[JayMillz]

President Obama, in one of his last foreign policy initiatives, said Thursday he has ended the “wet-foot, dry-foot” policy that has allowed Cubans reaching U.S. soil to stay and automatically become eligible for American residency, while those intercepted at sea are sent home.

In a statement issued by the White House, Obama said that, effective immediately, Cuban migrants will now be treated “the same way we treat migrants from other countries.”

The policy, put in place by the Clinton administration in 1996, altered the long-standing special immigration status of Cubans in place since the 1960s that had sent hundreds of thousands across the Florida Straits, often in leaky boats or homemade rafts.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nat...18e070f372

[Atlanta Man]

Game Changer! All the rednecks in Ft Lauderdale and all parts North Florida are rejoicing! Make South Florida America Again!!! Make Miami Great Again!!! MMGA!!! English is back in South Florida!

[JayMillz]

(01-12-2017 07:14 PM)Atlanta Man Wrote:  

Game Changer!

[Private Man]

(01-12-2017 07:14 PM)Atlanta Man Wrote:  

Game Changer! All the rednecks in Ft Lauderdale and all parts North Florida are rejoicing! Make South Florida America Again!!! Make Miami Great Again!!! MMGA!!! English is back in South Florida!

Eh, the Spanish/Latin-American influence is here to stay. Personally, I don't care.

[Duke Castile]

On twitter it's being said that the reason for this is because Cubans voted 53% for Trump.

[SamuelBRoberts]

Why do we need more Cubans in our country?
Why can't they stay in Cuba and make Cuba great again?

Wasn't the whole point of this policy an anti-Castro member, and Castro is dead now.
Why do we need it?

[JayMillz]

(01-12-2017 07:46 PM)Fisto Wrote:  

On twitter it's being said that the reason for this is because Cubans voted 53% for Trump.

I have a good friend who is a Cuban American and wanted this policy changed because of the welfare issue discussed by Rubio.

[JayMillz]

(01-12-2017 07:46 PM)Fisto Wrote:  

On twitter it's being said that the reason for this is because Cubans voted 53% for Trump.

Cuban-Americans Agree With Ending 'Wet Foot-Dry Foot' – If Returning Migrants Are Not Harassed

The "wet foot, dry foot" policy is over. For more than 20 years, Cubans migrating to the U.S. enjoyed that special privilege, which meant if they made it to dry land here they could stay. President Barack Obama ended it on Thursday– and even most Cubans here agree with him.

President Bill Clinton created the wet foot-dry foot policy in 1995 as a way to appease both the Cuban government and Cuban exile leaders. But since then it’s become a controversial rule that many Cuban-Americans say is antiquated now that the U.S. and Cuba have normalized relations.

“Wet foot, dry foot was really having the effect of creating an incentive for Cubans to take to the high seas and risk their lives or being trafficked over Central America to the Mexican border in order to make it to American shores," says Cuban-American attorney Ric Herrero, who heads #Cuba Now, a Miami organization that supports engagement with Cuba.

But Herrero says it’s just as important that Cuba’s communist government not harass migrants once they’re returned to the island.

http://wlrn.org/post/cuban-americans-agr...t-harassed

[JayMillz]

The US and Cuba planned to issue a joint statement later Thursday. The official insisted on anonymity in order to detail the change ahead of the announcement.

Obama is using an administrative rule change to end the policy. Donald Trump could undo that rule after becoming president next week. He has criticized Obama’s moves to improve relations with Cuba. But ending a policy that has allowed hundreds of thousands of people to come to the US without a visa also aligns with Trump’s commitment to tough immigration policies.

The official said that in recent years, most people fleeing the island have done so for economic reasons or to take advantage of the benefits they know they can receive if they make it to the US.

The Cuban Medical Professional Parole Program, which was started by President George W Bush in 2006, is also being rescinded. The measure allowed Cuban doctors, nurses and other medical professionals to seek parole in the US while on assignments abroad.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/j...t-dry-foot

[Going strong]

But does it mean that all illegal migrants from Cuba (coming by sea or land, doesn't matter anymore) will be turned away and sent back right away, or, contrarily, that all of them will have the right to submit a "refugee" demand and meanwhile, stay in the US?

