[Mig Picante]

Hey man, I admire your persistence and attitude toward improvement and have been reading for a week or so.

I don't have anything to really add, except it seems like you're too nice. Move towards the more meaningful comments reather than surface level convo. You're already there!
The guys that interrupted you with birthday girl. Forget about them, from what you wrote it's like you returned to them and I'm not sure why?

[Corollary]

(01-20-2017 06:21 AM)Mig Picante Wrote:  

Hey man, I admire your persistence and attitude toward improvement and have been reading for a week or so.

I don't have anything to really add, except it seems like you're too nice. Move towards the more meaningful comments reather than surface level convo. You're already there!
The guys that interrupted you with birthday girl. Forget about them, from what you wrote it's like you returned to them and I'm not sure why?

Thanks for reading. Yeah, I do need to work on having more meaningful conversations. I feel like my comfort zone has been expanded to the point where they are easy to have (when I first started they weren't), but obviously my goal is to go much further than that, so I need to keep pushing.

As for that situation, I took birthday girl to a couch and we started talking. After a while, she started to worry about her friend because she hadn't joined us yet, so she went outside to grab her. As soon as she got up, the guys appear. The girls then came into the bar and went to the bathroom. When they got out, they see the guys on the couch and seem put-off, so they go back outside.

In hindsight, I should have gotten up and left right then, but I kept talking to the guys for a few minutes before I went outside again.

[Corollary]

No, I didn't give up. I went out Friday, Saturday, and tonight. I just didn't think there was anything noteworthy to post here though.

I feel like I'm making very slow progress when things could be moving along much faster. I know what I need to do; I'm just having trouble doing it. But I know that negativity is the one thing that will make me give up, so I have to stay positive. Slow progress is better than no progress.

Here are some positive things from the weekend:

I found a great venue close to my place. It was bigger and had more people than the typical venues I go to. It even had an acceptable ratio.

I finally witnessed a guy who appeared to be out just to run game. He was targeting girls who were momentarily separated from their groups. I watched as the girls started off reluctant and as he kept talking they started to open up more to him. He would then get their numbers after a couple of minutes of talking.

I stopped a girl walking with her friend. I could tell she didn't want to talk to me at all, but she still gave me just enough attention to work with. Nothing happened, but I know that a little bit of attention is all it takes to make something happen.

I watched people dance on the dance floor, and I noticed that most of them can't actually dance. It's amazing how few people have their feet stuck to the ground. It made me feel less self-conscious, and I was able to get out on the dance floor and dance for quite some time.

[Corollary]

I've been trying out new places so far this week, and they've been dead. Conversations with the bartenders and people standing next to me to order are all I could get. I'll probably go back to my usual spots tonight.

Since I've been going out, my work has suffered because I've had the urge to just sleep all day. To combat this, I decided to go to a college campus to work in the library. Not only did I actually get some work done, but I saw hundreds, if not thousands, of hot, young women. It's a stark contrast to seeing a handful of hotties at night.

I started to get mad at myself for missing a huge opportunity in college.

Needless to say, I'll be working on college campuses more often.

[Corollary]

Tonight was fun.

I get to the bar and the bartender I know immediately recognizes me and high fives me. She then introduces me to another bartender and goes to make me a drink even though I didn't ask.

I was able to chat up several people (including girls). It's easy for me to say something situational, but I'm still hesitant when it comes to talking just for the sake of talking. At least know what I need to work on. Conversations are still a mystery in places like that though because it's so hard to understand what others are saying.

There was a dance battle going on that added so much energy into the bar. One dude was flipping random bitches on the dance floor. I want to try that one day.

The highlight of my night was when some girl thought she lost her phone and asked me if I had seen it. I look down and see it in her waistband and laugh. She gives me a long hug and thanks me for telling her, but it probably would have been funnier to hold off telling her for a while.

[Corollary]

Another good night.

On my way to the bar, I see a girl wearing a birthday sash, so I completely change directions to go tell her happy birthday. When I do, she and her friends were immediately receptive. Three Mexican girls: one was fat and two (include the birthday girl) were cute.

We talk for a minute and we all decide to go to a bar together.

Before we leave, I was talking to the other two girls and some guy comes over I tells the birthday girl while being extremely physical with her. His move is proof that I have a ton of room to be more aggressive. He eventually leaves though, and we go to the bar.

