Ive heard something like: Front Squat 1.5x BW, Dead Lift 2.0x BW, Bench Press 1.5x BW
Weightlifting: Starting Strength
Quote: (08-25-2011 09:03 AM)bigxxx Wrote:
What is a decent goal for bench squat dlift press etc in terms of body weight?
http://www.crossfit.com/cf-journal/WLSTANDARDS.pdf
This is a pretty cool chart, and the references seem legit (I'm assuming this data is for a 1RM). Personally, I'm all over the map. I'm in the ~181 category.
Press (If they indeed mean a dumbbell shoulder press): Novice
Squat: Novice
Bench Press: Intermediate
Deadlift: Untrained
I'm pretty happy, as I haven't touched weights in a year until the last month (and never seriously anyway). I just started doing deadlifts a few weeks ago so "untrained" sounds about right.
The 1.5x, 2x, 2.5x rule I've heard before too. And interestingly, it lines up with the "advanced" column in the link above almost perfectly.
Quote: (08-24-2011 10:18 AM)Laser Wrote:
Dietary adjustments: Used carb timing, which amounted to 6 meals a day on the following schedule:
7am: Shake
10am: Shake
12 pm: Lunch - eat at least 50 grams of protein and limit carbs to size of my fist (approx 50 grams)
3 PM: Shake
7 PM: Dinner - Eat at least 50 grams of protein and no carbs
10 PM: Shake
Thanks much for the details. I don't even know if I can realistically attempt something like this given my schedule (work full time + school part time).
Thx for the chart DC! Gives u a pretty good idea, where u at.
Quote: (08-25-2011 12:24 PM)Menace Wrote:
Quote: (08-24-2011 10:18 AM)Laser Wrote:
Dietary adjustments: Used carb timing, which amounted to 6 meals a day on the following schedule:
7am: Shake
10am: Shake
12 pm: Lunch - eat at least 50 grams of protein and limit carbs to size of my fist (approx 50 grams)
3 PM: Shake
7 PM: Dinner - Eat at least 50 grams of protein and no carbs
10 PM: Shake
Thanks much for the details. I don't even know if I can realistically attempt something like this given my schedule (work full time + school part time).
Despite the seeming complexity upon first glance, it was actually quite simple to do (aside from the mental part of craving pizza). I work full time as an investment banker, so my hours are crazy. My office had a kitchen with a blender, and it was super quick to make the shakes. 1 cup water, 2 scoops of protein powder, 2 scoops of oats, and blend. Literally took less than 3 min to make and drink the shakes. Meal planning was easy too, essentially just eat as much meat as possible and a moderate amount of carbs (except for dinner)
It's great you guys are all into weightlifting, but tbh Starting Strength is just that...strength. If you want to be aesthetically pleasing, I would use All-Pros. One is more geared towards powerlifting n00bs, and All pros is more bodybuilding noobs.
Quote: (08-26-2011 07:47 AM)Laser Wrote:Nice. Sounds like I just need to plan this out carefully.
Quote: (08-25-2011 12:24 PM)Menace Wrote:
Quote: (08-24-2011 10:18 AM)Laser Wrote:
Dietary adjustments: Used carb timing, which amounted to 6 meals a day on the following schedule:
7am: Shake
10am: Shake
12 pm: Lunch - eat at least 50 grams of protein and limit carbs to size of my fist (approx 50 grams)
3 PM: Shake
7 PM: Dinner - Eat at least 50 grams of protein and no carbs
10 PM: Shake
Thanks much for the details. I don't even know if I can realistically attempt something like this given my schedule (work full time + school part time).
Despite the seeming complexity upon first glance, it was actually quite simple to do (aside from the mental part of craving pizza). I work full time as an investment banker, so my hours are crazy. My office had a kitchen with a blender, and it was super quick to make the shakes. 1 cup water, 2 scoops of protein powder, 2 scoops of oats, and blend. Literally took less than 3 min to make and drink the shakes. Meal planning was easy too, essentially just eat as much meat as possible and a moderate amount of carbs (except for dinner)
Quote: (09-01-2011 11:58 PM)MHaes Wrote:
It's great you guys are all into weightlifting, but tbh Starting Strength is just that...strength. If you want to be aesthetically pleasing, I would use All-Pros. One is more geared towards powerlifting n00bs, and All pros is more bodybuilding noobs.
I heard the rule of thumb is maximum strength/power is 2-3 reps and maximum hypertrophy is 8-10 reps, and max endurance 12+ reps.
The SS program aims for 5 reps, so in between strength and hypertrophy. These are absolute maxes though, obviously somebody going for max hypertrophy is going to subsequently get much stronger, just as somebody who is gaining max strength is going to get substantial hypertrophy.
