[Feldeinsamkeit]

Well, I'm currently on day 24 of no-fap and day 11 of zinc supplements and the eye-fucking from women on the street here in Leipzig and with women's overall responsiveness to my daygame approaches are really beginning to shine through. When I'm in the groove, as I wast today, I'm having women who pass Roosh's boner test with flying colours staring right into my eyes and smiling, women doing double takes with a big smile on their face and lots of other crazy shit going on, that I would scarcely believe it myself were it not for the fact that some of the responses from my opening them are beginning to back it up. If there are any guys on here who are struggling with confidence issues when approaching women, you need to get onto the no-fap program - and fast - since the much-reported positive effects with women are very real.

For example, today I was in a high-energy, DGAF mindset and roll into one of the major bookstores in town. I instantly make eye-contact with a solid 6.5 and decide I'll approach her. Now, given the fact that I had a young 8 go all histrionic on me yesterday, saying, "Oh my God ...", when I tried to open her, throwing her arms up in the air whilst in the middle of the shop, I must admit I didn't have the balls to immediately open her, so we ended up doing this dance where she moved insanely slowly after I walked up nearer to her, then she would linger for an eternity waiting for me to open her, before finally moving slowly to another part of the shelves, looking back at me. Anyway, when I did open her, she immediately broke into a big smile and was very receptive. Turned out she was a single mum with time to spare in the bookstore that day, but where I ended up getting tongue-tied talking about fiction, which is not surprising, since it's not my cup of tea in any case. After a few minutes of banter she ambles away, clearly chuffed that I'd finally hit on her. But I curse myself for not having had the balls to push further with it and for the fact that my mind went to jelly mid-way through the interaction. I bail from bookstore to reflect on where I've gone wrong - yet again.

Anyway, I decide to take a few minutes rest to reflect on my mistakes and then head into the cheap one euro shop in one of the malls. As I'm sauntering in, my attention is immediately drawn to a tall, skinny blonde going in before me. She's in her early to mid-20s and is a solid 8, I shit you not. Anyway, where the fucking courage came from to open her, I don't know, but I just go straight up to her like I own the joint and say, "It's like a bloody bazaar in here", in German. Now, her first response on turning to face me is, "Sorry, I didn't understand what you" to which I then say it more slowly, looking into her eyes with firm look. She then responds by saying, "Oh, yes, now I understand". She then pauses for a couple of seconds before saying, haltingly, "I'm sorry, I don't want this" ("Entschulding, Ich will das aber nicht"), meaning, obviously, the fact that I've started to chat her up. Perhaps oddly for me, I don't get stressed out by this and simply make a gesture with my hand and respond, "No problem" but I don't justify myself or offer any explanations. So, I go back to looking at the stationary on the shelf and expect her to do the same or just walk off. But she doesn't do this. Instead, she turns around to me at a 45 degree angle and mumbles a similar sentence, but in a very unsure voice, to the effect of, "Look, this isn't something I can do" and just stands there looking at me, but not saying anymore. The most striking thing about this is that it doesn't feel at all like a brush-off, even though looked at from the lens of the words alone, this would be the only reasonable conclusion to draw. What I notice is that there's a huge disconnect between her words and her body language here, an incongruity that will only become clear at the end of the interaction. After a few seconds of tense silence, I say to her, "Ah, there's that rule that you can't talk to strangers here, isn't there?", which then gets her smiling and we start to banter about Leipzig, what we're doing there, et.c., even though she's just uttered the words telling me not to hit on her. As this is taking place, I also notice how she's really getting invested in the conversation, even qualifying herself when I offer a contrary opinion about some terminology in the medical profession (she is a trainee doctor), as well as giving me other good IOIs, such as getting very girly and giggly, standing with her legs crossed facing me and generally falling into my frame the more I was steering the conversation and looking full-on into her eyes. She could have bailed at any time, I wasn't standing in the way and the exit of the shop was close, so it wasn't like she felt she had to remain glued to the spot. Five minutes later and we've found out about what we've studied, where we went to university, our professions, et.c. Mindful that she'd already told me that she's off to do further study in Switzerland in 4 days' time, I ask her straight out for a drink. She declines, but I can tell that her limbic brain is straining to say yes even though she says that she's got a boyfriend. I push a little further and say, "So, you schedule is really so full you can't manage it?". She pauses for a moment before saying, "Sorry, I'm afraid not". So, I wish her the best and we both go our separate ways. But I could feel the disconnect in her words from her body language and the sexual tension between us the whole time. I can't help wondering whether if I'd adopted a more forceful approach right to the very end, the result would have still been the same. This is the furthest I've got thus far with any woman in a daygame encounter, let alone a stunner, so I'm still trying to digest all this as I write it down.