I mean, it would make sense for Obama to disrupt and burden Florida, by enabling Cubans (coming by boat) to actually ask for asylum and as such, remain in the US while their file, data, and demands are processed by (leftist) judges...

I know that MSM present this last-moment Obama move as "bad-news" for Cuban migrants, but, I might interpret it differently: if Cubans coming by sea are "to be treated like all migrants", doesn't this mean that they will be processed on the US soil, until a (backlogged) tribunal approves or denies their asylum demand?

[JayMillz]

(01-12-2017 08:31 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

I mean, it would make sense for Obama to disrupt and burden Florida, by enabling (coming by boat) to actually ask for asylum and as such, remain in the US while their file, data, and demands are processed by (leftist) judges...

Not sure how that would make sense? But the press releases say Cubans will now be treated the same as other migrants.

[NilNisiOptimum]

(01-12-2017 07:06 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  

In a statement issued by the White House, Obama said that, effective immediately, Cuban migrants will now be treated “the same way we treat migrants from other countries.”

So, they'll be given in state college tuition, sanctuary cities and other federal benefits like so many illegal immigrants along the Mexican border? Sounds about right.

[komatiite]

[url=https://twitter.com/burgessev/status/819748298026323968][/url]

Wonder if Rubio is dangling his confirmation vote for Rex Tillerson to the Trump Administration in order to reverse this?

[lavidaloca]

Its actually a somewhat perplexing move by Obama. I'm still really unsure as to whether this is a good move or a bad move and to be quite frank it seems to me a political move where he appeases all the non Cubans in the US while pissing off the Cuban people.

In terms of tourism numbers the actual numbers of American tourists are still a drop in the bucket...By that I mean non-Cuban Americans. One thing that has certainly occurred is increasing investment in local businesses by Cuban Americans abroad particularly in the rental and food industries. The problem is the tourism numbers aren't growing remotely in line with the rental and food industries. The money is spreading wider and more Cubans are obtaining reasonable incomes via businesses rather than the few guys on top making a killing. This probably occurred in my opinion due both in part to the rapproach but also due to the lessening of restrictions on private enterprises amongst the Cuban people.

Having seen first hand the lack of change in Cuba tourism as a result of all his negotiating with Cuba. I.e. US tourism is still very low despite all the flights given to them. They are effectively a drop in the bucket when we are talking non Cuban Americans.

I was in Holguin about 5 weeks last year. I met one American and that was when I was in the hotels. I never met an American while I was in the city. My long term girlfriends friend works as what is essentially the equivalent to an escort here...like here there are variances in cost based on locational and appearance factors. I asked her about American tourism as she is in direct conversation with tourists on a daily basis from all over. Her words were that there are almost none in Holguin.

Havana is a people to people location so the raw numbers certainly increased there but Cuba has two tourisms. The first tourism is the people who stay in the hotels and go the mickey mouse route. That is probably upwards of 95% of non Cuban American tourism. The other 5% are people who are outside of hotels staying in Casa particulars, enjoying and taking in the local culture.

Lets say tourism went up 500k in the last year from 4 million to 4.5 million which seems a reasonable estimate. That means the people actually in the cities putting money in Cuban people outside of the cookie cutter hotel locations might have gone from 200,000 to 225,000. Honestly I go out rather regularly when I'm there and I'd have guessed tourism went down rather than up within the city. The difference that Obama's policy is making in the lives of ordinary Cubans not those privileged enough to work in the tourism industry is quite frankly negligible.

Just last year there were talks of booms of 5 million + American tourists going per year, what happened is far from that. The American and foreign tourists who go for history and go see Havana are going there once and crossing it off the bucket list.

