[Sam Malone]

(01-08-2017 08:36 AM)realologist Wrote:  

So you have a girl that's only had sex in a bed..

The goal is to build the sexual tension. When that sexual tension is high you can get chicks to cum very quickly as long as you provide familiarity (you) and variety(some change).

Plenty of women have banged in a bed, and maybe the couch. And I'd guess for most of them, that's the extent of their 'location' variety.

So mix it up.

Make it memorable.

Sexual positions, yes, but I'm talking more about locations.

A kitchen chair, the countertop, coffee table, bathroom sink, desk, washer/dryer, the list goes on and on.

Don't ask her if she's "ever done it on _____ ?". Just do it. Unless she's a raging sloot, odds are gonna be in your favor that you're the first time she's ever done it on ____.

I've got a pool table in my basement, the three women (so far) I banged on it said they'd never done it on a pool table before. One complained afterward about how her back hurt from laying on the side rail.. Afterward she complained.. didn't make a peep about it during.

You bang a woman in/on a new place/item, she'll never look at that place/item the same way again without thinking about how she got plowed by you on it.

[Phoenix]

^But if its the first time with you, it's inherently 'mixed up a bit' because you're new right? Also it doesn't apply to the girls with low or nil sexual experience, who don't come either.

(01-08-2017 08:36 AM)realologist Wrote:  

The goal is to build the sexual tension. When that sexual tension is high you can get chicks to cum very quickly as long as you provide familiarity (you) and variety(some change).

Interesting. On evaluation, I really do not build sexual tension at all. Only the bare minimum required, as I've always been primarily concerned with pushing the girl 'through the process' to get intimate with her as soon as possible. This focus I guess has stemmed from the Australian Hell I endured. But that programmed 'desperate compulsion' has subsided, and the importance of any given lay has become a fraction of what it was. So I will try working on this higher level of sexual tension building.

Could you provide some examples of how I would transition, for example, from comfortable conversation (where I'm building rapport etc) into something building sexual tension, and back? Or from attractive talk (stories/ideas and so on) into it? At most I'll do a bit of touching. I've done stuff before like surreptitiously rubbing her inner thigh whilst talking about something else altogether, but I usually avoid that as it seems higher risk of 'doing it too early and scaring her off'. But I'm guessing that stuff is along the right lines, right?

Currently I'm following the rule of 'kiss her soon after she enters your apartment, and not before', since this increases the chance of her coming back due to her having plausible deniability (we are just going to watch a movie), and avoids diffusing the tension until it can be released conducive to progressing to sex. Then after that I just persevere though the rest of the steps (which can either be instant or lengthy depending on the girl). I don't attempt to do anything else to build sexual tension (other than is created when slowly breaking down her resistance if she puts it up) until she is naked and I'm doing foreplay.

Should I be doing the steps between the first kiss and the foreplay in a much more tension-building manner? About how long is this stage for you guys, in the case where there is no resistance (e.g. she's a girl you're already with)?

(01-08-2017 11:28 AM)questor70 Wrote:  

If I write more than this it will be well into TL;DR territory, but generally speaking guys want to go too rough and too fast, since that's what they're used to from spanking the monkey.

Feel free to TL; I will read

(01-08-2017 11:28 AM)questor70 Wrote:  

What works for me is to err on the side of being slower, gentler, maintain more sensual touch and kissing, more full body contact, shallower thrusts with more pelvic-bone on pelvic-bone mashing. And most of all, you have to become a jedi at evaluating her body language while not becoming so focused on her that you lose your own arousal.

When I read this, I think two things: she won't come without the stimulation of vigorous banging (even the girls who made themselves come wanted vigorous banging), and she will get bored. Could you perhaps talk about this more, more detail etc, to dispel this? Is there are lot of talking involved? Is it done in pitch black or with light?

[Sam Malone]

(01-08-2017 12:30 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  

^But if its the first time with you, it's inherently 'mixed up a bit' because you're new right? Also it doesn't apply to the girls with low or nil sexual experience, who don't come either.

