[Jack Ronin]

My personality type is INTJ. It has been quite difficult for me throughout my life to be social. I find much of conversation tedious and empty small talk.

Because of this and my often melancholic demeanor, I have the hardest time relating to others. My personality type has caused me lots of problems in relationships with women as I can often be cold and distant.

I've tried diligently to change this with some degree of success in the past. The problem right now is I cannot alter my mental state from this grim aura into positive or upbeat. As most of you know here, this is like chick repellent and causes me some inner pain due to lack of human connection.

If anyone has gone through similar things please share how you deal with it.

I was diagnosed as a child with manic depression and I've largely dealt with it through my own initiative to change my mental state. Only it seems I must want to feel miserable at this time. Dealing with some guilt and shame as well but I keep wondering if it is misplaced.

[Mikestar]

Of course the solution to this is not easy, I would say you need to stop putting yourself in a frame saying you have this type of personality because I used to be a total introvert with depression a couple of years ago and now this is not the case. Can you specify more details of what your issues are? You must identify these issues and if they cannot be changed you must not care about them, a good tactic for you would probably be a drastic change in your life, even little things like getting a suave haircut, taking up the gym or sports as hobbies. Depression is literally your mind concaving on itself - you must reverse this and release your energy by stepping out of comfort zones both physically and mentally. Also, try and improve human connection by talking to anyone you can, just try socialise in any scenario. I also recommend doing nofap (no porn especially) as it allows sexually energy to be chanelled towards girls in real life by making you more confident and mentally sharp. Avoid junk food and too much drugs/alcohol and aim to get outside in the fresh air everyday. In terms of feeling cold and distant when assosciating with women in relationships, I would say don't talk to women about over-complex things and find a common ground to talk about - and dont overthink about what to talk about just go with your natural flow. I used to face similiar issues as you because I found many conversations with girls uncomfortable and tedious like you say, I overcame this by adding more humour to my conversations but also keeping it simple, small talk is not even a bad thing with girls, you should in fact implement it more with humour added e.g. (girl is wearing a bracelet) and you ask: what does it mean? Such a simple question can get a natural conversation going and this can be arguably better than talking for one hour about something complex.

These are general tips although your case may be different, I used to be depressed not long ago but honestly if you find yourself, at least attempt to become the best version of yourself and let time do its thing, youll be fine

[Jack Ronin]

(04-20-2017 05:03 PM)Mikestar Wrote:  

Of course the solution to this is not easy, I would say you need to stop putting yourself in a frame saying you have this type of personality because I used to be a total introvert with depression a couple of years ago and now this is not the case. Can you specify more details of what your issues are? You must identify these issues and if they cannot be changed you must not care about them, a good tactic for you would probably be a drastic change in your life, even little things like getting a suave haircut, taking up the gym or sports as hobbies. Depression is literally your mind concaving on itself - you must reverse this and release your energy by stepping out of comfort zones both physically and mentally. Also, try and improve human connection by talking to anyone you can, just try socialise in any scenario. I also recommend doing nofap (no porn especially) as it allows sexually energy to be chanelled towards girls in real life by making you more confident and mentally sharp. Avoid junk food and too much drugs/alcohol and aim to get outside in the fresh air everyday. In terms of feeling cold and distant when assosciating with women in relationships, I would say don't talk to women about over-complex things and find a common ground to talk about - and dont overthink about what to talk about just go with your natural flow. I used to face similiar issues as you because I found many conversations with girls uncomfortable and tedious like you say, I overcame this by adding more humour to my conversations but also keeping it simple, small talk is not even a bad thing with girls, you should in fact implement it more with humour added e.g. (girl is wearing a bracelet) and you ask: what does it mean? Such a simple question can get a natural conversation going and this can be arguably better than talking for one hour about something complex.

These are general tips although your case may be different, I used to be depressed not long ago but honestly if you find yourself, at least attempt to become the best version of yourself and let time do its thing, youll be fine

Thanks a lot for the response Mike. I would agree. I need to stop putting myself in this negative frame.

I've been a mess for the past 2 years mentally. I've excelled in financial areas but regressed socially. The major factor was ending a toxic 3 year relationship that I probably still feel guilt towards. I was quite vocal in telling people around me just how much of a prick I was towards the ex. In fact I was vocal in letting other girls around me know just how little I respected or cared for them.