I'm not sure really how Trump will play this because he knows what Obama did will probably appease a lot of latin voters while upsetting many Cuban voters. It's a bit risky in terms of alienating other latin voters if he retracts it and basically says Cubans still have priority. But if he doesn't do it he may be seen as retracting on his campaign promises to the Cuban Americans who helped elect him. If I'm Trump I don't touch it but go after the travel restrictions lifting / renegotiate for some modest concessions if possible and call it a day.

[lavidaloca]

(01-12-2017 07:47 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

Why do we need more Cubans in our country?
Why can't they stay in Cuba and make Cuba great again?

Wasn't the whole point of this policy an anti-Castro member, and Castro is dead now.
Why do we need it?

Raul Castro is per say the President but also the Party's First Secretary.

He has said he will be giving up the Presidency in 2018 but will remain atleast until 2021 as Party's First Secretary. The President of the United States isn't stupid. Hes going to be well aware of this. The average person on the ground though thinks Castros are gone in 2018 which is far from the case.

Effectively Raul will still be calling the shots until atleast 2021 though there will be a new face as President. (Likely Miguel Diaz-Canal who is also of the same breed and in his mid 50's) He was a big proponent for wide spread internet which has been a huge hit in Cuba. People fill up public parks where it is available and chat with family members from all over via IMO. That alone will make him very popular amongst the Cuban people if they stress the fact this was a change made per him. (Something I'd expect them to do)

[Fast Eddie]

I was shocked when I checked the news and saw Obama was doing this.

Make no mistake: this is a fantastic development for our side. Not all Cubans are created equal. The original, Republican leaning wave of Cubans are a bit analogous to white South Africans: a well off white minority in an otherwise "diverse" nation that was targeted by the ruling regime and dispossessed of its land and property. This is why they fled Cuba in the first place and why they hated the communist regime and all leftist political parties and movements.

The more recent waves of Cubans are far more "diverse" and are no different from any other third world economic migrants beating their way to American and European shores. They have no ideology and join the coalition of the fringes upon arrival along with all the other minorities. Again, they could be compared to black South African migrants arriving in America.

A truly terrifying spectre that raised its ugly head upon the death of Fidel Castro was the possibility that travel restrictions between Cuba and the USA would be lifted while the "wet food, dry foot" policy was kept in place. What this would have meant is that every Cuban who so desired would have been able to travel to the United States via aeroplane and claim legal residency and a direct pathway to citizenship upon setting foot on US soil, just like that.

This, of course, would have been an unmitigated disaster for our demographic balance on a national level, let alone concentrated in Florida, which is a state whose electoral votes we can ill afford to lose and expect to ever win the presidency again.

As to why Obama did the downright sane thing and ended the policy to reflect the easing of travel restrictions is a true mystery to me. It may well be the only beneficial action he took in his 8 years in office aside from the auto industry bailout.

[lavidaloca]

(01-13-2017 12:23 AM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  

I was shocked when I checked the news and saw Obama was doing this.

Make no mistake: this is a fantastic development for our side. Not all Cubans are created equal. The original, Republican leaning wave of Cubans are a bit analogous to white South Africans: a well off white minority in an otherwise "diverse" nation that was targeted by the ruling regime and dispossessed of its land and property. This is why they fled Cuba in the first place and why they hated the communist regime and all leftist political parties and movements.

The more recent waves of Cubans are far more "diverse" and are no different from any other third world economic migrants beating their way to American and European shores. They have no ideology and join the coalition of the fringes upon arrival along with all the other minorities. Again, they could be compared to black South African migrants arriving in America.

A truly terrifying spectre that raised its ugly head upon the death of Fidel Castro was the possibility that travel restrictions between Cuba and the USA would be lifted while the "wet food, dry foot" policy was kept in place. What this would have meant is that every Cuban who so desired would have been able to travel to the United States via aeroplane and claim legal residency and a direct pathway to citizenship upon setting foot on US soil, just like that.

This, of course, would have been an unmitigated disaster for our demographic balance on a national level, let alone concentrated in Florida, which is a state whose electoral votes we can ill afford to lose and expect to ever win the presidency again.

