[killjoy]

I have an older friend who's in his fifties that complains about this. A little history on this guy (let's call him George). George recently got out of a hellish 20-year marriage and is at a stage in life where he just wants to bang young hotties. He exclusively dates the 18-28 set but finds it difficult to just get notches because, in his words, women that age don't really see him as a raw sexual beast, but rather a LTR provider type (so they make him wait). By all accounts, he's a pretty alpha guy: fit for his age, tall, handsome, charismatic and has money but says he can't compete with the fun, twenty-something Chad types when it comes to acquiring notches because women that age automatically see him as a provider.

do any older guys here have similar experiences?

[MY DETROIT PLAYAS]

Couple things come to mind

Most younger women are conditioned to view an older guy with his act together as a security blanket of sorts. Some willingly trade their young soft bodies for the promise of this security and comfort. Others see a 11th hour reprieve from having to compete with against hotter women, and a chance to "start over" without the examination of her slutty past. The provider alarm in a chick's head can be short-circuited, but in the case of your friend he may have to change some of the behaviors from his failed marriage.

Proper screening along with framing the interaction as care-free, non-judging and sexual up front, should help him save valuable time and resources. These young girls are looking for memorable experiences. The problem with a lot of older guys when dealing with the younger crowd is that they "lead with their wallet" so they get easily pegged as providers not lovers.

[rudebwoy]

MDP killed it.

Does your friend look his age, dress his age or talk his age?

Be interesting and not boring.

[RatInTheWoods]

Of course a 50yo will be seen as a provider/rich daddy to 18-28 year old group, why else would they bang him over 28yo surfer Chad?

But if you are 50 and banging hot fit 40 yos, they are mature, self sufficient and very very horny. They will want you for your cock, not your cash.

[Jack_Smith]

(04-11-2017 04:46 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

Of course a 50yo will be seen as a provider/rich daddy to 18-28 year old group, why else would they bang him over 28yo surfer Chad?

Cause we out lift, out think, out earn and out fuck pretty much any millennial beard boi.

Other than that, nothing...

[doc holliday]

Yeah a lot of younger dudes aren't really bringing much of anything to the table which is why there is opportunity with younger women. The biggest cockblock is the age difference stigma in Western society, not so much competition from younger guys. And so what if she thinks you have some money and is hoping to partake? If a younger chick is going to date an older guy, a large part of the reason will be because the guy can afford more than a guy her age could. Like MDP said, if you frame the money thing properly, are fun and interesting to be around, have style with an in shape body (critically important I think if you're looking for notches) and yes spend a bit of cash, then you can do well with younger chicks without being put into the provider mold (you want to be her "daddy" not her "dad"). Not saying it's easy as I think a lot of older guys try to hamster the problems away but it is doable.

Rat, one thing I'd say about older chicks is I think they too like guys with some money as much as younger chicks do. Nothing wrong with a 40yr old with a tight body though.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

Yes - that is natural for women to do it.

This is even exacerbated when you have cash.

Young guy with Ferrari = fun, don't expect too much in terms of long term
40+ guy with Ferrari = safety ticket that could be fun, but you have to break their mental patterns

Also many women think that men think like women. Since all women automatically assume that they want to settle down after a certain age, they believe that a 39yo man will want to settle down any day now.

But all of that can be somewhat dissipated - some older guys quickly break through those perceptions.

[Steve McQueen]

If I was wealthy and his age I would probably just go wife hunting in SEA, I've seen it work out for others and its a lot easier when the culture is so skewed against you as an older man in the West, barring meeting a girl with Daddy issues.

[Vaun]

I think the biggest reason is because so many older men throw money at women out of a lack of game. They have spent decades being married, and when they become single later in life they virtually have no skills to pick up women. They literally throw their retirement plans away to get some attention. With some game, a fun vibe and life, a decent updated wardrobe and a decent body, I think older guys have it way easier than younger dudes. The most successful, i.e. wealthiest older guys I know, are brutally frugal. I think having all of your ducks in a row as an older guy will allow you to not rely on money.

[Kid Twist]

(04-11-2017 05:57 PM)doc holliday Wrote:  

The biggest cockblock is the age difference stigma in Western society, not so much competition from younger guys.

