wins..blatantly.

Most importantly,(and this is substantiated by my fam and friends from Europe not just UK but France, Portugal etc) I find that many, if not all, European countries do not offer the same opportunities to MINORITIES as they do to others.
Due to the fact that America is motivated by profit, by and large, they don't seem to care if you are as yellow as a cornfield or as dark as an inkjet when it comes to getting work and getting paid.

I have never seen such a diverse pool of millionaires in America. People for instance like Beetlejuice, Wee-man, the rappers (who many can not string a sentence together in English to save their lives) are making good coin.
Plug these guys into European countries and with their current skill set, they would be cleaning toilets..End of.

But in America, they have a shot at that fat gwap.

Athlone mentions that some have realised that money isn't everything. This is very true but my question is: At what point does money cease to become something.
We all have different financial thresholds or needs. Is it better to have too much money in case needs change, family situation etc, medical situation or is it better to have less.
Is mo money better than no money?
I, have personally been in different financial situations throughout my life and I can tell you this - money provides options.

Money means I can treat and host my friends if they visit me from another country. Money means I don't have to go to work if I don't feel like it.
Money means I can cough up something in an emergency.

Try telling that to the doctor when your family needs medicine or your crying baby is sick and needs a procedure done. You need food. You need to look after your grandma/aunty/wife/daughter/son.

I actually said this very thing to a deported Dominican in DR (he grew up in NYC before being deported for some crime) and he said to me in a perfect American accent:

"You try living in a third world country and then come talk to me about 'money isn't everything'"

He has a very very strong point there.

People yell and scream about America's ails and so forth but America is an open book society. Presidents get head in all countries, it's just America just shows their dirty laundry.
A lot of the bullshyt that happens in America exists in other countries but other countries are just better at bottling that shyt up.
Cupcake mentioned putting old ones in a nursing home, they do that shyt in UK and Canada too.

Many people sneer at America and they being slaves to salary until they come over and catch a fat paycheque with low income tax and watch how quickly they also buy into the 70 hour work week.
Americans in the right mind state (see some of the voyagers from the Roosh forum) have the largest funds to spend when they travel due to the way the American system is set up.

Many of my European friends enjoy life in their European countries but their money is tied up into the structures of their society via tax.
Someone mentioned that uni costs 50k per annum in America and so forth. It's free in UK (when I lived there) and other European countries but the taxes that you pay when you DO work, housing taxes (for renters!!), tv license, MOT, VAT these all funnel the money for these 'free' services.

I've observed America for a while (having travelled there umpteen times and absorbed so much of the media). I still like the opportunities afforded to EVERYONE in America.
You can work in Krispy Kreme donuts and still be able to afford a car, with insurance, put petrol in your car and pay rent.
Can't afford to do that in other countries. It's the bus for you, mate.

Clothes are dirt cheap in America so there is no excuse to be dressed bummy. They have clothes for all walks of people. In Europe, if you are a big man (and I don't mean fat), one of my friends there who is 6'5 has to buy all his decent shyt and shoes from America.
Food is so cheap, I don't give a fcuk how wild your appetite is, you can eat like a hippo and your bank won't even get touched with the insane American quantities.
Correct me if I'm wrong but get half a brain and you will be making some nice cake in America, they have so much fcuking jobs there that pay very well.


Some people complain about American women. Fcuk them. Toronto women suck too.
Just import them. Or travel three times a year and bang the shyt out of them in their home country. Canada is very close to America and we drive on the same side and talk the same way so you don't have to worry about flying to Europe plus having to learn some other language.
Canada is flush with all sorts of lizards. Asian lizards? Hit up Vancouver. White lizards? Hit up any part of Canada? Black lizards? Hit up Nova Scotia.
They also love Americans (ask G manifesto) so you don't even need so much bullshyt game. You are already exotic to Canadians. Just try not to diss Canada i.e say you love Canada and Canadians are so polite blah blah and she'll be tossing your salad by sundown (or sunup -whichever is closer).

From an adult perspective, I think the best way in possibly addressing America's ailments is to use all this money you guys make in America, and take a trip at least two times a year but ideally three times to another country.
This helps with sanity and keeps you in perspective. You will appreciate the liberties you are allowed in America.

