[SamuelBRoberts]

(11-23-2016 09:48 PM)Laurifer Wrote:  

"I don't really understand all of the defensiveness coming from Mike. Is it because he interviewed Spencer in his film? Anyways, Mike got involved in politics to build his brand — even though he used to pride himself with the fact that he never participated in it or discussed it. After going full steam ahead on the Trump train (and GamerGate) he blew up virtually over night."

It's because Spencer, as I've said in the Trump thread, is a fag, and so are his poisonous followers. Cernovich is on the verge of seeing everything he's worked for ruined by a bunch of autistic idiots.

I am bewildered by some of the arguments being posted in this thread. (Not necessarily by the posters themselves.)

The fear is not that the left is going to call us Nazis. That was always going to happen. The fear is that the center and right are going to associate us with Nazis. (When I say us here, I mean this forum. If you're participating in this forum, odds are you're going to be considered alt-right.) The former isn't a concern. The latter is a serious, and potentially fatal, problem for the movement.

The left tried to smear us as Nazis during the election, and failed, because all they had to point to was a bunch of tweets. No one gives a shit what people post on twitter, and if you rant about evil-twitter posts you come across as a loon talking about cartoon frogs. Idiots Seig-Heiling and Seig-Trumping for the camera in Washington, two blocks from the white house, is a completely different matter. That's powerful, convincing imagery. That's imagery that stays with you. That's imagery that's immensely hard to overcome.

The alt-right has had its victories so far by being cool, fun, upbeat and optimistic. After 40 years of it being the other way around, we're the cool kids, and the left are the squares. Spencer and his autistic idiots threaten to change that. Look at all the chicks in the Sexy Trump Supporters thread. You think they'd be associating with a bunch of morons doing Nazis salutes for journalists? You think the "Wisconsin-nice" people who handed Trump his victory want anything to do with that? You think the black guys Trump is trying to make inroads with want to associate with them?

The best thing Spencer can do for the alt-right movement, for the country, and for the future of the white race in general is punch himself repeatedly in the face, close down his jackass organization, move to someplace in Siberia without an internet connection, and never, ever talk politics with anyone again.

[Eskhander]

(11-23-2016 10:16 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

(11-23-2016 09:48 PM)Laurifer Wrote:  

"I don't really understand all of the defensiveness coming from Mike. Is it because he interviewed Spencer in his film? Anyways, Mike got involved in politics to build his brand — even though he used to pride himself with the fact that he never participated in it or discussed it. After going full steam ahead on the Trump train (and GamerGate) he blew up virtually over night."

It's because Spencer, as I've said in the Trump thread, is a fag, and so are his poisonous followers. Cernovich is on the verge of seeing everything he's worked for ruined by a bunch of autistic idiots.

I am bewildered by some of the arguments being posted in this thread. (Not necessarily by the posters themselves.)

The fear is not that the left is going to call us Nazis. That was always going to happen. The fear is that the center and right are going to associate us with Nazis. (When I say us here, I mean this forum. If you're participating in this forum, odds are you're going to be considered alt-right.) The former isn't a concern. The latter is a serious, and potentially fatal, problem for the movement.

The left tried to smear us as Nazis during the election, and failed, because all they had to point to was a bunch of tweets. No one gives a shit what people post on twitter, and if you rant about evil-twitter posts you come across as a loon talking about cartoon frogs. Idiots Seig-Heiling and Seig-Trumping for the camera in Washington, two blocks from the white house, is a completely different matter. That's powerful, convincing imagery. That's imagery that stays with you. That's imagery that's immensely hard to overcome.

The alt-right has had its victories so far by being cool, fun, upbeat and optimistic. After 40 years of it being the other way around, we're the cool kids, and the left are the squares. Spencer and his autistic idiots threaten to change that. Look at all the chicks in the Sexy Trump Supporters thread. You think they'd be associating with a bunch of morons doing Nazis salutes for journalists? You think the "Wisconsin-nice" people who handed Trump his victory want anything to do with that? You think the black guys Trump is trying to make inroads with want to associate with them?

The best thing Spencer can do for the alt-right movement, for the country, and for the future of the white race in general is punch himself repeatedly in the face, close down his jackass organization, move to someplace in Siberia without an internet connection, and never, ever talk politics with anyone again.

