[scotian]

When Hungary entered the EU in 2008 or 09, ten of thousands of Gypsies flooded into Canada and quickly went on welfare in Toronto and roamed around the country scamming people as they are prone to do. Canada then wisely implemented a visa ban on Hungarians (and Mexicans!). The EU has been bitching since and threatening visa restrictions for Canadian tourists but it still hasn't happened. If the Euro weenies don't have the balls to lay the smack down on us Canucks, I think Yanks are safe!

[godzilla]

^I think Canada is complying now by the end of year, which is why they weren't included, prepare for gypsys again

[Rossi]

(03-03-2017 09:51 AM)mpr Wrote:  

A stupid move on the Europe's part. They're only screwing themselves so if they want to go forward with this let them. Poland, Croatia, Bulgaria, and Romania never should have been admitted into the EU which was supposed to be a Western European political and Economic entity. They've always been in Russia's sphere of influence. Their customs, cultures, and economies reflect that.

My hypothesis is that EU businessmen wanted a source of cheap labor, and policy wonks wanted a roadblock in case Russia ever tried to invade. The average guy just trying to make a living is the one getting screwed by the elites, as always. At least the EU didn't go full retard and include Turkey as many were pushing for. If that would have happened Europe as we know it wouldn't exist right now.

I'm getting blood right EU citizenship so it won't effect me either way. I'll be sure to write my European representatives to let them know how I feel about the matter once I get my citizenship though.

So, Poland, Croatia, Bulgaria, and Romania should have never been admitted into the EU because they have Russian influence?

What about Slovakia, Czech Republic, Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia? They have more Russian influence and they got into EU. Why wouldn't Poland, Croatia, Bulgaria and Romania get in?

It has nothing to do with Russian influence.

Let's say, EU force Americans to have a visa before they can come in, why would EU screw themselves? (Even though, I don't think that would happen.)

Nothing would happen. USA would impose visa on Europeans too and Europe impose visa on Americans.

Brazil, China and Russia request visa from USA, I don't see getting them screwed.

[mpr]

(03-03-2017 06:04 PM)Rossi Wrote:  

(03-03-2017 09:51 AM)mpr Wrote:  

A stupid move on the Europe's part. They're only screwing themselves so if they want to go forward with this let them. Poland, Croatia, Bulgaria, and Romania never should have been admitted into the EU which was supposed to be a Western European political and Economic entity. They've always been in Russia's sphere of influence. Their customs, cultures, and economies reflect that.

My hypothesis is that EU businessmen wanted a source of cheap labor, and policy wonks wanted a roadblock in case Russia ever tried to invade. The average guy just trying to make a living is the one getting screwed by the elites, as always. At least the EU didn't go full retard and include Turkey as many were pushing for. If that would have happened Europe as we know it wouldn't exist right now.

I'm getting blood right EU citizenship so it won't effect me either way. I'll be sure to write my European representatives to let them know how I feel about the matter once I get my citizenship though.

So, Poland, Croatia, Bulgaria, and Romania should have never been admitted into the EU because they have Russian influence?

What about Slovakia, Czech Republic, Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia? They have more Russian influence and they got into EU. Why wouldn't Poland, Croatia, Bulgaria and Romania get in?

It has nothing to do with Russian influence.

Let's say, EU force Americans to have a visa before they can come in, why would EU screw themselves? (Even though, I don't think that would happen.)

Nothing would happen. USA would impose visa on Europeans too and Europe impose visa on Americans.

Brazil, China and Russia request visa from USA, I don't see getting them screwed.

They shouldn't have gotten in either! I think it's insane that Latvia is part of the EU! Brazil, China, and Russia receive a fraction of the number of American tourists that the EU does. I don't think that requiring visas from American tourists will be a fatal hit or anything. But don't kid yourself. It will have a sizable economic impact.