Personally, it moves around a bit, I might do my first set at 7, and go down as low as 4. I'd also rather actually be strong. Who wants to look swollen and actually be weak?
I think the bottom line is as a beginner, you're going to see substantial gains any way you slice it when lifting heavy compound movements and eating high protein, high nutrient meals.
This guy is pretty big but not sure how much he can bench
Pullups
Pullups are a great exercise, and the US Marine Corps recommends this program to get your volume up to 20 pullups at once:
The Armstrong Pull-up Program
This program was developed by Major Charles Lewis Armstrong. Major Armstrong developed this workout to prepare him to set a new world record in number of pull-ups completed in a single exercise session.
The program provides the necessities for any successful physical improvement regime, namely variety, overload and regularity. Users have achieved remarkable results in only 6-8 weeks. This means that most, if not all, have been able to achieve the performance level they desired, a set of 20 repetitions, as long as they are consistent with the program. It cannot be overemphasized that this program depends upon regularity. Daily performance of the exercises listed in the following paragraphs holds the true key to reaching and maintaining the 20-repetition level.
The Morning Routine
Each morning, perform 3 maximum effort sets of normal push-ups. This is very important!! The push-up is one of the best exercises for strengthening the entire set of muscles making up the shoulder girdle. Major Armstrong described this morning routine in the following manner: After rising, I would drop to the deck and do my first set of push-ups. I would then move into the head and start my morning toilet. I would return after a few minutes and do my second maximum effort set after which, I would go back into the head and shave. After shaving I would return to the bedroom and complete the third and final set. Having completed all of the push-ups, I was awake and ready for a relaxing shower.
This routine should be followed during the entire training period. Since it takes most of us at least four weeks to reach our goals, you will probably find that you have inadvertently established a morning routine that is easy enough to keep as a lifetime habit. If not you will at least appreciate the morning shower a little more.
I have noted that the push-up routine helps to alleviate any soreness during the first couple of weeks. I recommend that you use the push-up routine every day during this period so that you feel more comfortable during your initial adjustment to this regime of exercises.
Training Regimen
The following represents the heart of the training program. I recommend that you do not attempt the pull-ups until two to three hours after the push-up routine is completed. The program is conveniently divided into five training days. This is easily translated into a Monday to Friday training schedule. It is important to cease the pull-ups for two days, Saturday and Sunday. Further it is necessary to use consecutive days (not to skip days) when on the pull-up routine. Finally, it is obviously more important to do the pull-ups than the push-ups.
This training program was specifically designed to improve performance in the overhand pull-up (palms facing away). The overhand method is the preferred method, but for now do what you need to in order to complete the most repetitions for your PFT. Mix up your training between underhand and overhand until you can do twenty both ways. The program depends upon quality exercises – number of repetitions are secondary. When you are doing these exercises, you should concentrate on perfect execution of each repetition. The only person you can fool with less than your best is yourself.
Day 1
Five maximum effort sets. Rest 90 seconds between each set. Do not concern yourself with numbers. You will find that you increase the numbers in the last two sets before you see much improvement in the first three. Make sure that each set is a maximum effort set.
Day 2
Pyramid day. Start the pyramid with one repetition, the next set has two, and the next set has three. Continue in this fashion until you miss a set (e.g. your last set was four then five, your next set should be six but you only do four repetitions. You missed the set) Do one more set at maximum effort. Rest 10 seconds for each repetition in the previous set.
Day 3
Do three training sets (training sets are defined later) with a normal grip (palms away or toward you, hands slightly wider than shoulder width). Rest 60 seconds between each set. Slide your hands together and palms toward you so your little fingers are 0-4 inches apart and complete three more training sets resting 60 seconds between each set. Finally do three training sets with a wide overhand grip (palms facing away) resting 60 seconds between each set.
Day 4
Do the maximum number of training sets that you can accomplish. Rest 60 seconds between each set. You do training sets until you fail to do a perfect training set. This day can wind up being the longest training day as you continue with the program because you will find it easy to do lots of training sets. If you can do more than nine training sets, increase by one repetition next week.
Day 5
Repeat the day that you found to be the hardest in the previous four days. This may change from week to week. You can also try to doing weighted pull-ups or a pull-up assist machine for this day.
Training Sets
Training sets are easy to define, but require some experimentation to determine for the individual participating in the program. A training set has a specified number of repetitions. That means that one individual may have seven repetitions in his training set, but another could have more or less. The key to determining the proper number of repetitions in a training set comes on day 3. You must perform 9 training sets that day. If you only do 12 repetitions on a max effort set, then your training set would probably only be 1-3 repetitions. Remember, it is much more important that you complete all nine sets than doing an extra rep and only completing 6 or 7 sets. Day 3 calls for you to do nine training sets. Adjust your training set so that you can complete this routine properly.