Because of my big mouth I ruined an opportunity with one of the only decent girls I know. I asked to take her to dinner the other night and she said how she knew that I treated women bad in the past and she wanted to keep me as a friend even though she said she likes me.

Again I'm kinda beating myself up over this because I know it was my fault. I ran my fucking mouth too much and now I'm paying for it. I pushed the only girl I ever cared about away from me permanently and now it still gives me pain to this day. Some memories haunt me and I want nothing more than to no longer deal with it. I dont feel like Im being congruent socially any longer. I cant bring myself to simply enjoy the moment with other people.

[Fightersword]

I feel like my situation has been similar to yours. I have Aspergers and throughout my entire life have struggled socially. I was never really depressed, since in many ways I was happier being by myself at the time, but I was always envious of others that seemed to have a much easier time being social. I had a couple girlfriends in high school where I essentially lucked out, but neither of them went well and mostly ended up making me doubt myself.

I'm glad I can say I've worked through quite a lot of the social problems at this point. Not totally, and I still have to work very hard on my gamne, both inner and outer, to get the results I want, both with women and life in general. The key has really been persistenbce. I just decided to make being more social my life. I haven't gone crazy with it, and I still have plenty of nights to myself doing whatever I feel like, but I can at least function relatively well with others, and make friends and get girls.

When I started it absolutely sucked. I didn't like being social at all. But through repetition I eventually grew to enjoy it quite a bit. As I made it a part of my life it became a lot easier and more enjoyable.

As for guilt and shame, the reason you hold on to that so much likely stems from something else, such as your diagnosis or something else in your life. I have a lot less experience with that in particular, I can only really say that guilt and shame are really sort of pointless. They're essentially there to be a mark of a 'lesson' you've learned, either due to doing something wrong or a failure on your part. They literally exist to scare you off from things your mind dictates as 'bad' for some reason. The thing is, all they do is paralyze you and ruin your mood. If you figure out something is wrong, then being guilty or ashamed you have done it is pointless, because you already realize you shouldn't do it anyway. And if it's for something you know you should be doing, then all it does is get in the way. I'd talk to someone about your particular guilt and shame that knows you and you trust to help bring you away from it. Finding new hobbies and things to do with your time (game related or not) will also help your shame and guilt fade, because you'll be expending less energy on thinking about them.

[Jack Ronin]

(04-20-2017 06:53 PM)Fightersword Wrote:  

I feel like my situation has been similar to yours. I have Aspergers and throughout my entire life have struggled socially. I was never really depressed, since in many ways I was happier being by myself at the time, but I was always envious of others that seemed to have a much easier time being social. I had a couple girlfriends in high school where I essentially lucked out, but neither of them went well and mostly ended up making me doubt myself.

I'm glad I can say I've worked through quite a lot of the social problems at this point. Not totally, and I still have to work very hard on my gamne, both inner and outer, to get the results I want, both with women and life in general. The key has really been persistenbce. I just decided to make being more social my life. I haven't gone crazy with it, and I still have plenty of nights to myself doing whatever I feel like, but I can at least function relatively well with others, and make friends and get girls.

When I started it absolutely sucked. I didn't like being social at all. But through repetition I eventually grew to enjoy it quite a bit. As I made it a part of my life it became a lot easier and more enjoyable.

As for guilt and shame, the reason you hold on to that so much likely stems from something else, such as your diagnosis or something else in your life. I have a lot less experience with that in particular, I can only really say that guilt and shame are really sort of pointless. They're essentially there to be a mark of a 'lesson' you've learned, either due to doing something wrong or a failure on your part. They literally exist to scare you off from things your mind dictates as 'bad' for some reason. The thing is, all they do is paralyze you and ruin your mood. If you figure out something is wrong, then being guilty or ashamed you have done it is pointless, because you already realize you shouldn't do it anyway. And if it's for something you know you should be doing, then all it does is get in the way. I'd talk to someone about your particular guilt and shame that knows you and you trust to help bring you away from it. Finding new hobbies and things to do with your time (game related or not) will also help your shame and guilt fade, because you'll be expending less energy on thinking about them.

Hey thanks so much for the response. It resonates really deeply with me right now. I agree completely about the guilt and shame. In fact I've written about these topics a great deal on my own blog. I know in my mind that guilt and shame are pointless but there is some disconnect regarding this particular thing and so many conflicting emotions that it brings up in me.

