[kaotic]

(11-16-2016 03:20 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

Here's the summary of many hours:

More makeouts.

Grabbed her by the pussy and massaged it quite vigorously..she got wet and quite turned on, said I was "torturing her", but when I tried to unbutton her pants or reach up her shirt she kept saying no.

She wants that finger blast and she wants that dick.

Her saying, "torturing me" screams it.

READ: I want you to fuck me so bad but I need you to make me feel like I won't be some slut before I give it up.

You gotta FUCK HER MIND, you have to make her feel even more comfortable.

Her slut defenses were on full alert with her.

Quote:

She wants an exclusive relationship first and "doesn't do what she did in her twenties." Has "her rules".

Exclusive relationship sounds like bullshit and I know you probably don't want that with her.

This doesn't sound like a hard rule, and I've heard girls say that before.

Every girl has her rules, every girl will break them for the right guy.

You seem to be that guy if she's sticking around and she aching for you.

I think the most important question is, do YOU want to spend more time on this ?

I'd say maybe another meet up or 2 to see if it goes anywhere - some females won't give it up regardless.

JUST BE CLEAR WITH YOUR INTENTIONS - need to BS about it. If she doesn't like it, that's her problem.

Quote:

She called me "dominant". Liked the aggressive moves.

Keep shit this way !! That's great to hear !

Quote:

We talked about things. She's actually more of a traditionalist in some beliefs than I first thought. Made out a bit more.

Well she wasn't joking about being that if she said she wants a proper relationship before banging and hasn't banged in multiple meet ups.

The only thing I'm scoffing about is her suttle mention of having slut tendencies from back in the day.

Quote:

After many attempts and denials I was tired out.

Plan to try again next week.

I keep pulling myself to LINUX's MO - keep hanging out with her if you want to and enjoy it, HOWEVER, don't waste your time.


EDIT: GIO beat me to it - he makes alot of the same valid points and some even better strategies.

[Rocha]

Quote:

More makeouts.

Grabbed her by the pussy and massaged it quite vigorously..she got wet and quite turned on, said I was "torturing her", but when I tried to unbutton her pants or reach up her shirt she kept saying no.

Big mistake. That "vigor" and "grabbing by the pussy" does not work on your favor. You are killing her sex drive, satisfying her in a way that is not your cock penetrating her. She probably went to fuck another guy after she left you.

This how you make a woman become truly crazy:

You do not see Valentino fingering or grabbing them by the pussy.

Quote:

She wants an exclusive relationship first and "doesn't do what she did in her twenties." Has "her rules".

Say "yes of course", say whatever the fuck she wants to hear.

Quote:

She called me "dominant". Liked the aggressive moves.

BS. She probably just said that for you to feel good with yourself. Be dominant in bed, not be dominant fingering her.

Quote:

After many attempts and denials I was tired out.

Plan to try again next week.

My best advice is in case things go the same route next time, just be honest with her and say that your practically a virgin and are out of the market for 20 years, some girls have good hearts and this one seems like the kind of lady who can feel obliged to bang a guy in your conditions.

[realologist]

Too add to help comfort her more and make her feel less like a slut.

Ask her.

"Would I have stuck around if it was just about sex? We've been on 6 dates. 6 dates of good fun. Let's keep that fun going but not rush any labels. Why complicate something so simple, so pure, so fun?"

[RexImperator]

Quote:

She probably just said that for you to feel good with yourself. Be dominant in bed, not be dominant fingering her.

Actually, that comment was in reference to me forcing myself on top of her kissing her.

[Rocha]

(11-16-2016 06:01 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

Quote:

She probably just said that for you to feel good with yourself. Be dominant in bed, not be dominant fingering her.

Actually, that comment was in reference to me forcing myself on top of her kissing her.

Lame move.

[Il Bersagliere]

If you legitimately get laid and can prove it, I'll buy gold for anyone of your choosing. You've been working hard, based on what I'm reading. Keep it up.