The best gauge for the number of repetitions in a training set comes on day 4. If you successfully complete day 3, try increasing the number of repetitions in your training set by one when you do day 4. If you complete at least 9 training sets, then you know your training set should be that higher number. If you do less than nine sets, stick with the number you used for day 3.
It is important that you do not change the repetitions in a training set in midstream. When you schedule yourself to do the day’s routine using three repetitions in your training set, do not change it to two when the exercises get hard. If you miss, you miss. There is always tomorrow.
Modifications
Ladies will find that this program adapts well to the flexed arm hang. Training sets are
simply translated into hang times.
Chin-ups may be substituted for those who prefer this technique, however, day 3 must still be completed exactly as described with 6 sets done with the overhand grip.
It is highly recommended that you follow this program using overhand grip as most of the obstacles that you will have to get over at OCS require an overhand grip.
Final Thoughts
This program will work for anyone who makes a sincere effort. You may notice a drop in your maximum effort set. This is a normal physiological reaction called "tear down." As you continue, you will improve. Most of my midshipmen were able to reach the 20- repetition level in a short period of time. They started the program able to do only twelve to fifteen repetitions. If you are not at this level, it will take longer than four weeks to reach 20 repetitions. However, if you stay with the program, you will reach this goal.
Disclaimer: It is very important to note that none of these physical training programs should be started by anyone until you have consulted a licensed physician and you are told you are medically qualified to begin this specific type of physical training.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course, Marines and players have slightly different aims. Marines need to do 20 pullups to max out their score on a fitness test; your concern is aesthetics, and perhaps carryover to sexual performance. The pushups in this program may leave you a little exhausted when sexy time comes around.
For aesthetic purposes, I'd recommend varying between three kinds of pull ups: palms facing away aka pull ups, palms facing inward aka chin ups, and close grip chin ups.
For close grip chins, I've seen people recommend a gap of 6-8" between the hands, but I do them with my hands right next to each other, and I feel it almost entirely in my biceps; my back feels relatively untapped. I also do a greater range of motion, such that my torso touches my wrists at the top, instead of just getting my chin over the bar. Think of it as a barbell curl - getting your chest to touch your hands is like getting a full curl, whereas only getting your chin over is like doing only 3/4 of a curl.
Here's a good demonstration, skip to 2:44:
There’s also the wide grip pullup, used to concentrate on the upper middle back. Put your hands more than shoulder width apart, palms facing away, and pull up.
If you feel a certain muscle is trailing behind, devote more days to doing the associated variation. These are:
Biceps: Close Grip Chins
Upper back, lower traps: Pull ups
Lats: Chin ups
Technically, chinups contribute to biceps as well, but I never really noticed much bicep growth from chinups alone.
You Must Add Weight
Once you can get 5+ reps across sets on an exercise, you must add weight, using a dumbbell between your legs, or better, a dipping belt. I was at the beach yesterday, and saw guys doing crazy climbing on ropes, but their physiques were not notable. I'm not dissing them, just saying, if you want to bolster your looks and get some mass, you *have* to add weight once you can manage with bodyweight reps. Especially if you're a skinny guy, because your body won't provide much resistance to begin with.
From what I've seen with my own body and others, pull up variations will make you appear broader, but not thicker. My back and traps have gotten broader and taller, but I haven’t gotten noticeably thicker – it won’t give you a ‘meaty’ look like rows might.
For reference, this is a picture of the world record holder for weighted pull-ups, for total weight lifted, Steven Proto:
[img] http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/7167/...elrpqe.jpg[/img]
As you can see, despite having the world record, he isn’t that thick. Maybe it’s his build, but it seems like weighted pull-ups alone will not make you ‘bulky.’
Explosive Pulling
I made up my own variation, where you have a platform underneath the bar, so that you can comfortably grip the bar while standing on the ground, but your arms are completely extended, as if you were in a dead hang. After each rep, you come back to the ground. Starting each rep with your feet on the floor makes it easier to explode – it’s like the difference between a hang clean and a power clean. Then again, it may just be your feet giving you some jump. To make it as challenging, you’ll have to do more reps or weight with this variation. Something else to try out.
I nearly forgot, most gyms are retarded and don’t have a simple straight bar for pull-ups and chin-ups. I know the 24 Hour Fitness gyms I’ve been to don’t. You can take a squat rack, put the barbell on the top notch, and slip a plate on each side and use that. Or get one of the straight bar cable attachments and put it on top of their angled pull-up bars, and use that.
Bodyweight Tricep Exercise
The traditional bodyweight tricep exercises are confined to pushup variations, and the range of motion isn't great. Here's something you probably haven't seen. I've made some growth with it, after switching from pushdowns. You definitely feel the pump afterwards.