Doc is right on with this post, I do think this is relatively more of a stumbling block with the more wholesome or sane girls who are younger than it is cock carousel types. Niche girls, friends of friends or family (or all of the above) have in fact had this cultural indoctrination that there is an "out of" range that is BS, as is evidenced by just a few decades ago it when it was happening to a pretty high frequency. Forget 50-60 years ago, or for the history of humanity, when it was commonplace.

[Kid Twist]

(04-11-2017 04:46 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

Of course a 50yo will be seen as a provider/rich daddy to 18-28 year old group, why else would they bang him over 28yo surfer Chad?

But if you are 50 and banging hot fit 40 yos, they are mature, self sufficient and very very horny. They will want you for your cock, not your cash.

Not saying they don't exist, but I'd love to see a few "hot fit 40 yos"

I'm not gonna lie, I laugh every time I read things like this, or similar to it.

[Ironbutt62]

Speaking AS a 54 yr old man...
yes, many girls are looking for arraignments, or providers. I simply don't ever give them the idea that there will be anything beyond a nice evening out, at the very most, a short term FWB situation.
I never game at home, so I don't worry about having girls too close proximity-wise, but I am in certain cities repeatedly and do want to be able to call a girl for a repeat lay if I'm too busy to hunt.
I'm just extremely clear about expectations--mine, and straightening out any of hers.
It can be done easily, as long as you are firm, understand your own high value and keep the upper hand.

[Jack_Smith]

(04-12-2017 12:15 PM)Kid Twist Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 05:57 PM)doc holliday Wrote:  

The biggest cockblock is the age difference stigma in Western society, not so much competition from younger guys.

Doc is right on with this post, I do think this is relatively more of a stumbling block with the more wholesome or sane girls who are younger than it is cock carousel types. Niche girls, friends of friends or family (or all of the above) have in fact had this cultural indoctrination that there is an "out of" range that is BS, as is evidenced by just a few decades ago it when it was happening to a pretty high frequency. Forget 50-60 years ago, or for the history of humanity, when it was commonplace.

...which means you have to level up your Plausible Deniability Game in a major way. Encourage that bitch to keep her bearded cuck borefriend (for display purposes), stay the fuck off of social media and away from her friends/fam. Fuck her like its the last day on earth. God knows he won't...

[Kid Twist]

^ He calls it, "The Jack Attack"

[RatInTheWoods]

And don't forget, trying to get a woman to turn off "provider tingles" is like asking a dude to date fat chicks.

Its hardwired in them to get moist for the cash....

[Giovonny]

Not necessarily.

Those that think, behave, and carry themselves like providers will be categorized as "providers".

Those that think, act, walk, talk, and carry themselves like "lovers" will not be categorized as "providers" because from the start -- from the first eye contact and first few minutes of conversation, they make it clear that they are not a "provider"... It might be subtle or it might obvious... The way "providers" dress is different than the way lovers dress.. The "vibe" is different, the girls can sense it.. Gold diggers are looking for a sucker.. Don't be a sucker.. BE REAL ABOUT WHAT YOU WANT AND WHAT YOU NEED!

At 41, I am keeping myself in great physical shape + dressing sharp but edgy and going after younger girls that A) are horny but dont wanna fuck someone from their social tribe B) are experimenting sexually C) like older guys D) have daddy issues E) dont have a better option F) wanna fuck someone from a different race/culture Etc.

I carry myself in such a way that it attracts those types.. They know I am not a "provider" and they don't even want a provider.. They are just horny little girls.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

It's bullshit that women don't view a hot 50yo as attractive and think only of his cash.

This is self-defeating thinking that is completely off. 20% of women now have daddy issues and there are a ton of women who like to be with an older guy.

If you go out thinking that every woman past 29 will never find you attractive then you have lost already. That is why successful men - so many of them - rely on escorts and sugardaddy paths to get laid. Also they cultivate a self-defeating John-mentality that is bullshit.





This guy was not only the fantasy of 35yo women. But he made it quite clear even in the scene in the movie, that he wanted to fuck her - right here, right now. His money and pedigree is just an added package.

By the way - the actor isn't overly successful and his real wife is even younger than Nicole Kidman:

[killjoy]

(04-12-2017 04:34 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

It's bullshit that women don't view a hot 50yo as attractive and think only of his cash.