[RexImperator]

Quote:

Lame move.

Such constructive and helpful criticism...

[Veloce]

(10-20-2016 03:55 PM)TornadoByProxy Wrote:  

Use 'don't fuck up' game.
Don't talk about politics or ex's.
Don't tell her that it's been 12 years.
Don't be needy. Don't ask to kiss her.
Don't talk about a future with her. Don't fall in love. Just be cool.
Don't complement her. You can tell her she looks pretty when you first see her then never comment on her looks again.
Don't stare at her tits all night you fucking pervert.
Don't sit the whole time.
Don't use self deprecating humor. Don't belittle yourself out of nervousness.

Do wear a clean shirt.
Do shine your shoes.
Do shave.

Good luck.

Just now getting to this thread and it has some serious potential.

Just wanted to address one thing here, the bolded part about self deprecating humor. For the sake of argument and game discussion I want to bring up a situation that I feel specifically calls for self deprecating humor.

If you're properly gaming her or maybe even over-gaming her, it's likely you'll get the classic shit-test, "How many girls are you like this with?" etc, that kind of bullshit. "How many girls have you used that line on? How many girls do you take to this bar? How many girls this, How many girls that?"

My first response is always agree and amplify. But a lot of times this gets their hamster spinning so fast it short circuits her attraction script to you.

So I backtrack hard in the other direction. "I'm just kidding. Girls don't like me. I'm ugly and I smell bad." Said with a smirk of course. And much more effective if you're decent looking and dressed well. It's over the top self deprecating humor but I've found this approach completely defuses even the most hardcore shit-testing hamster.

[philosophical_recovery]

(11-16-2016 09:55 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

Quote:

Lame move.

Such constructive and helpful criticism...

I think you're doing fine, Rex.

You've been putting a lot of effort in here to break through hangups that I personally would have a difficult time doing if I were in your circumstances.

Keep it up!

[Rocha]

(11-16-2016 09:55 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

Quote:

Lame move.

Such constructive and helpful criticism...

Yes, it is indeed. It is connected to the first part of my other previous post. She says or hints in a meaningful way that she does not wants to be treated like a slut, and yet you are all over her, forcing and fingering...You are again cockblocking yourself. Seems you want more to keep this thread going than to bang this girl...

Tornadobyproxy gave great advice, the best of all is just to use "do not fuck up" game. She seems into you, otherwise would not give you all this chances. Just make her feel comfortable around your arms, there is already some intimacy, she will give hers next time, just do not fuck up again.

[Rhyme or Reason]

Rex I wanna know ONE THING, AND ONE THING ONLY:

With each consecutive date, have you been getting CLOSER TO THE BANG?

Meaning, the first time you made out

second time you got her to take her top off / suck her tits,ect?

3rd time you fingered her?

Is that how it's been progressing? As in, you've BEEN GETTING CLOSER EACH TIME?

IF THAT'S THE CASE, KEEP GOING. YOU SIMPLY RIDE THAT TRAIN TO ITS DESTINATION!! (to quote suits)

Again, FUCK THE OVERANALYTICAL BULLSHIT EVERYONE SEEMS TO WANT TO BRING INTO THIS SITUATION!!

[Giovonny]

I just spoke with Rex over the phone!

He has a good opportunity here..

They actually have decent chemistry.

--

I gotta run but I'll post more details tmw!

[philosophical_recovery]

(11-16-2016 11:36 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

I just spoke with Rex over the phone!

He has a good opportunity here..

--

I gotta run but I'll post more details tmw!

I am only disappointed because I can't rep Gio again.

[Guitarman]

Why not just say to her ( in the middle of a "steamy make out session").

Just say.

"I want you to be my girlfriend, I'm not seeing anyone else at the moment"

Then seal the deal, get your dick wet and fuck the crap out of her. Just because you're in a relationship, it doesn't really mean long term commitment. Just enjoy her company and getting your willy wet for a while. It's experience with a woman that you need at the moment.