In many ways it is a culmination of what I now see as bad decisions and the resulting bad shit I'm now feeling is due to my own hubris. It really fucking stings this one does. Maybe I'm feeling like I deserve this and need to feel those things.

I have friends I can talk to but honestly I don't think they'd understand. My problem is I am my own worst enemy. I know this. I'm paying for it.

[WoeMachine]

These things are not set in stone fact.

I recently did a personality test and got an INT-J result too, but I have become like this by isolating myself, doing nothing to improve myself and steering into the problem rather than away. By feeling isolated and unsociable, I have effectively made myself more isolated and unsociable and the problem exacerbates.

I know for a fact between the ages 17-25 I wasn't like this, I was incredibly sociable and outgoing. Then a few of my good friends died, I outgrew my other friends, stopped socializing, going out and interacting with females and I became what I'm trying to unbecome right now (age 31).

I have wasted 6 years of my prime, I can never get that back, but a mistake is only a mistake if nothing is learned.

You (or me) are not going to get better if we simply tell ourselves we are destined to be INT-J types with no social life, friends, women or fun, are we? We're going to continue to be isolated and die friendless, sexless and depressed.

It's like going to the gym, looking in a mirror and saying "Ah I'm skinny, and I want to be muscular, it's not going to happen, best go home and play World of Warcraft". You're only going to build muscle by lifting.

Your brain is a muscle too. You're only going to make it grow by exercising it. One thing that helps me is to practice social skill stuff with hairdressers, people at work, charity workers in the street and get just comfortable shooting the shit with randoms. Then you can progress from there.

You're not alone. I had become increasingly isolated and cold, distant and defensive with people for 6 years. Positive thinking is a skill, and like any skill, one must practice it to become better.

Things that are worthwhile are rarely easy, and things that are easy are rarely worthwhile.

[Topsdown]

I too have this problem in terms of isolation and depression although not of the manic variety. Anyway, the other guys have said pretty much what I would have. I guess I would say look at Roosh's program (there are other ones) and perhaps make a thread showing what you are doing to improve and keep everyone up to date.

[Sisyphus]

I think it's important to not say "I have depression" versus "I am depressed." The difference is subtle but significant. If you tell yourself you have depression then it's like this thing that is just part of you that you can't control. Confirmation bias runs wild and everything you read about depression will just make it worse - avoid trying to understand it by reading all about it.

True clinical depression is pretty rare. That's when you don't get out of bed for 6 months. You probably don't have that so you can improve your mental state without hospitalization and drugs.

Some are suggesting lifting, but I would start your exercise regime with cardio. It'll feel good to move around and give you some natural endorphins. It will also help with getting your sleep schedule consistent. For whatever exercise you do you can add a little distance or speed each time, and progress will give you something to look forward to each time. Lifting as a small guy (if that's what you are) in a gym isn't going to give you much of a confidence boost.

Next, think of the things that give you pleasure in the life and find a way to incorporate other people into them. It doesn't matter if it's something "dorky" or "nerdy" like video games or Dungeons & Dragons. Some might disagree, but you need socialization to get you going in the right direction. It may not put you in the top ranks of players right away, but don't underestimate the value of social proof and strong social ties. I think a guy with strong friends in nerdy hobbies is more attractive than someone who's too worried about being cool to do something he enjoys with other people.

Remember that it's a long game, and don't expect instantaneous results. There will be setbacks but you have to keep your goals in mind and keep fighting through it.

[Windom Earle]

You are depressed and rudderless because you don't have a sense of belonging.

Notwithstanding your introverted nature, man needs a sense of belonging/purpose and of being valued in some way.

Defy your tendency to withdraw and seek out people/groups that you share common interests with.

[Jack Ronin]

(04-21-2017 10:04 AM)WoeMachine Wrote:  

These things are not set in stone fact.

I recently did a personality test and got an INT-J result too, but I have become like this by isolating myself, doing nothing to improve myself and steering into the problem rather than away. By feeling isolated and unsociable, I have effectively made myself more isolated and unsociable and the problem exacerbates.

I know for a fact between the ages 17-25 I wasn't like this, I was incredibly sociable and outgoing. Then a few of my good friends died, I outgrew my other friends, stopped socializing, going out and interacting with females and I became what I'm trying to unbecome right now (age 31).