Bodyweight Tricep Extensions
It's akin to doing a skullcrusher, except you move your body rather than a barbell. Here's a video, skip to 2:50:
Use a Smith machine barbell as your grip, and put your hands 6-8" apart, overhand grip. Walk your feet back until your body is roughly in a line. Then use your arms to lower yourself down. Go until your forearm is perpendicular with the ground or slightly past it, and your head is underneath the bar, between your arms, and then use your triceps to return to the starting position. You can use any barbell in a rack as your grip as well, but the rack holding the barbell must have some sort of hook, eg a ‘J’ hook. If the barbell rests on a flat strip of metal, then the barbell is going to slide around. You’ll get a cleaner movement if the bar doesn’t roll, so find a bar that’ll remain stationary, or add a few plates to each side.
IMO, the guy in the video didn't walk back far enough. If he'd take one or two more steps, he wouldn't need to awkwardly tuck his head on each rep. There are probably all kinds of variations to this, using elevation, ropes, straps, weights and so on. I'd initially stick with using a plain barbell as a grip, and starting at a higher height, and progressively lowering the height of the bar. The lower the bar, the greater the distance you travel, and the greater the force due to the change in angle. Once you can't go any lower, and you're getting 15+ reps with ease, experiment with the variations. I haven't gotten to this point myself yet.
Pullups are a great exercise, and the US Marine Corps recommends this program to get your volume up to 20 pullups at once:
The Armstrong Pull-up Program
This program was developed by Major Charles Lewis Armstrong. Major Armstrong developed this workout to prepare him to set a new world record in number of pull-ups completed in a single exercise session.
The program provides the necessities for any successful physical improvement regime, namely variety, overload and regularity. Users have achieved remarkable results in only 6-8 weeks. This means that most, if not all, have been able to achieve the performance level they desired, a set of 20 repetitions, as long as they are consistent with the program. It cannot be overemphasized that this program depends upon regularity. Daily performance of the exercises listed in the following paragraphs holds the true key to reaching and maintaining the 20-repetition level.
The Morning Routine
Each morning, perform 3 maximum effort sets of normal push-ups. This is very important!! The push-up is one of the best exercises for strengthening the entire set of muscles making up the shoulder girdle. Major Armstrong described this morning routine in the following manner: After rising, I would drop to the deck and do my first set of push-ups. I would then move into the head and start my morning toilet. I would return after a few minutes and do my second maximum effort set after which, I would go back into the head and shave. After shaving I would return to the bedroom and complete the third and final set. Having completed all of the push-ups, I was awake and ready for a relaxing shower.
This routine should be followed during the entire training period. Since it takes most of us at least four weeks to reach our goals, you will probably find that you have inadvertently established a morning routine that is easy enough to keep as a lifetime habit. If not you will at least appreciate the morning shower a little more.
I have noted that the push-up routine helps to alleviate any soreness during the first couple of weeks. I recommend that you use the push-up routine every day during this period so that you feel more comfortable during your initial adjustment to this regime of exercises.
Training Regimen
The following represents the heart of the training program. I recommend that you do not attempt the pull-ups until two to three hours after the push-up routine is completed. The program is conveniently divided into five training days. This is easily translated into a Monday to Friday training schedule. It is important to cease the pull-ups for two days, Saturday and Sunday. Further it is necessary to use consecutive days (not to skip days) when on the pull-up routine. Finally, it is obviously more important to do the pull-ups than the push-ups.
This training program was specifically designed to improve performance in the overhand pull-up (palms facing away). The overhand method is the preferred method, but for now do what you need to in order to complete the most repetitions for your PFT. Mix up your training between underhand and overhand until you can do twenty both ways. The program depends upon quality exercises – number of repetitions are secondary. When you are doing these exercises, you should concentrate on perfect execution of each repetition. The only person you can fool with less than your best is yourself.
Day 1
Five maximum effort sets. Rest 90 seconds between each set. Do not concern yourself with numbers. You will find that you increase the numbers in the last two sets before you see much improvement in the first three. Make sure that each set is a maximum effort set.
Day 2
Pyramid day. Start the pyramid with one repetition, the next set has two, and the next set has three. Continue in this fashion until you miss a set (e.g. your last set was four then five, your next set should be six but you only do four repetitions. You missed the set) Do one more set at maximum effort. Rest 10 seconds for each repetition in the previous set.
Day 3
Do three training sets (training sets are defined later) with a normal grip (palms away or toward you, hands slightly wider than shoulder width). Rest 60 seconds between each set. Slide your hands together and palms toward you so your little fingers are 0-4 inches apart and complete three more training sets resting 60 seconds between each set. Finally do three training sets with a wide overhand grip (palms facing away) resting 60 seconds between each set.