I get separated from them for a while because the bar splits the men and women lines, but I eventually saw them on the dance floor some time later. I dance around them, but not with them. This was my biggest failing. My lack of sexual confidence revealed itself here.

They were completely comfortable with my presence, and they even rejected a few guys on the dance floor and used me as an escape.

After over an hour in the first bar, I tell them I'm going elsewhere, and they were eager to join.

When we got to the second bar, I didn't feel like dancing anymore, so they went off to the dance floor while I sat at the bar. A little bit of chatting at the bar, but nothing noteworthy.

I did overhear a couple talking next to me though. The girl said how she wants to choke on the guy's dick and swallow everything. As soon as the guy heard that, he put on his jacket, closed his tab, and took her out. I felt like a kid watching Lebron James thinking "that will be me one day."

Shortly after that, I get the number of one of the girls and leave.

----

In some ways good nights leave me more disappointed than bad nights. I can clearly see all the missed opportunities when things are going well.

So it's obvious I had a huge opportunity here, but I'm going to focus on the positive. I was able to open with no hesitation and lead a group of girls around. It hasn't even been a month, yet it still feels like good progress.

[Mig Picante]

(01-27-2017 05:01 AM)Corollary Wrote:  

The highlight of my night was when some girl thought she lost her phone and asked me if I had seen it. I look down and see it in her waistband and laugh. She gives me a long hug and thanks me for telling her, but it probably would have been funnier to hold off telling her for a while.

I hope you GOT HER NUMBER !

[Alche]

While positive reinforcement is good as it helps you progress.. don't let it limit you to just baby steps.

I said this to you before but I will say it again. You can do everything you want right now. Really you can. If you wanted to seduce that girl, how would you do it? If you can visualize it, then you can. If you can't, you need to work on creating more space in your mind. I suggest 10 minutes of daily meditation.

Before you go out next time, think about this. If you wanted to be magnetic, confident, attractive, funny. How would you need to walk, talk, move and behave. Visualize it.. then go out and do it. Don't over think it. Start the night with talking to the first person you see and remember these things.

[Corollary]

(01-29-2017 02:01 AM)Mig Picante Wrote:  

(01-27-2017 05:01 AM)Corollary Wrote:  

The highlight of my night was when some girl thought she lost her phone and asked me if I had seen it. I look down and see it in her waistband and laugh. She gives me a long hug and thanks me for telling her, but it probably would have been funnier to hold off telling her for a while.

I hope you GOT HER NUMBER !

She was fat. Although I'm not opposed to practicing on girls I don't like in the future. It would probably help my progress.

(01-29-2017 05:32 AM)Alche Wrote:  

While positive reinforcement is good as it helps you progress.. don't let it limit you to just baby steps.

I said this to you before but I will say it again. You can do everything you want right now. Really you can. If you wanted to seduce that girl, how would you do it? If you can visualize it, then you can. If you can't, you need to work on creating more space in your mind. I suggest 10 minutes of daily meditation.

Before you go out next time, think about this. If you wanted to be magnetic, confident, attractive, funny. How would you need to walk, talk, move and behave. Visualize it.. then go out and do it. Don't over think it. Start the night with talking to the first person you see and remember these things.

This is great advice. I actually tried something like this before, but I didn't get any results because I didn't take any action. Now that I'm out there doing things, I've let the pendulum swing too far to the other side. A combination of both is what I need, so I'll start working on what you suggest along with other things.

[Corollary]

After what happened last night, I'm going to focus more on the dance floor on busy nights. Dancing in some ways in an expression of sexuality, so if I can become comfortable dancing with women, I'll be much better off.

I spent my entire night on the dance floor. No, I didn't dance with any girls, but I made eye contact with plenty, and I'm sure a couple of them wanted to dance with me. One girl was dancing with two guys and was eyeing me the whole time from across the dance floor. She managed to maneuver her way next to me. The guys she was with didn't dance directly with her. I saw a bit of myself in those two guys.

I've danced more in the past week than in the past four years of me being sober. Maybe even in my entire life.

[Corollary]

Went to a new place to check it out last night.

On the way I started talking to a fat girl who was going to meet her friend. Her demeanor suggested she wasn't into me, but she walked with me until she met up with her friend. My mistake was not getting introduced to her friend. She had to go in a different direction to meet her friend, so I never got to see what she looked like.