I have wasted 6 years of my prime, I can never get that back, but a mistake is only a mistake if nothing is learned.

You (or me) are not going to get better if we simply tell ourselves we are destined to be INT-J types with no social life, friends, women or fun, are we? We're going to continue to be isolated and die friendless, sexless and depressed.

It's like going to the gym, looking in a mirror and saying "Ah I'm skinny, and I want to be muscular, it's not going to happen, best go home and play World of Warcraft". You're only going to build muscle by lifting.

Your brain is a muscle too. You're only going to make it grow by exercising it. One thing that helps me is to practice social skill stuff with hairdressers, people at work, charity workers in the street and get just comfortable shooting the shit with randoms. Then you can progress from there.

You're not alone. I had become increasingly isolated and cold, distant and defensive with people for 6 years. Positive thinking is a skill, and like any skill, one must practice it to become better.

Things that are worthwhile are rarely easy, and things that are easy are rarely worthwhile.

You're right. Solid advice.

[Jack Ronin]

(04-21-2017 09:32 PM)Windom Earle Wrote:  

You are depressed and rudderless because you don't have a sense of belonging.

Notwithstanding your introverted nature, man needs a sense of belonging/purpose and of being valued in some way.

Defy your tendency to withdraw and seek out people/groups that you share common interests with.

The sense of belonging has always been an issue with me. Thing is I'm a part of some communities that share common interests. I used to be a pro fighter in MMA. Been an kickboxing instructor for years. I haven't trained hardly at all in the past 4 months or so. I'm sure that is a large factor which isn't helping my negative outlooks. Need to get my ass in there.

I have a close group of friends which are solid guys yet no matter which groups or friends I'm a part of.. I never feel like I belong to the group. It's always as if I'm on the outside looking in. Guess I have to fight that idea....that I'm always isolated.

[Leonard D Neubache]

Going straight from depression to learning game is like learning how to swim by jumping in the deep end.

Human interaction is a skill like any other and most people in the world were in your position at some stage in their youth. Unfortunately some develop human interaction skills more easily than others.

My advice would be to do some charity work. Even just once a week. Don't even focus on talking. Just let people talk at you and listen to them. Practice being observant and respectful. From there you start with small interactions like intermittent notations.
"That must have been hard..."
"That's incredible..."
"I can't imagine..."

From there you move to interactive speech. Asking questions and directing the conversation.
"What happened then...?"
"Was he always like that...?"
"When did you first know...?"

There's an old saying. When you listen, you learn. When you talk, you teach.

People often think that the way to learn how to talk to people is simply to do it, but my experience is that listening to other people is more important, at least to begin with. And you know, people often have some amazing stories. Even seemingly boring people. Talk to some guy who's 90 years old and you can be damn sure he has some interesting things to tell you. And God, but don't women love to talk. Learn to listen and you can slide them into that comfort zone fast (just pull up for the notch before you hit the friendzone).

That's just my two cents. Learning to be comfortable around people is the first step, and the easiest way to do this is to put yourself in a low-risk, low expectation setting (charity work) and just be that guy that smiles and listens to people. Doing that will change your life.

[realologist]

Start with doing an activity with people. Make it something you like that you used to do but don't do it anymore.

Start off small and do it only once a week. Don't skip it!

Once you find yourself enjoying it more go another day or add another activity you like a different day.

Repeat until you no longer feel depressed and isolated.

Game should be the last thing on your mind right now. You should be working on building social interactions with people and getting out of your depression. Game can come much much later because I bet if you get with a chick and the relationship fails you will fall right back into the depression and isolation.

[RIslander]

My advice to you: Join a Crossfit gym. Crossfit gets some hate on the forum and in some of the respectable weightlifting forums but for an introverted guy looking for self improvement and forced social interactions, its a great choice. Its like joining a fraternity in college. I've gotten alot out of it having moved to several cities across America not knowing a single person. Classes tend to be 50% female and opening girls after a workout while stretching and cooling off tends to be fairly easy.

[Fortis]

Depression: Lift and work towards something YOU give a shit about. DO SOMETHING YOU WANT TO DO. TAKE ACTION.

Isolation: See which RVF guys are near you and make some friends.

I think RVF helped me a lot with my depression and Isolation. Look back at my posts from when I first joined and read my posts now. I feel like a different (better) man.