Again, I speak from the basis of fam members who have lived in the states for umpteem years, having immigrated and they travel outside of America religiously.
I repeat: NONE OF THEM, have regretted their move or have even insinuated on moving back to Europe.
None of my friends back in Europe (and we chat at least twice a month for hours on end minimum) have said anything that has made me for one second, regret my movements out here and consider packing up and going back.

REPTILE VARIETIES
Lizard wise, I have access to all my favourite types in North America. Snow bunnies, blacks, Latin, I can pound them all out in EQUAL quantities to my delight here.
This is not possible in Europe (and I encourage anyone to show me where in Europe it is).

That's my two pence.

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#32

To every dude who complains about being an American citizen (rant)

Moma, don't you live in Toronto?
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#33

To every dude who complains about being an American citizen (rant)

Quote: (08-29-2011 10:18 AM)Mace Wrote:  

Moma, don't you live in Toronto?

I do. Why?

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#34

To every dude who complains about being an American citizen (rant)

I think the OP a good point but went about it in the worst kind of way which made any sane discussion turn into a shit slinging competition.
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#35

To every dude who complains about being an American citizen (rant)

I can't stand people like the OP, who act like America is obviously and self-evidently totally awesome. No supporting data, just flag-waving.

Pro or anti-Americanism means nothing without a good, solid argument. I lean towards the Anti-American end of the spectrum for any number of reasons (tedious and consumerist lifestyle, militarism, bitchy American women, lack of a strong social safety net, weak family and community ties), but there's always gonna be other things I love about the country too (great authors and music, lots of space for differing opinions, natural beauty, practicality (especially in business matters), good ethnic food).

I appreciated Moma's post, definitely a lot in there that I would otherwise take for granted. Colombians have told me similar stories, of working for peanuts as say a waiter in the US but still being able to have an apartment, car, and reasonable lifestyle. That ain't happening in Colombia for anytime soon for those working as waiters.

Still, I ain't there, and I don't miss it all that much outside of friends and family.
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#36

To every dude who complains about being an American citizen (rant)

America finds itself like the prom queen who just turned 40. We were on top of the world and the best at everything 60 years ago. Everyone loved us. Now we're on the decline. So we're pissed off and bitter, dumbfounded as to how this could have happened to us.

There are still tons of advantages to being an American right now, but I think that's just because we're coasting on the spoils of the glory days. Meanwhile, all the afflictions of affluence like obesity, heart disease, entitlement (in every way), materialism, etc pile up higher than ever.
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#37

To every dude who complains about being an American citizen (rant)

I just had a convo w/ an Iranian in Kuwait. Just 200 meters from my apartment. This cat is terrified of the U.S. Ain't that a shame. The American people have NO issue w/ that country. I've been working w/ Iraqis for years. Get a grip. You guys wanna bitch about the U.S. ? How dare you. I gotta go convience this cat we're not the "devil". Fuck. Bitch when you actually get a passport. And then look in a man's eyes that fears you based on "propaganda?" These people live day to day.
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#38

To every dude who complains about being an American citizen (rant)

Quote: (08-29-2011 06:33 PM)Rah Wrote:  

America finds itself like the prom queen who just turned 40. We were on top of the world and the best at everything 60 years ago. Everyone loved us. Now we're on the decline. So we're pissed off and bitter, dumbfounded as to how this could have happened to us.

There are still tons of advantages to being an American right now, but I think that's just because we're coasting on the spoils of the glory days. Meanwhile, all the afflictions of affluence like obesity, heart disease, entitlement (in every way), materialism, etc pile up higher than ever.

People are celebrating this "decline," like it's a good thing. Do you really think that human rights and equality are going to magically spread in the world when/if China becomes the pre-eminent superpower?
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#39

To every dude who complains about being an American citizen (rant)

Quote: (08-28-2011 06:06 PM)ao85 Wrote:  

In Geoffrey Miller’s Spent: Sex, Evolution, and Consumer Behavior Miller discusses how there might be a move away from a consumerist culture. To do this, there is a need to develop and maintain social norms that could act as an alternative to the typical displays of wealth. For example, in a religious community, signalling could be through time and resources given to the church.