[Rossi]

(03-03-2017 07:22 PM)mpr Wrote:  

They shouldn't have gotten in either! I think it's insane that Latvia is part of the EU! Brazil, China, and Russia receive a fraction of the number of American tourists that the EU does. I don't think that requiring visas from American tourists will be a fatal hit or anything. But don't kid yourself. It will have a sizable economic impact.

So, basically you're saying half of the EU members shouldn't have got in? Based on what though? Because they have Russian influence? Who cares about if Russia ruled Baltic states or Poland or Romania 40 years ago?

If EU require visa from Americans, nothing will happen to EU or US for that matter. Both of EU and US will lose tourists in overall, that's about it but it's not end of the world.

More than half of the American population don't even have passport anyway. It's not like 200 million Americans are traveling to Europe and Europe are making money just off of American tourism. This is not Cancun.

USA would get affected from lack of tourism from EU as much as EU would get affected from Americans.

But I don't think EU would impose visa against Americans anyway, because if they do, US would also do the same and both of them would lose money in the end.

[Innuendo]

(03-03-2017 07:22 PM)mpr Wrote:  

They shouldn't have gotten in either! I think it's insane that Latvia is part of the EU! Brazil, China, and Russia receive a fraction of the number of American tourists that the EU does. I don't think that requiring visas from American tourists will be a fatal hit or anything. But don't kid yourself. It will have a sizable economic impact.

The vast majority of tourists in Europe are from other European countries. US tourists are less than 5% of international tourists.

[BrewDog]

(03-03-2017 09:08 PM)Rossi Wrote:  

More than half of the American population don't even have passport anyway. It's not like 200 million Americans are traveling to Europe and Europe are making money just off of American tourism. This is not Cancun.

Godzilla posted links above containing the stats. The US makes up a large number of visitors to the EU. A much larger percentage than some of the countries neighboring the other EU nations. You're right. It's not a big deal. Greece doesn't need money these days, right?

I also hope Trump makes good on his promise to pull out of NATO. It's about time Europe pays its own way instead of Americans footing the bill to protect Europe while they indulge in socialism with the money they don't have to spend on a military.

Yes, Europe doesn't need America. And America certainly doesn't need Europe. If there's such a hatred for anything and everything American, I'll be content to go elsewhere to party.

[godzilla]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Italy

4 million american tourists in Italy is a big deal. Tourists from Japan, China, America, etc are spending way more money in Europe then in other countries.

Lets say the average tourist spends $100, (we both know its much more then that) thats $400 million dollars, that is a lot of money

The Us is not threatening to impose sanctions on Europe. I would add though, despite having restrictions on entering the country, the US still leads the world in tourism by dollars spend and 2nd in total visitors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_rankings

[BrewDog]

Did these Americans need French visas?

[Nowak]

(03-03-2017 09:35 AM)scrambled Wrote:  

Stupidity:

> The EU requires (non EU of course) Eastern Europeans to get visas. They have dangled Schengen Visa-Free zone to Ukraine for years and continue to diddle-daddle.

> There can never be too many tourists though, since it represents more money for them; it might hurt the destination (Venice) but the governments want the revenue badly.

> Why should Poles & Romanians "have the same rights"? Sounds like SWJ in the Manosphere; nobody is entitled to anything in life, much less entrance without a visa, or entrance at all. Short story is those countries' citizens are more likely to overstay their visa, (and have less money to spend as a tourist), since their economies are worse than Germany or Austria. Visa-waiver policy, both of the EU and US, has always reflected that.

This is impotent suppressed rage against the US; the good countries for us are mostly outside the EU anyway.

Total BS

Why would members from the post 04 EU expansion want to overstay visas and cause problems in the US or Canada?, for social tourism there is Germany or Ireland. Poles and Romanians with money will travel and wont cause problems.

Nothing SJWy about not wanting people to step all over you. Lolbertarians and muh freedom types don't seem to understand anything that happens here across the pond. I'm noticing this trend more and more.

You're are also wrong about Venice, do any basic google search on this,Venice is having huge problems with tourism and the locals are being driven out by extremely high prices

Iraq war and Bama's intervention was majorly responsible for the migrant influx ,Europe is wrong to not have a militarized border control,but an unstable middle east is always bad regardless,that's America's doing.


