[Roosh]

Quote:

Racial and ethnic minorities now surpass non-Hispanic whites as the largest group of American children under 5 years old, the Census Bureau said Thursday.

The reversal in 2014 marked a milestone in a trend toward a more diverse U.S. that's projected to continue. Births outnumbered deaths for all ethnic and racial groups last year except for non-Hispanic whites, the new Census data show. A report earlier this year projected that by 2044, today's majority white population will be the minority.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...anic-white

I'd be curious to know the last time this happened in the continental USA landmass. Maybe in the 1600s? Four-hundred years of racial dominance on a continent is a respectable length, but a blink of an eye in terms of world history.

[General Stalin]

We're going the way of Germany and Japan with the ethnic majority birth rate dropping too low.



Young white folks (women) don't want babies.

[Atlanta Man]

This has a more to do with economics than anything. I have mostly white friends that are professionals, either Doctors or Lawyers. Most of them only have one child, two at most because that is all they can reasonably provide for. However I went to a public high school and many of my lower socioeconomic classmates there were minorities, and they had multiple children before they were 25. Gone are the days of total financial independence and responsibility in your 20's and families with 4 or 5 children, it is just not economically feasible now days.

[Roosh]

I suspect humans have a built-in suicide switch. When life becomes too comfortable for groups of them, they stop reproducing, because they are too far out of the scope of nature that mostly dictates survival. Whites have been doomed by their own success, but if you track birth rates of immigrants to USA, you'll see they become less fertile in time too, suggesting that no race is immune to the "poison" of comfort. The West has become metaphoric birth control for human beings, which is why I don't have much confidence that it will be saved.

[username]

(12-08-2016 02:21 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

Young white folks (women) don't want babies.

It's pretty crazy. I know tons of white girls in the mid-20s and have no aspirations of being a mom. My sister is one of those. She is a work-a-holic chasing the dollars and being a proud "dog mom." I can't even remember the last time I heard a white girl talking about having kids. It's always me-me-me-career me-me-me-bigger house me-me-me new car me-me-me more materialistic junk.

Meanwhile I go overseas to the "3rd world" and a good amount of 20 something women are excited to have kids and be a mom.

[Hell_Is_Like_Newark]

How many of those birth are covered in one form or another of government assistance? i.e. WIC That is the number I want to know.

[General Stalin]

(12-08-2016 02:24 PM)Atlanta Man Wrote:  

This has a more to do with economics than anything. I have mostly white friends that are professionals, either Doctors or Lawyers. Most of them only have one child, two at most because that is all they can reasonably provide for. However I went to a public high school and many of my lower socioeconomic classmates there were minorities, and they had multiple children before they were 25. Gone are the days of total financial independence and responsibility in your 20's and families with 4 or 5 children, it is just not economically feasible now days.

This is a fallacy. It's a very typical white-middle-class-Western trend to think raising children is a huge financial undertaking. Poor people can have a brood of kids and still afford to put food in their faces, clothes on their backs, and a roof on their heads. You trying to tell me a couple of middle class SWIPL's bringing in a combined income of $100k+ can't afford diapers and baby food?

The reason is because middle-class white Westerners are rampant consumers and are programmed to think that they need to buy all the latest and greatest high-tech expensive shit for their children. Tons of awesome expensive toys, fun family vacations, super premium high-priced diapers, gluten-free non-GMO locally sourced organic baby food, the super-mega-Titan-G3-twinturbo- all-terrain baby stroller with matching track suit so mom (dad) can jog with the baby and the dog in the morning. Private schools, a new car, etc.

You can raise a child for very little money. Lower income families who pump out kid after kid are proof of that. Hell even if you want to make the "American welfare family" argument, look at poor countries. Third world poverty stricken places have some of the highest birthrates on the planet with little to no government aid available. They feed their kids with breast milk rice and grain, and make their own reusable diapers and clothes.

All a kid needs to grow happy and healthy in this world is food, education, and love. Food is incredibly affordable in America if you stay away from overpriced marked up bullshit Wholefoods-type products, public education is already paid for by tax dollars, and love is free and inherent.

[britchard]

The number of births of minorities surpassing whites happened over 4 years ago. This is just saying that there are now more children under 5 who are a 'minority' than there are whites.