[Rhyme or Reason]

First question: Are you on medication for manic depression? (bi-polar)

I'm an INTP, so quite similar in personality types, except for I lean more in the Perception direction than Judgement.

The proliferation of the Myeres Briggs Type Indicator seems to have led people to believe that there are "good" personality types and "bad" personality types. It's far from the truth. The MBTI test is meant to help you identify what stimulates you, and what turns you off. What environments you thrive in, and which you don't. It's a tool to be used for your benefit, not to condemn you to a life of depression. It's also to show you that you have a basic personality type that you can't really change. However, you can engage in activities which are compatible with your personality type, and in turn, maximize your happiness and success.

Quote:

I've tried diligently to change this with some degree of success in the past.

Why? You seem to be operating under the false assumption that if you "change" your personality to be more extraverted that you will be happier. The reverse is true.

Here's the definition of Introversion according to MBTI:

Quote:

Introversion (I): People who prefer Introversion tend to direct their energy toward their inner world and get energized by reflecting on their
ideas and experiences.

I bolded the above to illustrate that being an introvert is not necessarily inconsistent with being social. I am classified as an introvert and enjoy social interaction, particularly on a one-on-one basis. I suspect that you may be this way as well.

Introverts like to be alone. This is how we re-energize. However, social interaction is still vital to combat depression and alleviate feelings of isolation, which causes depression.

On the other hand, an extrovert gets their energy from being around others. It doesn't necessarily mean they have better social skills.

It all comes down to energy.

Extraverts like to give speeches. Run for office. Be the center of attention. And that's what gives them energy. As an introvert, these activities would exhaust you/ us. It doesn't mean you wouldn't be good at it, but it would be tiresome.

Don't try to be an extravert if you aren't one. As an introvert, you respond positively to a different set of stimuli than an extravert. So don't concern yourself with all these other people and what they're doing.

I can tell you that the times I've felt isolated and depressed, and tried to go the extravert route and socialize as a way to get more energized, it had the opposite effect, and I was more miserable. When I embraced the introvert side of myself and recharged my batteries that way, it always had a positive affect. Unlike my extravert friends, who like to go out and socialize when they're depressed as a therapy method, I always found that to be unfulfilling.


Instead I like to take an honest look in the mirror and self diagnose, start from scratch, and re-align my priorities.

[Jack Ronin]

(04-22-2017 08:09 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Going straight from depression to learning game is like learning how to swim by jumping in the deep end.

Human interaction is a skill like any other and most people in the world were in your position at some stage in their youth. Unfortunately some develop human interaction skills more easily than others.

My advice would be to do some charity work. Even just once a week. Don't even focus on talking. Just let people talk at you and listen to them. Practice being observant and respectful. From there you start with small interactions like intermittent notations.
"That must have been hard..."
"That's incredible..."
"I can't imagine..."

From there you move to interactive speech. Asking questions and directing the conversation.
"What happened then...?"
"Was he always like that...?"
"When did you first know...?"

There's an old saying. When you listen, you learn. When you talk, you teach.

People often think that the way to learn how to talk to people is simply to do it, but my experience is that listening to other people is more important, at least to begin with. And you know, people often have some amazing stories. Even seemingly boring people. Talk to some guy who's 90 years old and you can be damn sure he has some interesting things to tell you. And God, but don't women love to talk. Learn to listen and you can slide them into that comfort zone fast (just pull up for the notch before you hit the friendzone).

That's just my two cents. Learning to be comfortable around people is the first step, and the easiest way to do this is to put yourself in a low-risk, low expectation setting (charity work) and just be that guy that smiles and listens to people. Doing that will change your life.

This is all good advice. I gotta be honest here though. When it comes to conversing with people, I really don't care about whatever interests them, what they've done, who they know and which corporate turds they consume. It gets harder and harder for me to pretend that I care also.

Unless I can make money off them, fuck them or they are offering something of more value I generally don't want to see or speak with people.

I say many of those conversational things you mentioned like
"that's incredible"
"that must've been hard" etc

I say these things but my mind isn't even paying attention to what they are talking about and to be honest...I don't care. Most people I talk to I don't find very interesting.......ESPECIALLY women.

Since I learned game I had down pat the douche bag asshole direct game. The problem for me now is I refuse to be a dancing monkey for these fucking worthless whores just to score some washed up snatch.