Visa expansion to Ukraine has to do with overstaying ,and nations like Poland ,Germany ,while publicly supporting such moves,now that Europeans don't want these potential issues of social tourism

[Nowak]

(03-04-2017 06:44 AM)Nowak Wrote:  

(03-03-2017 09:35 AM)scrambled Wrote:  

Stupidity:

> The EU requires (non EU of course) Eastern Europeans to get visas. They have dangled Schengen Visa-Free zone to Ukraine for years and continue to diddle-daddle.

> There can never be too many tourists though, since it represents more money for them; it might hurt the destination (Venice) but the governments want the revenue badly.

> Why should Poles & Romanians "have the same rights"? Sounds like SWJ in the Manosphere; nobody is entitled to anything in life, much less entrance without a visa, or entrance at all. Short story is those countries' citizens are more likely to overstay their visa, (and have less money to spend as a tourist), since their economies are worse than Germany or Austria. Visa-waiver policy, both of the EU and US, has always reflected that.

This is impotent suppressed rage against the US; the good countries for us are mostly outside the EU anyway.

Total BS

Why would members from the post 04 EU expansion want to overstay visas and cause problems in the US or Canada?, for social tourism there is Germany or Ireland. Poles and Romanians with money will travel and wont cause problems.

Nothing SJWy about not wanting people to step all over you. Lolbertarians and muh freedom types don't seem to understand anything that happens here across the pond. I'm noticing this trend more and more.

You're are also wrong about Venice, do any basic google search on this,Venice is having huge problems with tourism and the locals are being driven out by extremely high prices

Iraq war and Bama's intervention was majorly responsible for the migrant influx ,Europe is wrong to not have a militarized border control,but an unstable middle east is always bad regardless,that's America's doing.


Visa expansion to Ukraine has to do with overstaying ,and nations like Poland ,Germany ,while publicly supporting such moves,now that Europeans don't want these potential issues of social tourism

Forgot to mention,the best countries for us are under EU influence to some degree, Ukraine and candidate nations like Serbia and BiH

Trust me,if the EUSSR collapses into a Europe of nations or some other alternative, which I hope it does,Anti Merkan thought will only increase. NATO benefits the US more than anyone else. Europeans need to become self reliant and America needs to end it's shitlib paternalism telling every and any nation what to do. Whether it be bombing FYS or fucking up the middle east/hence the world




The point is that any limits on tourism will be good for us in the end,even if it means extra hoops that serve as a weeding out process. Last night went out with some people here in Beograd and it was mentioned the amount of tourists over just the last year has massively increased. Serbia isn't in the EU but no nation deserves to deal with massive anti social behavior, airbnb related gentrification and pissants who make the game harder.

[Rossi]

(03-04-2017 05:05 AM)godzilla Wrote:  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Italy

4 million american tourists in Italy is a big deal. Tourists from Japan, China, America, etc are spending way more money in Europe then in other countries.

Lets say the average tourist spends $100, (we both know its much more then that) thats $400 million dollars, that is a lot of money

The Us is not threatening to impose sanctions on Europe. I would add though, despite having restrictions on entering the country, the US still leads the world in tourism by dollars spend and 2nd in total visitors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_rankings

You know, my uncle owns a hotel in Rome. I know tourism pretty well since my brother also works there for past 18 years.

We've had 56 million tourists in 2016. We're in Top 5 country in the world that have most tourists.

Let's say, EU impose visa on USA. There are roughly 4 million Americans coming to Italy per year, it won't go to 0. Maybe %50 of them won't come, so we're gonna lose 2 million Americans.

Roughly speaking, we won't have 56 million tourists next year but 54 million tourists. It's not end of the world.

Italy is not Cancun.

You guys are talking like Italy only depend on American tourism and nothing else. It's not a big deal, really.