The other interactions I had aren't worth mentioning.

This morning I went to a college campus and didn't do anything. It's a much different environment than a bar district, so I'll need to get used to it. There are definitely endless opportunities there though.

And I signed up for a bachata class that will be starting next week. As of right now, I don't go to any places that play that type of music, but I think it will be useful for general dancing skills and meeting new people.

[Corollary]

I went to a particular bar tonight because it had the best DJ I've heard so far playing tonight. Unlike most DJs who seem like they're just playing their personal playlist, this one actually pays attention to the mood of the venue and matches the music to the people. I'd still be there right now if he didn't switch from hip hop to Latin partner music.

I was able to go out every night in January. Overall, I'm happy with my results, but disappointed with my effort. In one month, I think I was able to interact with more people in my life that weren't around because of a social circle, a hobby, or work. I was able to get numbers from girls the same night I met them. And I'm completely comfortable in a night venues.

For February, I'll continue going out every night. I'm going to focus on inner game and putting more effort into each night this month.

---

One weird observation at the bar tonight: when I arrived, the bar only had a large mixed group of 15-20 people there that all knew each other. They were spread out all over the small bar, dancing and having fun. But once other people started showing up and the place started getting hype, this large group managed to collapse into one corner. It was interesting to watch them go from owning the bar to being stuck in one corner. I would have thought that after all the alcohol and dancing nothing would intimidate them.

[Corollary]

I got another number tonight.

At the venue, I was waiting in a line. Two girls get in line behind me, and I hesitate for a minute before saying something. Once I start talking to them, they're receptive but they weren't the high energy types so it was hard for me to keep the conversation going. After we get out of line, we separate. About 30 minutes later, one of the girls approaches me and we have a slightly longer conversation. But just like the first time, it was hard for me to keep the conversation going, and I was competing against something going on in the venue so we separated again. I finally saw them one last time before I left and was able to get one of their numbers.

There was a group of three cute girls standing near the dance floor who looked like they were deliberating whether they should go on or not. I wanted to approach but the courage wasn't there in the moment. Just as I was about to go up to them, another guy approaches them. It was funny because one guy did all the work of opening the girls, and then his friend came in later only once the girls were receptive. Things seemed to be going well for a minute or so but then things died down and the guys ejected. I guess they had the same problem as me.

In other news, a cute girl recently reappeared in my social circle. I had first saw her about a year ago, but I never got a chance to talk to her. I started talking to her yesterday, and I talked to her again today. Judging by how she acts around other guys, I can tell she's really into me because she's very bubbly with me but not the other guys. If I have an opportunity with her, I'm going to take it.

[Corollary]

It feels like I'm getting sick, and I'm starting to lose my voice. Also, I tore my hand at the gym, so I'm constantly thinking about how it feels. Those two things seemed like they would get in the way, but they didn't, at least not a first.

I'm sure tonight is a record for the number of different interactions I had (six) but I haven't always kept detailed logs up to this point.

Nothing worth mentioning except for one I thought was funny. I was on the dance floor, and I overheard a guy talking to a blonde next to me. She tells him it's her birthday and she's poor, and then she asks him to buy her a shot. This guy was smart though and didn't give in.

After he left, I say something to her:

C: "Is it really your birthday today?"
BG: "Yes, it is!"
C: "Happy birthday!"
BG: "Can you buy me a shot?"
C: "No!!! Nice try though."
BG: "It really is my birthday, bitch."

I just laughed in her face and she looked disappointed and walked off. I later saw her pretty much baiting guys into talking to her. I wonder if she was able to get any of them to buy her a shot.

Losing my voice was annoying because out of all the places I go to, this one was among the loudest. Eventually I started thinking about my voice and my hand too much and decided to leave.

One thing I noticed about that place is a lot of guys approach there. Most of the other places I go to I haven't noticed many. I actually like the increased competition, so I'll be going back to that spot more often.

[Corollary]

An update.

My voice has only gotten worse since Friday. I had mild symptoms of a cold for a couple of days, and my voice is by far the worst part. Still, I didn't let that stop me from going out and breaking the streak, but I've been limited in what I can do.