Then after a while ( up to you how long), dump her and get another one. Or better still, when you've had your fill, trick her into dumping you!

But in the mean time, fuck her so much she walks funny the next day. FFS, it's been twenty years, in my part of the UK, the locals have an expression; " fill your boots". Those boots have been empty for far too long, time to fill them.

[realologist]

WHEN not if Rex gets laid we need to do something to commemorate that great moment in RVF history. This, the greatest newbie thread in RVF history.

[Giovonny]

Last night, Rex and I talked about how to move forward from here...

The dates have been going relatively well. The sexual contact has increased with each date!

He felt the wetness of her pussy.. As they said goodbye, she tongue kissed him!

She clearly is interested in dating Rex..

--

But, she wants to be "exclusive"..

Rex wasn't sure how to deal with this..?

Rex doesn't want to rush into a serious relationship.

Rex wants the freedom to talk to other girls and to explore other opportunities..

He wants to fuck her but he doesn't want to get trapped into a "relationship".

We all know that feeling..

--

We clarified Rex's intentions...

WHAT EXACTLY DOES REX WANT? WHAT EXACTLY DOES REX NEED?

Basically, he wants sex with "no strings attached"... But, he is willing to CASUALLY date her -- "fuck buddies"/"activity partners"/drinking buddies"/etc

Some occasional companionship would be nice BUT NOT a serious relationship. Rex needs/wants the freedom to grow, explore, learn, and get better with girls

--

So, how to express this to her in such a way that it comforts her mind and doesn't turn her off..??

We tinkered around with the language..

"What if it was a sexual thing, how would you feel about that?"

"I like hanging with you, we have a lot of fun together, but lets not rush into a serious thing"

"I want to be exclusive, but, I don't think we should rush into a relationship"

"Exclusive, yes. Relationship, no."

"What if we were "friends with benefits"

"lets go for hikes, go for drinks, and enjoy each other but lets not be in a rush to label it"

(these are just quick generic, examples off the top of my head) (we actually came up with better examples last night)

Rex, it you want, feel free to post the phrases and sentences that felt best to you.

Guys, what are some other phrases that you think would be good?

--

Anyways, so we clarified his intentions and paradigm, then, we experimented with the best language to express that paradigm to her.

Of course, all of this needs to be done in such a way that she feels comforted, at ease, and even excited about the potential that exists between her and Rex.

--

We discussed Rex's recent improvement.

His "game" intuition has improved vastly. Just this little bit of practice is awakening his natural sexual instincts.

There was a moment on the phone last night were we both were like -- "woah, shit, Rex is really making progress here".

I could feel it! Rex could feel it!

A little bit of focused effort can go a long way in terms of improvement!

--

That was about it..

It was basically about how to deal with the "last minute resistance" and how to express exactly what Rex wants -- in a way that will not turn her off.

Language is powerful.

--

Rex,

Let us know any questions or concerns that you have..

Otherwise, just enjoy dating this woman.

(Ignore this thread if you are sick of it.) (It's not about this thread, its about you living your best life!)

[Vienna]

There was an ROK article a year back broaching this topic, and how to phrase it when the girl brings it up. It concerns casual relationships but I bet Gio could tweak the heck out of this.

Copied from the article:

Quote:

You: “You seem like a very ‘all or nothing’ kind of girl.”

Her: “Yeah I guess you could say that.”

You: “I used to be like that. I dated a girl for a long time, but since we broke up, I’ve just been living in the “grey-area.”

Her: “What’s that?”

(This next part is KEY.)

You: *Raise your hand at about neck level* “If you think about relationships, and you say up here is a long-term relationship, with full commitment.”

*Put other hand a foot below the top hand* “…and down here is just a one-night stand, where there is no emotional involvement at all. Well, this area between the two…”

*Point to the area between your hands* “…is a grey area full of all sorts of interactions and relationships that two people can have. This can be just as fun or fulfilling as the other two extremes—both people just have to be honest about their expectations.”