However, Miller stated that there is a major legal obstacle to establishing these norms. The obstacle is that the laws about property ownership and rental do not allow discrimination. Despite the good intentions, Miller considers that “they have toxic side effects on the ability of voluntarily organized communities to create the physical, social, and moral environments that their members want.”

There is no shortage of literature on the effects of diversity on trust and cooperation within communities. Miller notes some of Robert Putnam’s work:

For example, the political scientist Robert Putnam has found that American communities with higher levels of ethnic diversity tend to have lower levels of “social capital” – trust, altruism, cohesion, and sense of community. He and his colleagues analyzed data from thirty thousand people across forty-one U.S. communities, and found that people who live in communities with higher ethnic diversity (meaning, in the United States, more equal mixtures of black, Hispanic, white, and Asian citizens) tend to have lower:

trust across ethnic groups
trust within their own ethnic group
community solidarity and cohesion
community cooperation
sense of political empowerment
confidence in local government and leaders
voter registration rates
charity and volunteering
investment in common goods
interest in maintaining community facilities
rates of carpooling
numbers of friends
perceived quality of life
general happiness
These effects remained substantial even after controlling for each individual’s age, sex, education, ethnicity, income, and language, and for each community’s poverty rate, income inequality, crime rate, population density, mobility, and average education.

As communities cannot group on norms, Miller states that communities group based on income. Wealth becomes the measure of status and competition between individuals in the community is then dependent on displays of wealth. He states that “if the local majority cannot impose some distinctive social norms on our forms of trait signaling, conspicuous consumption will remain the only game in town.” You are limited to choosing your neighbours through the use of economic stratification.

------------------------------------------

A plausible explanation for increasing consumerism in the US.

What is your point? If you can illustrate it clearly without simply copy-pasting an article, I'd appreciate it.

Quote:Quote:

Russia Ranked Among Most Corrupt Countries
10/26/2010 8:52 AM ET
Transparency International's annual report, which finds war-torn countries as being the most corrupt in the world, has ranked Russia to a lower 154th position on the organization's Corruption Perceptions Index list of 178 nations.

The report on perceived corruption, published on Tuesday, puts Russia at par with Tajikistan, Papua New Guinea and several African countries.

Yelena Panfilova, head of the Russian wing of Transparency International, said it is "a national shame" for a country claiming to be a world leader and a major energy power.

She noted that corruption is rampant in Russia's public institutions, including in hospitals, schools, utilities, and the traffic police.

Transparency International placed Somalia, Myanmar, Afghanistan and Iraq on the bottom of the list.

OldNemesis already took care of this one, but I'll add further that you've not really made a point here. You stated that a Russian citizen had to steal and bribe to get anywhere. This article does not sufficiently substantiate the absolute statement you made.

Quote:Quote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_th...etherlands

Radicalization
After the murder of Theo van Gogh in November 2004, Minister of Integration and Immigration Rita Verdonk commissioned an inquiry into the radicalization of young Muslims. The conclusion was that many of them experience alienation, feeling disconnected with both their first-generation immigrant parents and from Dutch society. Previous reports had already found that young Muslims don't share the deep ethno-national attachment their parents feel with their country of origin, and instead are coming to identify primarily with their religion. While they participate less in religious activities than their parents, they more strongly link their identity with Islam and with the global Muslim community; radical and orthodox Islamic groups offer some of these young Muslims clear answers and a firm sense of belonging. While prior research found that the degree of religiosity in general decreases among Muslims with higher education and stable employment, the new report noted that highly educated young Muslims can also experience "relative deprivation" all the more strongly - the sense that despite their efforts they receive fewer opportunities than native Dutch of the same generation - and turn to radicalism in anger and frustration.


Hows that whole integration thing working out for you guys in Europe?

This copy-paste is supposedly in response to Neil stating that his country is not as homogenous as you originally claimed.