Tonight I went to a loud live music venue and was able to talk to a couple of girls, but it was extremely difficult with my voice the way it is right now, so nothing came from them.

I also ran into a girl I've known for years for the third time in the past couple of weeks. I've been running into a few people I know while out, which is expected, but it sucks because I end up talking to them for too long and lose focus on the whole point of me being out.

[Corollary]

Tonight I realized my ability to open is getting better. I didn't realize it before because my frustration levels were the same but for different reasons. Instead of not being able to talk to any girls without extremely favorable situations, I can now start conversations with girls in more difficult situations. So I've moved on to a new problem.

If I open a girl, one of two things happen: she doesn't respond much to what I say and I bail or she does and gets interested but I don't know where to take the interaction. The latter happened twice to me tonight, and I didn't approach any other girls because I was in my head at that point. It doesn't help that my voice hasn't completely recovered yet.

I'll take the positive of a moving sticking point though.

I'm also actively looking for guys who are into game as well. I think my progress would be hastened if I found guys to go out with.

[torridon747]

Good job not buying that sloot a shot. Happy to read your progress

[Corollary]

Last night was the first night I went to a megaclub in the month and a half I've been going out.

I was able to finally meet up with a guy I know who goes out. We talked a bit about the process of learning over dinner, and he invited me to the club with him. Having someone to go with was a much different experience because I had someone there who could push me to open.

While at the club, I talked to between seven and ten girls. With so many interactions, most of which were longer than my typical interactions, it's hard for me to remember all of them. I'll think harder about each one as I write in my personal log.

Talking to girls in that environment was definitely different. For one, there were an endless number to choose from. Second, there was just so much more to compete against, so getting their attention was a little harder.

The guy I was with was able to give me some pointers. The biggest problem for me at the beginning was rejecting myself by ejecting too early. I was quickly able to adjust to a point where the girls were rejecting me. It's nice to be rejected after all this time ejecting.

One huge benefit of going out with him, and seeing his friends there, was I got to see how other guys do this. I realized it's a much messier process than I imagined, at least in that environment. A lot of their interactions didn't go anywhere, but they persisted. I also got to see guys pull girls out of the club.

Out of all the nights I've gone out, I feel like I've learned the most this one. Hopefully I can take the lessons from this night and apply them to all my nights going forward.

[Corollary]

My voice still hasn't completely recovered. It's not so bad to where I can't talk at all, but if I talk too much I start to lose it. So I'm now I'm in voice management mode because I use my voice for my work, and I don't want to strain it too much.

Here's what happened since my last update:

Saturday I went out with friends, so I already knew much wouldn't happen. I still managed to approach one Ethiopian-looking chick as she entered the bar I was at. We had a good interaction as she ordered her drink, but after she left to meet up with her friends.

Sunday was an extremely lazy day for me. Other than a short workout at the gym, I was in bed all day. This didn't translate to a good mood when I needed to go out, but I still went out just to keep the habit going. I intended to go to a particular bar, but when I got their they had a live rapper, and I didn't want to stay to listen to him. So I walked around the bar district looking for any easy opportunities but didn't find them.

Tonight I went to another club. I managed two approaches, one of which went well but was early in the night before the club was even half packed. I hoped to run into them again to reopen, but I didn't see them again, and I wasn't going to search for them. I ended up leaving early to minimize the strain on my voice.

This week I'll probably go to more clubs to check them out. I hope my voice improves soon so I can talk my ass off again.

[Corollary]

One of the biggest problems I had before going into this, and the main problem I want to solve, is having the balls to set the intention of going after a girl. Growing up, my friends would always say how they were going to fuck a certain girl. A lot of the times they didn't, but they did enough times. I never thought that way even with girls who were into me, and that's what I mostly want to develop, because I have enough girls who show up in my life who are interested in me. If I can capitalize on those opportunities, I'd be satisfied, at least initially.

I noticed myself thinking about how I'm going to fuck two girls in my social circle. My thoughts have shifted from "I would like to fuck her," which are the useless thoughts I've always had to "I'm going to fuck her. How can I make it happen?" This is exactly what I want, and I need to cultivate the mindset more.

----

I decided to take a break from going out. I've been getting too attached to my ability to do things every day, so I'm going to intentionally break all my habits. Lately, I found myself just showing up in all areas of my life. Showing up is great, but after a while the focus needs to shift to what gets done, not simply being there. I'm going to take a week off from all the things I usually do, the biggest three being work, gym, and going out. I'm going to do some things I don't usually do and reflect on my goals and how I'm going to handle them going forward.