That's the real alt-right. Not you. Sorry

[SamuelBRoberts]

(11-23-2016 10:53 PM)Eskhander Wrote:  

That's the real alt-right. Not you. Sorry

No one cares if you call yourself The Real Alt-Right, the Original Alt-Right, Diet Alt-Right , or Alt-Right Zero. No one cares who started the movement. It's an irrelevant, non-argument. As I said, if you (and I'm assuming you're with Spencer's people) really care about the future of the white race, the thing to do is knock off the Seig Heils and never try to persuade anyone of anything, ever again.

[Leonard D Neubache]

Wait a minute. I'm confused. Maybe it's the hangover, or maybe it's because much of this is insanity.

Either the alt-right is a large, diverse and relevant group who delivered Trump to the world's greatest political throne against all odds

OR

The alt-right is a much smaller racially driven entity that will shed it's meme warrior straphangers and disappear into political irrelevance.

Pick one.

[All or Nothing]

(11-23-2016 11:00 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Wait a minute. I'm confused. Maybe it's the hangover, or maybe it's because much of this is insanity.

Either the alt-right is a large, diverse and relevant group who delivered Trump to the world's greatest political throne against all odds

OR

The alt-right is a much smaller racially driven entity that will shed it's meme warrior straphangers and disappear into political irrelevance.

Pick one.

The Stormfront crowd has already decided for us.

They are sticking with alt-right, so we should just move on and start calling ourselves the "New Right" or whatever.

[SamuelBRoberts]

(11-23-2016 11:15 PM)All or Nothing Wrote:  

The Stormfront crowd has already decided for us.
They are sticking with alt-right, so we should just move on and start calling ourselves the "New Right" or whatever.

Unfortunately you don't get to pick your names. You are what people call you, not what you call yourself. We're more or less stuck with the term alt-right at this point, which means we're stuck with the Wanna-be Nazi's. If it was just a matter of coming up with a clever new name no one would care about these idiots.

[Leonard D Neubache]

Here's another thing that confuses me.

If these "real alt-right" people waddle like a Nazi, swim like a Nazi, fly like a Nazi and quack like a Nazi then why in the ever loving fuck aren't they just calling themselves Nazis?

If they're all about hanging blacks and gassing jews then why not avail themselves of one of the most powerful brands in the history of mankind, particularly when they don't exactly have to squabble with anyone for it. Why go to all this trouble to create some new brand, post Nazi frog memes and then complain when there's some sort of confusion about were 14/88 ends and MAGA begins?

Are they thinking that they were going to draw millions of people in by promoting Nazi principles under a different banner before shouting "surprise" and pulling out all the swastikas?

[All or Nothing]

(11-23-2016 11:20 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

Unfortunately you don't get to pick your names. You are what people call you, not what you call yourself. We're more or less stuck with the term alt-right at this point, which means we're stuck with the Wanna-be Nazi's. If it was just a matter of coming up with a clever new name no one would care about these idiots.

I don't agree. A lot of conservative counterculture (which alt-right used to be a catch all phrase for) is decentralized.

Mike Cernovich, Paul Joseph Watson, Stefan Molyneux, Breitbart, (even Roosh), et al. are all a part of the conservative counterculture. Any one of those people can opt-in to being associated with alt-right if they choose to... or not.

Alt-right is just a term that is being increasingly associated with its creator, Richard Spencer, who is a white nationalist. Might be time to just drop the usage of the term alt-right and disassociate yourself from it since the Stormfront crowd are so desperate to own it.

Conservative counterculture will go on, but the phrase "alt-right" will just die. Why fall on your sword to preserve a phrase created by some weird dude that no one meaningful wants to be associated with?

[SamuelBRoberts]

(11-23-2016 11:36 PM)All or Nothing Wrote:  

Alt-right is just a term that is being increasingly associated with its creator, Richard Spencer, who is a white nationalist. Might be time to just drop the usage of the term alt-right and disassociate yourself from it since the Stormfront crowd are so desperate to own it.

Conservative counterculture will go on, but the phrase "alt-right" will just die. Why fall on your sword to preserve a phrase created by some weird dude that no one meaningful wants to be associated with?