How does your Wikipedia copy-paste dispute Neil's statement? He is simply saying that his country is 15% Muslim, and that it is therefore unfair to categorize it as simply "homogenous" (and then list that as a reason for the sustenance of its welfare state, as you did). I can't see how posting an article talking about the issues some Muslim immigrants in The Netherlands face with assimilation refutes the claim that his nation is not as homogenous as you implied earlier.

Quote:Quote:

People are celebrating this "decline," like it's a good thing. Do you really think that human rights and equality are going to magically spread in the world when/if China becomes the pre-eminent superpower?

Who in this thread made that assertion? Who in here tried to claim that China would fill a hypothetical power vacuum left by the USA with greater benevolence?

You seem to enjoy creating strawmen.

Know your enemy and know yourself, find naught in fear for 100 battles. Know yourself but not your enemy, find level of loss and victory. Know thy enemy but not yourself, wallow in defeat every time.
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#40

To every dude who complains about being an American citizen (rant)

When some people read the allegedly "anti-American" threads I think there's a key distinction that needs to be made which some don't easily pick up on. No one generally complains about the structure of the U.S. or the nation itself. Most of the problems with the U.S. come down to one thing: the people here.

As far as what's wrong with the women, there's a hundred pages of info about that on this forum so I won't rehash it.

Generally it is the selfishness and anti-social attitude that most Americans have. For most people it's a game of "I need to get rich as quick as possible and fuck everyone else over so they can't get to where I'm at." For example, our wealthiest individuals and corporations complain about things like being taxed too much or having "socialized" healthcare, so they use their fortunes to lobby in order to have the laws written in their favor and screw everyone else over. This process has generally been getting worse and worse and has decreased quality of life for pretty much everyone except the rich... and I hate to break it to you guys, but if you weren't born rich here there's pretty much zero chance of it ever happening.

On the political level, you're only going to attempt to make a difference if you have millions of dollars to campaign for a major office, so see my earlier point about this never happening unless you're already rolling in cash to begin with. Even then, you'd pretty much be forced to tow the line and maintain the status quo, because there's already such wealth and momentum being invested in keeping things the way they are.

A lot of the other issues with materialism and greed overlap this phenomenon. It's a money/status game that a few get to play at everyone else's expense. The U.S. would be a much better place if we didn't have individuals and corporations with large fortunes gaming the political system to throw everyone else under the bus and buying large media networks to delude the populace with "news" about what's really going on.

Also, keep in mind that many of the average people here buy into this (even indirectly) by believing that "taxes are bad", "universal healthcare is socialism", etc. Many of them also believe that they will one day be a part of the wealthy class as long as they get a college degree or work enough hours or whatever.... so they inadvertently adopt a lot of the ideals that keep them where they're at, and keep the rich in a privileged spot, which makes things worse.
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#41

To every dude who complains about being an American citizen (rant)

Quote:Quote:

Quote:Quote:

Quote:Quote:

People are celebrating this "decline," like it's a good thing. Do you really think that human rights and equality are going to magically spread in the world when/if China becomes the pre-eminent superpower?

Who in this thread made that assertion? Who in here tried to claim that China would fill a hypothetical power vacuum left by the USA with greater benevolence?

You seem to enjoy creating strawmen.

You both make good points. It's good to look at all the hypothetical scenarios. Personally, I see America as the new Rome... how or when it [we] falls is another matter.

Vice-Captain - #TeamWaitAndSee
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#42

To every dude who complains about being an American citizen (rant)

Quote: (09-01-2011 09:11 PM)Vitriol Wrote:  

When some people read the allegedly "anti-American" threads I think there's a key distinction that needs to be made which some don't easily pick up on. No one generally complains about the structure of the U.S. or the nation itself. Most of the problems with the U.S. come down to one thing: the people here.


Most countries if not all, are defined by their people so I am not sure I get what you are saying.

How can one say I like America but not the people? A country is defined by the people. The policies put in place, the resources utilised are defined by the people who reside there.

Just wondering what you mean, that's all.

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#43

To every dude who complains about being an American citizen (rant)

Quote:Quote:

What is your point? If you can illustrate it clearly without simply copy-pasting an article, I'd appreciate it.