But would we want to lose any tourist at all? No, we wouldn't like to but Italy won't bankrupt once we lose 2 million Americans. Also, it's not one way street. US will lose EU tourists as well. Because if EU impose visa on Americans, what will US do? Just sit there and watch? I'm pretty sure, they will impose visas on EU citizens too.

That's why, I said in the beginning, it's just talk. We're speaking hypothetically. They won't dare to impose visas on each other just because they would both lose money in the end.

[Henny]

America has been denying visa-free travel to citizens of Romania, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, and Poland.

You can't have it both ways!

[Lance Blastoff]

Do you think that the voters of Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, etc. are going to give up their visa-free travel to the US?

[HungJohnson69]

(03-04-2017 09:31 AM)Lance Blastoff Wrote:  

Do you think that the voters of Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, etc. are going to give up their visa-free travel to the US?

Most Europeans never travel to the US, so I don't know if they care.

And even if you need a visa, it's only a small additional hassle to what is a once in a lifetime trip to many anyways. It's not the end of the world.

[BrewDog]

(03-04-2017 07:12 AM)Rossi Wrote:  

Let's say, EU impose visa on USA. There are roughly 4 million Americans coming to Italy per year, it won't go to 0. Maybe %50 of them won't come, so we're gonna lose 2 million Americans.

Roughly speaking, we won't have 56 million tourists next year but 54 million tourists. It's not end of the world.

Italy is not Cancun.

Hear hear!

I'm all for these new visa fees if it means that Italy loses money. I hope this passes and Americans go elsewhere for vacation. We apparently won't be missed in Europe.

[luckskywalker]

USA requires visa for Brazil, but US continues to be the top destination for Brazilians, even tho Brazilians don't need a visa to EU. So I don't think a visa would stop tourism to Europe from USA.

[Rossi]

(03-03-2017 11:47 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  

Godzilla posted links above containing the stats. The US makes up a large number of visitors to the EU. A much larger percentage than some of the countries neighboring the other EU nations. You're right. It's not a big deal. Greece doesn't need money these days, right?

I also hope Trump makes good on his promise to pull out of NATO. It's about time Europe pays its own way instead of Americans footing the bill to protect Europe while they indulge in socialism with the money they don't have to spend on a military.

Yes, Europe doesn't need America. And America certainly doesn't need Europe. If there's such a hatred for anything and everything American, I'll be content to go elsewhere to party.

It's not called hatred. It's called double standards. All EU member countries don't impose visa for Americans but Americans impose visa on several EU countries.

It's not fair. You'll get treated the way you treat people.

I just looked it up thinking maybe 10 million Americans go to Greece per year after reading your message. It turns out only 700,000 Americans visit Greece per year. If EU impose visa on Americans, let's say %50 won't go. So, are you saying 350,000 American tourists are holding Greece from bankrupting?

Guess what? Turkish people go to Greece most with weekend visa's, since some of Greek islands are 45 mins away from Turkish land. They get visa at the port when they arrive. It's some kind of special visa, it's not Schengen. They can only visit Greece with that visa and it's only for 1 week.

Greece just ended that visa-deal with Turkey in January. So, if Greece is as desperate as you say for tourists, they wouldn't cancel that deal with them. Obviously losing 350,000 American tourists won't bankrupt them at all.

You come to my country without visa, I come to yours without visa. Fair.
You come to my country without visa, you REQUIRE visa from me to visit yours. Unfair.

[BrewDog]

(03-04-2017 02:46 PM)Rossi Wrote:  

You come to my country without visa, I come to yours without visa. Fair.
You come to my country without visa, you REQUIRE visa from me to visit yours. Unfair.

I don't make these immigration rules. Neither does any other American. Do you make your country's visa rules?

The reason I want people to visit the US has nothing to do with money. As someone that has traveled extensively, I meet a lot of people. And when I do, they find out that this American guy is not the uneducated, obese, loud, piece of shit they thought I was going to be. When people visit the US, they discover that most Americans are very welcoming, nice, considerate people. That's why I want people to visit the States.