Day 4
Do the maximum number of training sets that you can accomplish. Rest 60 seconds between each set. You do training sets until you fail to do a perfect training set. This day can wind up being the longest training day as you continue with the program because you will find it easy to do lots of training sets. If you can do more than nine training sets, increase by one repetition next week.
Day 5
Repeat the day that you found to be the hardest in the previous four days. This may change from week to week. You can also try to doing weighted pull-ups or a pull-up assist machine for this day.
Training Sets
Training sets are easy to define, but require some experimentation to determine for the individual participating in the program. A training set has a specified number of repetitions. That means that one individual may have seven repetitions in his training set, but another could have more or less. The key to determining the proper number of repetitions in a training set comes on day 3. You must perform 9 training sets that day. If you only do 12 repetitions on a max effort set, then your training set would probably only be 1-3 repetitions. Remember, it is much more important that you complete all nine sets than doing an extra rep and only completing 6 or 7 sets. Day 3 calls for you to do nine training sets. Adjust your training set so that you can complete this routine properly.
The best gauge for the number of repetitions in a training set comes on day 4. If you successfully complete day 3, try increasing the number of repetitions in your training set by one when you do day 4. If you complete at least 9 training sets, then you know your training set should be that higher number. If you do less than nine sets, stick with the number you used for day 3.
It is important that you do not change the repetitions in a training set in midstream. When you schedule yourself to do the day’s routine using three repetitions in your training set, do not change it to two when the exercises get hard. If you miss, you miss. There is always tomorrow.
Modifications
Ladies will find that this program adapts well to the flexed arm hang. Training sets are
simply translated into hang times.
Chin-ups may be substituted for those who prefer this technique, however, day 3 must still be completed exactly as described with 6 sets done with the overhand grip.
It is highly recommended that you follow this program using overhand grip as most of the obstacles that you will have to get over at OCS require an overhand grip.
Final Thoughts
This program will work for anyone who makes a sincere effort. You may notice a drop in your maximum effort set. This is a normal physiological reaction called "tear down." As you continue, you will improve. Most of my midshipmen were able to reach the 20- repetition level in a short period of time. They started the program able to do only twelve to fifteen repetitions. If you are not at this level, it will take longer than four weeks to reach 20 repetitions. However, if you stay with the program, you will reach this goal.
Disclaimer: It is very important to note that none of these physical training programs should be started by anyone until you have consulted a licensed physician and you are told you are medically qualified to begin this specific type of physical training.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course, Marines and players have slightly different aims. Marines need to do 20 pullups to max out their score on a fitness test; your concern is aesthetics, and perhaps carryover to sexual performance. The pushups in this program may leave you a little exhausted when sexy time comes around.
For aesthetic purposes, I'd recommend varying between three kinds of pull ups: palms facing away aka pull ups, palms facing inward aka chin ups, and close grip chin ups.
For close grip chins, I've seen people recommend a gap of 6-8" between the hands, but I do them with my hands right next to each other, and I feel it almost entirely in my biceps; my back feels relatively untapped. I also do a greater range of motion, such that my torso touches my wrists at the top, instead of just getting my chin over the bar. Think of it as a barbell curl - getting your chest to touch your hands is like getting a full curl, whereas only getting your chin over is like doing only 3/4 of a curl.
Here's a good demonstration, skip to 2:44:
There’s also the wide grip pullup, used to concentrate on the upper middle back. Put your hands more than shoulder width apart, palms facing away, and pull up.
If you feel a certain muscle is trailing behind, devote more days to doing the associated variation. These are:
Biceps: Close Grip Chins
Upper back, lower traps: Pull ups
Lats: Chin ups
Technically, chinups contribute to biceps as well, but I never really noticed much bicep growth from chinups alone.
You Must Add Weight
Once you can get 5+ reps across sets on an exercise, you must add weight, using a dumbbell between your legs, or better, a dipping belt. I was at the beach yesterday, and saw guys doing crazy climbing on ropes, but their physiques were not notable. I'm not dissing them, just saying, if you want to bolster your looks and get some mass, you *have* to add weight once you can manage with bodyweight reps. Especially if you're a skinny guy, because your body won't provide much resistance to begin with.
From what I've seen with my own body and others, pull up variations will make you appear broader, but not thicker. My back and traps have gotten broader and taller, but I haven’t gotten noticeably thicker – it won’t give you a ‘meaty’ look like rows might.
For reference, this is a picture of the world record holder for weighted pull-ups, for total weight lifted, Steven Proto:
[img] http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/7167/...elrpqe.jpg[/img]
As you can see, despite having the world record, he isn’t that thick. Maybe it’s his build, but it seems like weighted pull-ups alone will not make you ‘bulky.’