This is self-defeating thinking that is completely off. 20% of women now have daddy issues and there are a ton of women who like to be with an older guy.

If you go out thinking that every woman past 29 will never find you attractive then you have lost already. That is why successful men - so many of them - rely on escorts and sugardaddy paths to get laid. Also they cultivate a self-defeating John-mentality that is bullshit.





This guy was not only the fantasy of 35yo women. But he made it quite clear even in the scene in the movie, that he wanted to fuck her - right here, right now. His money and pedigree is just an added package.

By the way - the actor isn't overly successful and his real wife is even younger than Nicole Kidman:

I understand the logic here but I disagree with some of it. I'm sure there are plenty of hot 20-year olds that find George Clooney sexy but that's mostly because he's a rich & famous hollywood actor. You can't compare the average 50-something guy with a hollywood actor, even a mid-tier hollywood actor like the guy you posted.

All I'm saying is it's simply harder for the average 50-something guy (even if he's in-shape & alpha) to compete with 28-year old surfer Chad in terms of raw sexual appeal. Provider game seems almost necessary in gaming young chicks (of course there are always exceptions but they are exceptions). The cards are stacked against you like my friend George, who's probably in the top 20% of 50-somethings who isn't famous or a multi-millionaire

[Simeon_Strangelight]

Top 20% of 50yo is "not too fat".

In shape is probably 2% in the West at that age.

Alpha, Game and in shape - less than 1%.

[account844]

(04-12-2017 12:16 PM)Kid Twist Wrote:  

Not saying they don't exist, but I'd love to see a few "hot fit 40 yos"

I'm not gonna lie, I laugh every time I read things like this, or similar to it.

They do exist if you put yourself out there for that. My first experience was with one 42 when I was 21 (I'm mid thirties now), and her legs and cunt were no different to any younger ones.

I've had several experiences to that since then minus such that very big age gap, and by my experience, the older they are, the better the fuck you get - although you can't generalize with certainty in such a way.

At the end of the day it does depend on who you got - everyone is different! If you get a full on slut then good for you, but if not, move on to the next one. You can get the best experience from both sides - 10 years younger, or 10 year older.

[Jack_Smith]

Sadly, you sound like one of those pathetic salesmen who believes that the only way he can complete is on price.

(04-12-2017 04:51 PM)killjoy Wrote:  

All I'm saying is it's simply harder for the average 50-something guy (even if he's in-shape & alpha)

With all due respect, this is nonsensical. The "average 50-someting guy" is neither in-shape nor alpha, and is consequently largely UNFUCKABLE. He was cucked by his Ex, to whom he now writes a monthly check amounting to 30% of his after-tax earnings, is (at least somewhat) bitter about his divorce, and carries 28%+ body fat.

(04-12-2017 04:51 PM)killjoy Wrote:  

it's simply harder for the 50-something guy (even if he's in-shape & alpha) to compete with 28-year old surfer Chad in terms of raw sexual appeal.

BULLSHIT. 20-30% of the time an older man will get the pull OVER your beloved Chad. This is for the simple reason that many twenty something women (20-30%) simply PREFER an older man. Money notwithstanding. Deal with it.

I out lift, out mission, out live, out think, out experience, and out fuck your mythical, bitch ass unicorn "Chad" on the regular. For an older man, that's the price of access to the young pussy market.

And yes, I out earn that motherfucker, too. By a huge multiple. Unapologetically. Know what I do with that extra cash? NOT BUY BITCHES DINNER. That's how your Boy George stays out of the provider box, as many others have already explained to you, even though he can eat wherever and whenever he wants.

(04-12-2017 04:51 PM)killjoy Wrote:  

The cards are stacked against you...

This is very true, because it's extremely difficult for an American man to break 50 without becoming a fat, bitter, drunken workaholic fuck.

(04-12-2017 04:51 PM)killjoy Wrote:  

my friend George, who's probably in the top 20% of 50-somethings ....

Again, as already explained to you, top 20% means dick. 1%ers get the young pussy. That means George needs to work himself into the Top 1% of 50 yo men in the marketplace. That's simple.