Now, this is the second time this has happened in as many weeks, i.e., a girl who is really into the interaction after we've exchanged good eye-contact, who then drops the BF bombshell at the end, but where the body language and the verbal language and incongruent. My question to you guys is this: How would you have played this situation? Would you have still persisted and, if so, how?

[Steve McQueen]

I am a believer in Karma, for this reason I dont tend to mess around with taken women, married or dating.

Also this can be a polite way of letting you down, if a girl was really into it she wouldnt bring him up at all in my experience. I have found out after the fact with a girl that she did have a significant other but if shes not upfront its on her not you.

I would ask yourself how would you feel if you were there in person as the boyfriend and roles were reversed? It will always be in the back of your mind the older you get and you will end up a possessive dickhead from the resulting insecurity.

Always go to sleep with a clear conscience is my motto, or as close to as you can get.

[Thrill Jackson]

It's a doggy dog world out their. If she is not married fuck it. Plus, it is a shit test half the time.

[Feldeinsamkeit]

(03-02-2017 02:16 PM)Steve McQueen Wrote:  

I am a believer in Karma, for this reason I dont tend to mess around with taken women, married or dating.

Also this can be a polite way of letting you down, if a girl was really into it she wouldnt bring him up at all in my experience. I have found out after the fact with a girl that she did have a significant other but if shes not upfront its on her not you.

I would ask yourself how would you feel if you were there in person as the boyfriend and roles were reversed? It will always be in the back of your mind the older you get and you will end up a possessive dickhead from the resulting insecurity.

Always go to sleep with a clear conscience is my motto, or as close to as you can get.

OK, I take your point, especially since what you say articulates the same moral voice in my head until quite recently. The problem that I have, though, is that I have yet to encounter an attractive woman who isn't involved with a guy - be it a fuck-buddy, casual boyfriend, serious boyfriend or married, who is ever receptive like this. It's almost like once they're involved with somebody, their receptivity to a ballsy and up-front approach increases, such that my approaches are much more likely to pay off. In fact, this question is worthy of a thread on its own, I would say but I don't have the time to go into it any further here.

[torridon747]

Yes, because I simply don't believe them. All women have a fuckbuddy or a guy friend that's bordeing "boyfriend" but I truely believe it's just an shit-test a good 80% of the time.

My typical go-to is to act like I don't care or if I'm feeling really bold look her in the eyes with a medium level of intensity and say "Do you love him"?

You would be so fucking suprised at how many girls say "NO! WHAT?".

More women hesitate and sputter out a "Y-...yes?". Then I call them out for hesitation and their reaction from then on out shapes how I deal with it.

Very few women will look at me with the same intensity and say "yes, I love him" or reply with some other form of genuine care. I leave those alone.

[Steve McQueen]

Looking forward to seeing what others think but I always feel that if a girl says she has a boyfriend you are then in the position where she is setting the frame.

I am actually on my way out to meet a married woman now as it happens but she has said that she does what she likes and marriage is more or less for show these day. I was in her house and met her kids so I believe her.

Do I feel bad, no. If I thought I was ruining a loving relationship I would though.

Way I see this one, if its not me its going to be someone else, may as well.

Incidentally this is only second time I have seen her, last time was a drunken lay about a month ago, she called me asking to meet about 30 mins ago.

[Feldeinsamkeit]

(03-02-2017 03:40 PM)Steve McQueen Wrote:  

Looking forward to seeing what others think but I always feel that if a girl says she has a boyfriend you are then in the position where she is setting the frame.

