[puckerman]

I'd like to ask some of the experience travelers about your experience taking phones and/or laptops across borders. I've read a couple articles that say it's a bad idea. It's apparenly quite common now for the gatekeepers to take your phone or laptop and download everything on them.

If you don't take a phone or laptop with you, what do you do instead?

Thanks, guys.

[SlickyBoy]

It can be - depends what's on it and where you go and what you're planning to do.

Coming across borders you may be requested (required, in many cases) to allow access to your laptop, even when crossing into the US. But the reality is that as an average tourist going to a neutral destination, you've probably got nothing to worry about absent any associations you maintain with unsavory types. However, if you're traveling to, for example, Russia, China or Israel, your chances of having your stuff gone through either at the border or later at the hotel room while you're out and about are much greater - especially if you're a business or government traveler. If it ever goes out of your sight while you are detained at an airport, assume it is being rummaged through.

If you've got reasons to be concerned, take only what information is absolutely necessary to take with you, don't store any passwords, be sure to encrypt your device and use a VPN when connecting anywhere. You may also be able to use a cloud storage service like One Drive if you must access something you don't want to carry while abroad.

Delete from your hard drive whatever it is you'd rather not share before leaving the country, bearing in mind that unless you use some kind of a good wiping program, there will be a record of it that a forensics team could potentially discover.

A cursory check by a border guard at the US won't escalate to that unless they have a real reason to suspect you have or criminal or terrorist evidence therein. I've been all over the place with three different devices and never once had a computer check or been in a situation where any of them were out of my sight at a border. But for some countries I would limit that number down to one device and keep it within arms reach all the time.

[Rawmeo]

My guess is that you are probably using stuff on your laptop that you don't want authorities to see.

The best idea is to encrypt your hard drive. If it ever goes out of your sight, you can be sure that nobody will access your data. Another layer of protection is to use VeraCrypt containers to store things that you don't want people to see, in case you are forced to give the HDD password to the agent. Additional preparation measures would be to delete your browsing history, cookies, and anything that might allow someone to make a picture of your habits.

But the best defense is to try to act not suspicious.

[FlyHigher123]

Do you know how many phones/laptops are lost or stolen any day? Then you would worry more about that. As a general rule you shouldn't have any sensitive data on portable devices and should have backups of important stuff. If you need any sensitive data while travelling, keep in encrypted in the cloud and just access it when you need.

[Shimmy]

If you aren't breaking the law you don't have anything to worry about. I have a friend who works at the airport in the US and he said they typically only single out guys who exclusively visit the countries where creepy sex tourists go to visit underage people. If that's what they're looking for then I'm all for them being allowed to search peoples laptops. When they deal with that multiple times a day they don't give two shits about you downloading the latest blockbuster hit off of thepiratebay.

[Wayout]

(02-19-2017 05:24 PM)Shimmy Wrote:  

If you aren't breaking the law you don't have anything to worry about. I have a friend who works at the airport in the US and he said they typically only single out guys who exclusively visit the countries where creepy sex tourists go to visit underage people. If that's what they're looking for then I'm all for them being allowed to search peoples laptops. When they deal with that multiple times a day they don't give two shits about you downloading the latest blockbuster hit off of thepiratebay.

Tell your "friend" he is full of shit! Creepy sex tourists are smart enough not to have anything incriminating on them and the least they do is encrypting their shit!
I never heard about any problems crossing Russian or Chinese border and I've crossed it personally many times! However the US border is always a nightmare for me since they once discovered an "illegally downloaded movie" on my flash drive. They confiscated it too as well as all digital media for further inspection!
I encrypt everything now. And no, you don't have to tell them your password if you are a US citizen and crossing into the US.

[polymath]

I don't do anything on my electronic devices that would land me in jail.

You can set up a VPN at home and connect to it via Tor if you're concerned about your web traffic being intercepted.

I've never had problems traveling with my devices, except for one stolen phone in Central America.

Sometimes I take a burner phone if I think I might need it.

I lock my phone and I have never been asked to surrender or unlock it. If asked by my home country upon reentry, I would consider asking to speak to a supervisor and decline to unlock it when he arrives on the scene. Just as a matter of principle.