George's Playbook

1) Stop Listening to You and Your Negative & Misinformed Advice
2) Priorities - Mission, Fam, Career, etc. FIRST
3) Mind Right - Pos Attitude (Meditate)
4) Get Strong (Squat 1.6X & Bench 1.2X Body Weight)
5) Get Lean (Body Fat < 14%)
6) Lose the Dad Fashion Vibe
7) Learn BASIC Game / Tinder Game
8) Logisitics/Escalation - Go for D1 Bang (D2 Latest)
9) DON'T BUY FUCKING DINNER (pre-bang)

[Vaun]

(04-12-2017 05:58 PM)Jack_Smith Wrote:  

I out lift, out mission, out live, out think, out experience, and out fuck your mythical, bitch ass unicorn "Chad" on the regular. For an older man, that's the price of access to the young pussy market.

And yes, I out earn that motherfucker, too. By a huge multiple. Unapologetically.

Some back up for you Jack_Smith, but you probably dont need it haha

[killjoy]

(04-12-2017 05:58 PM)Jack_Smith Wrote:  

Sadly, you sound like one of those pathetic salesmen who believes that the only way he can complete is on price.

(04-12-2017 04:51 PM)killjoy Wrote:  

All I'm saying is it's simply harder for the average 50-something guy (even if he's in-shape & alpha)

With all due respect, this is nonsensical. The "average 50-someting guy" is neither in-shape nor alpha, and is consequently largely UNFUCKABLE. He was cucked by his Ex, to whom he now writes a monthly check amounting to 30% of his after-tax earnings, is (at least somewhat) bitter about his divorce, and carries 28%+ body fat.

(04-12-2017 04:51 PM)killjoy Wrote:  

it's simply harder for the 50-something guy (even if he's in-shape & alpha) to compete with 28-year old surfer Chad in terms of raw sexual appeal.

BULLSHIT. 20-30% of the time an older man will get the pull OVER your beloved Chad. This is for the simple reason that many twenty something women (20-30%) simply PREFER an older man. Money notwithstanding. Deal with it.

I out lift, out mission, out live, out think, out experience, and out fuck your mythical, bitch ass unicorn "Chad" on the regular. For an older man, that's the price of access to the young pussy market.

And yes, I out earn that motherfucker, too. By a huge multiple. Unapologetically. Know what I do with that extra cash? NOT BUY BITCHES DINNER. That's how your Boy George stays out of the provider box, as many others have already explained to you, even though he can eat wherever and whenever he wants.

(04-12-2017 04:51 PM)killjoy Wrote:  

The cards are stacked against you...

This is very true, because it's extremely difficult for an American man to break 50 without becoming a fat, bitter, drunken workaholic fuck.

(04-12-2017 04:51 PM)killjoy Wrote:  

my friend George, who's probably in the top 20% of 50-somethings ....

Again, as already explained to you, top 20% means dick. 1%ers get the young pussy. That means George needs to work himself into the Top 1% of 50 yo men in the marketplace. That's simple.

George's Playbook

1) Stop Listening to You and Your Negative & Misinformed Advice
2) Priorities - Mission, Fam, Career, etc. FIRST
3) Mind Right - Pos Attitude (Meditate)
4) Get Strong (Squat 1.6X & Bench 1.2X Body Weight)
5) Get Lean (Body Fat < 14%)
6) Lose the Dad Fashion Vibe
7) Learn BASIC Game / Tinder Game
8) Logisitics/Escalation - Go for D1 Bang (D2 Latest)
9) DON'T BUY FUCKING DINNER (pre-bang)

by average, I really meant a non-famous, non-multimillionaire guy. Some guys like to post pics of celebrities like George Clooney to prove young women think older guys are sexy, which I think is silly.

I have a few questions for you though:

1) As an older guy how do you dress? suits? blazers? affliction t-shirts?

2) You don't pay for dinner? So I'm guessing you split the bill? I'm curious how young hotties even react to that.

[Jack_Smith]

(04-12-2017 06:31 PM)Vaun Wrote:  

Some back up for you Jack_Smith, but you probably dont need it haha

"Youth can suck my dick."

Fuckn Genius!