Miller's point is that consumerism in the US is due to the fact that we are a diverse society. Because we don't have non-material norms to compare ourselves with (which would exist in a homogenous society) we have to revert to conspicuous consumption in order to gain status. He goes into much further detail in his book, and the quote I put explains it in closer detail. His other famous work is "The Mating Mind," which I highly recommend for gaming purposes.

Quote:Quote:

OldNemesis already took care of this one, but I'll add further that you've not really made a point here. You stated that a Russian citizen had to steal and bribe to get anywhere. This article does not sufficiently substantiate the absolute statement you made.

Well actually, if you continue reading the article it goes into detail on how corruption pervades everyday life there, so I don't really see how he negates my point.

-----Areas of corruption
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Russia
Today all areas of government are corrupted: people give bribes to get an assignment for a child to a kinder garden, to avoid army service; it has roots up to the highest ranks of the governmental spheres. Corruption is an ordinary part of life for all social levels. Areas that are mostly subject to corruption are:
customs: bribes for letting forbidden goods across border, return of confiscated goods and currencies, reduction of customs fees, just to avoid ungrounded delays at the border, unjustified delays of customs payments;
medical organizations: bribes to procure equipment and medicine for higher prices, to get false medical papers/certificates, to get served faster at the expense of other customers;
motor licensing and inspection: bribes to get unjustified driving licenses and maintenance checkup lists, to avoid penalty for breaking rules on the road, to forge data and conclusions about road accidents in favor of bribe-givers;
judicial bodies: biased hearing of cases, taking unjust decisions, breaking procedural rules, contradictory decisions of different judges on the same case, using law-courts as a tool of raiding captures;
tax bodies: reduced tax levy, return of VAT, checks and stoppage of production induced by competitors;
law enforcement bodies: to institute or stop legal proceedings, sending them to additional investigation, to avoid legal punishment for breaking law;
bureaucracy: to get necessary papers, permits etc.;
anti-corruption movements: is actually a cover to divide and steal the funds given to fight corruption;
higher education institutions: buying and selling diplomas, getting higher grades for exams, admitting to universities people with unsatisfactory level of knowledge;
licensing and registering entrepreneurial activity;
authorizing bank transactions for budgetary funds;
credit approvals;
export quota approvals;
tenders for goods/services procurement from budgetary funds;
construction building and repair works at the budgetary funds expense;
notarization of transactions;
control over licensing rules observance;
supervision of hunting and fishing activities;
release from army service;
entering higher education institutions (mainly ones majoring in law and economics);
governmental registration, certification and accreditation of private higher education institutions;
getting into secondary education institutions and pre-school establishments;
employing to state and municipal establishments with high illegal revenue;
forming party electoral lists.
---------------



Quote:Quote:

This copy-paste is supposedly in response to Neil stating that his country is not as homogenous as you originally claimed.

How does your Wikipedia copy-paste dispute Neil's statement? He is simply saying that his country is 15% Muslim, and that it is therefore unfair to categorize it as simply "homogenous" (and then list that as a reason for the sustenance of its welfare state, as you did). I can't see how posting an article talking about the issues some Muslim immigrants in The Netherlands face with assimilation refutes the claim that his nation is not as homogenous as you implied earlier.

My original point was that it is far tougher being a minority in Europe than in the US, because the societies there are more homogenous and national identity is more tied to ethnic identity. He countered that there were 15% Muslims in Europe. My point is that he has nothing to be proud of - the fact that that minority group (justifiably or not, that's not the point) feels isolated and disconnected from society and very few members have risen to leadership positions proves that the US is a far more welcoming country to various ethnic groups than Europe is.



Quote:Quote:

Who in this thread made that assertion? Who in here tried to claim that China would fill a hypothetical power vacuum left by the USA with greater benevolence?

You seem to enjoy creating strawmen.

Actually, I was quoting the person right above me.

Quote:Quote:

America finds itself like the prom queen who just turned 40. We were on top of the world and the best at everything 60 years ago. Everyone loved us. Now we're on the decline. So we're pissed off and bitter, dumbfounded as to how this could have happened to us.

Correction, I don't think that its really celebrating. More like, it's the attitude that we deserve it, and that it's inevitable.