But I'm not going to suck anyone's asshole to visit Europe if you guys don't want us or our money. I say fine, go screw. The only exception for me is the Netherlands. I do love the Dutch. I also love the English, even though they're the biggest bastards to ever walk the Earth. But I can always hang out with them in other places, so no biggie.

[godzilla]

The European Union is full of double standards.

Look at all the countries the European Union forces to get visas, yet many of these countries allow visa-free travel for europeans.

So unfair

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_polic...engen_Area

[azulsombra]

Europe doesn't have the balls to do this. If EU wants Americans to get Visas so bad because of "equality" then they should kick out all the US armed forces stationed there at the same time. If they are ready to do that because a few Bulgarians need US visas then so be it.
Most of these countries aren't even allowed to use the official EU currency yet but the EU expects America to treat them as full members. There is the hypocrisy.

[GlobalMan]

(03-04-2017 02:46 PM)Rossi Wrote:  

You come to my country without visa, I come to yours without visa. Fair.
You come to my country without visa, you REQUIRE visa from me to visit yours. Unfair.

Sure that sounds good, but makes no sense at all.

What is the risk of Americans overstaying illegally in Romania to work as a dishwasher? Zero.

What is the risk of an average Romanian doing the same in the U.S.? Much higher, obviously.

A shit ton of people from poorer countries want to come to live in the U.S. because they can indeed have a better life - Yes, still.

On the flip side there are no Americans clamoring to go to Bulgaria and work illegally in low level jobs and overstay.

The visa policies of nearly every country are based on levels of risk of visa violation and overstay weighed against the benefit of easier entry for those foreigners. Romania has little or nothing to lose and at least something to gain from allowing citizens of wealthier countries to enter easily. The USA has little or nothing to gain from allowing Romanians easy entry, and something to lose.

I do not care if I'm made to get a visa, every country has the right to control entry to their country- but lets not pretend all countries are equal and if you let me in to yours easily then it's only "fair" if we let you into ours just as easily.

The circumstances are not remotely comparable- thus the visa policies aren't either.

[Rossi]

You should have thought that before and not sign the treaty between EU-USA visa waiver agreement in 2001.

You signed it and now, not obeying. You're supposed to read the agreements before you sign it, not 15 years later after you signed. That's what EU argue right now. Nobody put a gun to your head to sign it but you did. If you signed it, EU expect you to follow up with it. Very simple, isn't it?

And having lived in USA for 8,5 years, I think you're a bit late to protect your country from illegal immigrants. As far as I see in New York and Los Angeles, quarter of your country population is illegal anyhow. You're too late for that.

I personally think EU won't do anything like I said in my first message in here but legally speaking, EU is right and they have the agreement with US President signature underneath.

[BrewDog]

(03-05-2017 06:57 AM)Rossi Wrote:  

And having lived in USA for 8,5 years, I think you're a bit late to protect your country from illegal immigrants. As far as I see in New York and Los Angeles, quarter of your country population is illegal anyhow. You're too late for that.

The damage is certainly there. It's been ignored for so long.

But if I come home and see that a pipe has busted and flooded my house, do I say fuck it, it's too late? Or do I still fix that leak?

[Rossi]

(03-05-2017 08:25 AM)BrewDog Wrote:  

The damage is certainly there. It's been ignored for so long.

But if I come home and see that a pipe has busted and flooded my house, do I say fuck it, it's too late? Or do I still fix that leak?

You don't sign an agreement with the pipe. I'll give you better example.

When I was living in NYC, I signed a contract with AT&T for phone service. I moved to Scottsdale 5 months later, I was receiving no service at home in Scottsdale. I wanted to switch my phone service because I had no signal at home in Scottsdale. AT&T said, "Buddy, you signed an agreement. You took full responsibility for 2 years. You gotta pay $600 to cancel it."

Thats what agreements are for. You either won't sign it or analyze it really good before signing it.

In this case, EU-USA signed the visa-waiver agreement in 2001. EU follow up with the agreement, USA doesn't.