As to why Obama did the downright sane thing and ended the policy to reflect the easing of travel restrictions is a true mystery to me. It may well be the only beneficial action he took in his 8 years in office aside from the auto industry bailout.

I don't really see how that was a remote concern. Travel to the US by Cubans would still require a visa which for nearly every Cuban is a pipe dream to get unless they are going through the family reunification process which they can still do. Cubans require visa to travel to basic every first world country and to be frank most of the rest of the world. Basically the only highly sound economical places where a Cuban can travel without a visa are Russia and Singapore. Below is a complete list of countries in which Cubans can travel visa free...

http://www.havanatimes.org/?p=86115

The lifting of restrictions would've been on the US allowing it's citizens to travel to Cuba. No change was intended to occur on the opposite side.

A lot of people are still under the perception that the popular route for Cubans to arrive to the US is through "la lancha" or in other words by a boat.

The popular route is actually by travelling through other countries on land. That is how my friends have arrived to the US aside from those who were able to go because of family reunification.

[Fast Eddie]

(01-13-2017 12:31 AM)lavidaloca Wrote:  

(01-13-2017 12:23 AM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  

I was shocked when I checked the news and saw Obama was doing this.

Make no mistake: this is a fantastic development for our side. Not all Cubans are created equal. The original, Republican leaning wave of Cubans are a bit analogous to white South Africans: a well off white minority in an otherwise "diverse" nation that was targeted by the ruling regime and dispossessed of its land and property. This is why they fled Cuba in the first place and why they hated the communist regime and all leftist political parties and movements.

The more recent waves of Cubans are far more "diverse" and are no different from any other third world economic migrants beating their way to American and European shores. They have no ideology and join the coalition of the fringes upon arrival along with all the other minorities. Again, they could be compared to black South African migrants arriving in America.

A truly terrifying spectre that raised its ugly head upon the death of Fidel Castro was the possibility that travel restrictions between Cuba and the USA would be lifted while the "wet food, dry foot" policy was kept in place. What this would have meant is that every Cuban who so desired would have been able to travel to the United States via aeroplane and claim legal residency and a direct pathway to citizenship upon setting foot on US soil, just like that.

This, of course, would have been an unmitigated disaster for our demographic balance on a national level, let alone concentrated in Florida, which is a state whose electoral votes we can ill afford to lose and expect to ever win the presidency again.

As to why Obama did the downright sane thing and ended the policy to reflect the easing of travel restrictions is a true mystery to me. It may well be the only beneficial action he took in his 8 years in office aside from the auto industry bailout.

I don't really see how that was a remote concern. Travel to the US by Cubans would still require a visa which for nearly every Cuban is a pipe dream to get unless they are going through the family reunification process which they can still do. Cubans require visa to travel to basic every first world country and to be frank most of the rest of the world. Basically the only highly sound economical places where a Cuban can travel without a visa are Russia and Singapore. Below is a complete list of countries in which Cubans can travel visa free...

http://www.havanatimes.org/?p=86115

The lifting of restrictions would've been on the US allowing it's citizens to travel to Cuba. No change was intended to occur on the opposite side.

A lot of people are still under the perception that the popular route for Cubans to arrive to the US is through "la lancha" or in other words by a boat.

The popular route is actually by travelling through other countries on land. That is how my friends have arrived to the US aside from those who were able to go because of family reunification.

The only reasonable assumption is that as ties between the USA and Cuba improved, travel restrictions would eventually be improved in both directions. Just because today most Cubans make their way to the USA the long way via the Southern border doesn't mean the same would be true after the process of normalizing relations had been underway for some time.

It's for this very reason that ending the wet foot dry foot policy is the only logical thing to do: before you even start talking about easing travel for Cubans to the USA, you have to take away their ability to land a green card the moment they set foot on our shores.

[lavidaloca]

(01-13-2017 12:44 AM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  

(01-13-2017 12:31 AM)lavidaloca Wrote:  

(01-13-2017 12:23 AM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  

I was shocked when I checked the news and saw Obama was doing this.