Explosive Pulling
I made up my own variation, where you have a platform underneath the bar, so that you can comfortably grip the bar while standing on the ground, but your arms are completely extended, as if you were in a dead hang. After each rep, you come back to the ground. Starting each rep with your feet on the floor makes it easier to explode – it’s like the difference between a hang clean and a power clean. Then again, it may just be your feet giving you some jump. To make it as challenging, you’ll have to do more reps or weight with this variation. Something else to try out.
I nearly forgot, most gyms are retarded and don’t have a simple straight bar for pull-ups and chin-ups. I know the 24 Hour Fitness gyms I’ve been to don’t. You can take a squat rack, put the barbell on the top notch, and slip a plate on each side and use that. Or get one of the straight bar cable attachments and put it on top of their angled pull-up bars, and use that.
Bodyweight Tricep Exercise
The traditional bodyweight tricep exercises are confined to pushup variations, and the range of motion isn't great. Here's something you probably haven't seen. I've made some growth with it, after switching from pushdowns. You definitely feel the pump afterwards.
Bodyweight Tricep Extensions
It's akin to doing a skullcrusher, except you move your body rather than a barbell. Here's a video, skip to 2:50:
Use a Smith machine barbell as your grip, and put your hands 6-8" apart, overhand grip. Walk your feet back until your body is roughly in a line. Then use your arms to lower yourself down. Go until your forearm is perpendicular with the ground or slightly past it, and your head is underneath the bar, between your arms, and then use your triceps to return to the starting position. You can use any barbell in a rack as your grip as well, but the rack holding the barbell must have some sort of hook, eg a ‘J’ hook. If the barbell rests on a flat strip of metal, then the barbell is going to slide around. You’ll get a cleaner movement if the bar doesn’t roll, so find a bar that’ll remain stationary, or add a few plates to each side.
IMO, the guy in the video didn't walk back far enough. If he'd take one or two more steps, he wouldn't need to awkwardly tuck his head on each rep. There are probably all kinds of variations to this, using elevation, ropes, straps, weights and so on. I'd initially stick with using a plain barbell as a grip, and starting at a higher height, and progressively lowering the height of the bar. The lower the bar, the greater the distance you travel, and the greater the force due to the change in angle. Once you can't go any lower, and you're getting 15+ reps with ease, experiment with the variations. I haven't gotten to this point myself yet.
Great post Basil, some real good info there.
I'm intrigued about the Armstrong method, pull ups I can do a lot, but I'm more interested in getting really good at wide grip chins, to develop my lat strength. Can this programme be adapted to that?
Also doing max rep push ups and pull ups, how does this fit into a heavy weight lifting routine? Will you still have energy left to squat, deadlift, press, bench etc?
I'm intrigued about the Armstrong method, pull ups I can do a lot, but I'm more interested in getting really good at wide grip chins, to develop my lat strength. Can this programme be adapted to that?
Also doing max rep push ups and pull ups, how does this fit into a heavy weight lifting routine? Will you still have energy left to squat, deadlift, press, bench etc?
Quote: (09-05-2011 04:54 PM)JayMillz Wrote:
This guy is pretty big but not sure how much he can bench
I read his book, Blood and Guts. Dorian Yates literally doesn't know how much he can bench. He is ferociously strong and just does his multiple rep sets, I think 400-500 pounds. He said "I'm just not that curious" because he doesn't want to throw on 600 or 700 and risk an injury.
Quote: (09-06-2011 04:20 PM)dk902 Wrote:
Great post Basil, some real good info there.
I'm intrigued about the Armstrong method, pull ups I can do a lot, but I'm more interested in getting really good at wide grip chins, to develop my lat strength. Can this programme be adapted to that?
Also doing max rep push ups and pull ups, how does this fit into a heavy weight lifting routine? Will you still have energy left to squat, deadlift, press, bench etc?
I think you can drop the max effort pushups, or do them on a day when you'll have at least 24 hours before you'll do any pressing. Given that you're already pressing, the aesthetic effect of pushups is probably minimal. They're essential for endurance in missionary though
![[Image: whip.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/new/whip.gif)
. Honestly, I still haven't figured out how to schedule sex and vigorous lifting. I had a girl over Thursday night, and was sore all over the next day.Do the pullups after the squats and presses.
As for wide grip pull ups, sure, just do them more than the others, or even exclusively. If you feel yourself plateauing, start doing the other exercises more, or add another variation, like towel or rope pull-ups.
I was on an SS kick, but I plateaued on all my lifts. I started doing alternative exercises, chiefly weighted dips, incline presses, tricep pushdowns/extensions/close grip bench press and weighted pull ups, and saw myself grow.
Previously, my press maxed at 120 for 3x5. After switching it up, and doing no shoulder work for weeks, and coming back to the press, I've gotten to 130 for 3x5 with relative ease. Having a strong back makes the movement much more solid. Still haven't benched in a long time, but I expect I'll beat my max of 175 for 3x5.