[Cadders]

Regarding the built-in suicide switch idea, I think there is a case to be made that the primary function of hypergamy is the 'creative destruction' of successful human societies.

Nature (or God) never does anything for no reason and I have often pondered why hypergamy has risen to be the prince of human instincts (after the drive to eat). If it did not serve a purpose humans would have evolved out of it. But not only have we not, it is so powerful that it is responsible for everything humans have achieved, or ever will achieve. Everything from the first cave painting to landing a probe on a comet, has, at it's root, men's drive to get laid.

Occasionally we humans create a system, a society, that is so comfortable that we just stop trying. This is not good for us as individuals or as a species - when we stop progressing, when we stop pushing, we start to die. This is when hypergamy kicks in - comfortable societies tend to produce weak men, which triggers the hypergamous response in women, who push for greater roles in society, thereby causing it to fail / collapse. When we rebuild, we tend to build something better than we had before.

It is easy to hate on hypergamy but ultimately it may be the price we pay for being as successful a species as we are - it may be the single trait that ensures our survival where other species fail.

[Sooth]

[Dr. Howard]

(12-08-2016 02:33 PM)Hell_Is_Like_Newark Wrote:  

How many of those birth are covered in one form or another of government assistance? i.e. WIC That is the number I want to know.

Right here. Government subsidies incentivize having multiple children for poorer people.

If you are a single woman or single man you get no access to subsidies. However, pop out a kid an now you can get EITC credits, subsidized housing, free daycare, free school lunches, food stamps, free medicare for everyone in the household. Lets not forget to mention child support for the single moms.

Those subsidies also increase with more children up to an income of about $36k. This is even more important for illegal immigrants as their US born children open the door for the subsidies as well.

So, think about the people you know making under 36, and more likely around 24k/year, especially multiple generational families making that income. How many kids to they have, regardless of ethnicity. My poor inlaws in the midwest fit this bracket, and are white and have like 4 kids each. The poor people in the trailer parks here are white. Thats just in pockets though, across the US, what is the ethnic makeup of the poor in america. Its only 9% white. So....if the poor are 91% non white, and there are incentives to have kids if you are poor. This statisitic is not surprising

2nd. point @ Roosh's post

Quote:

I suspect humans have a built-in suicide switch. When life becomes too comfortable for groups of them, they stop reproducing, because they are too far out of the scope of nature that mostly dictates survival. Whites have been doomed by their own success, but if you track birth rates of immigrants to USA, you'll see they become less fertile in time too, suggesting that no race is immune to the "poison" of comfort. The West has become metaphoric birth control for human beings, which is why I don't have much confidence that it will be saved.

The poison of comfort is also a moral one. Decadent societies also become amoral/atheist. If there is no point to life besides the now and yourself then children only cut into your consumer spending power, and thus your self indulgence.

Contrast that with evangelical christians around where I live. They are all about having big families to give glory to god and provide future generations to spread the word, and they are for the most part middle class to affluent. They also have a culture where the wife gains status in the church by popping out a lot of kids, vs being a dick a holic, social media whore.

So, I agree with the poison of comfort but its a combination of having the affluence to self indulge and the cultural norms where maximal indulgence/comfort is the highest status form of living.

[Fender_Bender]

I suppose it could be worse....



Very similar situation however

[Repo]

@ General Stalin

Yes, but poor people don't pay for things like college or private schooling for their kids. People with money typically pay for these things, and think about them when deciding whether or not to have kids. School costs in the US are out of control.

[General Stalin]

(12-08-2016 02:54 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

So, I agree with the poison of comfort but its a combination of having the affluence to self indulge and the cultural norms where maximal indulgence/comfort is the highest status form of living.

This is what I am getting at.

The problem with the middle-America-majority not having kids is rank consumerism as a result of our over-indulgent culture. One couple complains about how expensive having a kid is, but won't bat an eyelash on taking on $100k in student loan debt, $20k for a late model used car, $200k for a house/condo, $200+/month on cellphone plans with unlimited data and high speed internet netflix cable yadda yadda yadda. A few thousand on yearly vacations abroad.