Make no mistake: this is a fantastic development for our side. Not all Cubans are created equal. The original, Republican leaning wave of Cubans are a bit analogous to white South Africans: a well off white minority in an otherwise "diverse" nation that was targeted by the ruling regime and dispossessed of its land and property. This is why they fled Cuba in the first place and why they hated the communist regime and all leftist political parties and movements.

The more recent waves of Cubans are far more "diverse" and are no different from any other third world economic migrants beating their way to American and European shores. They have no ideology and join the coalition of the fringes upon arrival along with all the other minorities. Again, they could be compared to black South African migrants arriving in America.

A truly terrifying spectre that raised its ugly head upon the death of Fidel Castro was the possibility that travel restrictions between Cuba and the USA would be lifted while the "wet food, dry foot" policy was kept in place. What this would have meant is that every Cuban who so desired would have been able to travel to the United States via aeroplane and claim legal residency and a direct pathway to citizenship upon setting foot on US soil, just like that.

This, of course, would have been an unmitigated disaster for our demographic balance on a national level, let alone concentrated in Florida, which is a state whose electoral votes we can ill afford to lose and expect to ever win the presidency again.

As to why Obama did the downright sane thing and ended the policy to reflect the easing of travel restrictions is a true mystery to me. It may well be the only beneficial action he took in his 8 years in office aside from the auto industry bailout.

I don't really see how that was a remote concern. Travel to the US by Cubans would still require a visa which for nearly every Cuban is a pipe dream to get unless they are going through the family reunification process which they can still do. Cubans require visa to travel to basic every first world country and to be frank most of the rest of the world. Basically the only highly sound economical places where a Cuban can travel without a visa are Russia and Singapore. Below is a complete list of countries in which Cubans can travel visa free...

http://www.havanatimes.org/?p=86115

The lifting of restrictions would've been on the US allowing it's citizens to travel to Cuba. No change was intended to occur on the opposite side.

A lot of people are still under the perception that the popular route for Cubans to arrive to the US is through "la lancha" or in other words by a boat.

The popular route is actually by travelling through other countries on land. That is how my friends have arrived to the US aside from those who were able to go because of family reunification.

The only reasonable assumption is that as ties between the USA and Cuba improved, travel restrictions would eventually be improved in both directions. Just because today most Cubans make their way to the USA the long way via the Southern border doesn't mean the same would be true after the process of normalizing relations had been underway for some time.

It's for this very reason that ending the wet foot dry foot policy is the only logical thing to do: before you even start talking about easing travel for Cubans to the USA, you have to take away their ability to land a green card the moment they set foot on our shores.

The US isn't going to ease general travel restrictions. Cubans have similar if not the same general travel restrictions to the US that other other poor countries would have. What are they going to loosen? The visa requirements? I don't see it.

Canada has been a Cuban ally and friend for decades and for a Cuban to get a general tourism visa is next to impossible unless they are married with a Canadian or a direct relative from them lives in Canada. (i.e. their Dad or mom or son / daughter)

US isn't going to loosen that up and Cuba wouldn't even want them to. Cuba has a an aging population. 78 year old Alberto isn't going to the US where he has no health care. 22 year old Juan may very well want to go to make some money. Cuba wants more people working age rather than older people collecting rations and meager pensions.

The only argument for the position that Cuba would want the US to allow more of its citizens is in the hope that more remittances occur and long term these now young people will move back and spend their greenbacks in Cuba. That is a rather unlikely position.

Cuba hated the wet foot dry foot rule because the vast majority of people leaving were working age people. They are also suffering from an overly aging population due to the migration and familial trends.

One of the side effects of the removal of the wet foot dry foot policy will likely be the increase of sham marriages with US Cubans. It's already an industry and I've met several people who seemingly entered other countries via this process. I could see this being a big industry amongst the miami scammers who abused medicare, tax refunds etc.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

I'd prefer it if he had instead ended the same yet unofficial policy for Somalis.