I am actually on my way out to meet a married woman now as it happens but she has said that she does what she likes and marriage is more or less for show these day. I was in her house and met her kids so I believe her.

Do I feel bad, no. If I thought I was ruining a loving relationship I would though.

Way I see this one, if its not me its going to be someone else, may as well.

Incidentally this is only second time I have seen her, last time was a drunken lay about a month ago, she called me asking to meet about 30 mins ago.

I disagree. I read it more as a shit test, nothing more than that. As I said in my OP, the hot blonde's vibe and body language was very much of the sort, "I've got a BF but I'm willing to reconsider if a better deal comes along". She could have bailed after she initially said half-heartedly that she wasn't "doing it" but she still decided to stay and get drawn in by me. That her initial statement made it abundantly clear that she knew what my game was right off the bat, i.e. to bang her, only reinforces this point in my mind, although I'm keen to hear what other RVFers think about the way I've read the situation.

As for the morality of it: Firstly, it wasn't even clear what sort of relationship this girl was in, i.e. whether it was a FWB arrangement or a LTR or something else for that matter. Secondly, she might have been about to dump him in any case or some other such scenario might apply. Thirdly, my encounter today confirmed what so many have reported in their dealings with women, namely, that they are highly emotionally susceptible to external influence and are liable to get swept up in the drama of the moment if an interesting enough guy approaches her. The way I see it is that if she's open to this kind of thing, then it's only a question of time before it's some other random dude getting his end away with her rather than me, so I might away try to be that guy. And, last but not least, the market for desirable women is getting more competitive by the month. If I were to patiently wait around before I got positive responses from women that didn't mention they had boyfriends, I'd be waiting until the end of time.

[Mercenary]

Just tell her to give you her phone number anyway.
Simple as that.

[Feldeinsamkeit]

(03-02-2017 04:04 PM)Mercenary Wrote:  

Just tell her to give you her phone number anyway.
Simple as that.

But have you ever been in situations where this has worked, though, i.e., she initially drops the BF bomb, but you disregard and still ask for her number and she gives you it and, to take the cake, you still end up banging the girl? This for me is the million dollar question, since it is the biggest stumbling block I've encountered with an otherwise very positive reception from the girl.

[ksbms]

(03-02-2017 02:33 PM)Eugenics Wrote:  

Yes, because I simply don't believe them. All women have a fuckbuddy or a guy friend that's bordeing "boyfriend" but I truely believe it's just an shit-test a good 80% of the time.

This.

Once I met a Greek girl at a theatre, after the play we chatted, she said she had a boyfriend, didn't say a a word about it, then straight after went to one bar, then another. Met again, my place, banged. Always ignore their mentioning boyfriend, if they keep going at it I say I'm not a boyfriend material or a variation thereof.

[LockeAndLoad]

She either takes your number or doesn't. If she has a boyfriend and doesn't want to do anything (or isn't interested in you), she won't take it. No harm in offering.

[ksbms]

(03-02-2017 02:09 PM)Feldeinsamkeit Wrote:  

Mindful that she'd already told me that she's off to do further study in Switzerland in 4 days' time, I ask her straight out for a drink. She declines, but I can tell that her limbic brain is straining to say yes even though she says that she's got a boyfriend.

Going abroad + boyfriend + 4 days = 'r-selection' because no time, and nobody will know. It will only come with experience to execute it and to make decisions instinctively - you had just seconds to immediately switch to a sex mode, touch her arm, prod her belly with your finger, grasp a handful of hair to get feedback how amenable she was to physical contact and to, at the same time, your acting über-dominant. Overconfidence is king.

It sounds like she was toying with the idea, from what you wrote, anyway. You played it good but not great. A dominant, r-selecting man, who aims for SDL doesn't ask questions because they give an opportunity to think, give negative answer and, consequently, opportunity to decline the offer. The best thing would've been to say, if her logistics were good (that is, she wasn't in a hurry), "I know a great place just around a corner for a quick drink. Let's go". And just start walking, hoping she would fall into your frame and follow. Man leads, woman follows. Man acts, woman reacts. High risk, though high reward.