Because you aren't what you call yourself. You're what other people call you. And other people are calling us "alt-right". Like it or not, we're associated with these losers and there's no easy way to fix that.
To make matters worse, Breitbart's already called itself "The premiere platform for the alt-right." Once you've said something like that you can't un-say it. I don't know for sure, but I would imagine Cernovich, Watson, and others have made similar statements.

[All or Nothing]

(11-23-2016 11:48 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

Because you aren't what you call yourself. You're what other people call you. And other people are calling us "alt-right". Like it or not, we're associated with these losers and there's no easy way to fix that.
To make matters worse, Breitbart's already called itself "The premiere platform for the alt-right." Once you've said something like that you can't un-say it. I don't know for sure, but I would imagine Cernovich, Watson, and others have made similar statements.

Doesn't matter if they made those statements in the past what matters is if they keep associating themselves with the alt-right into the future.

Stormfront and Richard Spencer will continue to try and own the term "alt-right" from now until the day we all die.

What I am saying is that it makes logical sense for more moderate people to simply drop the term from now on, even if they used it in the past.

[Dismal Operator]

This has become an issue because of a heavily edited Atlantic video with a handful of idiots Sieg Heiling. Because of the MSM fuckery involved, the response by the 'alt-light' is on the surface unjustified, in the same manner as cucks crying over the Pussy Grab tape. Indeed, to the WN faction, the likes of PJW, Cernovich, Vox are exposing themselves as cucks over this.

Spencer's speech wasn't anything particularly groundbreaking or boundary pushing for him. The Hail Trump, Hail Victory line at the end seemed like nothing more than an exuberant toast. It was a written part of the speech, but he had a drink in his hand and clearly raised it as anyone would when making a toast and put it back down. It was the idiots in the crowd who decided to escalate and make it into a Nazi salute.

The problem is Spencer and the WNs defending it by saying it was just some dudes trolling. That doesn't fly when he also claims that he is looking to be the 'intellectual vanguard' of Trumpism. If that's what you're going for that sort of low grade trolling doesn't comport. There is truth to the 'they're going to call us Nazis anyway so why not?' argument, but that's what Pepe memes and social media bullying is for. There's literally no way to do that stuff in real life and not look stupid.

What those handful of guys did was the game equivalent of a noob watching a Bond flick, then hastily running off to the bar to put the exact same 'move' on the first cute girl he saw. That doesn't invalidate game, just like that video isn't going to invalidate the 'alt-right,' whatever your definition of it is, whatever the principles you think it holds are. In that regard I see why Cernovich and Vox would want to distance themselves from that.

But ultimately the most it does is creates an upgraded version of David Duke for the MSM, in that they can now use that video/NPI/Spencer to smear anyone to the right of Mao as the ultimate racist. It won't work because they've already been screaming RACISM at the top of their lungs constantly for far too long, and we've gone well past the point of diminishing returns for that tactic to work. It'll blow over.

[SamuelBRoberts]

(11-24-2016 12:20 AM)Dismal Operator Wrote:  

The Hail Trump, Hail Victory line at the end seemed like nothing more than an exuberant toast. It was a written part of the speech, but he had a drink in his hand and clearly raised it as anyone would when making a toast and put it back down. It was the idiots in the crowd who decided to escalate and make it into a Nazi salute.

"Hail Victory" is a Nazi salute. That's what "Seig Heil" means. There's no way in hell Spencer didn't know this.

I have no idea why people are making excuses for this.

[Dismal Operator]

I'm not excusing it, I just don't think it's a game changer.

[MOVSM]

(11-23-2016 03:19 PM)Il Bersagliere Wrote:  

I hope they realize that Trump is basically a Jew. Are they trolling?

Welp, that didn't take long:

[Sooth]

My biggest gripe with the anime alt right is that they will attack anyone who doesn't agree with them 100%.

If you try and talk about anything other than how the jews control the world, you're a jew shill.

In reality, this type of fanaticism is easy to subvert. The real "problem elites" LAUGH at this type of cult mentality and have been using it for years in the form of celebrity worship.

The two people who stood up and saluted at that conference WERE JEWS > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xc6fxLRUuZI

I think I'm going to start calling them the "Cult-Right".