True. But you're also playing up to her '50 Shades' type fantasy.

A better analogy might be the chick with the smokin' body, you get her home and find out her head skills are on point. So good you blasted down her throat. First time you ever nutted from a BJ.

You didn't expect it, but it heightened the experience and made her memorable.

Meet a woman and take her home/her place. She (and you) are already geared up for a smash session. The random bang location heightens the excitement.

Kind of like when a woman goes shopping and sees the purse/outfit/whatever she wants (on sale for half price). She gets to the register and finds out that she can also use that 25% off coupon on TOP of the sale price. She was already excited to buy the item at 50% off, the coupon made that buy 10x better.

That purse she bought ? She'd have been happy with getting it for $100 (half off). And might tell her friends it was half price. End of story.

But that coupon ? She'll talk about being able to use that coupon to anyone that'll listen. Getting that $200 purse for $75 because it was originally half off, but then she was able to use her coupon, she didn't know that when she picked up the purse, the woman behind the counter asked if she had any coupons, she did but the item was on sale, the woman behind the counter told her she can still use the coupon, etc.

The caption on her Insta/Snapchat will read: "OMG I got this $200 purse for $75 !! Hashtag Kohl's Coupons !! Best Day Ever !!"

It's already exciting because it's new. The coupon made the experience that much more satisfying and memorable.

Same idea with the bang location.

[questor70]

(01-08-2017 12:30 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  

When I read this, I think two things: she won't come without the stimulation of vigorous banging

You've got to understand that what a woman thinks will get her off and what actually works are two different things. Since women don't want to have to coach their guys they gravitate towards whatever manages to work well enough while staying roughly within a guy's limited repertoire (emphasis on limited).

So, let's say you're with a woman, and she resorts to asking for "vigorous banging". Don't comply. Tell her to trust you and do it your way and you will likely open her up to a whole new level of pleasure. I mean, there's no more alpha move than to take control like this. It shows that you understand her body even more than she does. It's a mindblowing thing for her because she long resigned herself to selfish lovers who do the bare minimum. If she gets bored, you're just doing it wrong.

To be more specific, the reason she thinks she needs vigorous banging is that on the downstroke you hit her clit, but for the rest of the stroke her clit is just sitting there unstimulated. Meanwhile, her vagina barely feels anything. Guys falsely assume that women must feel the same thing inside that their penis does. They don't. It's a cruel trick of nature, but it is what it is. The "vigorousness" is there to make up for the lack of contact on the rest of the stroke. It can work but it's still a compromise that they've fallen into.

If you watch any porn, study how women play with themselves. The bread and butter stimulation is constant rubbing, either up-down or circular. Penetration when they are masturbating is more of a side-dish. If they have a dildo they are not generally sliding it in and out constantly. A lot of the time it's either just sitting there motionless or not even inside them.

When you go slow and steady, pretty much pressed up against her, it's actually more stimulating for her than it is for you. It might take her longer than it would if you were to use your fingers alone, but she's still moving up the ladder faster than you are. When she gets close, then you switch to "vigorous banging" which you're pretty much going to need. The end result is a great likelihood of both cumming simultaneously. If that happens, odds are it will be the first time in her entire life and you'll win her over even more.

So yes, on a certain level the forcefulness is something women like, to feel a man's strength, but at the point of contact I think a gentler approach is best.

The other thing you absolutely don't want to wind up doing is be like those porn stars that screw women for an hour and at the end they wind up having to pull out and wank for 2-3 minutes. There are a lot of reasons that can happen, either because you're used to a choke-hold from masturbation or the session has gone on long enough that you're rubbed to the point of numbness. But for me, the best way to make it last and be able to finish is to go slower and gentler. If you're with the wrong woman she's going to be loose as a goose. If you're with the right woman she'll be using her muscles to squeeze you even while you barely move. * Neither you nor her will need anything more.