[Feldeinsamkeit]

(03-02-2017 05:19 PM)ksbms Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 02:09 PM)Feldeinsamkeit Wrote:  

Mindful that she'd already told me that she's off to do further study in Switzerland in 4 days' time, I ask her straight out for a drink. She declines, but I can tell that her limbic brain is straining to say yes even though she says that she's got a boyfriend.

Going abroad + boyfriend + 4 days = 'r-selection' because no time, and nobody will know. It will only come with experience to execute it and to make decisions instinctively - you had just seconds to immediately switch to a sex mode, touch her arm, prod her belly with your finger, grasp a handful of hair to get feedback how amenable she was to physical contact and to, at the same time, your acting über-dominant. Overconfidence is king.

It sounds like she was toying with the idea, from what you wrote, anyway. You played it good but not great. A dominant, r-selecting man, who aims for SDL doesn't ask questions because they give an opportunity to think, give negative answer and, consequently, opportunity to decline the offer. The best thing would've been to say, if her logistics were good (that is, she wasn't in a hurry), "I know a great place just around a corner for a quick drink. Let's go". And just start walking, hoping she would fall into your frame and follow. Man leads, woman follows. Man acts, woman reacts. High risk, though high reward.

Here's the deal: It's taken me long enough to even get to this point of being relatively forward and yet it is clear for the reasons you've just given, that I've still got some way to go before I've marched all of my troops up to the top of the hill. You mentioned kino at the point of her saying she's going to Switzerland: Fuck, if only I had thought of this, I might have just given it a go and managed to salvage this encounter again. I'm still summoning up the courage to get more direct with girls that I'm encountering and kino is something that I really need to start using asap, given that I'm getting a positive vibe more frequently now when daygaming, despite the uebercunts spoiling the mood music for me at times and causing me to skip a beat.

[PapayaTapper]

(03-02-2017 04:10 PM)Feldeinsamkeit Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 04:04 PM)Mercenary Wrote:  

Just tell her to give you her phone number anyway.
Simple as that.

But have you ever been in situations where this has worked, though, i.e., she initially drops the BF bomb, but you disregard and still ask for her number and she gives you it and, to take the cake, you still end up banging the girl? This for me is the million dollar question, since it is the biggest stumbling block I've encountered with an otherwise very positive reception from the girl.

Yes. It's been said a million times. Rarely is a truly attractive girl single.



Her "interest" is just her way of testing to see if you're her next branch.

Like everything it's a simple battle between "fear" and "desire"

Your game just has to create enough attraction (desire for something unknown: you) to overcome her fear (losing something known:her current boyfriend).

If she's truly receptive to the "possibility of you" it's indicative of a less than"100% happy" in her current situation. There's a crack there

Best practice: Pretend to not even hear the existence of the BF (If you don't ignore...she can't...You do ignore it...she can too) In some cases she'll feel her her conscience is clear because she told you

Quick example-

Her: "Im sorry...Ive got a BF"

You: "Well are you a coffee or tea kind of girl? I'd bet your the coffee type...right?

Her "Ummm no I prefer tea actually"

You "Great, then I'd like to buy you a cup of tea. I know this cool place nearby that has....blah blah"

Ignore the BF ...Play on

If

PS Try using "forced alternative' questions (another topic) where either answer is a win for you rather than a determined "yes" or "no". It's a basic "sales" technique that translates well into game

[/color]

[Feldeinsamkeit]

(03-02-2017 05:33 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 04:10 PM)Feldeinsamkeit Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 04:04 PM)Mercenary Wrote:  

Just tell her to give you her phone number anyway.
Simple as that.

But have you ever been in situations where this has worked, though, i.e., she initially drops the BF bomb, but you disregard and still ask for her number and she gives you it and, to take the cake, you still end up banging the girl? This for me is the million dollar question, since it is the biggest stumbling block I've encountered with an otherwise very positive reception from the girl.

Yes. It's been said a million times. Rarely is a truly attractive girl single.



Her "interest" is just her way of testing to see if you're her next branch.