[SamuelBRoberts]

(11-24-2016 01:03 AM)Sooth Wrote:  

I think I'm going to start calling them the "Cult-Right".

It's an apt name, but don't expect it to stick.

[SamuelBRoberts]

(11-24-2016 12:20 AM)Dismal Operator Wrote:  

Spencer's speech wasn't anything particularly groundbreaking or boundary pushing for him. The Hail Trump, Hail Victory line at the end seemed like nothing more than an exuberant toast. It was a written part of the speech, but he had a drink in his hand and clearly raised it as anyone would when making a toast and put it back down. It was the idiots in the crowd who decided to escalate and make it into a Nazi salute.

I've heard other people say this, and it's another thing that just seems so bizarre.

I was at a Trump party the night of the election. As you can imagine, there was a lot of exuberance. There was hugging. There were toasts. Lots of photos were taken. Lots of cheering, lots of clapping.

I didn't see a single Seig Heil. Anybody who'd done one would've been thrown out on their ass.

If Spencer's idea of "exuberance" is Nazi salutes, that's a big problem.

[Bear Hands]

If Romney ends up in Trump's cabinet as a reaction to this, I could not give any less of a fuck about who is actually in the alt-right and what they actually meant. The right might be kicking the media's collective ass right now, but the left still controls the media and it's not dead yet. The media was drowning and this stunt let it up for air.

[armenia4ever]

(11-23-2016 08:43 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  

(11-23-2016 07:59 PM)Slim Shady Wrote:  

-The Nazis were no worse than the British, the British were just on the winning side.

This just sounds like moral relativism. The British did conduct atrocities when faced with rebellion, to preserve their rule. Famously the Amritsar Massacre, but also the Boer concentration camps, and torture like the Cyprus internment.

The Nazis however had extermination intent. The British didn't round up millions of people with specific intent to destroy their kind. At worst they were about control or pushing people off their land or just exploiting them as an under-class. Their plan when they went to India was to get rich. The Nazis plan when they went to Russia was to wipe out the Slavs by starving them to death, and repopulate the space left behind with Germans.

And beside that, the Nazis shot first. It takes a very tortured twisting of history to somehow make the British out to be the aggressors and the Nazis the victims given their plans and subsequent Europe-conquering actions. They invaded Poland, the British had a defense treaty, so they declared war. "He started it" is the most basic rule of moral defense for violence there is.

I think his point is that the victors write the history books and dictate how history is perceived.

Stalin killed far more people than the nazis did, it's just that since he ended up being part of the 3 at Yalta to crush the nazis, he's given a kind of free pass.

History is always written by the victors - or at the very least historical sympathizers who want to re-write it. Consider the historical whitewashing of the Mongols. They killed far more people than the nazis did - often deliberately.

No big deal.

It's not moral relativism persay. The nazis were a kind of evil - but how much more evil than the rest of the villains in history? Every conquering power has committed atrocities - the nazis were just able to do it more efficiently.

Hopefully at some point, the stormfront crowd will realize the stupidity and logical end of their worldview.

[quino_16]

(11-23-2016 03:34 PM)Slim Shady Wrote:  

The "Alt-White" is flawed when it comes to their vision for the USA, but not necessarily when it comes to Europe.

It is correct to try to keep the USA culturally homogeneous (or at 80/90%) but not ethnically so. In Europe the ethnic philosophy makes more sense because that is the traditional homeland of the "White People".

This doesn't make sense because there is an overlap between culture, ethnicity, and race.

For example, the best way to preserve Japanese culture is for Japan to remain ethnically homogenous.

If there were large waves of Chinese and Korean immigration to Japan, overtime, Japanese culture will inevitably change and cease being completely Japanese.

This is exactly what happened to America. For the most part, the people of early America (1600's -1800's) were composed of two groups, namely WASPs (White Anglo-Saxon Protestants) who had a strong orientation towards a republican type of government and a sizable African-American minority. This changed with the European immigration from the late 1800's and early 1900's, in which many of the Europeans who immigrated to America were not Protestant and did have not have favorable views or experience with a republican type of government. I think this is why it was easy to subvert the USA and turn it into a leftist shithole.