People don't care about pissing away money and going in debt up to their eyeballs, they just care about having cool stuff and doing fun things because that is what they have been told to do.

EDIT:

(12-08-2016 02:57 PM)Repo Wrote:  

@ General Stalin

Yes, but poor people don't pay for things like college or private schooling for their kids. People with money typically pay for these things, and think about them when deciding whether or not to have kids. School costs in the US are out of control.

That's exactly what I'm saying. What are you getting at? Can't tell if you are trying to argue my point or are agreeing. Most unnecessary consumer products in the US are incredibly inflated. Private school and college are not necessary to raise a child. Public school is free and college is an entirely optional and unnecessary life choice for young adults.

[Hell_Is_Like_Newark]

(12-08-2016 02:42 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

This is a fallacy. It's a very typical white-middle-class-Western trend to think raising children is a huge financial undertaking. Poor people can have a brood of kids and still afford to put food in their faces, clothes on their backs, and a roof on their heads. You trying to tell me a couple of middle class SWIPL's bringing in a combined income of $100k+ can't afford diapers and baby food?

I have a son incoming (assuming nothing goes wrong), so the cost of raising a kid has been on my mind for a while now:

Food, clothes, strollers, etc. are not a big deal. I think most of our baby clothes are going to be donated by a couple of my wife's friends who don't need the clothes anymore. Lightly used strollers are available on Craigslist.

My main financial concern is the cost of education. The public school system here is a place my kids will never set foot in. The private schools are insanely expensive ($18k a year for pre school). Home school? Probably. My only other option is to move to an area with 'good schools'... somewhere in the suburbs. That means a crushing mortgage, a killer commute, and a wicked property tax bill.

Longer term worries is college costs. My income will be too high for grants and my kids, though bi-racial, neither race counts for added aid. This means I have to save a lot of $$$ for school, while still saving for my retirement. The numbers are really quite daunting.

Health insurance costs.. even employer paid plans getting pretty damn expensive once you add 2+ kids on to the plan.

[Repo]

@ General Stalin

I was agreeing with some of the points you made about unnecessary consumer goods, but pointing out an item you didn't address, which Hell is like Newark now just did.

[Merenguero]

(12-08-2016 02:33 PM)Hell_Is_Like_Newark Wrote:  

How many of those birth are covered in one form or another of government assistance? i.e. WIC That is the number I want to know.

That WIC stuff is completely out of control. There is a supermarket I go to just to just to buy green tea and every time I'm in the place, there are no fewer than ten people in every checkout lane (only two lanes are ever open at one time in this particular supermarket) and the vast majority of them are paying with these government issued checks for WIC or whatever the hell it is and have absolutely no shame in doing so. I'd have a bad over my head if I were ever doing that.

[General Stalin]

(12-08-2016 03:13 PM)Hell_Is_Like_Newark Wrote:  

I have a son incoming (assuming nothing goes wrong), so the cost of raising a kid has been on my mind for a while now:

Food, clothes, strollers, etc. are not a big deal. I think most of our baby clothes are going to be donated by a couple of my wife's friends who don't need the clothes anymore. Lightly used strollers are available on Craigslist.

My main financial concern is the cost of education. The public school system here is a place my kids will never set foot in. The private schools are insanely expensive ($18k a year for pre school). Home school? Probably. My only other option is to move to an area with 'good schools'... somewhere in the suburbs. That means a crushing mortgage, a killer commute, and a wicked property tax bill.

Longer term worries is college costs. My income will be too high for grants and my kids, though bi-racial, neither race counts for added aid. This means I have to save a lot of $$$ for school, while still saving for my retirement. The numbers are really quite daunting.

Health insurance costs.. even employer paid plans getting pretty damn expensive once you add 2+ kids on to the plan.

^ the thing about that is, it is all affordable you just need to decide how much of your lifestyle you are willing to sacrifice for the betterment of your family.

Providing a good education for you children is important so uprooting to a place with better schools is a typical choice I believe most expecting parents should consider. You don't need to buy a home if money is tight and you don't need to send your kid to college - of course it's not a bad idea to save anyway. Higher education will ultimately be your kids' choice when they are old enough to consider it, but hell they may want to learn a trade or got into military, or they may actually be good students and get a scholarship. They could also attend community college for a couple years for very low tuition costs then get guaranteed acceptance into a state school at lower tuition costs. There are tons of options down the road when you want to get fancy planning your kid's future.