Like everything it's a simple battle between "fear" and "desire"

Your game just has to create enough attraction (desire for something unknown: you) to overcome her fear (losing something known:her current boyfriend).

If she's truly receptive to the "possibility of you" it's indicative of a less than"100% happy" in her current situation. There's a crack there

Best practice: Pretend to not even hear the existence of the BF (If you don't...she can't...You do...she can too)

Quick example-

Her: "Im sorry...Ive got a BF"

You: "Well are you a coffee or tea kind of girl? I'd bet your the coffee type...right?

Her "Ummm no I prefer tea actually"

You "Great, then I'd like to buy you a cup of tea. I know this cool place nearby that has....blah blah"

Ignore the BF ...Play on

If

PS Try using "forced alternative' questions (another topic) where either answer is a win for you rather than a determined "yes" or "no". It's a basic "sales" technique that translates well into game

[/color]

On reflection, I could kick myself in the balls for not thinking of this. It was clear from her behaviour, despite a couple of falteringly uttered protestations to the contrary, that she was up for an adventure, yet I wasn't prepared to go nuclear in crashing the car to get what I wanted. Rather than get her number, I should have just ploughed on and pushed for an instadate. Jesus ...

[ksbms]

(03-02-2017 05:27 PM)Feldeinsamkeit Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 05:19 PM)ksbms Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 02:09 PM)Feldeinsamkeit Wrote:  

Mindful that she'd already told me that she's off to do further study in Switzerland in 4 days' time, I ask her straight out for a drink. She declines, but I can tell that her limbic brain is straining to say yes even though she says that she's got a boyfriend.

Going abroad + boyfriend + 4 days = 'r-selection' because no time, and nobody will know. It will only come with experience to execute it and to make decisions instinctively - you had just seconds to immediately switch to a sex mode, touch her arm, prod her belly with your finger, grasp a handful of hair to get feedback how amenable she was to physical contact and to, at the same time, your acting über-dominant. Overconfidence is king.

It sounds like she was toying with the idea, from what you wrote, anyway. You played it good but not great. A dominant, r-selecting man, who aims for SDL doesn't ask questions because they give an opportunity to think, give negative answer and, consequently, opportunity to decline the offer. The best thing would've been to say, if her logistics were good (that is, she wasn't in a hurry), "I know a great place just around a corner for a quick drink. Let's go". And just start walking, hoping she would fall into your frame and follow. Man leads, woman follows. Man acts, woman reacts. High risk, though high reward.

Here's the deal: It's taken me long enough to even get to this point of being relatively forward and yet it is clear for the reasons you've just given, that I've still got some way to go before I've marched all of my troops up to the top of the hill. You mentioned kino at the point of her saying she's going to Switzerland: Fuck, if only I had thought of this, I might have just given it a go and managed to salvage this encounter again. I'm still summoning up the courage to get more direct with girls that I'm encountering and kino is something that I really need to start using asap, given that I'm getting a positive vibe more frequently now when daygaming, despite the uebercunts spoiling the mood music for me at times and causing me to skip a beat.

Word of caution - going (super)direct + physical spiking, might be too much for the day time stuff. Girls aren't stupid, they don't need to be both told you want to fuck them whilst grabbing their boobs . Neutral chat, with mild sexualisation (I like your XYZ) and incidental touching will do the job).

[Mercenary]

(03-02-2017 04:10 PM)Feldeinsamkeit Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 04:04 PM)Mercenary Wrote:  

Just tell her to give you her phone number anyway.
Simple as that.

But have you ever been in situations where this has worked, though, i.e., she initially drops the BF bomb, but you disregard and still ask for her number and she gives you it and, to take the cake, you still end up banging the girl? This for me is the million dollar question, since it is the biggest stumbling block I've encountered with an otherwise very positive reception from the girl.

Yes, this has happened to me more than once.
Just ask for her phone number and send a text 1 or 2 days later.
You are overthinking this way too much.

[Skank_Hunt]

There's this PU community paranoia that everything a girl says or does is a lie and just a shit test. The BF objection is sure a common way for a girl to say no, regardless of whether it is strictly true or not. However any reasonably attractive girl always has one or more guys she is involved with. Titles vary but rarely is a young attractive girl truly single. Hell in the west you could apply this for warpigs as well, because there is always someone desperate enough.