---

Now as far as escalation...

I have a girlfriend right now. She's a 40-something ex-housewife with very little sexual experience. In other words, she's a goody two shoes. That doesn't mean she has no libido. It's just been woefully satisfied to the point where her expectations were really low.

Guess what? I got her in the back of my car on the icebreaker. This is NOT supposed to happen with a woman like this.

I did this by having a deep talk with her in the restaurant with no real physical contact and no overt "game". It was a genuine no-holds-barred intimate talk with lots of taboo ex-relationship confessionals.

It's the typical talk a nice guy would do that would usually lead to LJBF.

But here's the difference...

When we were done and headed out to the parking lot, there's that inevitable moment where you're at the very least, going to have a polite hug, and maybe a kiss.

THAT, my friends, is the make or break moment.

THAT is when you have to kind of slow time and do things just right over every precious millisecond.



I really can't emphasize how important that first kiss is, how much is riding on it.

I can't tell you how to give a really good kiss, but if you do, then the rest is easy, because she will NOT want to just go home, and once you start making out, all the escalation is simply a function of how well you can caress her and make her feel safe and relaxed in your arms.

I think for guys, they crave the cock in pussy experience and they see everything else as a means to an end. A woman must feel fireworks on that first kiss. You can not do it in a perfunctory manner. I don't even really french kiss. I do it my own way, which is simultaneously wholesome AND passionate. The passion doesn't come from being forceful, it's comes from the way I caress her back gently with my hands, or I hug her with pulses, and she can probably feel my heart race. And if I'm lucky I get my body close enough so she can feel my cock throbbing against her tummy.

That is how you SEXUALIZE kissing. Her hamster thinks of it as romantic and nonthreatening, but because of how much physical contact is going on beyond just the lips, it is ABSOLUTELY sexual, and her body is reacting that way, even though you're there doing something out in public view.

I usually avoid going for her neck or anything like that. Unless she specifically turns her head as a prompt to suck on her neck, I keep it on the lips.

I also have to really evaluate her movements. If she's getting into it she will "double down" on the kissing. She'll start rocking her head back and forth and she'll throw her arms around you again and pull you in tighter. You've got to kind of give her space to communicate through body language like this that she's into it rather than you being the only one investing. The more signals like this that she gives, the more confidence you're going to have to keep going.

So if you do it right that kiss can last several minutes right out in the parking lot to the point where there's really no choice but to stop being ridiculous and get into the car to continue.

I think the problem with guys is they don't read a woman's body language. They operate off of a script. So they assume that on the first kiss you should only let it last X seconds and then disengage, period, in order to not be "a creep". You MUST play it by ear. If she is into you, she will not want you to pull away.

Now, you can just start to pull away, but look closely at her eyes. If she wants to keep going, you'll know. As a formality, it might impress her to pull away as if you're mister Chivalry, but once you sense that she's really turned on, just dive right back in. Personally, I don't think doing that really matters.

On the flipside, if she's "done" with the kiss you need to immediately sense that move she makes with her hands. Her arms will move from hugging back down to her side and her whole body will kind of start to straighten back up again. The gentlemanly move is to anticipate all this and start to lay off simultaneously. If you force it, THAT is when you will be perceived as a creep.

I've never had a case where a woman gives off the "I'm done with the kiss" body language and then jumps me again. When it's done, it's done.

Sorry for writing an epic here, but this, to me, is the single most important make or break moment in sealing the deal with a woman. Where I usually get screwed is women not wanting to go out with me because the dating profile isn't compelling enough. If I can cross that physical threshold, though, then women are shocked by this transformation from meek beta into lover extraordinaire.

Just to relate back to the OT, you can see how much that study attempts to wildly oversimplify. Becoming a good lover is a pretty deep topic. It's not simply a matter of women knee-jerk cumming because a guy has an invisible "alpha" or "beta" label over them.

* Yes, my current GF does this. I'm a happy camper.