[Hell_Is_Like_Newark]

Mike Judge wrote a comedy that turned into prophecy..

[Dr. Howard]

(12-08-2016 03:02 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

(12-08-2016 02:54 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

So, I agree with the poison of comfort but its a combination of having the affluence to self indulge and the cultural norms where maximal indulgence/comfort is the highest status form of living.

This is what I am getting at.

The problem with the middle-America-majority not having kids is rank consumerism as a result of our over-indulgent culture. One couple complains about how expensive having a kid is, but won't bat an eyelash on taking on $100k in student loan debt, $20k for a late model used car, $200k for a house/condo, $200+/month on cellphone plans with unlimited data and high speed internet netflix cable yadda yadda yadda. A few thousand on yearly vacations abroad.

People don't care about pissing away money and going in debt up to their eyeballs, they just care about having cool stuff and doing fun things because that is what they have been told to do.

EDIT:

(12-08-2016 02:57 PM)Repo Wrote:  

@ General Stalin

Yes, but poor people don't pay for things like college or private schooling for their kids. People with money typically pay for these things, and think about them when deciding whether or not to have kids. School costs in the US are out of control.

That's exactly what I'm saying. What are you getting at? Can't tell if you are trying to argue my point or are agreeing. Most unnecessary consumer products in the US are incredibly inflated. Private school and college are not necessary to raise a child. Public school is free and college is an entirely optional and unnecessary life choice for young adults.

Agreed. It reminds me of an example my wife and I were talking about the other day. A brand new fancy washer and dryer costs the same as a nice DSLR camera.

A basic refrigerator costs the same as a new xbox, same for a new water heater.

[Atlanta Man]

[quote] (12-08-2016 02:42 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

[quote='Atlanta Man' pid='1460111' dateline='1481225087']


This is a fallacy. It's a very typical white-middle-class-Western trend to think raising children is a huge financial undertaking. Poor people can have a brood of kids and still afford to put food in their faces, clothes on their backs, and a roof on their heads. You trying to tell me a couple of middle class SWIPL's bringing in a combined income of $100k+ can't afford diapers and baby food?

The reason is because middle-class white Westerners are rampant consumers and are programmed to think that they need to buy all the latest and greatest high-tech expensive shit for their children. Tons of awesome expensive toys, fun family vacations, super premium high-priced diapers, gluten-free non-GMO locally sourced organic baby food, the super-mega-Titan-G3-twinturbo- all-terrain baby stroller with matching track suit so mom (dad) can jog with the baby and the dog in the morning. Private schools, a new car, etc.

You can raise a child for very little money. Lower income families who pump out kid after kid are proof of that. Hell even if you want to make the "American welfare family" argument, look at poor countries. Third world poverty stricken places have some of the highest birthrates on the planet with little to no government aid available. They feed their kids with breast milk rice and grain, and make their own reusable diapers and clothes.

All a kid needs to grow happy and healthy in this world is food, education, and love. Food is incredibly affordable in America if you stay away from overpriced marked up bullshit Wholefoods-type products, public education is already paid for by tax dollars, and love is free and inherent.[/quote]
I respectfully disagree. I am not raising my children in a ghetto and they are not going to a shitty school. I have seen what happens when people just have kids in a shitty neighborhood with shitty schools. My children are going to be born into an upper middle class environment with no crime and plenty of opportunity.

You have complete control over your children until about 11 years old, then the environment they are in will have a profound effect on how they grow up. Lower class neighborhoods in Atlanta and Miami(I will likely end up in one of these two cites suburbs due to my current professional connections) are violent, and crime ridden.

My parents planned to ensure that me and my siblings were well educated and in a good neighborhood and we all turned out well. I have other relatives that opted to buy a cheaper house in a shitty part of town, with shitty schools and their children paid the price. My children are going to be my priority and I am going to be ruthless in my pursuit of providing them the best opportunity I can.