I've proven to myself that I can show up, so now I need to prove to myself that I can squeeze the most out of every instance of showing up. When I return to going out and the other things in my life, I'll probably do them for only a few days a week until I feel like I'm getting the most out of each day. Only then will I go back to doing things every day.

I know a couple of guys who go out all the time, so when I return, I'll be able to join them as often as I'd like.

[Corollary]

To update this thread, I'll post a couple of experiences I've had in the past week.

Last Saturday, I went to a bar to celebrate a female friend's birthday. She's a good friend because she always thinks about finding new girls for me to meet. These girls aren't the highest quality, but many of them are good enough. I never got anywhere with any of them though because of the problem I mentioned in the first post of this thread.

Four decent girls were there. Let's call them Midget Girl, MILF, Photogenic Girl, and The Mexican.

I met all but Midget Girl before.

Photogenic Girl was by far the best looking. I call her that because she looks amazing in pictures, but in person, she's just another cute girl.

I met The Mexican at the same time as Photogenic Girl. I didn't get to talk to her much during our first meet because I was talking to some other girl who was much more into me at the time, but when I did talk to The Mexican, I found her easy to talk to.

MILF is younger than me but she has three kids and she's single.

Midget Girl is the shortest girl I've ever talked to in my life. Unfortunately, she's a bit chubby. I couldn't tell exactly how chubby because of the dress she was wearing. She also didn't drink any alcohol at all. I don't know why though because she didn't drive there and she wasn't a nondrinker like me.

The first girl I see that night was Midget Girl. Since she was the only girl there other than the birthday girl, I immediately started chatting her up. I could tell that she was warming up to me quickly. The more I talked to her, the more I wondered if I could take her home with me that night.

Later, Photogenic Girl and The Mexican arrive. Because of our interaction last time, I was hoping things could pick up where they left off last time with The Mexican. I was wrong. She wasn't warm to me at all. With her reaction, it put me off from interacting with Photogenic Girl. So I didn't say much to her initially.

The MILF arrives last, but she's not important at all to this recap until the end.

I keep chatting with Midget Girl, and I try to get her to go to the dance floor with me. She says she doesn't dance. I chat with her more, ask again, and she denies me again. I chat with her more and then ask her to dance with me at the table. This she does. After, I try getting her to the dance floor again, but she declines. So I chat with her some more and ask again, and then finally agrees to go to the dance floor. The dance was awkward because she was so short, but I was happy I was able to get her to go with me.

As we get back to the table, it's easier for me to touch her because I led her to the dance floor by her hand and I walked her back to the table with my arm around her shoulders.

At this point, I'm thinking I could attempt to take her home with me. She didn't drive there, so in our conversation, I bring up how I could take her home. She declines because she thought it would be too much of a hassle for me and she had someone who could pick her up. This stumps me.

Later, I start talking to Photogenic Girl, and she's warming up to me. She enthusiastically agrees to be my partner in a beer pong game (she agreed to drink all the beer). This fucked me up because now I'm thinking about who I should choose. Do I go with the chubby girl I did all the work on, or the hotter one who is now starting to give me attention?

The beer pong game was more of the same. She got warmer as time went on. In this case, I didn't have to do anything, so I'm guessing the alcohol was a factor.

Once the game is over, I find out half of our group went to another bar. So I get the remaining people to go to the same bar.

There, it's much higher energy. It's like a mini-club. All the girls are on the dance floor, and I find myself splitting my attention between Midget Girl and Photogenic Girl. Having a choice caused me not to commit to either one.

Eventually, Photogenic Girl and The Mexican leave. Around the same time, Midget Girl is starting to annoy me more and more. When I was leading the conversation, everything was fine, but now I wasn't directing things as much, and she was just running her mouth.

This is when I turn my attention to the MILF. She's one of the those girls who gives off the vibe that she loves black guys. It wouldn't surprise me if her baby daddy(ies) were black.

So I don't have to do anything with her because she has always been into me. I never cared about her because of the three kids at a young age.

I just dance with her and eventually the group decides they want to go to eat.