Her: (They almost always say something like this) “Wow, I’ve never thought of it that way.”

You: “Yeah, and you can move back and forth in this area as the relationship evolves.”

Her: “I like it.”

You: “Me too. I think it’s perfect for people our age, and in our position.”

Edit: Article http://www.returnofkings.com/58631/how-t...-exclusive

[kaotic]

(11-17-2016 03:03 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

So, how to express this to her in such a way that it comforts her mind and doesn't turn her off..??

We tinkered around with the language..

"What if it was a sexual thing, how would you feel about that?"

"I like hanging with you, we have a lot of fun together, but lets not rush into a serious thing"

"I want to be exclusive, but, I don't think we should rush into a relationship"

"Exclusive, yes. Relationship, no."

"What if we were "friends with benefits"

"lets go for hikes, go for drinks, and enjoy each other but lets not be in a rush to label it"

(these are just quick generic, examples off the top of my head) (we actually came up with better examples last night)

Rex, it you want, feel free to post the phrases and sentences that felt best to you.

Guys, what are some other phrases that you think would be good?

Those bolded ones are my favorites - I've used a hybrid of those.

Some others:

"People tend to over analyze things and not enjoy the moment"

-best used as a bait before any conversation

"I just go with the flow, if it happens, it happens"

-more generalized

"I like being around you and we should definitely see where this goes"

-leading, not untruthful, but doesn't imply relationship

"I'm not one to rush into a relationship, but I'd like to see where this goes"

-similar to above

[Giovonny]

(11-17-2016 03:22 PM)DarianFrey Wrote:  

Quote:

You: “You seem like a very ‘all or nothing’ kind of girl.”

Her: “Yeah I guess you could say that.”

You: “I used to be like that. I dated a girl for a long time, but since we broke up, I’ve just been living in the “grey-area.”

Her: “What’s that?”

(This next part is KEY.)

You: *Raise your hand at about neck level* “If you think about relationships, and you say up here is a long-term relationship, with full commitment.”

*Put other hand a foot below the top hand* “…and down here is just a one-night stand, where there is no emotional involvement at all. Well, this area between the two…”

*Point to the area between your hands* “…is a grey area full of all sorts of interactions and relationships that two people can have. This can be just as fun or fulfilling as the other two extremes—both people just have to be honest about their expectations.”

Her: (They almost always say something like this) “Wow, I’ve never thought of it that way.”

You: “Yeah, and you can move back and forth in this area as the relationship evolves.”

Her: “I like it.”

You: “Me too. I think it’s perfect for people our age, and in our position.”

Edit: Article http://www.returnofkings.com/58631/how-t...-exclusive

DarianFrey,

Thanks for posting that!

That is extremely helpful!

Kaotic

That's great stuff!

Thanks!

[Giovonny]

REX IS NOT THE ONLY ONE!

There are alot of "Rex's" out there.

For the average American guy, over 30, working a 9-5 job, not exceptionally famous or handsome... How the fuck is he gonna consistently bang pretty women?!?!?

It can be hard. Especially, if he is not into heavy partying and night game.

Especially, if he did not get a lot of dating experience growing up.

Especially, if he does not have a niche angle OR is in a bad location.

So many educated seemingly intelligent men who have trouble finding sexual success!

It's almost an epidemic in our country. The sexual marketplace is just like the financial marketplace -- "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer"..

There is hope!

We have the power to change our course if we are willing to work and get help!

Game saves lives!

[Ringo]

I like Kaotic's suggestion.

The article posted by Darian is interesting as well.

The key here is to not compromise yourself or to give up what you are trying to get (sex, fun, companionship). It's a negotiation - she'll give some, and you'll give some (or at least give the impression of doing so). As always, don't try to make her agree to logic, make her "feel" like it makes sense.