[realologist]

(01-08-2017 12:30 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  

^But if its the first time with you, it's inherently 'mixed up a bit' because you're new right? Also it doesn't apply to the girls with low or nil sexual experience, who don't come either

(01-08-2017 08:36 AM)realologist Wrote:  

The goal is to build the sexual tension. When that sexual tension is high you can get chicks to cum very quickly as long as you provide familiarity (you) and variety(some change).

Interesting. On evaluation, I really do not build sexual tension at all. Only the bare minimum required, as I've always been primarily concerned with pushing the girl 'through the process' to get intimate with her as soon as possible. This focus I guess has stemmed from the Australian Hell I endured. But that programmed 'desperate compulsion' has subsided, and the importance of any given lay has become a fraction of what it was. So I will try working on this higher level of sexual tension building.

Could you provide some examples of how I would transition, for example, from comfortable conversation (where I'm building rapport etc) into something building sexual tension, and back? Or from attractive talk (stories/ideas and so on) into it? At most I'll do a bit of touching. I've done stuff before like surreptitiously rubbing her inner thigh whilst talking about something else altogether, but I usually avoid that as it seems higher risk of 'doing it too early and scaring her off'. But I'm guessing that stuff is along the right lines, right?

Currently I'm following the rule of 'kiss her soon after she enters your apartment, and not before', since this increases the chance of her coming back due to her having plausible deniability (we are just going to watch a movie), and avoids diffusing the tension until it can be released conducive to progressing to sex. Then after that I just persevere though the rest of the steps (which can either be instant or lengthy depending on the girl). I don't attempt to do anything else to build sexual tension (other than is created when slowly breaking down her resistance if she puts it up) until she is naked and I'm doing foreplay.

Should I be doing the steps between the first kiss and the foreplay in a much more tension-building manner? About how long is this stage for you guys, in the case where there is no resistance (e.g. she's a girl you're already with)?

You can do this with a girl you've already been with vs. a new girl.

I prefer to not even kiss the girl before I build that tension.

So let's say I meet a girl at a loud night spot. While talking to her I'll probably put my hand on the small of her back. An area that's just sexual enough to leave her wondering. When I talk to her I don't just speak. I talk directly into her ear letting her feel my breath and having my lips "accidentally" brush her ear. The way I look at will be sending the same signal.

Many times I'll leave a chick and come back later. When I come back later I might lightly touch the back of her neck or hand. Hold her like your about to kiss her but pull back. Push it and then deny her some.

A lot of stuff is just subtle slightly sexual touching and body language done repeatedly. You can be more aggressive once you

If she resists any one of these. Use the touching that's the next step down.

Only release that tension and allow her to let go when you are in a spot that you can fuck(a kiss is a great way to relieve tension).

[Phoenix]

^ Ah OK, that's already roughly what I'm doing though, so it might be something else I'm doing to diffuse tension. Perhaps talking too much generally or too much rapport building. I still think I'll try more after-got-her-home tension building.

[realologist]

(01-08-2017 03:16 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  

^ Ah OK, that's already roughly what I'm doing though, so it might be something else I'm doing to diffuse tension. Perhaps talking too much generally or too much rapport building. I still think I'll try more after-got-her-home tension building.

What are you doing on the way to yours/her place?

[Phoenix]

(01-08-2017 03:27 PM)realologist Wrote:  

What are you doing on the way to yours/her place?

Basically nothing except talking to keep comfort.

[realologist]

(01-09-2017 05:13 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

(01-08-2017 03:27 PM)realologist Wrote:  

What are you doing on the way to yours/her place?

Basically nothing except talking to keep comfort.

That's where you lose her. You use all that effort and build all that tension just to let it out on the way to yours/her place.

That's the time to ramp it up a little. If in a car touch your hand on her inner thigh at the minimum. If walking, grab and squeeze her ass, push her against a wall act like you are going to kiss her but pull back. Ride the momentum of the sexual energy you built all the way until you fuck.