I manage to get the Midget Girl to go with me in my car, but like I said, I was getting more and more annoyed with her.

So when we get to the restaurant, I focus more on talking to the MILF and ignore Midget Girl.

Eventually Midget Girl has someone pick her up. I don't even bother to get her number.

While MILF and her friend are paying at the register, I chat up two girls sitting down by the door. They humor me, but they clearly weren't interested.

After that I say goodbye to MILF and her friend, and I go home alone numberless. (actually, I ran into a cute girl I know who goes out all the time. I got her number so we could ostensibly party together. She has shown interest in me in the past.)

Lessons for the night were:

Commit to one girl. The thought of multiple options caused indecision on my part, and I ended up with nothing.

Always lead the conversation. I find girls to be extremely pleasant to be around when I'm directing the conversation. But, I find girls to be extremely annoying when they have no direction from me or someone else. This has been a problem for me in the past, but writing down this recap has made me realize the solution is to lead more.

On the positive side, the old me would have never though about possibly taking a girl home. A mindset shift is the main thing I'm going for with all this, because I do have 'enough' girls who enter my life and end up attracted to me. I just need to capitalize on those opportunities.

----

The other situation involves one of the girls from my social circle that I mentioned in the last post. She's actually one of the girls in the bachata class I'm taking.

She's cute and slim. She looks a little worse up close because of her skin, but it's not a huge deal to me.

I managed to talk to her in the class last week. She's very reserved, but I could tell she's into me based on how she looks at me, the questions she asks me, and the compliments she gives me.

I want to get her to my place to practice the dance more and possibly do other things. I've been seeding the idea by saying that I need a partner to practice with.

I've been unable to pull the trigger though. We don't have much time to talk during the class, and she's the first one out the door when it ends, but those are just excuses. I just need to ask for the sale.

----

I'll be going out tomorrow but with friends. Two of the girls like me, but I'm not risking pursing them because I see them all the time.

When I go back to going out next week, I won't be going out every night until I feel like I'm able to put more effort into a single night out. Going out every night is a good experience, but if I'm not out there pushing every night, then being tired the next day isn't worth it.

[Harami]

Bluntly speaking because the mood is such. So what's the point of all this? Are you getting laid, are you even closing? The first post I read, you seemed like an entertainer, not a player.

[torridon747]

He's trying. I respect the fuck out of this guy he's the opposite of a natural yet he goes out many times a weak trying to better his skills; readily posting a log of what he does and accepting of any advice that comes his way.

What's the point of you on this forum? You post stupid threads about your garbage game and when a vetted player comes in and gives you advice you have a non-sequitur melt down. If you had half the heart of ol' Corollary you wouldn't be such an insufferable cunt.

@Corollary. You need to take some more risks man. Start with Kino. I have a strong feeling your presence with these girls is pretty bad and they consider you a tag-a-long male friend. Start showing sexual interest, get rejected, and do it again and again until rejection no longer even solicits an emotion.

Midget girl not down when you stare in here eyes, show sexual body language and go for some light kino? Fuck her, move on to photogenic girl (with some poise of course).

Photogenic girl not down when you grab her hand after some light conversation and lead her to the dance floor. Fuck her, go to milf girl you know she takes dick for sure.

Group ostracizes you for being a thirsty dickhead? Fuuuuck em. You know what's worse? Hanging around and becoming the involuntarily celibate orbiter male friend.

You know how you notice the interest of these females waxes and wanes. That's probably because somewhere in the middle you should have made a move. Be a little more aggressive

I've been following your thread, keep up the good work. These things don't come instantly you have to reshape how you process these situations. You got mad heart and drive man, if I had half your persistence I would be a happy guy. If you lived near me I would come out with you and wing.

[Harami]

One word: Learning
One line : because fk u that's why
One sentence: my situation is similar to corollary even though mildly, maybe even 0.1% similar but it is. So I just had to ask. I wasn't hating on him, you are straight up hating on me and that's cool but it's not my place to return the love.

[Corollary]

Thanks for the support Eugenics.

I agree that I need to take more risks. That's what has frustrated me the most: I feel like going every night isn't worth it if I'm not pushing myself.

But like I said in my last post, my mindset is slowly changing for the better. I wouldn't have even though about trying to get Midget Girl home in the past, but my thoughts naturally went there once I realized she was into me.