Quote: (06-02-2018 12:43 PM)debeguiled Wrote:
If Jay Dyer had faith, he wouldn't say that Peterson's philosophy leads inexorably to incoherent solipsism, because he would believe that God is in control and that all things are working towards the good.
The Catholic Viewpoint:
No. This is a Fallen World. Corruption is the result of the Sin of the Fall, resulting in original sin in humans, and a disordered natural world. God can't turn Falsehood into Truth - since God is Goodness in himself, and the Absolute Truth, and, as such,
has no need for deception, which is the Devil's Way.
Scripture says any trace of corruption taints a good act - you can't willfully Sin for good purposes. God can't stop the Corruption that our sins - chosen of Free Will - creates upon his creation (ourselves and the world). He can, however, use the - usually painful - results of these disorders as opportunities for our own personal sanctification. Whilst he can
compel a Sinner towards Truth, they have to make the choice to repent and do penance to make restitution for the balance owed by their sin of their own Free Will.
In the early days of coming to God, you enter what is known as the Purgative State. You will be freely-graced with what is known as Consolation - the sense of being compelled or 'pushed', given the knowledge you seek, been given clear direction. It's a beautiful and humbling experience, but it doesn't lead to true holiness, only the sense of feeling holy.
You need to steel yourself for what happens next, because you are then put under, well, tentation. And the older versions of the Lord's Prayer takes on a much deeper meaning, for it means not only the temptations of sin, but also the state of being tested via painful trial.
This is the second stage of The Purgative State. You will Fall, and hard, and not understand why, when you thought were doing everything right. No, you were doing everything right by your disordered will's view of God's will, not His actual will.
Consolation is suddenly withdrawn, almost cruelly, because God wants you to love him perfectly, not just because he graces you. He wants to know you don't love his graces more.
I'm going through this now: it's brutal. You see yourself as God sees you, and you truly understand that it's all or nothing, and every little thing matters. It's the dawning horror of truly-realising you would rather die than to keep offending God.
This is where people usually turn their back on God, because they're not prepared to suffer the - incredibly painful - burning away of their sinful nature to purify themselves, or they despise God and return to their own lives.
I didn't know any of this. I prayed with true repentance for guidance to understand how I had failed, and then, within a few hours, multiple casual references all lead to this knowledge, (the true revelation of an oft-repeated name on a regular podcast, a footnote in that day's bible reading, a book I was looking at), allowing me to research the state, and the - very hard - knowledge of what to do next has snowballed.
Unsurprisingly, my sister is on the edge of it too, so the next morning, she said "I really make excuses to myself for not doing the painful work, don't I?" We've both come to instinctively-understand the Generational Curse upon our family over the last 18 months, and have been quietly working on repairing in. We've realised we've both dance around the core issue, and now have to somehow repair a vicious family wound that dates back thirty-five years.
We talked about how much this is going to hurt, to truly forgive without using the hurt to wound in return, then laughed how insignificant it really is compared to the sufferings of Jesus and Our Lady during the Passion.
We understand we are giving back to God what is rightfully-owed Him, and this is how we can be
purified.
As such, it's not a matter of all things working naturally towards the good or him using Evil for Good purposes. It's him offering us Grace and Strength to bear the painful emotional sacrifice of giving to him what is rightfully-owed him against the selfish and spiteful drives of our Free Will to rebel against this. We can't make a Evil Act Holy, since by it's very nature it's an Evil Act, (Anti-Natural Law, and so,
disordered). However, we can avoid or repair the lasting effect our Free Will response to an Evil Act can inflict upon our Immortal Souls.
Which leads to your next point:
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If you are going to take a Christian point of view, which critics like Dyer and Vox Day claim to have, first of all, you are not supposed to judge non-Christians by Christian standards, and second of all, you have clear directives in the Bible not to be a mocker, and to turn the other cheek, and yet guys like Day and Dyer sound sometimes like schoolyard bullies making fun of an underclassman.
How can two people who don't even live up to their own philosophy be taken seriously when they accuse someone else of being in error or not living up to his?
The hypocrisy is amazing.
Again, no.
'Judge not, that you not be judged' makes sense in greater context, not isolated for one's convenience to win the current argument, the way the Left do. It means, under the Natural Law, you have no Legal Right to
Finally-Condemn someone, particularly as the New Covenant would be doing away with traditions like stoning. Final Condemnation is God's decision alone. This means you have to forgive someone who is seeking penitence under the Law, with the genuine openness of your heart, usually by encouraging introspection and self-examination so that you don't accuse others of the sins you have committed.