I'm not hating, it just pains me to see alot of talented people on this forum thinking of every way possible to distance themselves from the US (after enjoying the benefits of being raised here and going to school here) instead of trying to make the country better.

You make good points, and sorry if I wasn't clear in my posts. There are good aspects and bad aspects of life in the US, and being an American citizen in general, and there are good and bad aspects to our huge influence in the world. There's alot we can learn from other countries.

My main point, though, is look at any other country in the world. With the exception of Western Europe and Northeast Asia, would you have preferred to be a native born citizen there (with no family wealth to back you up) or would you have preferred to be an American? And my main point w/ regard to Western Europe and Northeast Asia is that those countries have their national identity strongly tied to their ethnic identity that makes assimilation harder. The UK.....is so closely linked to the US culturally and politically that it's not really a fair argument to say that it represents a distinct alternative.

There just seems to be alot of America hate. Sure, some of it is merited, but look at the state of the world in general....the vast majority of the world has far more dysfunction than the US...it's hard to see as a tourist or an expat, but there's a reason why people still want to move to the US.
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#44

To every dude who complains about being an American citizen (rant)

You can be bitter about the place you grow up. It's not just limited to people who grow up in the U.S.

When you feel something is wrong, you want to identify it and try to correct it. People on this forum are all probably familiar with certain self-help/self-advancement ideas.

When someone points out that there is something wrong with America it doesn't necessarily mean he hates America. If anything, he wants to see that problem "fixed" so that America can be better.

If you think the United States is perfect you are delusional. I know you're not saying that, but to say that USA is #1 (USA! USA! USA!) and that there's no room for improvement, and anyone who suggests there is is a commie/liberal/hippy/etc. is bullshit.

For a few guys on this forum, there is a problem with American society in one form or another. Some people point out that American women, through their "liberation" have only achieved material success, while tearing down the traditional family. Some people point out that certain Americans are shallow and it's hard to get along with them if you're not from the US or certain other English speaking countries. I don't think anyone has said that all 300+ million people in the United States are jerks.

What's wrong with traveling abroad and pointing out that things work better in other countries? What's wrong with questioning the direction America is taking? One aspect of a rational human being is to think critically. It is one trait we have that we should be proud of. And then we have people who say we shouldn't think critically and just go along, because "It's my way or the highway, bud!"
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#45

To every dude who complains about being an American citizen (rant)

Quote: (09-02-2011 01:26 PM)kerouac Wrote:  

You can be bitter about the place you grow up. It's not just limited to people who grow up in the U.S.

When you feel something is wrong, you want to identify it and try to correct it. People on this forum are all probably familiar with certain self-help/self-advancement ideas.

When someone points out that there is something wrong with America it doesn't necessarily mean he hates America. If anything, he wants to see that problem "fixed" so that America can be better.

If you think the United States is perfect you are delusional. I know you're not saying that, but to say that USA is #1 (USA! USA! USA!) and that there's no room for improvement, and anyone who suggests there is is a commie/liberal/hippy/etc. is bullshit.



What's wrong with traveling abroad and pointing out that things work better in other countries? What's wrong with questioning the direction America is taking? One aspect of a rational human being is to think critically. It is one trait we have that we should be proud of. And then we have people who say we shouldn't think critically and just go along, because "It's my way or the highway, bud!"

You make a very good point. I do get the feel from this forum when people keep saying American lizards are this and they are that but are they talking to all sorts of American lizards?

Do immigrant American lizard display the same behaviour? If a lizard comes in from Croatia, does she suddenly transform?

I think Toronto lizards are flakey but I wouldn't write off Canada based on those experiences. I've been to other parts of Canada where the women are beautiful and very easy to talk to and get along with.

Many Canadians who were born and bred here, have not been to the parts of Canada that I have been to. They have not mingled with different sorts of people.

As it stands, I have my preference but I pipe down PRACTICALLY any type of lizard from any race. I have my preferences but there is no RACE that I am turned off from.

From Amazonian black to albino midget, I'd hit them all as long as they meet the prerequisite T&A with feminine face.