[Phoenix]

(02-19-2017 05:24 PM)Shimmy Wrote:  

If you aren't breaking the law you don't have anything to worry about. I have a friend who works at the airport in the US and he said they typically only single out guys who exclusively visit the countries where creepy sex tourists go to visit underage people. If that's what they're looking for then I'm all for them being allowed to search peoples laptops.

Turns out most rape happens in the bedroom. So you'll have no problem having government cameras installed in your bedroom? After all, if you're not doing any raping you've got nothing to hide right?

Especially if you've got any passport stamps to Cambodia etc. After all, the 5 million people who visit that country every year shouldn't be entitled to privacy so long as at least one of them is possibly "visiting to be a creepy pedo sex tourist". Also all lone pale faced middle-aged traveler are obviously pedos, so they should be all for having no rights beyond what a border agent feels like giving them.

Hey BeyondBorders, you exclusively visit the "countries where creepy sex tourists go", right? And you have a dick? Since therefore you're a pedo and deserve no rights to privacy, I hope you're letting them install surveillance software on your laptop too.

Maybe someone should think before they type. And if that friend is actually involved in that then I hope he gets his karma.

[Rawmeo]

Last time a border agent said "If you have nothing to hide, you will have no problem giving me your password", I refused, and told him "You're a border agent, so you're surely not a criminal. Since you have nothing to hide, do you mind if I have a look in your personal phone?" That was the end of it.

[SlickyBoy]

If we're talking about US Customs, you're lucky that's how it ended. He could have taken it away and kept it for a while. From their pdf:

Quote:

Authority to Search
All persons, baggage, and merchandise arriving in, or departing from, the United States are
subject to inspection, search and detention. This is because CBP officers must determine
the identity and citizenship of all persons seeking entry into the United States, determine
the admissibility of foreign nationals, and deter the entry of possible terrorists, terrorist
weapons, controlled substances, and a wide variety of other prohibited and restricted items.
Various laws that CBP is charged to enforce authorize such searches and detention (see, for
example, 8 U.S.C. § 1357 and 19 U.S.C. §§ 1499, 1581, 1582).
What Happens Now?
You’re receiving this sheet because your electronic device(s) has been detained for further
examination, which may include copying. You will receive a written receipt (Form 6051-D)
that details what item(s) are being detained, who at CBP will be your point of contact, and
the contact information (including telephone number) you provide to facilitate the return of
your property within a reasonable time upon completion of the examination.
The CBP officer who approved the detention will speak with you and explain the process,
and provide his or her name and contact telephone number if you have any concerns. Some
airport locations have dedicated Passenger Service Managers who are available in addition
to the onsite supervisor to address any concerns.

Remember too, when traveling to some countries active snooping does not stop at the border. I'm not talking about general, NSA type listening to everyone, I mean specifically targeting you and your devices while you are there. Russia, China and Israel among others are in the habit of doing this to business travelers.

[Valentine]

Multiple layers of encryption, keep sensitive information on cloud storage not your hard drive, wipe your phone.

Yes I'm serious about wiping your phone - you can and will eventually be compelled to decrypt your phone and once that's done all your data is ripe for the taking. Just restore your data once out of the airport using a 1-click backup solution like iTunes full restore or Titanium backup for Android.

[TravelerKai]

(02-18-2017 08:25 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  

It can be - depends what's on it and where you go and what you're planning to do.

Coming across borders you may be requested (required, in many cases) to allow access to your laptop, even when crossing into the US. But the reality is that as an average tourist going to a neutral destination, you've probably got nothing to worry about absent any associations you maintain with unsavory types. However, if you're traveling to, for example, Russia, China or Israel, your chances of having your stuff gone through either at the border or later at the hotel room while you're out and about are much greater - especially if you're a business or government traveler. If it ever goes out of your sight while you are detained at an airport, assume it is being rummaged through.

If you've got reasons to be concerned, take only what information is absolutely necessary to take with you, don't store any passwords, be sure to encrypt your device and use a VPN when connecting anywhere. You may also be able to use a cloud storage service like One Drive if you must access something you don't want to carry while abroad.