However:
It does not mean you have to tolerate sinners, or encourage heretics. You are told to flee from bad company, and avoid the near occasion of sin. This implies the necessity of making value judgements between what conforms to the Natural Law, and what doesn't.
In Roman Catholicism, you are tasked with the Seven Corporal and Seven Spiritual Works of Mercy. Two of the latter are to
Admonish the Sinner, and to
Instruct the Ignorant.
Look:
You are within your rights to admonish sinners if you understand that you too are a sinner, and the best way to do this is to see their sin reflected in yourself, so that you can then compassionately and effectively-help them to stop. Jesus even tells us to do so:
"Look well to yourselves. If thy brother sin against him, rebuke him: and if he do penance, forgive him."
St Paul writing to Timothy:
"Preach the word, urge in season, out of season, reprove, beseech, rebuke in all patience and doctrine."
Some are better at this than others, but, understand,
they are in their legal right to call out Peterson.
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They are pretending, for the sake of their own proud feels, not to be sinners themselves and going hog wild.
God can and does work through whoever he wills, and he is not taking directives from Dyer or Day, no matter how righteous they feel themselves to be.
So, you're saying God
obviously-isn't influencing them, but he
is influencing Peterson? How can you discern the deep truth of a penitent heart, and what goes on in the confessional when one party clearly says he doesn't believe in a Literal God, and the other two do? I've heard Vox Day call himself a Sinner in the past. My Sister and I were both calling ourselves Sinners yesterday in conversation, but the most important part of this is doing such before God:
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And to some who trusted in themselves as just, and despised others, he spoke also this parable: Two men went up into the temple to pray: the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee standing, prayed thus with himself: O God, I give thee thanks that I am not as the rest of men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, as also is this publican. I fast twice in a week: I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not so much as lift up his eyes towards heaven; but struck his breast, saying: O god, be merciful to me a sinner. I say to you, this man went down into his house justified rather that the other: because every one that exalteth himself, shall be humbled: and he that humbleth himself, shall be exalted.
It's not about
your perception of Vox or Jay's Christianity: it's how they privately-humble themselves before God, whom them makes the decision on whom is righteous or not. With my Sister and I, I initially said "I can forgive this old injury if I can see genuine repentance on his face and he asks for forgiveness." That was my will talking. With further study and research today, no, I was wrong. I need to simply say, "I can truly forgive this old injury." God offers him final judgment, as is his Right. My Sister and I have fulfill
our duty to the Law by forgiving him, and that is all we need to concern ourselves with.
This doesn't mean to take on board every opinion. As my understanding deepens, I simply see who spouts open heresy and who doesn't, and who has awareness of their own sinful nature. I often wound people I care about through carelessness, or the Disorders of my own will. I have to face that fact that I have a couple of thousand injured parties under my belt due to my lustful passions.
Remember, I said Desolation involves the true understanding of your severe culpability under the Law.
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I would say the two of them are woefully bereft of spiritual discernment, and are foundering on the sharp rocks of coldly literal, overly analytical, and ultimately cold hearted rationalism.
...which is what men are tasked to be, due to the Natural Law. Men are expected to respond with rationality in any situation because they are tasked to serve the truth, frequently in life and death situations where feelings
can't be allowed to matter. Women are always cursed to respond emotionally, because of their uncontrollable desire to rebel against the Natural Law. This is why women who try to take on the male role end up miserable and half-insane. This is also why Feminine Women are drawn to rational, controlling men, who balance out their worst instincts, which makes them want to be submissive to them.
It's why Men and Women need each other to be complete.
'Cold hearted' is a subjective emotional value judgement favoured by the female point of view, because women don't tend to understand the deeper sacrifices men make for their family.
You're criticizing them for being masculine. You're doing it in an emotional manner. I've paid attention to how easily-dismissed valid disagreements are on here by particular men, and how often this is sold as
emotional defect rather than attacking the truth of the argument, where you can be mocked and labelled a 'conspiracy theorist' for, say, accurately-repeating what the Jewish Media writing for a Jewish Audience says. This is good, it means I'm serving the Truth - we're promised ridicule for doing so - and they're serving Deception, which means I can sense who leads disordered lives. Hell, I've even noticed who jumped on the concept of Gamma as a weapon to wield in any argument.
Hence, I know what to expect from, say, Trump, who has publicly-stated he doesn't believe in asking God for forgiveness. Then he doesn't serve the Truth, and his backers and his circle are evidence of that. Disorder will follow.