[DannyAlberta]

(01-12-2017 07:06 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  

In a statement issued by the White House, Obama said that, effective immediately, Cuban migrants will now be treated “the same way we treat migrants from other countries.”

If so, I submit that any Cuban who wants to stay perpetually (and illegally) in the United States should no longer be trying to make it to Florida. Try to make it to Mexico, walk across the one of the gaping holes in the Southern border and become 1 of the ~11-30 million.

Trump has to build that wall for you guys and soon.

[JayMillz]

(01-12-2017 11:09 PM)NilNisiOptimum Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 07:06 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  

In a statement issued by the White House, Obama said that, effective immediately, Cuban migrants will now be treated “the same way we treat migrants from other countries.”

So, they'll be given in state college tuition, sanctuary cities and other federal benefits like so many illegal immigrants along the Mexican border? Sounds about right.

The Cubans didn't need sanctuary cities because they were given automatic citizenship under the former policy. In addition, they qualified for welfare as a result and were abusing that system. If you watch the testimony by Rubio he talks about this.

I don't think Gov Rick Scott would grant them any type of state tuition or reduced costs. More importantly they will probably be repatriated like the Haitians now that they don't have special status.

[JayMillz]

(01-13-2017 12:55 PM)DannyAlberta Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 07:06 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  

In a statement issued by the White House, Obama said that, effective immediately, Cuban migrants will now be treated “the same way we treat migrants from other countries.”

If so, I submit that any Cuban who wants to stay perpetually (and illegally) in the United States should no longer be trying to make it to Florida. Try to make it to Mexico, walk across the one of the gaping holes in the Southern border and become 1 of the ~11-30 million.

Trump has to build that wall for you guys and soon.

This is a legitimate concern. I'm waiting to see how this will proceed. The President of Mexico has already said he isn't paying for a wall so it should be interesting.

[PapayaTapper]

Cuba will be great again but it will be the descendants of the Cubans who fled during and right after Castros takeover living in the US that will make it so. Unlike subsequent migrations (like the 1980 Mariel boatlift when Castro shit on the US and pissed in Jimmy Carter's face) that first wave (like my parents) were the highly educated, highly motivated, wealthy, elite land owners who were the most at risk during the political purges that ensued...and lost the most because of it.

My ancestors (both maternal and paternal) emigrated to Cuba from Spain in the 19th Century when it was pretty much to Spain like the American west was to the US. My mothers family owned a lot of land including an approximate 3 mi of beachfront on the northern shore in Pinar del Rio province. My grandfather exported sugar, beef, pork tobacco and even minerals from a mine he owned. I was born in Miami and grew up hearing all the stories. Castro destroyed what Cuba could have become for my parents' generation...but thats not been forgotten

But don't underestimate the old school Cubans (and descendants) who've been building wealth and power in FL, Spain, Puerto Rico, etc.... biding their time...

There's a number reasons FL went to Trump not the least of which is the very conservative old school Cuban power base there.

This policy change in my opinion is a good step. The current Cuban population is so indoctrinated in the only (fucked up) system they've ever known so they don't have the skill set necessary to "right the ship" when the time comes (and it will come). So good......America is on it's way to being great again,... then it will be Cuba's turn... But it wont be powered by Cubans staying put as much as it will be the when money, talent, and values start flowing back there. Cuba was great and will be again. It's just a matter of time

[JayMillz]

(01-13-2017 12:55 PM)DannyAlberta Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 07:06 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  

In a statement issued by the White House, Obama said that, effective immediately, Cuban migrants will now be treated “the same way we treat migrants from other countries.”

If so, I submit that any Cuban who wants to stay perpetually (and illegally) in the United States should no longer be trying to make it to Florida. Try to make it to Mexico, walk across the one of the gaping holes in the Southern border and become 1 of the ~11-30 million.

Trump has to build that wall for you guys and soon.

I'm watching the news and Cubans in Costa Rica that were making their way to the USA were saying they are disappointed by the change so maybe it will be a deterrent. Under the old system they would have gotten Automatic Citizenship and welfare.