Delete from your hard drive whatever it is you'd rather not share before leaving the country, bearing in mind that unless you use some kind of a good wiping program, there will be a record of it that a forensics team could potentially discover.

A cursory check by a border guard at the US won't escalate to that unless they have a real reason to suspect you have or criminal or terrorist evidence therein. I've been all over the place with three different devices and never once had a computer check or been in a situation where any of them were out of my sight at a border. But for some countries I would limit that number down to one device and keep it within arms reach all the time.

I've never been asked about my electronics in China's airports. I've never heard of anyone else being asked for a password to stuff either in China.

The only thing they care about these days seems to be personal charge banks and how big they are and how many watts they store. If the number in capacity is not listed on yours, they throw it away quickly and scold you for it.

[balybary]

There is a recent article on wired on the subject.

Quote:

Keep Passwords Secret

This is the tricky part. American citizens can’t be deported for refusing to give up an encryption or social media password, says the ACLU’s Wessler. That means if you stand your ground and don’t reveal passwords or PINs, you may be detained and your devices confiscated—even sent off to a forensic facility—but you’ll eventually get through with your privacy far more intact than if you divulge secrets. “They can seize your device, even for months while they try to break into it,” says Wessler. “But you’re going to get home.”

Be warned, however, that denying customs officials access can at the very least lead to hours of uncertain detention in a bleak, windowless CBP office. And for visa and even green card holders, the right to enter the US is far less clear. “If they truly want to come into America, then they’ll cooperate,” DHS secretary Kelly told Congress last Tuesday. “If not, you know, next in line.” If the DHS does adopt that hardline policy of privacy invasion, it could leave non-citizens without easy answers.

For a travel it's better to keep your secret datas at home with at least a password protection (or to hide the datas somewhere else), and cross the border with clean device (smartphone, computer, camera, etc).

Also you need to stock your important datas on different devices and different locations, in case of a technical problem for example.

[John Michael Kane]

If you're that concerned, you can always backup your files to the cloud before crossing the border, then doing a factory reset on the phone as you pass through customs. If they ask any questions, just say you just had to reset the phone because you got a virus on it.

[Wayout]

I would not trust any cloud storage..Would you trust Microsoft or Google not give government whatever they ask? Encryption, however ,always works, practically impossible to break, and the information is in your possession! It also protects your information against theft and any other unauthorized access.

Edit: May I also suggest taking out the battery out of your laptop and putting it as far away as possible. Many reasons for this.

[Valentine]

(02-20-2017 07:47 PM)Wayout Wrote:  

I would not trust any cloud storage..Would you trust Microsoft or Google not give government whatever they ask? Encryption, however ,always works, practically impossible to break, and the information is in your possession! It also protects your information against theft and any other unauthorized access.

Encrypt everything before it goes on cloud storage, it's not either/or.

It's best to avoid PRISM companies for cloud storage but they certainly are the cheapest option and best for those without sysadmin skills. Otherwise find another cloud storage provider or go the self-hosted route.

[RBerkley]

(02-19-2017 05:24 PM)Shimmy Wrote:  

If you aren't breaking the law you don't have anything to worry about. I have a friend who works at the airport in the US and he said they typically only single out guys who exclusively visit the countries where creepy sex tourists go to visit underage people. If that's what they're looking for then I'm all for them being allowed to search peoples laptops. When they deal with that multiple times a day they don't give two shits about you downloading the latest blockbuster hit off of thepiratebay.

Problem is that the feds will always find some excuse to violate someone's personal liberties.

Why should an innocent man be subject to violation of his Constitutional rights because some overpaid bureaucrat like Bill Clinton went to shove his wiener up some 5-year-old girl's pee-pee on Jeffrey Epstein's private island (according to Wikileaks & Alex Jones)?

What about these feminism who travel to certain countries in the Caribbean & Africa to molest little boys while posting those child rape pics on their Instagram? Why are they not considered "suspicious" like an innocent play a on here wanting to meet cute chicks abroad?

[RBerkley]

(02-20-2017 04:08 PM)John Michael Kane Wrote:  

If you're that concerned, you can always backup your files to the cloud before crossing the border, then doing a factory reset on the phone as you pass through customs. If they ask any questions, just say you just had to reset the phone because you got a virus on it.

no, don't tell the Feds that.