When you say presses, are you referring to military or bench press?
As for doing more than one major compound exercise in a work-out - you're going to affect your performance on ALL exercises performed after the initial compound exercise, no matter how you look at it.
With that in mind, what you decide to hit after you've done your bench, squat or deadlift is a question of priorities. I've been mixing it up - I did the Armstrong program, and made 60% gains in my pull-up max in about 8 weeks - without following it religiously. I had great success with 5x5 3-day splits (hitting the gym six times a week). Now I'm doing HST for some major progression overload. Starting out with 15 reps gives you plenty of time to get the form perfect.
And remember - eat like a monster.
As for doing more than one major compound exercise in a work-out - you're going to affect your performance on ALL exercises performed after the initial compound exercise, no matter how you look at it.
With that in mind, what you decide to hit after you've done your bench, squat or deadlift is a question of priorities. I've been mixing it up - I did the Armstrong program, and made 60% gains in my pull-up max in about 8 weeks - without following it religiously. I had great success with 5x5 3-day splits (hitting the gym six times a week). Now I'm doing HST for some major progression overload. Starting out with 15 reps gives you plenty of time to get the form perfect.
And remember - eat like a monster.
A year from now you'll wish you started today
I want to get like the 2nd guy in this video minus the mini 6 pack. The main things I'm focused on are my arms and upper chest. I could care less about a 6 pack. I'm a skinny guy and have no desire to get huge. My arms are a lot bigger than before I started hitting the weights but I cant get my chest to come in like that. Someone recommended I get a bench (im just using free weights and a bar with weights right now)
the song sucks so mute it
the song sucks so mute it
You mean the skinny guy?
If you want to gain mass (hypertrophy) you want high volume. That means between 2-3 sets, 6-12 reps, each muscle group 3 times a week. There is some evidence that additional sets above the first two offer little gain.
I've had good experiences with HST, although I'm sure there are more "modern" programs out there. I like to stick with what WORKS for me. HST worked for me, at least. The website seems to be down, so check this out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypertrophy...c_Training
You must also accept you'll have genetic limitations. There's an earlier thread by Fisto about what supplements you can take that won't make you bat-shit crazy, but the single most important factor besides consistent overload is diet - nutrients. Eat like a monster. And when you get full, keep going. You'll put on extra fat, but you can shed that relatively quick.
I used to try bulking and getting shredded at the same time - running in the AM/weightlifting in the evening or vice versa depending whether I was lifting heavy, doing HIIT, or just a lot of push-ups. My results were good, but it did take 2-3 hours a day incl. transport/getting cleaned up.
I prefer to "get big" starting August - February, then take 3 months to get in shape, then 3 months "maintenance". Again, this is my personal preference - everyone finds something that works better for them.
So, if you hit your chest with 9-12 sets a week, spread out over 3 workouts, increasing the load each workout, I'd be surprised if you didnt' grow. After 8-10 weeks, it's critical you take a break of 1 week or a little more. Bodybuilding geeks call it SD (Strategic deconditioning). If you look at crossfit, the underlying principle is to always change it up, and shock your body by doing stuff you're NOT used to. The harder the exercise is, the more your body will be forced to adapt. Training the same muscle with different exercises, in different ways. To me, it seems there are decreasing marginal gains for any exercise - the first time you go running, the percentage improvement in your fitness will be greatest, all else equal. If you like pain, you could potentially make every exercise session like the first time, and the gains you get will reflect that.
If you want to gain mass (hypertrophy) you want high volume. That means between 2-3 sets, 6-12 reps, each muscle group 3 times a week. There is some evidence that additional sets above the first two offer little gain.
I've had good experiences with HST, although I'm sure there are more "modern" programs out there. I like to stick with what WORKS for me. HST worked for me, at least. The website seems to be down, so check this out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypertrophy...c_Training
You must also accept you'll have genetic limitations. There's an earlier thread by Fisto about what supplements you can take that won't make you bat-shit crazy, but the single most important factor besides consistent overload is diet - nutrients. Eat like a monster. And when you get full, keep going. You'll put on extra fat, but you can shed that relatively quick.
I used to try bulking and getting shredded at the same time - running in the AM/weightlifting in the evening or vice versa depending whether I was lifting heavy, doing HIIT, or just a lot of push-ups. My results were good, but it did take 2-3 hours a day incl. transport/getting cleaned up.
I prefer to "get big" starting August - February, then take 3 months to get in shape, then 3 months "maintenance". Again, this is my personal preference - everyone finds something that works better for them.