I don't think the girl was lying about her BF. I think she was attracted to you in the moment. But real life got in the way. A lot of times you have base attraction but that's just the start of it. She's leaving in a few days. So you have to act quick. Much harder in daygame where you have to settle for a number most of the time. Then even if you do get the bang, she's gone in a few days. Cold approach to get a bang from daygame takes a lot of effort so after the bang I want the girl to be chasing me, to want a relationship with me, not the other way around, where she goes back to her BF. Even if you are "superior" to him and you believe 100% in the whole hypergamy concept, this is offset by the often large investment a girl has in her relationship. This means you not only have to be quite considerably superior, but also have a connection with her, and be able to have the right logistics to bang her and build that connection to the point where she will choose you outright. Even then the BF and maybe other guys too will probably be orbiting, hitting her up. It would take a woman who is inherently more loyal than most, and who is very passionately in love with you, to ignore all that attention.

At night girls are buzzed and they act more according to impulse and momentary desire. If your logistics are good then you can get one time bangs from girls with stable BFs. I guess that's the true "r-selection" stuff which is promoted heavily. But one time bangs are far less satisfying than mini relationships where both the repeated sexual and emotional benefits are huge. I have banged a few girls from bars/clubs who didn't even mention their BF to me. The next day I call and she either texts me with the BF thing, or I hear a guy in the background questioning her about who it is, or her BF literally answers the phone, "This is Stacey's boyfriend, who the hell is this?" I don't tell him my dick was in his girl less than 12 hours ago, that would just create unnecessary drama. The so-called "k-selected" BFs can be very, very aggressive and protective because they live in scarcity and are essentially white knights who also manage to bang the girl regularly.

Because this girl was so hot, and because you got such a good result (well done, by the way), you're pretty damn buzzed about it and you think you could have banged her. You might be beating yourself up about not taking it further, but honestly, you have made such progress just pat yourself on the back and build on this minor victory. Next approaches that go well, get some numbers and try to get some dates. This girl was a very busy medical student with a BF and probably other backups and leaving in a few days. These are huge factors against you that were out of control. If you had got the bang, the most you would have got would probably have been one bang, a massive victory and relief for you I know, but coupled with the darker side of things, banging a girl you know has a BF and also the intense desire for her to be your GF after that for regular bangs and just intimate connection with an attractive female, which she probably would not be able to give you.

Don't beat yourself up for not testing how far you could have gotten with her physically on the same day, or venue changes on the same day, trying to go for the instant date and bang that day. That kind of stuff takes a lot of time and practice to execute well, plus balls of steel. You're not getting numbers yet consistently, but you bash yourself because you didn't go for a same day bang with a hot, attached medical student leaving in a few days? Slow down a bit; get numbers, dates, and bangs gradually. Worry about advanced shit later. There is a tiny, tiny percentage of men who can pull (regular, non-backpacker/tourist) women in the cold light of day and get the bang.

Still compared to before you're overthinking things much less which is great. In daygame all you can do is try to get numbers, to get dates, to get bangs, which will hopefully lead to relationships for the higher quality girls (or any decent quality if you have no girls in your rotation). I would have just tried to get the number anyway and left, knowing and accepting the chances of anything coming of it were relatively low. If she's not receptive by text for a date nothing much you can do. It's a hard grind out there.

[XPQ22]

(03-02-2017 03:40 PM)Steve McQueen Wrote:  

Looking forward to seeing what others think but I always feel that if a girl says she has a boyfriend you are then in the position where she is setting the frame.

It's a yuge boner-killer for me when a girl tries to run DHV-game on me by bragging about her job, or how many dates she's been on this week, or who she's fucking at the moment. If she's just using it as a shit-test, it's a very masculine and insecure (for a woman) one. Blah. I don't mind shit-tests but "I have a boyfriend!" is about as lame as they get, and highly indicative of a Loser Female if she's using it as that.