Meanwhile, Peterson's fanboys seem to keep responding to even the mildest criticism of the man in any forum with pompous, emotional rants, which is why I've long thought, whatever he
claims to be teaching them about being a man, obviously doesn't work. He seems, like 'Rick and Morty', to be Gamma Bait. They respond in the Feminine manner.
What's funnier, is that one of his rules is this:
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Assume the person you are listening to might know something you don’t.
His own followers are the evidence that his influence hasn't worked.
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Jordan Peterson is a gift to all men everywhere. He is teaching people to take responsibility for themselves and for their societies instead of being demoralized resentful snowflakes, and young men are flocking to him and changing their lives jsut by changing their mindsets.
No, this sounds like hyped-up rhetoric from a Press Release distributed to everyone in the media who is tasked to write about him. If you write "Album of the year!" enough on a press release, you'd be surprised how often they'll repeat it, unchecked.
I've yet to see any evidence of this, particularly as Peterson hasn't been around long enough to accurately-judge the long-term effectiveness of his Self-Help Book and speaking tours. When I do see his fans, I inwardly-cringe. They're not men, at least, what I used to know as men before Millennials flipped us into the Berensturn universe.
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And all people want to talk about are the Jews, race *realism,* and all about how he is secretly a puppet of the global masters.
Except Vox Day didn't. He went - quite clearly and methodically, if you have ears to hear - through Peterson's arguments and challenged them intellectually, particularly his heretical speech. Vox is within the Law to smack him down: Peterson wasn't interested in showing any Penitence towards demonising someone like Adam Piggott - who has always struck me as
truthful - so, he can suffer the rebuke his actions have
earned. That video of him weaseling his way around the Faith Goldy situation, breaking another one of his purported rules, clearly shows a servant of Deception.
The Cult building around this man - and, at first I thought it was simple Hype, but it's increasingly-becoming a Cult - has made me upgrade him from my initial summation of him -
deeply-uninteresting - to, well,
dangerous. I thought he'd blow over, but even the toxic Left Wing media here are celebrating him, under the tried-and-tested
Anti-Authoritarian Cool method: which is, historically, how power sells the perception of threats to their power whilst being no genuine threat at all.
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This is all fine for atheists, but if you have a spiritual bone in your body, you have to know that the global elites aren't in power, they are only in power for now.
No. Christians are promised persecution, mockery, and suffering in their mortal lives, since Satan controls the world, which Christ says again and again in the Bible. Christ doesn't come back the second time to save us - the 1000 years Reign of Peace is another weird - as always,
American - Heresy - he comes back to end the old earth and bring about the new, with results in a purification of the entire world and everything on it with fire. The small mercy is those who have already purified themselves under the natural law - paying what is rightfully-owed to God for their transgressions - don't feel pain. The rest burn with the full pain of their sins. But all passes away, to then be judged.
This is all Catholic Doctrine.
My sister and I were talking about this the other night. We sense to purify ourselves
now is God's Will, and the final purification fire came up in discussion. To no surprise to me, it was mentioned in yetserday's Missal reading:
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But the day of the Lord shall come as a thief, in which the heavens shall pass away with great violence, and the elements shall be melted with heat, and the earth and the works which are in it, shall be burnt up. Seeing then that all these things are to be dissolved, what manner of people ought you to be in holy conversation and godliness? Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of the Lord, by which the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with the burning heat? But we look for new heavens and a new earth according to his promises, in which justice dwelleth. Wherefore, dearly beloved, waiting for these things, be diligent that you may be found before him unspotted and blameless in peace.
I was about to send it to her, when she texted me to say that something else we'd discussed was in a short podcast she listened to this morning and it 'seemed important'.
Seek the truth and you shall find it, to the extent
you can't avoid finding it.
However, Peterson isn't it.
He's the product of a Corrupt Institution that serves Deception, sold by a Corrupt Media Complex that serves Deception. His intentions, therefore - no matter how well-intentioned he mistakenly-believes them to be - can only result in corruption.
Whilst I'd expect the same of Vox Day, I'm often surprised at his blunt revelation of Uncomfortable Truth. Somehow,
he sees. Note, however,
I don't serve Vox, and don't take everything he says as Gospel. He's simply
less false than Peterson.
Interestingly, the older Catholic books I'm reading through are filled with Uncomfortable Truths, ones that are sometimes painful to accept.
Catholics are tasked to speak up. Cowardice is NOT a virtue, though it can be mistaken for one. That reminds me, today's first Missal reading was St Paul to Timothy:
God has not given us the Spirit of Fear.
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