So, if you hit your chest with 9-12 sets a week, spread out over 3 workouts, increasing the load each workout, I'd be surprised if you didnt' grow. After 8-10 weeks, it's critical you take a break of 1 week or a little more. Bodybuilding geeks call it SD (Strategic deconditioning). If you look at crossfit, the underlying principle is to always change it up, and shock your body by doing stuff you're NOT used to. The harder the exercise is, the more your body will be forced to adapt. Training the same muscle with different exercises, in different ways. To me, it seems there are decreasing marginal gains for any exercise - the first time you go running, the percentage improvement in your fitness will be greatest, all else equal. If you like pain, you could potentially make every exercise session like the first time, and the gains you get will reflect that.
A year from now you'll wish you started today
Eljefe - thanks for the reply. I have a family member who's built like a monster and his instructions were "eat a lot, hit the weights 3 or 4 times a week and increase your reps every few weeks". He's the one who told me I need a bench to get my upper chest going.
The skinny guy in the video looks pretty small but I'm only 5'8 and 155-160. It sucks because everything I eat goes straight to my belly so I have to jog to keep it flat.
The skinny guy in the video looks pretty small but I'm only 5'8 and 155-160. It sucks because everything I eat goes straight to my belly so I have to jog to keep it flat.
Bench-press is good. Incline DB press is good, perhaps even better - you can get the dumbells down to your shoulders, while the barbell doesn't go lower than your chest. That will work the chest more than otherwise.
In addition to the above, I really like wide-grip chest dips. Like a regular dip, which works your tris, except you hold the bars beyond shoulder width, and go as far down until you feel it's your shoulders doing most of the work. As much as possible, tuck your torso in and try to suspend your legs behind you. If you can do more than 8 reps, consider adding a weight-belt. I really noticed a difference with this one.
To complement the above, I also do diamond push-ups - if necessary, with extra weight (a plate on my shoulders). You get into a standard push-up position, place your hands on top of each other directly under your chest, thumbs out, like a diamond shape, and execute the push-up. For me, this was a great complement to chest work-out.
When I'm on the road, I grab a couple of chairs, and do incline push-ups (one hand on seat of each chair, lower chest between chairs, push), decline (legs up on a chair) and explosive push-ups - I push off the ground onto the chair (two feet), then one hand, followed by the other, back to starting point - push-off again. When I'm starting out after a break, doing 10 is HARD.
Those were my favorites.
In addition to the above, I really like wide-grip chest dips. Like a regular dip, which works your tris, except you hold the bars beyond shoulder width, and go as far down until you feel it's your shoulders doing most of the work. As much as possible, tuck your torso in and try to suspend your legs behind you. If you can do more than 8 reps, consider adding a weight-belt. I really noticed a difference with this one.
To complement the above, I also do diamond push-ups - if necessary, with extra weight (a plate on my shoulders). You get into a standard push-up position, place your hands on top of each other directly under your chest, thumbs out, like a diamond shape, and execute the push-up. For me, this was a great complement to chest work-out.
When I'm on the road, I grab a couple of chairs, and do incline push-ups (one hand on seat of each chair, lower chest between chairs, push), decline (legs up on a chair) and explosive push-ups - I push off the ground onto the chair (two feet), then one hand, followed by the other, back to starting point - push-off again. When I'm starting out after a break, doing 10 is HARD.
Those were my favorites.
A year from now you'll wish you started today
Quote: (09-12-2011 09:58 AM)mofo Wrote:
Martial arts > Weightlifting
Any more 3 worded great insights or is that it for now? Kudos on the vast range of sources you've cited as well for your assertion.
My guess is you've probably never picked up a weight in your life?
Nonetheless I think a healthy combination of both works great. Fail to see how a 125lb skinny dude who's a black belt in karate is going to make a 200lb man who can squat 400lb quake in his boots - capeesh?
Quote: (09-01-2011 11:58 PM)MHaes Wrote:
It's great you guys are all into weightlifting, but tbh Starting Strength is just that...strength. If you want to be aesthetically pleasing, I would use All-Pros. One is more geared towards powerlifting n00bs, and All pros is more bodybuilding noobs.
What's "All-Pros"?
Brazilian girl has great squat form.
Roosh I seem to remember you talking about Brazilian asses...
damn! those are some powerful legs!
What are your thoughts for bigger guys? As I said earlier my thighs measure in at 25 and my calves are only slightly smaller. I don't think I want to add much to these and because of my weak (ab)aductors I can only squat < 100.
Would it be so wrong to get my squat up to 100 and just maintain that load from now on? I love the leg/ass definition the squats are giving me, but I have the opposite problem of those top heavy, chicken leg guys..
What are your thoughts for bigger guys? As I said earlier my thighs measure in at 25 and my calves are only slightly smaller. I don't think I want to add much to these and because of my weak (ab)aductors I can only squat < 100.
Would it be so wrong to get my squat up to 100 and just maintain that load from now on? I love the leg/ass definition the squats are giving me, but I have the opposite problem of those top heavy, chicken leg guys..
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