Or maybe she really does have a boyfriend she's absolutely committed to. Or at least enough guys in the pipeline that she feels no need for your attention.

I have had this line run on me several times, and what I do know is that in my experience it's never been from girls impressive enough in either the looks or personality department to ever feel bad for more than five minutes for ejecting on.

Sometimes chicks you approach during day/night game find ways to work an indirect phrase like "That's funny you should mention that, my boyfriend was telling me just the other day..." line early into a conversation, and I actually respect that as they're basically being polite and trying to let you save face by saying "I see you're trying to run some game on me here but I'm not really with it, I'll give you a chance to bow out at this point if you want to try someone else."

Girls are somewhat self-aware of how this pickup thing operates; if you're running proper game and they like it at least abstractly, and you have the ability to read between the lines a little bit, many will at least be kind enough to blow you out in a way that lets you keep your pride.

Conversely, what kind of girl lets a guy chat her up for 20 minutes or a half hour, or buy her drinks, and then suddenly drops the "But my boyfriend!" line when he asks for a phone? A loser, that's who. The fashion of loser who truly believes that all men are as big a thirsty loser as whomever she may or may not be involved with.

OP way overthunk this one - if OP spends this much time thinking about every quick banter-session with a hot chick that ends up going nowhere and "why was her body language like that? and did she really mean it? And why didn't she.." then it's going to be a very long haul to get laid from approaching.

I'd frankly be more miffed about letting the 6.5 single mom go - that seemed like the solid lead here. Bet she wouldn't have thrown up any boyfriend BS when OP asked for a phone, and why OP didn't move on her like a bitch when the path was wide open should be the real question here. Could've probably been banging her that very day.

[Feldeinsamkeit]

OK, guys, I've been off the RVF grid for a while now for a good reason: Since the beginning of April I've switched to running completely direct game in which I approach a woman I like and tell her straight up that I think she's attractive, using the London Daygame Model as the framework around which I steer the interaction. The results with my first 100 approaches have been very slow to come in, but in the last week, I've managed to get a good-looking Italian student out on a date after a number close from a cold approach in town and I've also number closed a couple of German girls, both late 20s, slim and attractive, although unfortunately both have already flaked.

But to turn to my daygame session today, the first woman I approach, a slim and OK-looking German hipster type around the age of 30 seemed interested in me from the get go and started to invest quite quickly soon after I had opened her. One of the best body language signs that I've come to recognize with keen girls is when they voluntarily come very close into your space the more the interaction progresses, whilst holding good eye-contact and giving other IOIs, such as getting quite flushed or playing manically with their hair. And this broad was displaying most of these signs and so, after five minutes of various banter about ourselves, I tell her that I want to take her out for a coffee. She replies somewhat hesitantly that it "won't be soon, though", since she's - yes, you've guessed it folks already - got a bloody boyfriend.

Now, up until today when the girl has dropped the BF bomb I've simply acknowledged this fact, wished her well and ejected from the set. But today something different happened with me even though I hadn't planned for it: I simply paused for a couple of seconds and said to her, in a firm tone of voice, "I still want to take you out for a coffee" whilst looking directly into her eyes. I was expecting her to just repeat her previous BF objection and move away, but she simply stood there, cocked me a rather curious little grin and got her phone out to give me her number. She even went to a bit of trouble to make sure that I'd managed to ring through to her phone once she'd given me it.

This interaction has left me wondering what the hell the deal is with women who say they have boyfriends. My experience thus far is that if women are already spoken for in some sense, they are much more likely to respond extremely warmly to my approaches than if they are actually single and I'm still struggling to get my head around why this should be the case. With the broad in question, I'll be playing it by ear from now on and will text her in couple of days to see what's up with her and keep you guys posted on how this pans out.

[torridon747]

They're probably just more comfortable and secure in general. I've noticed that girls that have boyfriends are a lot more open to flirting.

Use it to your advantage if you dare. Remember attraction isn't a choice. If you turn her on and engage her in the right ways you'll still have a shot.

[RatInTheWoods]

The odds are very high that an attractive woman already has a boyfriend.

Imagine being hassled by hundreds of men anytime, anywhere. Trying to be nice and be left alone.