I'd rather pay for a few prostitutes, some cocaine and get my fuckin money's worth. When it's all said and done I don't have to waste any time pretending I give a rat's furry fuckin ass about a dipshit female's tard opinions.......spare me.

Charity work I could maybe do just for the experience. Just to see how a legit con game is ran and to feel good about myself for seeing people who are failing big time in life.

The truth is I'm doing quite well in a lot of areas in my life. In fact I've surpassed myself in several ways. I just want to feel more "congruent" socially I suppose. I think that is going to mean I just say how Im really feeling. Which is that everyone can kiss my ass and suck my dick.

However I realize that for business, jobs and what not I have to put on this stupid fuckin amiable pretend face. It's really god damn tedious.

[Jack Ronin]

(04-22-2017 01:06 PM)Rhyme or Reason Wrote:  

First question: Are you on medication for manic depression? (bi-polar)

I'm an INTP, so quite similar in personality types, except for I lean more in the Perception direction than Judgement.

The proliferation of the Myeres Briggs Type Indicator seems to have led people to believe that there are "good" personality types and "bad" personality types. It's far from the truth. The MBTI test is meant to help you identify what stimulates you, and what turns you off. What environments you thrive in, and which you don't. It's a tool to be used for your benefit, not to condemn you to a life of depression. It's also to show you that you have a basic personality type that you can't really change. However, you can engage in activities which are compatible with your personality type, and in turn, maximize your happiness and success.

Quote:

I've tried diligently to change this with some degree of success in the past.

Why? You seem to be operating under the false assumption that if you "change" your personality to be more extraverted that you will be happier. The reverse is true.

Here's the definition of Introversion according to MBTI:

Quote:

Introversion (I): People who prefer Introversion tend to direct their energy toward their inner world and get energized by reflecting on their
ideas and experiences.

I bolded the above to illustrate that being an introvert is not necessarily inconsistent with being social. I am classified as an introvert and enjoy social interaction, particularly on a one-on-one basis. I suspect that you may be this way as well.

Introverts like to be alone. This is how we re-energize. However, social interaction is still vital to combat depression and alleviate feelings of isolation, which causes depression.

On the other hand, an extrovert gets their energy from being around others. It doesn't necessarily mean they have better social skills.

It all comes down to energy.

Extraverts like to give speeches. Run for office. Be the center of attention. And that's what gives them energy. As an introvert, these activities would exhaust you/ us. It doesn't mean you wouldn't be good at it, but it would be tiresome.

Don't try to be an extravert if you aren't one. As an introvert, you respond positively to a different set of stimuli than an extravert. So don't concern yourself with all these other people and what they're doing.

I can tell you that the times I've felt isolated and depressed, and tried to go the extravert route and socialize as a way to get more energized, it had the opposite effect, and I was more miserable. When I embraced the introvert side of myself and recharged my batteries that way, it always had a positive affect. Unlike my extravert friends, who like to go out and socialize when they're depressed as a therapy method, I always found that to be unfulfilling.


Instead I like to take an honest look in the mirror and self diagnose, start from scratch, and re-align my priorities.

You hit the nail on the head brother. That describes me to a T. I'm constantly brooding over my never ending labyrinth of thoughts and emotions.

I dont want to be an extrovert per se and you are correct. I can go i nto performance mode and do great. The problem is that it's very taxing to me mentally. When I first learned game...the pay off was there to behave like a dancing monkey. It was all new to me and picking up some road worn skank at the bar just from behaving like a total obnoxious douche bag was great fun.

Now I can't even be bothered to say hi to the same girls. Fuck I don't want to become like Scrooge but should I just embrace the fact that Im an uncaring asshole who is anti social?

[Sisyphus]

(04-20-2017 04:17 PM)Jack Ronin Wrote:  

The problem right now is I cannot alter my mental state from this grim aura into positive or upbeat.

Jack Ronin Wrote:

Unless I can make money off them, fuck them or they are offering something of more value I generally don't want to see or speak with people.

Statement #2 doesn't come off as very positive or upbeat. I'm no shrink, but it's obvious enough that holding onto that viewpoint will not help you achieve the result you're looking for.

[Jack Ronin]

(04-22-2017 01:50 PM)Sisyphus Wrote:  

(04-20-2017 04:17 PM)Jack Ronin Wrote:  

The problem right now is I cannot alter my mental state from this grim aura into positive or upbeat.