Regardless, after the European immigration, American culture stopped being sorely WASP culture. The WASP went into the melting pot along with the other cultures of European immigrants to form a new culture.

Quote:

Yes, it is true that the Europeans conquered America - there was a fight and the natives lost. However, even though the USA may have been built by white people, and you can say it was built to be for white people, that's not what the Constitution says.

False.

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

The preamble of the Constitution clearly states that the US is for white people, specifically for the descendants of the WASP settlers.

Quote:

The problem is that any kind of extreme race based identity politics in the USA comes off as insecure and doesn't maximize your economic utility functions to begin with - it simply isn't logical. Culture/ideology based identity politics doesn't necessarily have this deficiency. Allowing weak minded and insecure individuals to be part of your movement will ensure that your movement fails. Diversity+Proximity = War is more true with culture today than it is with race. A white Islamist, a white Christian, and a white feminist are more likely to fight, and have fewer things in common, than me (brown), a black forum member, and a white forum member.

This isn't true.

Race/ethnicity/culture serve as better unifying forces than culture/ideology. This partially explains the popularity of the BLM and la raza movements, which are examples of extreme race based on identity politics.

[The Beast1]

Am I the only one who doesn't even remotely care?

Seriously this forum and maybe the r/the_donald are the epicenter of the alt right. I say maybe for reddit because of the obvious.

Roosh, thanks for not getting involved in these talking head wars. Nothing good comes from this.

On a side should be the ones broadcasting out Pizzagate to the world. Let's find a way to get those reddit guys to come here and store their findings.

[britchard]

Slim Shady, can I ask why you quoted my post (not trying to sound passive aggressive, I'm genuinely a bit confused as to why you did it). If it was to detail your point about the evil Brits, then that's fine. I said in my post that I have neutral feelings towards the European takeover of America.

My nationalist (not white nationalist) side says that each country should be for the historic natives of that country. Britain for the British people, Egypt for the Egyptians, Russia for the Russian and so on. This would make me an opponent of what my country did in the 19th century.

However I think that in the long-term our invasion improved those countries. Especially Australia and New Zealand. I will post more in detail later.

[SamuelBRoberts]

(11-24-2016 02:30 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Am I the only one who doesn't even remotely care?
Seriously this forum and maybe the r/the_donald are the epicenter of the alt right. I say maybe for reddit because of the obvious.
Roosh, thanks for not getting involved in these talking head wars. Nothing good comes from this.
On a side should be the ones broadcasting out Pizzagate to the world. Let's find a way to get those reddit guys to come here and store their findings.

PizzaGate's been infiltrated and subverted. It's going nowhere. Last I looked they were trying to convince people that "James Alafantis" was some kind of fake name that hinted he was a pedophile.

While the two aren't directly related, Pizzagate is a good example of how easily movements can be manipulated and subverted, and how careful we need to be. This isn't the pizzagate thread so I don't want to say more about it here, but look at how the pizzagate started with a lot of really solid evidence, and then descended into weird goofiness. Then see if you're not sensing the same pattern with the alt-right. Once it becomes successful, it suddenly turns "goofy", with porn stars doing hitler salutes at its conferences.

[I DIDN'T KILL MY WIFE]

(11-24-2016 02:30 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Am I the only one who doesn't even remotely care?

Seriously this forum and maybe the r/the_donald are the epicenter of the alt right. I say maybe for reddit because of the obvious.

Roosh, thanks for not getting involved in these talking head wars. Nothing good comes from this.

On a side should be the ones broadcasting out Pizzagate to the world. Let's find a way to get those reddit guys to come here and store their findings.

Ok I'm just gonna stop you right there if you think reddit and RVF are the epicenter of the alt-right

[H1N1]

A guy I know was there. He, and many others apparently, were disgusted by Spencer's bad judgement in his choice of language, and his appeal to the worst elements of the 'movement'. From what I gather, it was actually a pretty diverse crowd ethnically, though politically the majority would have considered themselves patriotic nationalists. My understanding is that many of those in attendance feel badly let down that their reasonable concerns, with fundamentally decent motivations, were hijacked by a section of the attendance who really are motivated by the rather doughy, soft-boy nastiness that is redolent of the 1488 types. By the sounds of things, Spencer has lost a significant chunk of his active audience.