I am all for approaching girls, IF THEY GIVE YOU IOIS, but shotgun approaches, not taking a hint to fuck off, and making a pain in the ass of yourself, is not cool.

[Geomann180]

I'd generally just bail.

I usually lose interest. I just don't want to be that guy, if I can help it.

G

[gework]

Some girls would probably like to be conquered from their current bit of fluff. That you will enterprise beyond that line could be a real turn on for them, but depends on your demeanor, value and their perception of it.

[PapayaTapper]

(04-26-2017 04:35 PM)Feldeinsamkeit Wrote:  

OK, guys, I've been off the RVF grid for a while now for a good reason: Since the beginning of April I've switched to running completely direct game in which I approach a woman I like and tell her straight up that I think she's attractive, using the London Daygame Model as the framework around which I steer the interaction. The results with my first 100 approaches have been very slow to come in, but in the last week, I've managed to get a good-looking Italian student out on a date after a number close from a cold approach in town and I've also number closed a couple of German girls, both late 20s, slim and attractive, although unfortunately both have already flaked.

But to turn to my daygame session today, the first woman I approach, a slim and OK-looking German hipster type around the age of 30 seemed interested in me from the get go and started to invest quite quickly soon after I had opened her. One of the best body language signs that I've come to recognize with keen girls is when they voluntarily come very close into your space the more the interaction progresses, whilst holding good eye-contact and giving other IOIs, such as getting quite flushed or playing manically with their hair. And this broad was displaying most of these signs and so, after five minutes of various banter about ourselves, I tell her that I want to take her out for a coffee. She replies somewhat hesitantly that it "won't be soon, though", since she's - yes, you've guessed it folks already - got a bloody boyfriend.

Now, up until today when the girl has dropped the BF bomb I've simply acknowledged this fact, wished her well and ejected from the set. But today something different happened with me even though I hadn't planned for it: I simply paused for a couple of seconds and said to her, in a firm tone of voice, "I still want to take you out for a coffee" whilst looking directly into her eyes. I was expecting her to just repeat her previous BF objection and move away, but she simply stood there, cocked me a rather curious little grin and got her phone out to give me her number. She even went to a bit of trouble to make sure that I'd managed to ring through to her phone once she'd given me it.

This interaction has left me wondering what the hell the deal is with women who say they have boyfriends. My experience thus far is that if women are already spoken for in some sense, they are much more likely to respond extremely warmly to my approaches than if they are actually single and I'm still struggling to get my head around why this should be the case. With the broad in question, I'll be playing it by ear from now on and will text her in couple of days to see what's up with her and keep you guys posted on how this pans out.

Like I said

(03-02-2017 05:33 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 04:10 PM)Feldeinsamkeit Wrote:  

But have you ever been in situations where this has worked, though, i.e., she initially drops the BF bomb, but you disregard and still ask for her number and she gives you it and, to take the cake, you still end up banging the girl? This for me is the million dollar question, since it is the biggest stumbling block I've encountered with an otherwise very positive reception from the girl.

Yes. It's been said a million times. Rarely is a truly attractive girl single.



Her "interest" is just her way of testing to see if you're her next branch.

Like everything it's a simple battle between "fear" and "desire"

Your game just has to create enough attraction (desire for something unknown: you) to overcome her fear (losing something known:her current boyfriend).

If she's truly receptive to the "possibility of you" it's indicative of a less than"100% happy" in her current situation. There's a crack there

Best practice: Pretend to not even hear the existence of the BF (If you don't ignore...she can't...You do ignore it...she can too) In some cases she'll feel her her conscience is clear because she told you

Quick example-

Her: "Im sorry...Ive got a BF"

You: "Well are you a coffee or tea kind of girl? I'd bet your the coffee type...right?

Her "Ummm no I prefer tea actually"

You "Great, then I'd like to buy you a cup of tea. I know this cool place nearby that has....blah blah"

Ignore the BF ...Play on

If

PS Try using "forced alternative' questions (another topic) where either answer is a win for you rather than a determined "yes" or "no". It's a basic "sales" technique that translates well into game

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