I've had this discussion recently with 2 girls. For me, what works is:

"Do you enjoy spending time with me? I enjoy spending time with you. I'm not closed to a relationship, but I think we should let this thing grow naturally instead of push it. People are too preoccupied with what others think, right?". From there. go on a rant, maneuvering into something else or baiting a change of topic, or change subjects directly ("Man, I'm starving. Ever had risotto at XXX?").

Also, Rex seems to be getting more comfortable, so one thing I think he could benefit from is exploring creating the desire in her, rather than being the one to chase (physically). Tease her, provoke her, make her come after you. Build physical tension. This is a good way to overcome LMR.

Ideas:
- When you kiss, pull back slightly, give her a tiny, light bite on the lower lip. Make as if you were going back in and pull back completely. Look into her eyes, smirk. Go do something else for a moment - have a glass of water, look away nonchalantly, etc.

- Create a situation where she has her back to you while she stands in front of a wall or an obstacle - ie: she's washing dishes by the sink or looking at a photograph on the wall. Get behind her, put your hands on her waist, push her against the wall. Smell her hair, breathe into her ear. Pull back very slowly - she'll want to pull you back into her. Again, pull away completely, smirk, laugh, occupy yourself with something else. You should be thinking and exuding "This is fun, I like teasing you". If she slaps you slightly or say you're evil, you're doing it right.

[Stimulus]

I actually think Rex is in a great situation at this time. Sure he's having a huge dry spell but he's gettting some serious help by well respected members who have have proven their worth here and know what they're talking about.

As a plus, from what I'm reading this woman is pretty into him so has the breathing space of making an few small mistakes while making progress with her.

To me all of this sounds like a dream for a guy who is genuinely trying but keeps failing for one reason or another. Great advice by the veterans AND a woman you can trial and error with in order to sharpen your 'game'.

[General Stalin]

This thread has got me fired up. I can't tell you how anxious I have been speed reading through the last few pages of this.

Rex, I am from MA originally and travel to the Boston area somewhat regularly to visit family/friends I would love to meet up and buy you a drink next time I'm in town.

After my last serious relationship I went months without getting my dick wet and fucked a 4/10 to bust the slump. There is nothing wrong with it and I don't regret it. It needs to happen.

This girl wants to fuck you but just doesn't want to feel like a whore who is going to be discarded. Lots of girls have this fear. Simply don't make her feel like a whore! That's easy. Spell it out that you both like spending time with eachother and your both attracted to eachother and sex between two people who enjoy eachother is beautiful. Just sooth the hamster.

The way I would word it, and the way I always word it to girls who pop me such a question, is just say you're not looking for anything in particular right now and where ever it goes is where ever it goes. "I like spending time with you and I think you're sexy so whatever happens, happens." Give her plausible deniability.

If she is really pushing you to define it then you can say what others have said above. I like the "grey area" ROK post that Darian posted above.

I'm glad you aren't giving up on this and this entire thread is a true testament to what this community is about.

[H1N1]

(11-16-2016 09:57 PM)Veloce Wrote:  

(10-20-2016 03:55 PM)TornadoByProxy Wrote:  

Use 'don't fuck up' game.
Don't talk about politics or ex's.
Don't tell her that it's been 12 years.
Don't be needy. Don't ask to kiss her.
Don't talk about a future with her. Don't fall in love. Just be cool.
Don't complement her. You can tell her she looks pretty when you first see her then never comment on her looks again.
Don't stare at her tits all night you fucking pervert.
Don't sit the whole time.
Don't use self deprecating humor. Don't belittle yourself out of nervousness.

Do wear a clean shirt.
Do shine your shoes.
Do shave.

Good luck.

Just now getting to this thread and it has some serious potential.

Just wanted to address one thing here, the bolded part about self deprecating humor. For the sake of argument and game discussion I want to bring up a situation that I feel specifically calls for self deprecating humor.

If you're properly gaming her or maybe even over-gaming her, it's likely you'll get the classic shit-test, "How many girls are you like this with?" etc, that kind of bullshit. "How many girls have you used that line on? How many girls do you take to this bar? How many girls this, How many girls that?"