Jack Ronin Wrote:

Unless I can make money off them, fuck them or they are offering something of more value I generally don't want to see or speak with people.

Statement #2 doesn't come off as very positive or upbeat. I'm no shrink, but it's obvious enough that holding onto that viewpoint will not help you achieve the result you're looking for.

If I felt really good about taking someone's money or fucking a skank would the positivity vibe suddenly change shit for me?

I've been able to alter my mental state in the past through means like listening to music that puts me in certain moods.

Maybe I really dont want to be positive or upbeat. I think I just want to feel socially congruent. Whenever Im "nice" to people I fucking hate it. Does not feel genuine from me at all but I have to behave this way at my job for the most part.

[Vicious]

Interesting, my reply to this is going to be identical to another I just wrote : thread-62386...pid1555885

[Sisyphus]

In that case take some acting lessons, find a fictional character who appears "socially congruent" in the way that you desire to be and learn how to copy his mannerisms, and get some books on conversation.

I saw both of these at a major chain bookstore for example. Maybe some forum members can recommend some others.

https://www.amazon.com/How-Talk-Anyone-S...il+lowndes

https://www.amazon.com/Art-Conversation-...nversation


If you just want to change your external appearance instead of some kind of inner change then that's much easier. Your tone changed significantly between your first and last posts so I don't know what you really want. Maybe you don't either. In any case I'm going to bow out of this one. Good luck.

[Jack Ronin]

(04-22-2017 02:06 PM)Vicious Wrote:  

Interesting, my reply to this is going to be identical to another I just wrote : thread-62386...pid1555885

I work out. I'm in good shape. Used to compete professionally in a sport. I have travel plans coming up very soon.

Your advice is pretty generic "do stuff".

Guess I'm lookin for anything to help me become congruent socialy again. Even if that means I just accept the fact that I'm a prick and be ok with it.

[Jack Ronin]

(04-22-2017 02:52 PM)Sisyphus Wrote:  

In that case take some acting lessons, find a fictional character who appears "socially congruent" in the way that you desire to be and learn how to copy his mannerisms, and get some books on conversation.

I saw both of these at a major chain bookstore for example. Maybe some forum members can recommend some others.

https://www.amazon.com/How-Talk-Anyone-S...il+lowndes

https://www.amazon.com/Art-Conversation-...nversation


If you just want to change your external appearance instead of some kind of inner change then that's much easier. Your tone changed significantly between your first and last posts so I don't know what you really want. Maybe you don't either. In any case I'm going to bow out of this one. Good luck.

Your advice is good. The acting stuff Im sure I could benefit from and also Im gonna go get a book on conversation today. Thats the kinda shit I need.

Ok so maybe I was just venting and bein a crybaby in my first post. I was pissed off because I asked this girl out to dinner who I actually respect and know for a fact shes a decent girl. I never take women on dates and for the first time I figured hey this chick if anyone is worth taking to dinner.

Well she fuckin tells me that she knows ive treated women bad in the past and wants to stay friends. I was miffed to say the least but it got me doubting some of my past choices and such.

Then after a bunch of contemplation I decided that you know what? I aint gotta prove shit to no one. I don't have to apologize or make excuses for my past. In factn Im proud of the things Ive done because a lot if it took courage.

So basically Im accepting the fact that, yea im the fuckin "bad guy". Now go fuck yourself.

[Vicious]

(04-22-2017 02:57 PM)Jack Ronin Wrote:  

(04-22-2017 02:06 PM)Vicious Wrote:  

Interesting, my reply to this is going to be identical to another I just wrote : thread-62386...pid1555885

I work out. I'm in good shape. Used to compete professionally in a sport. I have travel plans coming up very soon.

Your advice is pretty generic "do stuff".

Guess I'm lookin for anything to help me become congruent socialy again. Even if that means I just accept the fact that I'm a prick and be ok with it.

It's only as generic as the info you've been giving out on yourself.

As you say your condition is clinical, and for those occasions I'd say you should be highly cautious of anything beyond general advice that is not from a licensed medical professional.

But no, I'm not telling you to "do stuff". I'm saying you need a foci in your life to be passionate about, something that can rub off positive energy ever so slightly to the rest of your day.