They will accuse you of "tampering evidence" & they might deport you if you're already in another country, or if you're returning to your country of origin, they could open up a search warrant to search your premises.

The best thing to tell the Feds is nothing at all in this case, or tell them the phone is probably broken. Telling the Feds that you purposely reset your phone while being ordered to hand it over for their paranoia is considered a felony.

They can claim that it is similar to when there is a court order not to destroy evidence. Feds are tricky fucks. They don't even ask a question about that empowered feminazi cunt returning from Zimbabwe, South Africa or Nigeria to sex some 10-year-old boys in the slums, but a single man is subject to more scrutiny under Pedo & terrorism hysteria legislation.

[John Michael Kane]

Tampering with evidence? There's nothing illegal about wiping your phone before crossing a border, unless you're already under investigation, and the phone has been seized as evidence. You reset the phone BEFORE you're going through customs, not while you are in holding. With Google and Apple cloud accounts, it isn't hard to reinstall your contacts once you've passed through customs. As long as you factory reset the phone before you leave for the airport, you're not going to get in trouble.

[CleanSlate]

If you're traveling with both a phone and computer, and you backup your phone using your computer, wipe your phone, aren't they going to want to check your computer, too?

How do you disconnect your computer from your cloud services like Google Drive, One Drive, etc? That way they won't see that I have cloud services and rummage through that stuff.

[puckerman]

Thanks for all the responses. I was hoping not just to ask for myself, but to create a general discussion around this issue.

Anyway, I'm going to Peru to do some real ayahuasca drinking this year. I have a Droid-based phone which I may take or not.

Right now, the only laptop I use is my work laptop. Since I do sys admin work for a hospital chain, taking that laptop with me would be a very bad idea. We deal with lots of stuff surrounding HIPAA (doctor-patient confidentiality laws). I probably wouldn't be allowed to take it anyway.

My main computer at home is a tower I built myself.

I am thinking of possibly just getting an old phone and temporarily switching over to that. I could leave my Droid at home. I have also read that it is easy to get temporary phones in the places you visit.

I might take an old laptop with me to use for journaling and other things. I got it as a discard from my workplace. I've installed Debian Linux on it. No doubt, that is something they don't get very often.

[John Michael Kane]

When I say "backup", I don't mean back it up to a local source, I mean back it up to the cloud. There's nothing for someone to "search" on a cloud account, absent a court order or them hacking it. Just make sure you use a secure password with 2-factor SMS authentication, plus remove your SIM chip if you are really paranoid so they can't get the text. I don't recommend storing something on a local device that is highly sensitive and subject to being breached by in-person I.T. techs.

[CleanSlate]

(02-20-2017 10:21 PM)John Michael Kane Wrote:  

When I say "backup", I don't mean back it up to a local source, I mean back it up to the cloud. There's nothing for someone to "search" on a cloud account, absent a court order or them hacking it. Just make sure you use a secure password with 2-factor SMS authentication, plus remove your SIM chip if you are really paranoid so they can't get the text. I don't recommend storing something on a local device that is highly sensitive and subject to being breached by in-person I.T. techs.

Right. Yeah, I really should rethink how I backup my laptop.

[Valentine]

(02-20-2017 10:06 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

If you're traveling with both a phone and computer, and you backup your phone using your computer, wipe your phone, aren't they going to want to check your computer, too?

Sure, but your computer data can be protected much more easily than your phone data can e.g. by using web apps exclusively, using an amnesic operating system like Tails etc.

Quote:

How do you disconnect your computer from your cloud services like Google Drive, One Drive, etc? That way they won't see that I have cloud services and rummage through that stuff.

Either upload using the web app, or uninstall the desktop app after use.

[John Michael Kane]

For backups, it certainly doesn't hurt to have a local copy in a safe place. I have a local copy of my important files in a bank vault. I also have another HDD with my files backed up in my safe at my house. In addition to that, I have a cloud backup. It never hurts to have on-site and off-site backups, because if one fails, you should have more than one way of restoring, in case one of those fails.