My first response is always agree and amplify. But a lot of times this gets their hamster spinning so fast it short circuits her attraction script to you.

So I backtrack hard in the other direction. "I'm just kidding. Girls don't like me. I'm ugly and I smell bad." Said with a smirk of course. And much more effective if you're decent looking and dressed well. It's over the top self deprecating humor but I've found this approach completely defuses even the most hardcore shit-testing hamster.

I agree. If you have your shit together, and are unshakably confident, then girls will assume you are a real player. It seems to split; a lot will throw themselves at you anyway, but quite a few seem to take a perverse pleasure in denying you. I've lost track of how many times I have heard, 'You seem like a guy who always gets what he wants, well I'm not going to give it to you'. If there isn't a river around to push them in when they say this, then you need to show a different side, and self-deprecation is a good way of doing it; particularly if you can point to a real flaw and bring it out humourously. You keep the impression of confidence but show them some vulnerability that doesn't come across otherwise. Such a small gesture can be magnified many times in a girls head, particularly if you follow it up by saying something fleetingly sincere with strong eye contact, like that 'not many people see get to see my flaws' - and then change the subject.

Girls like to imagine themselves in your life. If it seems too complete without them, then many will be put off. It depends what kind of guy you are - if you're some struggling artist/penniless badboy, then it's a different matter perhaps. If you're a guy who is well turned out and debonair girls get a glimpse of a life they might otherwise not know, and they put 2 and 2 together pretty quickly in these situations. They realise that any involvement with you suddenly gives them a lot to lose. It's surprising how many girls would rather pass up the opportunity than risk finding themselves wanting.

[AneroidOcean]

(11-17-2016 03:03 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

So, how to express this to her in such a way that it comforts her mind and doesn't turn her off..??

We tinkered around with the language..

"What if it was a sexual thing, how would you feel about that?"

"I like hanging with you, we have a lot of fun together, but lets not rush into a serious thing"

"I want to be exclusive, but, I don't think we should rush into a relationship"

"Exclusive, yes. Relationship, no."

"What if we were "friends with benefits"

"lets go for hikes, go for drinks, and enjoy each other but lets not be in a rush to label it"

(these are just quick generic, examples off the top of my head) (we actually came up with better examples last night)

Rex, it you want, feel free to post the phrases and sentences that felt best to you.

Guys, what are some other phrases that you think would be good?

I don't claim my method is unique, but I don't come across it often. My original post is here, an excerpt is below:

Quote:

Now, obviously you want to be discreet, but at the same time, I have no problem telling a girl if she asks what our situation is. If she asks if we're in a relationship or where I see us going I tell her exactly how it is. I don't tell her I'm fucking girl B and girl C on this day and that day, but I make it clear that while I care for her and enjoy dating her, that I don't want a really involved exclusive relationship. If she can't handle that, then I let her go.

You can use a variation such as "I don't know if I want to be involved in a really serious relationship yet" or something to that effect. The idea is that you don't close the door on having a serious relationship down the line but you don't specifically state you want to be in an exclusive relationship with her.

I haven't worded this very well. I searched my entire blog as well as posts here and had trouble finding a good breakdown. I thought I'd made a good one before but simply can't find it.

My ANGLE on this is thus, and it's all truth:

1. I've jumped into a relationship far too fast before.
2. It didn't turn out well, we both had misconceptions from moving too fast, and I sacrificed too much of myself.
3. I am very sure of what I want in life now, and am selective on whether I get into a relationship again in the future, period.

You have to be able to deliver this with a strong frame as you could come across as a pansy if not (admitting weakness with prior relationship(s).

It's worked well for me. There's really nowhere they can go from there other than to fall into my frame, or eject themselves (rare and it usually doesn't happen before I've banged them for quite some time).

I laughed when I read the rest of that thread I linked, I cover a tip on how to spot-clean snail trails so you don't have to change your sheets every single time you bang a girl in your harem. Entertaining.