A decent house in Atlanta in Buckhead is $750,000. That is so your Public School is not a prison pipeline, and your neighborhood is full of professionals. I am paying cash for college , no student loans. I am taking my children on vacations, and my son is going on hunting trips -just like my father did with me. I am going to keep my kids financially covered until they finish Professional School and if I can I will have a Major Medical Practice or Consulting firm with my last name on it for them to Join and one day take over when they finish their education.

My Profession dictates that I must live in or near a major city, there are no Biotech firms in Oklahoma. I also have to be present for networking, I cannot live in Montana and telework.

[JohnKreese]

(12-08-2016 02:49 PM)Sooth Wrote:  

Gosh. That alleged interbreeding is even worse than I thought!

[Hell_Is_Like_Newark]

(12-08-2016 03:18 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  

That WIC stuff is completely out of control.

Research departments in Universities use WIC indirectly to get subsidized labor. They bring in research people from overseas and pay them starvation wages. The research people then qualify for WIC at the behest of their US born children. I have personally seen this happen.

One of my former tenants (friend of my wife) had WIC. WIC allowed her to keep her premium cable TV package which cost about $300 a month.

[Hell_Is_Like_Newark]

(12-08-2016 03:24 PM)Atlanta Man Wrote:  

I respectfully disagree. I am not raising my children in a ghetto and they are not going to a shitty school. I have seen what happens when people just have kids in a shitty neighborhood with shitty schools.

My parents planned to ensure that me and my siblings were well educated and in a good neighborhood and we all turned out well.

A decent house in Atlanta in Buckhead is $750,000. That is so your Public School is not a prison pipeline, and your neighborhood is full of professionals.

My Profession dictates that I must live in or near a major city, there are no Biotech firms in Oklahoma. I also have to be present for networking, I cannot live in Montana and telework.

My parents left a home they loved to get out of a bad public school system (my sister was being beaten and robbed daily for the crime of being white).

I think my dad spent 1/4 of his life commuting to his job so we could have good school (in reality, they weren't that good). I actually didn't see my Dad that much because he had to leave home so early and got home so late. It was draining on him and he did it for over two decades.

I am in a similar situation as you. Moving to Idaho is not an option. My career requires me to be in a major metro area. I just don't want to end up spending my life getting to and from my job like my dad did.

[General Stalin]

(12-08-2016 03:24 PM)Atlanta Man Wrote:  

I respectfully disagree. I am not raising my children in a ghetto and they are not going to a shitty school. I have seen what happens when people just have kids in a shitty neighborhood with shitty schools. My children are going to be born into an upper middle class environment with no crime and plenty of opportunity.

You have complete control over your children until about 11 years old, then the environment they are in will have a profound effect on how they grow up. Lower class neighborhoods in Atlanta and Miami(I will likely end up in one of these two cites suburbs due to my current professional connections) are violent, and crime ridden.

My parents planned to ensure that me and my siblings were well educated and in a good neighborhood and we all turned out well. I have other relatives that opted to buy a cheaper house in a shitty part of town, with shitty schools and their children paid the price. My children are going to be my priority and I am going to be ruthless in my pursuit of providing them the best opportunity I can.

A decent house in Atlanta in Buckhead is $750,000. That is so your Public School is not a prison pipeline, and your neighborhood is full of professionals. I am paying cash for college , no student loans. I am taking my children on vacations, and my son is going on hunting trips -just like my father did with me. I am going to keep my kids financially covered until they finish Professional School and if I can I will have a Major Medical Practice or Consulting firm with my last name on it for them to Join and one day take over when they finish their education.

My Profession dictates that I must live in or near a major city, there are no Biotech firms in Oklahoma. I also have to be present for networking, I cannot live in Montana and telework.

You didn't actually disagree with any off the points I made though and you didn't refute any of my claims.

You stated exactly what I explained is endemic to middle-class America.

You stated you want to raise your kids in a nicer, higher-value area, in an expensive home near a major city, and offer them lots of luxuries that only a family with a higher bracket of income can afford. There is nothing wrong with that but it is not necessary.

Inferring that raising your kids anywhere but in a 3/4mio dollar home in the nicest part of town, paying out of pocket for all of their higher education and covering all of their living costs until they are in their mid-to-late 20's so they can join your firm is the only alternative to them being criminal statistics is absurd.