[Jack_Smith]

(04-12-2017 06:38 PM)killjoy Wrote:  

by average, I really meant a non-famous, non-multimillionaire guy. Some guys like to post pics of celebrities like George Clooney to prove young women think older guys are sexy, which I think is silly.

Yep. I agree. Famous, powerful, and/or rich men are not a useful benchmark for most of us. That said, many of those guys have zero game (especially the rich workaholic business guys) and the "average" 25 yo HB7/8 has no prayer of getting with some rock star.

(04-12-2017 06:38 PM)killjoy Wrote:  

1) As an older guy how do you dress? suits? blazers? affliction t-shirts?

I think, this is going to be a little different for every man, depending on his career, lifestyle, target audience, and personal style. My vibe is Single Business Dad. I have had a long and modestly successful business and entrepreneurial career, run my own (small) business, and am raising my kids solo. I live in a top 10 MSA where business downtown is generally conducted suit and tie and my target demo is "smart girls" (grad students, career girls, entrepreneuristas), 24-28. I run several very simple looks, depending on season & context, from most to least formal, as follows.

*Suit & Tie
*Suit & Open Collar Dress Shirt
*Khakis; Open Collar Dress Shirt; Blazer
*Jeans; Open Collar Dress Shirt - Tail Out; Blazer
*Jeans; Open Collar Dress Shirt - Tail Out
*Jeans; V-Neck T-Shirt
*Shorts; Polo Shirt
*Shorts; V-Neck T-Shirt

IMHO details, fit, and quality matter most. For me that means RTW Italian suits/sport coats/slacks (e.g. Brioni; Zegna), fitted spread collar 100s dress shirts (either custom made in HK @ ~$90, or RTW and tailored by my guy), and quality mid-range shoes (e.g. Allen Edmonds, To Boot NY). I never buy retail, so I can get more for my buck. I also mostly go cheap on shorts, vnecks, polos (all H&M, which are super fitted and super cheap) and jeans (gap; shit, I know).

For anything less formal than a suit, for a social occasion, I will almost never wear socks and will rock a stitched driving shoe or a fashion forward loafer. I wear a quality watch, but not big or ostentatious. (Your jeweler would recognize the quality; most millenials would not.) No other jewelry. No ink. No cologne. No undershirt with an open collar shirt. Ever. For dates, I open the second shirt button, and almost never wear socks.

The most important thing is fitness. In a $25 H&M shorts/vneck outfit at 13% BF, I might get pulled by a 25 yo. In a $2,000 Armani suit at 20% BF, I would be invisible to all but the fat chicks.

(04-12-2017 06:38 PM)killjoy Wrote:  

2) You don't pay for dinner? So I'm guessing you split the bill? I'm curious how young hotties even react to that.

Just to be clear, I am not saying never pay for a date or dinner. I am saying FUCK FIRST. I learned this here and the hard way. Once you have fucked a couple times and have put the girl in your rotation, feed her all you want.

Logistically, I go for a D1 or D2 lay. D1 is drinks out at boutique hotel lounge; pull to room for champagne. Or bounce to bar #2, and then pull to room for champagne. I don't mind picking up the (very small) tab for this, but, as advised by many others here, will let the check sit on the table so I can see how she rolls. (My #1 picked up the bill for drinks the first time out, and often thereafter.) D2, when needed, is cooking together. I handle menu and food, she brings wine/desert, we cook together.

My philosophy, learned here, is that when a woman rolls with me, she rolls the way I roll. For most millenial girls, this will mean a significant lifestyle upgrade. That's fine, but it is essential to ensure that you have a sex-centric relationship. That means we are getting together to indulge our lust for each other. That may entail a suite at the Ritz Carlton, a steak dinner, or even a weekend away - if that's what I want to do - but that's all secondary to the fucking. It's also important for her to continue to invest, in a manner consistent with her ability, along the way. This could be picking up the drinks tab, cooking for you, cleaning your apartment, or showing up at your office in a french maid's outfit, just like you requested.

This all boils down to marketing and value prop. My marketing premise is that I am a gift to that pussy. My value prop is that I am going to make that pussy sing. Indirectly and directly it is important to consistently send the message that you are not about providing day to day emotional support and/or a meal ticket, you are there to provide quality dick, and she needs to work for that dick.