I wonder if that can be said the same for some of the American cats here? Have they spoken to all sorts of lizards in America, both born and immigrated?

Or does EVERY SINGLE lizard that comes under the American influence turn out EXACTLY like her born and bred counterparts?

I'm just wondering.

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#46

To every dude who complains about being an American citizen (rant)

Moma, most guys in the US stick with one "type" . Do you think that any of my friends go down to the hood with me or even think about the black lizards?
You have it right. If I feel like being around non english speaking latinas tonight...Its not a problem at all.
If I feel like going to a Klan meeting to meet nazi girls? No problem.
Greek night? In walking distance.
Party in an mexican trailer park and break corona bottles? Sure its friday...5 minutes away.
Most guys here(US) do not mix it up period. Don't let any hype change your mind Moma. Its all b.s.
English girls? St pete beach almost all year round.
We have a jamaican community here..No problem man. go down to the jerk shack and pop a beer open.
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#47

To every dude who complains about being an American citizen (rant)

Quote: (09-02-2011 04:09 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Moma, most guys in the US stick with one "type" . Do you think that any of my friends go down to the hood with me or even think about the black lizards?
You have it right. If I feel like being around non english speaking latinas tonight...Its not a problem at all.
If I feel like going to a Klan meeting to meet nazi girls? No problem.
Greek night? In walking distance.
Party in an mexican trailer park and break corona bottles? Sure its friday...5 minutes away.
Most guys here(US) do not mix it up period. Don't let any hype change your mind Moma. Its all b.s.

I figured as much, el mechanico. Me growing up in multicultural cities ALL my life, I am very comfortable with rolling with different crowds and hitting lizards from different circles.

Thanks for the clarity.

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An Ode To Lizards
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#48

To every dude who complains about being an American citizen (rant)

I think most of us are in or from big cities (man are there a lot of Washingtonians on this forum or what?). We are mostly talking about big city women, especially on the coasts. That's part of why we are here, no? Trying to figure out how to overcome those kevlar bitch shields.

Point taken about other regions of America. I have met some Southern girls who were the epitome of femininity and grace, and cute to boot. Once you get away from career metropolises and get down to small-town America, there are gems to be found. Mixx seemed to live it up in Fargo, and I have no doubt that women were much more reasonable and sweet there.

But Mecanico is right. Most of us are not going out of our comfort zones to find a good sexy woman. We keep waiting for the bitchy girl with a liberal arts degree to change, and then complain when she doesn't. We go where she hangs out with her entitled princess friends. A friend of mine got with a cute Central American illegal immigrant waitress a few years back, and she was a girly-girl and fun to be around. But how me people here are gonna go seek that kinda tail out? Takes an adventurous spirit.
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#49

To every dude who complains about being an American citizen (rant)

Quote: (09-02-2011 01:08 PM)ao85 Wrote:  

Well actually, if you continue reading the article it goes into detail on how corruption pervades everyday life there, so I don't really see how he negates my point.

I already told you that you have no personal experience there, and applying very generalized articles as it is every citizen's experience. Yes, there is corruption in Russia, and there is corruption in US - at least nobody in Russia tried to sell the Senate seat yet - but your statement that an ordinary citizen has to kill and bribe to get any level of success is a very gross misstatement.

Quote:Quote:

My main point, though, is look at any other country in the world. With the exception of Western Europe and Northeast Asia, would you have preferred to be a native born citizen there (with no family wealth to back you up) or would you have preferred to be an American?

You excluded Middle East; being a man you'd do pretty well in a lot of rich Muslim countries. Places like Brunei or Qatar, for example. Australia, NZ and Canada don't look too bad either, there are some drawbacks but there are some benefits as well. Eastern Europe which is part of EU is doing relatively well too. Singapore and Taiwan are very acceptable (weather sucks though).
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#50

To every dude who complains about being an American citizen (rant)

Moma -

"I do get the feel from this forum when people keep saying American lizards are this and they are that but are they talking to all sorts of American lizards?"

I am speaking for myself, but when I say "American girls" I mean, white, lower -middle to upper middle class girls that grew up in suburbia, more or less.
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